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HBTiggerFan
09-11-2002, 09:30 PM
The title may not get across what I am tryin to do here.

We complain and gripe that DL closes to early, is offering discounts. So I want to compare then vs. now. For sake of arguement, lets go 80s and newer.

then - offered a very nice so. cal discounts in the off season
now - offers so. cal discounts in the off season

then - closed regularly 2 times a week, and really early on weeknights, and earlier on weekends during the off season
now - stays open 365 days a year, closes early on weeknights and earlier during the off season during the off season

then no fireworks in the off season at all
now fireworks during the Christmas season only

then attractions closed for regular maintence
now attractions closed for much needed maintence


I think my point to this list is to really take a look at how things were, and how things are, without griping or going off on a tangent about wxyz. From the looks of my list, we have it pretty good. DL is open every day, we get fireworks during the christmas season, its open past 4p.m. in the off-season.

What can you add to this list?

Kevin Yee
09-12-2002, 04:21 AM
What year in the 1980s? It makes a difference.

DL started year-round operation before the 80s, I thought. I have to look that up.

Weekends in the offseason were much later than now. Saturdays would be open until midnight or 1:00.

True about fireworks.

RStar
09-12-2002, 08:00 AM
Well, Tiggs point is valid if we go back a bit further. And I think it's a good point. While the park may close earlier than it did a decade ago, it is better than the 60s/70s.

So the point is we don't need to complain because it could be worse. If profit continues to slip they could go back to being closed Mon. and Tue. and close at 4:00pm on weekdays. (But I doubt it seriously).

And cancel the holiday fireworks.

Although we could argue that we pay alot more to get in so we should get more for our money.

And we could also say that we are very fortunate to be able to go to Disneyland at all. There are lots of people who never get to go at all in all their life. I know a family of four who have moved here from Texas a year ago and are not making it. They live in a hotel from week to week. They have no way to be able to go, and have never set foot on a Disney property. If they go to DTD, they can't spend any money, so why would they go? Just to see the things they can never do? To have to see the longing in the kids eyes as they gaze at the front gates?

And that isn't even counting those in third world countries that will never be able to travel at all.

And we are complaining that they cut off a few hours at the end of a day. I think that's the point Tiggs is making.

But then we are consumers, and buisness is buisness, right.

MammaSilva
09-12-2002, 08:39 AM
Ok I'll say this first so someone else doesn't go hmmm why didn't she just do that....I didn't do it myself because I really don't know where to look and I am soooo NOT a math person....


but I am curious for any of you 'math major' types out there, can someone do a comparison to the cost of addmission vs the standard 'wage' thru the decades? I mean I hear all the stories from my folks about when gas was .17 cents a gallon, yeah but dad was making 1.00 an hour at the time, now the minimum wage is over 5.00 higher in some states than others and gas is about 1. 50 a gallon... see where I'm going? Yeah the cost to get into Disney is steep, and "back in the day" before one ticket admission you paid a buck or so then bought tickets to each ride...so lets not try to go that far back, just to the point of a gate fee vs average wages? I mean say 50 bucks out loud and damn that is a lot of money but at the same time wasn't it a lot of money back then too? I'd be really curious to see the ratios from then/now?

Kevin Yee
09-12-2002, 09:39 AM
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

What cost $1.00 in 1955 would cost $6.34 in 2001.


What cost $20.00 in 1985 would cost $32.73 in 2001.
(this is about the cost of a one-day ticket in 1985)


If you were to buy exactly the same products in 2001 and 1955,
they would cost you $47.00 and $7.42 respectively.
(in other words, our $47 admission now would have cost $7.42 in 1955).

Minimum wage in 1956: $1.00
Minimum wage in 1985: $3.35 (thus it took more than six hours worked to pay for admission to DL).

Minimum wage in 2002: no idea. $6.25? If so, it takes 7.5 hours of work to pay for admission to DL - pretty big change in 15 years).

MammaSilva
09-12-2002, 09:48 AM
Thanks Kevin!

even being 'relative' Disney was expensive from the start .... but I still love the place :)

roberts1398
09-12-2002, 11:00 AM
We started going annually in either October or January (alternate years) in 1971. DLR was open daily and there were fireworks (can't remember if it was just on the weekends or every night, but for some reason, I seem to recall every night!).

innerSpaceman
09-12-2002, 11:46 AM
Well we may not have it so bad as we generally think in terms of then vs. now, but my big gripe about hours still stands. The Park used to be open on Saturdays in summer till 2am, and that was da bomb! After fireworks, we'd be able to hit practically every E-ticket in the park. Nowadays, with a close 2 hours earlier at midnight, you might as well leave with the masses cause there's barely time to enjoy the park after the pyrotechnics are over.

