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CaptainTonyD
03-24-2008, 12:47 PM
I know I am new to these boards, but I've been reading for a while now, lurking in the shadows, as it were...

I am going to make my first visit to Disneyland in April. I would love to include a supper at Club 33 in my plans, but I have no idea how to find anyone that might be able to help me make this happen.

My trip has an added mission, a bittersweet one in that I am going specificallly to scatter my late wife's ashes at DL. She went to DL as a small child, and, together, we made WDW in FL our own "special place." Every Christmas season for ten years, we were there, at least for a weekend... I recently took a portion of her ashes there and scattered them amongst the flowers that make up the smiling Mickey face at the front gate of the MK... her last wishes were to have her remains placed at WDW and DL, so she would be surrounded by The Magic always...

Can anyone point me toward someone that might help me with CLub 33 arrangements?

Jim Dear and Darling
03-24-2008, 12:58 PM
Hi Captain Tony,

Welcome. :) I am very sorry to hear about your wife. I am not a Club 33 Member, but I believe you have to be invited by somebody who is one, and from what I understand, unless you have a good friend who is a member, it is very difficult to find somebody else to help you with a reservation, because then they are putting their own membership on the line for a stranger. :( That is my understanding.

After reading your post, I am wondering how you were able to scatter ashes in the Mickey face without being noticed by security?

Good luck.

~ Peachy

SoCalDisneyLover
03-24-2008, 02:17 PM
The attacks against what you are doing will begin in 5....4....3....2....1....

Malcon10t
03-24-2008, 02:25 PM
Can anyone point me toward someone that might help me with CLub 33 arrangements?Be wary of those who will email you and for $xxx will arrange your reservation, only when you show up, there are no ressies.

Alex S.
03-24-2008, 02:26 PM
Hopefully there will be no attacks for asking what is just an honest newbie question (and I don't mean newbie in any bad way, we're all newbies at something all the time).

CaptainTonyD, you probably aren't going to get any real help, and if you do it won't be publicly. The thing to realize is that when members make reservations for use by other people they are taking on a significant risk (not least of which is financial if the party doesn't show up) if the people are poorly behaved, etc.

Also, if Disney feels you are using your membership inappropriately, they can revoke it.

Plus, once you get a reputation for sharing, it is like winning the lottery, suddenly you have 200 new family members and 4000 new best friends.

adriennek
03-24-2008, 02:29 PM
Adding what Alex said about members can't risk their guests behaving poorly...

I would guess that the member wouldn't risk being associated with a guest spreading ashes either. Spreading ashes without permission would be illegal and when they caught you and associated you with the Club 33 membership, that would be bad news for the person holding the membership.

Adrienne

Barbossa
03-24-2008, 04:32 PM
Be wary of those who will email you and for $xxx will arrange your reservation, only when you show up, there are no ressies.

If a member (or alleged member) says that they've made reservations for you, you can call Club 33 to verify.

Alex S.
03-24-2008, 05:27 PM
And when you do be sure to say "I paid this guy on eBay x-hundred dollars to make this reservation for me. Did I get scammed?"

This way they'll know how important it is to answer the question correctly. Be sure to enunciate clearly when giving the name of the reserving member.


Note: Yes, sarcasm. Though Club 33 would be very keen to know about members selling reservations.

CaptainTonyD
03-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Oh, I expect to be flamed mercilessly for asking... just didn't know how else to make contact with anyone...

There is no real mystery about how I accomplished what I did at WDW... I went to the MK that day, and spent the whole day walking around, remembering and smiling... stayed thru the end of the fireworks show, walked out thru the gate, and sat down on the wall by the flowers... I said my goodbyes, and took the small portion of ashes out of my backpack, and scattered them... two security people saw me, and I braced myself for whatever might happen, but they only nodded to me. One did say, "Have a magical night, sir..." and patted me on the shoulder... other than that, though, I had no problems....

