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Thread: Cheating at runDisney Races

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    Cheating at runDisney Races

    Cheating at runDisney Races by Lani Teshima

    Lani looks at a problematic issue as we head into Disneyland Half Marathon Weekend.

    Read it here!


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    Great article!
    Although Disney does offer medical deferments, the deadline is quite a while before the races, so if you have a stress fracture in the last month of your training, you're out of luck. Also, they limit the number of deferments, so even if something happened before the race deadline, if too many people were in that boat, you'd be out of luck. (You could not know you're pregnant, or not even be pregnant, and realize you'll be 8+ months at the race! Some people can run half marathons when they're that pregnant, but not everyone!)

    Cathy

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    The cheater I watched cut the course was at the Star Wars Half. There was an out and back in Disney California Adventure, where we could high-five the runners ahead of us, as we ran out of Hollywood Backlot towards Carsland and they ran out of Paradise Pier towards Buena Vista Street. I watched a woman stop and wave to her friend and they crossed to the outgoing side of the course.

    It wasn't a very big cheat, but it made no sense. There were plenty of people behind us - they had plenty of time. Especially on that course. The Star Wars Course is really lovely and a fast course.

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  5. #4

    When I ran Wine and Dine in Florida a few years ago, they had one of the Spectromagic floats out with a ballerina Ostrich and a ballerina Hippo to take pictures with. This photo location was on the way to Animal Kingdom so the rout would take you through and around Animal Kingom, back out, and toward Epcot on the other side of the road. Some woman ahead of my friend and I took a picture with the characters, and rather than rejoin the route ran across the road divider and started in the other direction!

    She cut about 3 miles off of her route and every single person in line was openly shocked that someone would do something so brazen in front such a large group. The best part was that the Characters were completely frozen, probably wondering what the heck just happened!

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  6. #5
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    The section leading to the Wide World of Sports for the WDW Marathon is ripe for cheating. Too bad some people don't know there's a timing mat out there.

    In the year leading up to my 40th birthday, I successfully ran 40 races ending with Ironman Lake Tahoe! Follow me on Facebook!

  7. #6

    I will never understand why people feel the need to cheat. I mean I get that if you have an event, you will usually have cheaters, no matter what it is. I just never understand how people cheat and feel good about it. That isn't an accomplishment to me. I would feel awful, but I guess that is the difference between people. It just doesn't bother some people as it would me.

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  8. #7
    Runner's World did an article on cheating back in June. I'd be interested to learn more about the process runDisney uses to remove people from the results, as stated by some race directors in that article.

  9. #8

    As much as I normally condemn cheating, I can't really condemn racers who resell, or even give, their bib to their friends or family if they're unable to race. I mean, I paid $351.95 to race the Dumbo challenge this weekend. Let's say I break my leg tomorrow. Disney gives me ZERO way to recoup my loss. I can't defer. I can't resell. I can't transfer.

    I can recoup my loss if I purchased $150 tickets to Disneyland and can't go that day. I can recoup my loss if I made a $200 hotel reservation. I can recoup my loss if I made a $50 dinner reservation. But Disney won't accommodate runners who can't make a race that they paid for in the slightest. MANY other races allow bib transfers.

    Would it be against the rules for me to give my bib to a friend if my leg breaks tomorrow? Yes. Is it unethical? I don't think so in the slightest.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bliznik View Post
    As much as I normally condemn cheating, I can't really condemn racers who resell, or even give, their bib to their friends or family if they're unable to race. I mean, I paid $351.95 to race the Dumbo challenge this weekend. Let's say I break my leg tomorrow. Disney gives me ZERO way to recoup my loss. I can't defer. I can't resell. I can't transfer.

    I can recoup my loss if I purchased $150 tickets to Disneyland and can't go that day. I can recoup my loss if I made a $200 hotel reservation. I can recoup my loss if I made a $50 dinner reservation. But Disney won't accommodate runners who can't make a race that they paid for in the slightest. MANY other races allow bib transfers.