RStar
09-12-2002, 12:17 PM
That is a good point! I use to love to close out the park at 1:00 (I don't remember a 2:00, perhaps that was before my 1995 APs), and I could get all the e-tickets done in that 12:00-1:00 hour. That was so cool!:cool:

socabch
09-12-2002, 12:19 PM
I think my only complaint after reading this is the hours, also. Now after the fireworks, a huge crowd leaves since there isn't much time left to ride more than 1 or 2 e-ticket rides. The parking lot exits are packed. Even if you stayed for the 10:30 Fantasmic show it's like herds of people leaving at the same time. Bring back the later hours and people will spend more money in the stores. Years ago I used to stay late so I could shop after the fireworks and my family would ride. But now I run for the gate to beat the tram and parking lot crowds.

danyoung
09-12-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by RStar
That is a good point! I use to love to close out the park at 1:00 (I don't remember a 2:00, perhaps that was before my 1995 APs), and I could get all the e-tickets done in that 12:00-1:00 hour. That was so cool!:cool:

As much fun as I'm sure this was, it's pretty evident that this is why the park now closes earlier - it just isn't cost effective to keep the entire park open for 2 or 3 thousand guests.

disguy
09-12-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by danyoung
As much fun as I'm sure this was, it's pretty evident that this is why the park now closes earlier - it just isn't cost effective to keep the entire park open for 2 or 3 thousand guests.

I agree. The park was always empty in the last hour. Even so I think they still have Main St shops open an hour after the park closes or is it 30min?? I would much rather have them shorten the closing time by one hour then shoot the admission price up even more. There was a recent article I belive on MSNBC (wish I had the link) which states that theme parks nation wide have always gone up in price much more then the rate of inflation.

What they should do is during the months of Feb,March when there are so many rehabs and shorter hours with hardly any shows, they should reduce the park admission or offer better discounts. I hate to see people save and plan for a trip at that time and be disapointed.

Ghoulish Delight
09-12-2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by disguy
II hate to see people save and plan for a trip at that time and be disapointed. By going at that time, they receive highly discounted room and travel rates (often less than half of what they would pay at peak time). So they do save quite a bit. Sure, the price for their eventual goal of Disneyland remains high for what is offered, but at least they saved elsewhere. And the other argument is, the value they loose by having a number of attractions closed is gained in the smaller crowds that the off season brings.

innerSpaceman
09-12-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by danyoung
As much fun as I'm sure this was, it's pretty evident that this is why the park now closes earlier - it just isn't cost effective to keep the entire park open for 2 or 3 thousand guests.
Please excuse the angry outburst about to follow...

Being in the entertainment business isn't about purely cost effective. No one's saying they should lose money, but in entertainment, it's about putting on a good show and making your money through that entertaining endeavor. If you just want cost effective business, well then sell shoes or something.

Disney Nick
09-12-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Please excuse the angry outburst about to follow...

Being in the entertainment business isn't about purely cost effective. No one's saying they should lose money, but in entertainment, it's about putting on a good show and making your money through that entertaining endeavor. If you just want cost effective business, well then sell shoes or something.

Here here!

Edit: Just realized I really need to change my status...

HBTiggerFan
09-12-2002, 05:43 PM
Kevin - I thought in the 80s they were still doing the "closed on monday and tuesday" thing. Hummm... For the year I was thinking of when it was a one ticket admission and was still closing on mon. & tues. Is there such a year?


RStar - I like that point, and your right, I am trying to make it, though I didn't realize it when I was starting this post. I just was comparing.

Personally I think they should go back to some of the SOP of the day:
close 1 or 2 days a week
offer a So.Cal discount at the gate, w/o having to get a special ticket at a grocery store.
rehab attractions on a regular schedule
pay their hourly CMs more, to make DL the "place to work" that it once was. Once they have more applicants, they can go back to being choosy about who works where if they are lucky enough to get hired (while still complying with all laws).
keep the park open until 1a.m. during the peak season (even if its on the weekends only)
Opening attractions up at Opening Time.
Replace light bulbs before they burn out
PAINT
Paint!
Paint!
Heres some more ideas on how to get DL back to the "state of then" (the awesome park it was)
rehab attractions on a regular basis - its much cheaper to do it more often and do it right then to let the attractions be run into the ground and have to compleatly pull them out to fix them (ie..carrousel) :rolleyes:
While keeping Disneyland open until 1a.m. during the peak season, close Main St. at 1:30 a.m. instead of 2 a.m. to help offset the costs. (theres a high probablity that people staying till 1 a.m. have done their shopping by then.
If you build it, they will come. If you build true E-ticket attractions that cost major bucks, the people will pay to see them, therefore helping you regain your costs quicker.
Provide quality merchandise. Toys that will withstand the test of time etc...
Require everyone purchasing a ticket to sign a waiver that they are responsible for themselves and them along with their party memebers will not hold Disneyland responsible if they walk into a lightpole, if they fall off the raft to Tom Sawyers Island cause they were sitting on the edge, if they trip and scrape a knee on Tom Sawyers Island or anywhere else or do anything that is plain and simple not the Parks fault. Require the same thing for AP holders.