Believe me, I am wary of folks trying to "sell" me a reservation... if those are the only responses I get, I'll be more than satisfied to spend my supper bucks at the Blue Bayou... but, hey, who knows? Not everyone out there is evil... LOL...

Barbossa
03-24-2008, 07:41 PM
There is no real mystery about how I accomplished what I did at WDW... I went to the MK that day, and spent the whole day walking around, remembering and smiling... stayed thru the end of the fireworks show, walked out thru the gate, and sat down on the wall by the flowers... I said my goodbyes, and took the small portion of ashes out of my backpack, and scattered them... two security people saw me, and I braced myself for whatever might happen, but they only nodded to me. One did say, "Have a magical night, sir..." and patted me on the shoulder... other than that, though, I had no problems....

Personally (as apparently was the case with the security guards) I have no problem with anyone scattering a loved one's ashes in a garden on a Disney property. If that's your loved one's wish, then by all means do it.

LOYL2DZNY
03-25-2008, 07:57 AM
You got me in tears over here. Sorry to hear about your wife, but I think it's great what you are trying to do for her. Good luck to you.

Bolivar
03-25-2008, 09:00 AM
Yes, it is illegal to spread ashes at DL because DL is private property and you need permission of the property owners to spread ashes, but... I really don't have any problems with someone spreading ashes in a flowerbed.

If we were talking about into the water of POTC, or in the HM or on another ride, then I take issue with that. In fact I wonder if Disney wouldn't have less problem with people surreptitiously spreading ashes in those places, if they did allow it at designated places. I don't really know if it would help and concede that it could make the problem worse because you know what happens when you give a mouse a cookie, but I tend to think that it might help. My thinking is that Disney could have a process where you had to get permission in advance and a CM escorted you to a designated place, like the flowerbed at the front or even had a list of places to choose from. I could be wrong but I would imagine that most people who currently sneak in to spread ashes at inappropriate places would follow the rules if there was a process for doing it, even if the ashes ended up in a flowerbed near the loved ones favorite ride rather than on it.

Katlovett
03-25-2008, 09:35 AM
Not to belabor the point, but California Health and Safety Code Section 7116 requires that anyone scattering cremated human remains obtain the written permission of the property owner or controlling government agency. Similarly, Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations Section 2.62(b) requires permission prior to scattering cremated human remains. Anyone found guilty of violating these codes are subject to a fine of $500, and/or six months in jail. In addition, California Health and Safety Code Section 7117(c) expressly forbids the scattering of cremated human remains from a bridge or pier, in a lake or stream, or within 500 yards seaward of the ocean shoreline.

This news article http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-trw-disney14nov14 describes an incident last November when Disneyland employees closed down PotC and called the police after seeing a woman scattering ashes into the water there. (That wasn't YOU CaptainTonyD, was it?) On a previous occasion, a group of people were seen scattering ashes in the Haunted Mansion, causing that ride to be shut down as well. Although the woman scattering ashes last November escaped without being arrested, the article makes it clear that Disneyland always says "no" to requests for permission to scatter ashes.

For purposes of comparison, a criminal misdemeanor is the same penalty for, say, shoplifting something valued between $50 and $400 or driving while intoxicated but not causing an accident. I guess it all depends on whether you believe you'll get caught and whether your conscience bothers you. I'm a lawyer, so any criminal conviction would result in my being disciplined - and possibly disbarred - by the California State Bar. Too much at stake to risk it even if committing unlawful acts didn't bother my conscience. IMO, I would expect a Club 33 member to be very reluctant to help you commit a crime on Disneyland property. Every health club, social club, country club, etc. membership agreement I have ever seen (albeit I have not personally seen the Club 33 membership agreement) includes a forfeiture clause in the event of illegal conduct.