    Would it be against the rules for me to give my bib to a friend if my leg breaks tomorrow? Yes. Is it unethical? I don't think so in the slightest.
    That's why I think runDisney should provide race-cancellation insurance through Active.com (again, NO COST to Disney; it's underwritten by a separate company and they don't charge race organizers to turn this feature on in the registration page).

    They should also allow liberal transfer and deferment policies. They could really make a lot of money in the fees, actually. A transfer fee would be low enough to discourage illegal transfers, but enough to cover the cost of the work involved. And they could have firm deadlines, so that the person who the bib is transferred to, could still get their own name printed on the bib, appropriate corral assignment, and get a race shirt in the correct gender/size for that person.

    It's really hard to know what's going to happen 8-9 months before a race, when race registration opens.
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    I like that idea Lani!

    Can't stand cheaters, but feel there should be something available if "life happens"


  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by yellowrosedtxn View Post
    I will never understand why people feel the need to cheat. I mean I get that if you have an event, you will usually have cheaters, no matter what it is. I just never understand how people cheat and feel good about it. That isn't an accomplishment to me. I would feel awful, but I guess that is the difference between people. It just doesn't bother some people as it would me.
    I suspect they (at least the shortcut-takers) just don't take it as seriously as most runners do. They figure they're just saving themselves time and effort, and not impacting anyone else.

    Now, the people who cheat to take first place ought to be drawn and quartered.


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  13. #12
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    This is probably a lot more common than people realize. At Avengers last year I ran a good time and was happy with 1:28 and a third place finish in my age group. I wasn't close to second place as the person in front of me ran a 1:24. Because I run all the Disneyland half marathons I like to check out the competition and try and meet the regulars while waiting in the corrals. After Avengers I checked the photos and saw the second place guy was a handsome gentleman I had not seen before. He looked in decent shape, but not great shape. But, one thing struck me as I looked at the photos. He crossed the finish line twice, once by himself, and a second time with a different shirt on, running with someone. No big deal. I know you aren't supposed to, but I can see that if your S.O. is running behind you. The other odd thing that stood out was that there were no photos of him at the two photos stops at Angel's stadium. This made me curious enough to check his splits. At the 5k mark he was running 7:30/mile and was a couple minutes behind me. He did not register splits at the 10k or 15k mats and finished over four minutes ahead of me. In order for that to happen he would have had to pass me running 6:06/mile (for 10 miles). Up at the front there aren't that many people and I certainly notice getting passed by someone in my age group. A bit more research on Athlinks showed the man was a 1:35-1:40 half marathoner.

    The obvious answer is that he dropped out of the course after exiting the park around mile 4, went and got a coffee or something, and then rejoined the course somewhere before the finish. In the end runDisney did change the results after an investigation. I don't know if the cheater realized he finished in the age group awards, but this one races enough the he should have had a clue.

    Lessons learned:
    --don't assume runners don't cheat at runDisney events;
    --don't assume runDisney will catch this automatically. They won't. I got the impression they do not check at all for missing splits or pictures unless someone complains. I had to spend several weeks providing them with irrefutable evidence before they would even check into it.
    --if you are going to cheat, at least have the decency to not finish top 5 in your age group;
    --runDisney: PLEASE put split mats at every out-and-back location and post monitors if you are going to have a narrow section where runners can easily cut the course.


  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowrosedtxn View Post
    I will never understand why people feel the need to cheat. I mean I get that if you have an event, you will usually have cheaters, no matter what it is. I just never understand how people cheat and feel good about it. That isn't an accomplishment to me. I would feel awful, but I guess that is the difference between people. It just doesn't bother some people as it would me.
    I think it is either accidental or addictive, depending on the person. The cheater in my story also cheated at another local (but large) race, where he ran a 1:21 and took first place in his age group. The course was full of small out-and-backs that would be easy to cut if one wanted. Again, not that a 50-year-old can't run a 1:21, but you don't get there at that age and in one year when your personal best is 1:35.

