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Thread: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

  1. #1

    Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

    Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

    We can talk about the original attractions, the attractions that were added or removed.....

    But really, if you talk to Disney Managment, why do they feel that it is a failure, and not just for DCA, but also for Disneyland Park.....

    And the answer is tickets sold, but not the number of tickets sold......

    Let's go back to December 2000, when DCA was still under construction, and Disneyland tickets cost $43 (adults)... they were $41 in early 2000, but were raised in November...

    Also in November 2000, they started to sell the new 2-park Annual Passes, mainly to those who already had a Disneyland Annual Pass, allowing the upgrading.... a Premium 2 park AP was $100 more than a Disneyland Park only AP...

    But in January 2001 they stopped selling Annual Passes to anyone, due to the expected crowds that would should up at DCA's door.

    The ONLY people who could parkhop were guests staying at one of the 3 owned Disney hotels.

    Almost everybody was expected to buy a Full Price ticket, or a slightly discounted multi-day ticket, but you would have to decide prior to use which park you would visit that day...

    The Execs talking about how they would have to send the DCA overflow over to Disneyland. Go back and find the January 14th, 2001 Los Angeles Times article titled "The Most Jam-Packed Theme Park on Earth?; Attracting visitors won't be a problem for Disney's soon-to-open California Adventure. But coping with the expected hordes may be another matter" written by E. Scott Reckard. The article states that senior Disney officials that there will be days that DCA will have to turn patrons away.

    George Kalogridis, then senior vice president of Disney operations in Anaheim is quoted in the article as saying ""Come early in the day or come later, after the park clears out again, hopefully, with Disneyland right across the esplanade and Downtown Disney right there, we won't have to turn people away from the resort."

    This is also the news article that talked about company projections showing that DCA would get about 7 million visitors a year. Barry Braverman stated that "Disney Imagineers worked backward from the projected attendance level of 7 million a year"

    DCA was supposed to draw full price admission, and get up to 30,000, if not a bit more than that daily in the summer and weekends.... While not the capacity of Disneyland, it was still supposed to bring in a lot of admission dollars....

    What happened, first they started to sell ParkHoppers to the Good Neighbor Hotels, then to anyone, brought back the AP's.... offered a MAJOR discount just 4 months after opening (One Adult and One Kid for just $33, instead of the $76 they wanted when the park opened, that was less than 1/2 the price...)

    Then in the fall, they dropped the price of the 2 park AP's to the DL only price, and eliminated the DL only AP, basically giving DCA for free to AP holders..... Yesterday, a 2-park Premium was still cheaper than what it cost when they went on sell in November of 2000 ($279 vs $299), now with the price increase the Premium AP is $329, or just a $30 increase in about 4 years.

    Then we had all the 2 for one promotions, heck for a 16 month period from January 2003 thru April of 2004, 13 months offered the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for free" to Southern California and Baja California residents...

    Now we have the 5 days for the price of 3 (plus 6 for 4, etc.) ParkHoppers on sale for the last 2 years straight (plus previous times)....

    While a few more folks have come to the DLR, and some have bought an additional day or two in a hotel (one of 3 Disney owned, or at a Good Neighbor location...) BUT...

    If you look at the statistic of...

    "Amount paid per person, per day to enter the park", that dollar amount has gone DOWN, which has hurt BOTH parks.....

    And that is probably the biggest failure of DCA in the eyes of TDA....

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  3. #2

    DCA should have a new attraction where guests are given a baseball bat and given access to a dead horse and allowed to swing away.

    "...I be willin' to share, I be!"

  4. #3

    Not everyone feels it was a failure. Disneyland wasn't all that popular when it first opened. And it takes years to make back the money it takes to spend.


  5. #4

    That doesn't really get to the heart of it. That's like saying someone dies simply because oxygen was not being sent to the brain, but there are plenty of reasons why that happens.
    Why did people not buy tickets?

    Reasons:
    1. Overhype.
    2. Criticisms of park not looked at with a critical eye, and this criticism was being heard some two years before DCA opened.
    3. Internet fanaticism ignored again, even after Light Magic.
    4. DL was still less expensive to many of the guests. You get to the Esplanade and you make a choice, with your one-park AP in hand, or choose to try DCA, after hearing the hype from both sides, and believing that it won't be a whole-day experience.