[Moderator's Note: Edited to fix list VB code. -- Bill]

cemeinke
09-12-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman

If you just want cost effective business, well then sell shoes or something.

I have a friend who's a Economics PhD who would periodically remind us that the best way to reduce our expenses was to shut down the business. With zero expenses, just think of the potential profits ;)

Kevin Yee
09-12-2002, 05:58 PM
We're both right.

Well, OK, actually you're more right that I was: during part of the 80s, DL was still closed on Mon/Tues.

I'm right only in that it wasn't a complete half of the decade. Feb 6, 1985 marked the start of the 7-day workweek at Disneyland.

Not all that long ago!

MonorailMan
09-12-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Kevin Yee
Minimum wage in 2002: no idea.

It's $6.75 :)

HBTiggerFan
09-12-2002, 07:59 PM
CA Minimum Wage is higher than Federal Minimum Wage. Its either $7.00 or $7.25.

[off-topic mini rant] I just looove how employers give their minimum wage raises right before the minimum wage goes up, therefore giving them a raise mentally but not fiscially and they don't really think to ask for another one[/off-topic mini rant]

tinkfreak
09-12-2002, 08:21 PM
Did they really use to close at 4pm!?! That's insanity. I can't remember an earlier close than 6...

Lani
09-12-2002, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
CA Minimum Wage is higher than Federal Minimum Wage. Its either $7.00 or $7.25.
According to the California Department of Industrial Relations (http://www.dir.ca.gov), "Effective January 1, 2002, the California minimum wage increased to $6.75 per hour."

According to the U.S. Department of Labor (http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm), "The federal minimum wage for covered, nonexempt employees is $5.15 per hour."

[off-topic mini rant] I just looove how employers give their minimum wage raises right before the minimum wage goes up, therefore giving them a raise mentally but not fiscially and they don't really think to ask for another one[/off-topic mini rant]Do they? I can't recall that ever happening to me back when I was making minimum wage (that was quite a while ago). Don't get me started on this, though. I am fiscally conservative and I do not believe the minimum wage truly benefits our most impoverished, unskilled workers.

Sailor Butterfly
09-13-2002, 12:44 AM
Then--we got new attractions on a fairly regular basis.
Now--To quote Dr. Evil, "Throw me a freakin' bone here, people!"

danyoung
09-13-2002, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
[BBeing in the entertainment business isn't about purely cost effective. No one's saying they should lose money, but in entertainment, it's about putting on a good show and making your money through that entertaining endeavor. If you just want cost effective business, well then sell shoes or something. [/B]

Unfortunately I feel that the Disney corporate mindset is much closer to shoe sales than it is to entertainment. It's all about squeezing the most dollars out of us dumb guests, as opposed to giving us a great show for our dollar. Everything I've ever read about Walt (& I think I've read almost everything in print) says that his motivation was much more in the direction of the show. Sure, make a buck and keep Roy happy, but the way to do that was to keep the guest happy. Sadly, that's not the current primary motivation.:mad:

HBTiggerFan
09-13-2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Lani
According to the California Department of Industrial Relations (http://www.dir.ca.gov), "Effective January 1, 2002, the California minimum wage increased to $6.75 per hour."

According to the U.S. Department of Labor (http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm), "The federal minimum wage for covered, nonexempt employees is $5.15 per hour."
Do they? I can't recall that ever happening to me back when I was making minimum wage (that was quite a while ago). Don't get me started on this, though. I am fiscally conservative and I do not believe the minimum wage truly benefits our most impoverished, unskilled workers.

Before every minimum wage hike was when I would get my
"raise" which would put me at the minimum wage.

I also remember that when the minimum wage hike took place, so did the prices...to offset the wage increase. So the prices are still the same ratio to wage. :rolleyes: Therefore the hike really did nothign except make checks look larger to people who didn't realize this.

Thanks Lani :) I totally agree with you about the minimum wage not benefiting our most impoverished, unskilled workers, or any worker for that matter.

Quick math:
$6.75 x 40hrs a week = $270.00 x 4 weeks/mo = $1080
$6.75 x 90hrs a week = $607.50 x 4 weeks/mo = $2430
$6.75 x 160hrs a week = $1080.00 x 4weeks/mo = $4320