    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    Runner's World did an article on cheating back in June. I'd be interested to learn more about the process runDisney uses to remove people from the results, as stated by some race directors in that article.
    As I mentioned, from my interactions with TrackShack (oh how I wish Disney would contract with someone else), the company that runs the timing and logistics for runDisney, they do not appear to have any automatic checking. I'm sure if there was an obvious problem in the overall winner they would see that, but for anyone after that, they appear to not want to deal with it unless they have to. When I first pointed out the 1:35 runner ran a 1:21 they said that the time was in the ballpark for someone with his predicted time and they weren't going to do anything. I wish runDisney would take it a bit more seriously as it isn't uncommon and the race loses it's integrity for those of us that like to compete in it. I should clarify that all my interactions and attempts at convincing were with TrackShack, runDisney defers to them and does not get involved.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reep View Post
    I wasn't close to second place as the person in front of me ran a 1:24. Because I run all the Disneyland half marathons I like to check out the competition and try and meet the regulars while waiting in the corrals. After Avengers I checked the photos and saw the second place guy was a handsome gentleman I had not seen before.
    Clarification to protect the innocent: It was the first place (age group) guy who cheated, not the second place guy. The second place guy was about a minute ahead of me, was legit and happily ended up with his proper first place award.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliznik View Post
    As much as I normally condemn cheating, I can't really condemn racers who resell, or even give, their bib to their friends or family if they're unable to race. I mean, I paid $351.95 to race the Dumbo challenge this weekend. Let's say I break my leg tomorrow. Disney gives me ZERO way to recoup my loss. I can't defer. I can't resell. I can't transfer.

    snip

    Would it be against the rules for me to give my bib to a friend if my leg breaks tomorrow? Yes. Is it unethical? I don't think so in the slightest.
    Totally totally agree. I feel like runDisney brings this on by their own policies. I know people who have run with other people's bibs for just this reason. I know people who had emergency surgery days before the race, but outside the medical deferment window. I feel that this is Disney either being greedy, being lazy, or a little of both. I'm sure it would be extra man-hours to deal with deferments in a race this size. But it's a reasonable accommodation that they could make.

    I especially agree when the bib is NOT being sold. Selling bibs, I feel, is completely unnecessary. Gifting a friend or family member with a bib I can't use because I'm ill, another story. The ONLY exception to this would be - Legacy status. I'd have a hard hard time having someone run for me to maintain my legacy status in an event. I would have a really hard time if I had a legacy status and had to lose it for health reasons, but I think it would be unethical to give someone my bib and then claim legacy status.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reep View Post
    Lessons learned:
    --don't assume runners don't cheat at runDisney events;
    --don't assume runDisney will catch this automatically. They won't. I got the impression they do not check at all for missing splits or pictures unless someone complains. I had to spend several weeks providing them with irrefutable evidence before they would even check into it.
    --if you are going to cheat, at least have the decency to not finish top 5 in your age group;
    --runDisney: PLEASE put split mats at every out-and-back location and post monitors if you are going to have a narrow section where runners can easily cut the course.
    The last two are the biggest points, IMO.

    Seriously: Don't win. If you're not wearing your own bib, the easiest way to NOT get caught is to NOT win. And I totally agree on the split mats on the out-and-backs. TOTALLY.

    I'm a rules follower in almost every situation. (See: Giving away a bib above.) If I were swept, I'd take the medal but I wouldn't keep it, I'd give it away to Medals for Mettle. I'm ALL about the bling. I started these because yeah, healthy, blah blah blah, OOOH BLING!!! I earn my bling. I love my bling. But I EARN it. I couldn't wear it if I knew I purposely cheated to get it.

    Some people just don't care. They go out to have a good time, figure they paid their fee and it's all something they're entitled to because they paid for it.