    Here is a snippet from the archives right here on MP, dated 9/1/1998:

    Q. I was told that the "Bugs" movie from AK is now a part of DCA since no one seems to be able to decide on what is and is NOT going into DCA. Also I heard that the preview center is running late due to more changes that aren't documented yet in concept art?

    A. It looks likely that we'll get the Bugs 3-D movie from Animal Kingdom - it's cheaper to just reproduce that here and the folks involved couldn't get their acts together to agree on anything better. That's current as of 3 weeks ago....
    Also, talked to a DCA construction guy and was surprised to learn there will be no underground tunnels or below ground construction. Cables, conduit, and water lines will be buried traditionally. It's cheap now but will raise costs later if modifications are needed. Considering how precious land is, I was surprised more wasn't built underground.
    Along the same lines, the lagoon show they are planning will probably go in at a later phase – but rather than prepare the site at this point, while everything is easy to access and work on, they are saving the money by not doing it now. Needless to say this will add untold millions to the project if and when they finally decide to go ahead with it.
    And yes there are still serious problems continuing with DCA, and sadly it reminds more and more people within the company of what happened with "Light Magic." Deep down many of the people responsible for it know this is just not that good an idea. But they are figuring if they throw enough money at it, they can fix it, hence the announcements of all the carny stuff being added at the Cast Update earlier this year.

    Keying into this, so you know, it appears that half of the Timon lot will be reclaimed next month. It may be that they are very concerned about the bad word of mouth this new park is generating and they are moving up a few of the phase two elements to more closely open along with phase one. The Tower of Terror rumor is very interesting also, I cannot confirm or deny it.

    You did notice the preview center due this fall [that they wanted open in July] wasn’t supposed to open until next Summer originally right?
    Awaiting the next CM Matt.

  6. #5

    Actually, Disneyland was extremely popular shortly after it opened: the TV show assured that. The problem was that because most Americans weren't ready to travel across the nation to visit a theme park, its first patrons were primarily locals. It didn't take long for Disneyland to become an American Mecca; and although it did cost a lot to build (for the time), investors soon regained their money.

    The problem with DCA is that it's a half-hearted park. Many of the attractions are quite good, but the park lacks enough high-quality rides and atmosphere to qualify for expensive admission. Someone could spend much less on tickets, food, and souveniers at a Six Flags park. Disney characters don't mean much: they're just across the Esplanade in a far superior park! Even Tower of Terror doesn't fix the park too much because locals eventually tire of it, and tourists would rather go to the Disney Studios at WDW and enjoy a full park than go to DCA and enjoy one ride.

    Its other problem is that it's in the same state it's supposed to celebrate; and even tourists would rather see a real California mountain and a real California vineyard. Furthermore, while Disney insists that the park is for tourists and not locals anyway, they continue to market the Disneyland Resort as a local park!

    The magic will return soon. It's only out for lunch.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer
    Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

    I can name that tune in three notes: Because it sucks. Not very analytical, I know, but still true.

  8. #7

    To misquote a fan of a team playing against USC a few weeks ago: "Come on, DCA! Stop sucking!"

    "...I be willin' to share, I be!"

  9. #8

    If you don't like DCA don't go and if you do like it don't listen to the negative and keep going.


  10. #9
    Former Evil Genius and Evil Minion Corwin17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer
    DCA was supposed to draw full price admission, and get up to 30,000, if not a bit more than that daily in the summer and weekends.... While not the capacity of Disneyland, it was still supposed to bring in a lot of admission dollars....

    What happened, first they started to sell ParkHoppers to the Good Neighbor Hotels, then to anyone, brought back the AP's.... offered a MAJOR discount just 4 months after opening (One Adult and One Kid for just $33, instead of the $76 they wanted when the park opened, that was less than 1/2 the price...)
    A good article, Darkbeer, but I think you miss one analytical point: What were the *TRUE* gate attendance numbers? In the 4 months of non-discounted, non-AP selling entry, I seem to recall hearing numbers like ~5000 people per day. (We had the $100 prorated upgrade before opening day, so I believe that number wouldn't be too far off.) And when Disney released their "official" numbers at the end of the year, they claimed 5 million (IIRC) for 2001, which would have averaged 15,000 per day. From what I saw, I believe they were padding.

    My GF and I did 3 preview dates prior to opening day (2 AP previews, and an additional hard-ticket event that had quest map to explore the park). The AP days were packed! I could easily believe to a 30,000 capacity. Why? Because it was Disney, or so we were lead to believe. It was something new for us to experience ... plus the tix were only (what?) $20! Why not try it?

    What I can't believe is that Disney would expect people to pay the same price for an unknown quantity with *HALF* the attractions as the known quantity! (yup, it was ~30 attractions at DCA to DL's 60+)

    After the 1st preview, I was asked by a CM what I thought. I replied "Not bad, but not really Disney. You're not going to get people in there at full price. Do a 1-day park hopper for $60 and let people try it."

    That, to me was their bigest mistake ... not giving their day guests the 'taste' of DCA, but forcing full price down their throat ... it starts people off with negative attitude.

    Not to turn this is into a 'why do you hate DCA' thread ... the 2 biggest turn offs for the park for us returning APers are noise (do they need to re-learn what "BACKGROUND MUSIC" means?!?!) and the smell (how many of you leave the coffee pot on the burner over the weekend just for the smell? yuk!)
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    Personally - I don't think ECA is a failure. It is every bit a poor business decision, followed by a string of several more, but it is not a failure. It is also not a success by the standards originally set for the park. It is a park very close to the edge, but not close enough to throw in the towel.

    IMHO-what kept it from being the success it was intended to be, started right at the inception. "California" Adventure... Since most visitors would be locals who know the real California (unlike Eisner) and are probably like me - tired of off-the-mark representations of "California", there was a conflict before it ever got off paper. Next was the Attractions... A carnival midway, the very thing Walt built Disneyland to get away from, is a central theme. Bad decision. One good coaster and many modified off-the-shelf rides like you would expect to find at ANY OTHER AMUSEMENT PARK. Finally...the poor management AKA Paul Pressler. An Eisner/Pressler combination assured the absolute minimum would be spent on anything. Bottom Line before Quality resulted is a park that is "just as good as" the other well known parks, but far short of the Disneyland cachet. I think Eisner was lucky in the 80's that his ideas were succesful. Looking back, and following the trail to today one thing is very clear. Eisner never understood the "Magic". This one simple thing is evident to everyone - It takes the Disney "Magic" to make a successful Disney park.

    Eisner's California Adventure tries, and more often than not falls short. Does that make it a failure, or just a mediocre park?

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  12. #11

    A mediocre Disney park is a failure.
    And it sucks budget money out of Disneyland by not holding up its end and at least making Return On Invested Capital (ROIC) payments on itself. Hopefully, CM Matt made more a realistic budget concerning DCA revenues. (Step 1 has apparently been implemented.)

    Awaiting the next CM Matt.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sediment
    A mediocre Disney park is a failure.
    And it sucks budget money out of Disneyland by not holding up its end and at least making Return On Invested Capital (ROIC) payments on itself. Hopefully, CM Matt made more a realistic budget concerning DCA revenues. (Step 1 has apparently been implemented.)
    That is an illustration of what I was saying. Making Return On Invested Capital is such a Pressler thing... What is more important is return on invested Magic. CM Matt understands this. It matters not that Geppetto's will lose capital (the reason Pressler had it closed) because the "psychic dollars" in the form of "Magic" by having it there adding to the theme and ambiance are what make it a success. Magic generates dollars and happy return customers. Meeting a ROIC - while good for the bottom line - won't necessarily generate Magic or happy return customers.

    Focusing on the problem - that ECA sucks money from Disneyland and doesn't generate it's share of the returns - does nothing but reinforce what we already know. Get past it and focus on the solutions - fix what doesn't contribute to the generation of "Magic" and the bottom line will follow - or just return it to a parking lot.
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  14. #13
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    personally i wouldnt call DCA a failure. Infact i love the park. Not as much as DL perhaps, but i still enjoy it all the same. I think the atmosphere has a certain something to it that makes it enjoyable and i like the midway theme of paradise pier. Perhapes that didnt put in a whole lot of orignal or even special rides at the park but i have said it before and i will say it again, its a small, new park and you should give it a chance. 5 years for DCA is nothing compared to the 50 years that DL has had to develop, change, discover mistakes, fix the mistakes and advance technologically.