    I don't live like that. I couldn't be proud of myself if I didn't put in the miles and earn the time I claimed. I've had times I wasn't proud of. I've had really slow events where I didn't want to talk about my times. But. I finished without getting swept, I earned my bling. I finished every mile, darn it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    I don't live like that. I couldn't be proud of myself if I didn't put in the miles and earn the time I claimed. I've had times I wasn't proud of. I've had really slow events where I didn't want to talk about my times. But. I finished without getting swept, I earned my bling. I finished every mile, darn it!
    That's what was so weird about my situation. The guy cut the course on a race in the L.A. area and "won" first place, and then used that time to get a low bib number for Disneyland. Then he does the same at Disneyland. Hard to believe both were accidents. So, does he brag about his trophies? What's the point? Is he trying to impress someone? I just don't get the drive behind it.

  18. #17

    Shouldn't they implement MagicBands for the race? Call it RunDisneyBands. Each segment will be tracked for the racer. The computer program will automatically disqualify those that don't follow the route. Pictures will be taken for the racers and automatically compared at the finish line. I bet this will be the future some day.


  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo996 View Post
    Shouldn't they implement MagicBands for the race? Call it RunDisneyBands. Each segment will be tracked for the racer. The computer program will automatically disqualify those that don't follow the route. Pictures will be taken for the racers and automatically compared at the finish line. I bet this will be the future some day.
    There's already a tracking chip on the back of the bib. A separate wristband isn't needed.

  20. #19

    I ran my first Disneyland Half Marathon in 2007. Since then I have completed nine various Disney Half Marathons. Although I've read many conversations and complaints in different online running groups about people cheating at Disney events, I've never seen it. That may be because I'm more concerned with my own experience than with policing others. The real problem at Disney events is not people cheating. The problem is people causing a hazard for other participants. People who stop suddenly to take a photo in the middle of the lane, people who jump in front of other runners to get to a photographer, people who run horizontally across the lane to get to characters on the other side, people who walk four and five abreast without thinking about those trying to get around them, people who are looking at their cell phones instead of looking at what is going on around them...I can go on and on, and sadly, these problems seem to be getting worse and worse as people just blow it off by saying, "Oh, it's just a Disney event." They're causing runDisney to lose a lot of credibility with that attitude.

    I definitely agree with the posters above on the issue around no cancellations or transfers. It would be nothing for Disney to have some flexibility on this. Larger events do it.

    Bottom line is, I feel like Disney causes a lot of their own problems. The rest are caused by the entitled attitude of the participants. Everyone needs a slight attitude adjustment to realize they are part of a larger community at these events.


  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    There's already a tracking chip on the back of the bib. A separate wristband isn't needed.
    Then it's obvious they aren't tracking the racers along the track route.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo996 View Post
    Then it's obvious they aren't tracking the racers along the track route.
    It's clear you don't understand how a running race works. There are only certain points along the course where a runner is tracked. The whole course is not wired to track them. This allows unscrupulous people to cut the course in certain places.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    It's clear you don't understand how a running race works. There are only certain points along the course where a runner is tracked. The whole course is not wired to track them. This allows unscrupulous people to cut the course in certain places.
    Sorry to interrupt your mindless complaining.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo996 View Post
    Sorry to interrupt your mindless complaining.
    Don't poke the moderator

  25. #24
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    Cheating at runDisney Races

    Seen this morning at the 10K:

    1. A 7-year old (min. age for 10K is 10, Half is 14)
    2. Wearing a Dumbo Dare bib (see 1, min age 14)
    3. Texting on a phone in the middle of the course, not paying attention
    4. My husband almost tripped over him because he was so short & hard to see & blocking the course.

    So a cheater and a safety hazard.

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  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    Seen this morning at the 10K:
    ...
    So a cheater and a safety hazard.
    I know I have not run a rD event...yet... but this in general gets me to all get-out.
    I think its wonderful that someone that young wants to run, but there are rules for everyone's safety.
    And Im betting that kid's parent thought it would be totally ok to just let the kid do it because they believe it would be a "victim-less crime."

    It just sets a bad precedence yet with so many people participating, its probably hard to enforce. Im just guessing.
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