    I will admit that i am not overly impressed with the approach disney took on the park, it seems to me that they simply to tried to put in the park as fast as they could but i still think that the park has potential to grow into something fantastic. I mean put it this way, nearly everyone thought that the animal kingdom at wdw was a bust but look at it now. When you visist WDW you simply have to go. But the thing is, its had a while to grow and mature. Disney could have done something fabulous with DCA and made it more impressive but they chose not to. Whether through budget cuts or the simple lack of ideas, something got skipped and the park didnt turn out the way we all anticipated. But regardless, i think disney has relised their mistake and i think they are willing to take the park into a new perspective and do something about it.

    CM matt seems to get the gist and i think he is taking things more from the perspective of the guests at the park. He has already taken a side with the sub lagoon and by the sounds of it (even though its only through the rumor mill ) he is planning to do something with SSL area as well. I like his approach on things and i am excited for the what might happen in the future.

    I dont expect you all to have the same oppinion as me, i am not even saying this to change your oppinions. I just think that if everyone gave DCA a chance, looked a little deeper inside the park/resort and what it has to offer that they would see alot more. Sure, the park has some problems but we cnat fix those problems but sitting here grumbling about them. If you all are really that concerned, find a way to take your oppinions to the componany. I, personnally, have no problems with the park at the moment all though i have alot of things i could fix, i am comfortable with the park for now

    Thanks for reading,

    Hayley

    "If I could pick any job in the world I would take up office in the Imagineering Building and immerse myself in all of that lunacy and free thinking" -Micheal D. Eisner

  15. #14
    Headless Chicken - Ball & Chain rakkwhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin17
    What I can't believe is that Disney would expect people to pay the same price for an unknown quantity with *HALF* the attractions as the known quantity! (yup, it was ~30 attractions at DCA to DL's 60+)

    That, to me was their bigest mistake ... not giving their day guests the 'taste' of DCA, but forcing full price down their throat ... it starts people off with negative attitude.

    Not to turn this is into a 'why do you hate DCA' thread ... the 2 biggest turn offs for the park for us returning APers are noise (do they need to re-learn what "BACKGROUND MUSIC" means?!?!) and the smell (how many of you leave the coffee pot on the burner over the weekend just for the smell? yuk!)
    ditto... ditto... ditto.

    and... MORE SHADE!!!

    I still go to DCA and I enjoy it, but that's because I have an AP. I would NEVER pay full price. I have discussed this with many of my friends and family and they agree. If Disney started off from the beginning with a less expensive entrance price, and continued to price it accordingly, they would probably not have consumers that are saying they will never go again.

  16. #15
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    I am sorry but I can no longer accept the line "give DCA a chance it will grow, look at how Disneyland was etc."

    Ok lets DO look at how Disneyland grew: in its first five years tons of new attractions were put in at a staggering rate: major new attractions every single year, and sometimes more than one in a year (no I am not going to cite examples I have done that before ad infinitum... if you want to know look it up). And Disneyland was constantly "plussed".

    DCA is on what? Its third year? Fourth? (I have lost count) and it has what I would consider ONE major attraction put in.. MAYBE two if you count all of fliks funfair as one attraction, cause I sure would not count each seperate ride. Why dont I count each ride? Because all of the above attractions at Disneyland, with the exception of a few (such as Matterhorn) were intended for the whole family to ride from the inception. You cannot put in kiddy rides with the capacity for adult seating and call it a family ride; the very core of the design is meant to appeal only to a certain very young age group and not a whole family. Even that ONE major attraction they put in: TOT again splinters the family with the age group thing. Thats the main problem I have overall with DCA the very core of the problem with the park is that it HEAVILY splinters the family according to age group rides which is exactly what Walt disliked about amusement parks in his day. Its ok to offer a few attractions that are more for one age group or another, but to make it so that practically every single attraction does that is a huge mistake. This coupled with the fact that it doesnt even have the normal Disney demographic "setting" for each land (immense amounts of themed details, so many details you cant possibly notice them all even after several times of being there). And counting pathetic things like making tortillas as a major attraction, sure Disneyland had equally pathetic displays as attractions, but they were not played up to be more than they were; they were meant only as a "extra" to help draw off visitors FROM rides/major attractions, not BE major attractions. Its all of these stupid notions that were passed off that add up to a fairly pathetic park experience in my opinion.

    If they were going to hold to the tenet of: lets save money by not opening a "full park" and build on as we go, then they should have opened far less with much more spectaculor outcome. If we only got slightly over half of what Disneysea has to offer, but done just as well as that park I would have been more than satisfied. Heck, I loved MGM just for the theming. As an example; for long winded reasons I will not state, when I went to MGM I was only able to walk around the park, ride TOT once, and eat at the sci fi drive in restaurant. Thats all I could do, but because the theming was so well done in the park, and especially the ride and restaurant, I fully felt I had gotten my moneys worth. I was even impressed by the coca cola vendor over by the Indy show; the theming was so cool I took a picture of it. MGM has that age group splinter as well, but the land theming is there to help make up for that (man the antique cars on sunset blvd were such a awesome touch), so those that CANT ride certain things still have neat themed "lands" to explore. Heck the whole park footprint is in the shape of a mickey head! You cant get much more themed than that!

    I wont even get into the crappy off the shelf carnival rides disguised as unique experiences. There isnt any excuse for that; Disneyland took off the shelf rides and converted them into something new and unique (such as the pretzel track dark rides in fantasyland). The only real saving grace of paradise pier is the wonderwheel copy they put in.

    DCA to me overall has a enormous ammount of flaws that just add up to something that is so non Disney. Its not even any one large thing that was done wrong it was TONS of small things. I do think DCA could be fixed, but its going to take a LOT (major LOT) of money, a lot of time, and a complete restructuring the ideas DCA was built on. I dont really think the board of directors is going to think its worth their time or money to fix something that to them doesnt really appear broken at all, so I think DCA is going to be in "theme park limbo" for many years to come unless something drastic happens.

    I would love to see DCA succeed, and I think it can if given the proper budget, common sense, and plussing of all the theming. Remember that word? "plussing" was a Walt term, meaning he kept ADDING onto existing infrastructure, growing it and building it into a more satisfying experience over the years. Things were not left stagnent, they were constantly added onto through the year, every year. Little touches and details that made things magical for the guest grew a little more every single year. I havnt seen that happening at all with DCA, I am not talking about new attractions, this is an ASIDE from new attractions, I am talking about adding to whats already there and enriching the detail to add to and make for a more beleivable "world". Until that begins to happen, I only see DCA sitting on what laurels it had, and slowly "dying" as a park. Plussing is the very key thing that made Disneyland a "live" growing park and kept people coming back year after year.

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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakkwhite
    and... MORE SHADE!!!
    There was going to be a lot of shade. Beautiful, large, well-engineered shade structures. Sadly, they were cut from the budget during DCA's initial construction.
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  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by splashmtngurl
    CM matt seems to get the gist and i think he is taking things more from the perspective of the guests at the park. He has already taken a side with the sub lagoon and by the sounds of it (even though its only through the rumor mill ) he is planning to do something with SSL area as well. I like his approach on things and i am excited for the what might happen in the future.
    I no Comprendo SSL? I bet its something that if u say it i will be like "o yah" then beat myself with a bat. I love that bat...

  19. #18
    Welcome to PortRoyal Mr.Smythe TimBuk2's Avatar
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    I think you're all missing one very important fact about DCA ~

    I truly believe that DCA is considered a so-called "failure" because of one main reason ~ it was not a dream realized by Walt Elias Disney himself.

    I think the park can still use some improvements and expansions (get rid of the 1/8th original parking lot). I had the DUAL AP since 2001 and went to a preview day. Yes, I like DCA for certain attractions and rides, but it does lack some excitement. But I NEVER expected it to be anything like the original Disneyland, that would be a waste.

    However, if there's any comparison of Anaheim to the property in Florida, I know that was a big part of his dream in 1965-1966, before his untimely death. Walt quickly learned that his measly 600 acres in Anaheim was not near enough, but it was too late. The city was already rapidly expanding. With that in mind, he had the foresight to pick up a slightly larger piece of land in Orange County, Florida (about 27,000 acres).

    I have not been reading any of the WDW threads, but what I've experienced at WDW has been pretty awesome. And as I go from park to park, and resort to resort at WDW, I can clearly see the difference in what Walt dreamed of having in Florida compared to what the "Imagineers" of today have done with DCA.

    Walt NEVER expected to build another park near Disneyland, much less in its own PARKING LOT. I feel that I have a closer attachment to the original park because it carries the "MAGIC" that DCA doesn't really have. And because I've been going to D-Land since about 1962.

    NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING will ever be better than the Genius minds of Walt and his Imagineering team of the "Original Nine Old Men". (I was able to meet Marc Davis in 1997 and that was quite an honor.)

    ps - Darkbeer, I completely understand and appreciate your thoughts and point of views. Great Job !

    How about 3 schillings and we forget the name.

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  20. #19
    Hacker, nonmammaltarian, Warrior Andrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Remus
    I no Comprendo SSL? I bet its something that if u say it i will be like "o yah" then beat myself with a bat. I love that bat...
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  21. #20
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    DCA is what we like to call a Tourist Trap. Locals who know better wouldn't be caught dead paying full price for half a park.

    However, I don't think that the California theme is at fault. If that were the case, why has Knott's been around for so long? I think, in their pre-Dinosaurs era, they are actually a jumping off point for how DCA could have worked. Their Roaring 20s era is how our Paradise Pier could have been, with a dark ride, a thrill ride, a couple more generic rides for opening day, and maybe a Soap Box Racers type ride that is fun for the whole family.

    They also have more solidly Californian themes that people don't necessarily see in their back yards. So much of the Western area has a Living History feel to it. I remember seeing a melodrama at the Bird Cage Theater. That's a unique attraction. And it's the kind of immersive experience Disneyland does so well. Why try to hard to be "hip and edgy," but not go all the way with SFMM rides? Instead, they opened Disney's Recycling Adventure, with pieces of Disney's America, DMGM, AK, and a hodgepodge of other leftovers.

    If DCA is ever to be a successful park, they need to work on being innovative with ride design, or at least some major plussing to existing rides. For example, a Great Movie Ride that is more Disney specific, and maybe uses a better ride car. And they need to work on creating California themes and attractions that thrive on the history and spirit of California without being Golden Dreams cheesy. Take us to missions that don't involve tortilla tours. Take us to Zorro's time. Take us to the Gold Rush and the Barbary Coast period already laid out in the old Discovery Bay plans. Take a hint from Huell Howser and show us a California that even most Californians don't get to see. And a park only Disney can pull off.

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  22. #21

    I would love to see DCA place an indoor "whirlpool" ride like Knott's had years ago. That was my all time favorite ride at Knott's and I want to see it at DCA!!!

    I have a stressful job.
    But I love it.

  23. #22
    Welcome to PortRoyal Mr.Smythe TimBuk2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdfilmcritic
    I would love to see DCA place an indoor "whirlpool" ride like Knott's had years ago. That was my all time favorite ride at Knott's and I want to see it at DCA!!!
    Where at Knott's was this "whirlpool" ride?
    How about 3 schillings and we forget the name.

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  24. #23
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    To merely arrive at the gates of DCA and get back home again, I would spend about $350. You can figure up the hotel and meals, time, general wear-and-tear.

    Would you say DCA is worth that? Much of it I can do a lot closer to home.

    Insert passive aggressive sentence of your choice here.

  25. #24
    Welcome to PortRoyal Mr.Smythe TimBuk2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3894
    To merely arrive at the gates of DCA and get back home again, I would spend about $350. You can figure up the hotel and meals, time, general wear-and-tear.

    Would you say DCA is worth that? Much of it I can do a lot closer to home.
    I would say NO, but if you're already in the area, or going to Disneyland anyway, than I would say YES.

    This month I travelled from KY to CA for a special event at Disneyland before the park opened, but I didn't spend the extra money to go back into either park. (I used to live there and have an AP and go almost every day, so I already knew what it's like)
    How about 3 schillings and we forget the name.

    Welcome to Port Royal, Mr. Smythe!


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  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TimBuk2
    Where at Knott's was this "whirlpool" ride?
    The "whirlpool" ride was in the Boardwalk area near Boomerang. Now the area is a cafe or restaurant I think. The owners torn down and reconstructed a big chunk of that back corner there and rebuilt a few new things, like the Xcellerator ride. I remember they (the "owners") torn down the building of the whirlpool ride and moved the ride to an outdoor location to right about where the Xcellerator queue line is right now. There was another roller coaster there that was theoratically new and was built around the outdoor version of the whirlpool ride. Then there was a huge boo-boo with the new roller coaster and they closed it down and then tore it down, along with the outdoor whirlpool, and built the Xcellerator on the spot. I loved it when the whirlpool was inside it's original building with the underwater mural painted on the walls and the stage lights creating a underwater look and the cool jazz and club like music playing while the ride was in motion. Disneyland needs to do something like that in DCA! Ah, memories!!
    I have a stressful job.
    But I love it.

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