Katprint
Who will be visiting Club 33 for the first time this summer
as a guest of a corporate member

Bolivar
03-25-2008, 10:15 AM
Yes, that is my point. I do have an issue with people spreading ashes on rides or in places where I would breath or come in contact with the ashes. Flowerbeds that are not meant to be trod on seem to OK to me. This why I am wondering, and I am just thinking out loud here, if DL wouldn't have less problems with people spreading ashes on rides if they had a process whereby people could spread ashes in appropriate places. I would see the process as requiring permission in advance and then it being done under the supervision of a CM and while the park is closed (just before opening or after closing).

I tend to think that if there was a process for doing it legally, most who now do it illegally and god knows where, would follow the process and do it in more appropriate places.

Like I said, I am just thinking out loud here and see potential problems. First, if it was just a small almost underground thing that most people didn't know about fine, but if it turned into lots and lots of people doing it there would be no way. The marketing problem of DL being a de facto cemetery, the logistics issue with the CMs and escorting people etc.

dznyphreak
03-25-2008, 11:36 AM
I think that if I ever wanted to do this, I'd pick a random creek in Orlando. It would be on Disney property, secluded, wouldn't get in the way, and no one would care.

Personally, I say go ahead and try if you're willing to take the risk. I agree that rides=bad idea. And as for Club 33, it would probably be really difficult to get in regardless. You'd have to have a close friend. Not to mention you still have to pay the huge check!

Katlovett
03-25-2008, 01:45 PM
<snip>First, if it was just a small almost underground thing that most people didn't know about fine, but if it turned into lots and lots of people doing it there would be no way. The marketing problem of DL being a de facto cemetery, the logistics issue with the CMs and escorting people etc.
I can see a HUGE problem with people not wanting to bring their small children to the Disneyland Memorial Cemetary. One of the hot button issues, right after the issue of when/what to tell your children about sex, is when/what to tell your children about death.

Not to mention the fact that people always push the boundaries, and many will think that if it is OK to scatter ashes, then it should be OK to set up little makeshift memorials (like people did for Princess Diana at the Buckingham Palace gates) or it should be OK to bring the bodies of deceased pets and bury them in the flowerbeds, or whatever other bizarre notion.

Katprint
Always only my own opinion

Barbossa
03-25-2008, 02:10 PM
I can see a HUGE problem with people not wanting to bring their small children to the Disneyland Memorial Cemetary.

Unless you actually tell your young children that there are powdered dead people in the Mickey flowerbed, they'll never know. By the time my kids would find out about it (from friends, the web etc.), they'll be old enough to handle it.

Here's a morbid, but interesting idea: Like the Personalized Brick program, Disney should build a mausoleum on the Haunted Mansion grounds where, for an outrageous fee, you can inter your loved ones ashes. I'm not serious, but if Disney actually did this they'd sell out in a week and make millions. :eek:

AVP
03-25-2008, 02:17 PM
Yes, that is my point. I do have an issue with people spreading ashes on rides or in places where I would breath or come in contact with the ashes. Flowerbeds that are not meant to be trod on seem to OK to me. I think the groundskeepers who replant the floral Mickey about 14 times a year would object.

AVP

Toocherie
03-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Here's a morbid, but interesting idea: Like the Personalized Brick program, Disney should build a mausoleum on the Haunted Mansion grounds where, for an outrageous fee, you can inter your loved ones ashes. I'm not serious, but if Disney actually did this they'd sell out in a week and make millions. :eek:

I (jokingly) made this same suggestion somewhere else and was thoroughly excoriated about it. I think Disney is really missing out on a profit center here. . . . and following up on a previous post, you could even do it somewhere outside the parks in Orlando and I'd bet it would still sell . . . .

:D

Toocherie
03-25-2008, 02:20 PM
I think the groundskeepers who replant the floral Mickey about 14 times a year would object.

AVP

Yeah, I did think of that too . . . although I think the health risk of human ashes is probably pretty low there is the "ick" factor.

Barbossa
03-25-2008, 02:25 PM
I (jokingly) made this same suggestion somewhere else and was thoroughly excoriated about it.

Wow, some folks definitely need a sense-of-humor transplant! :p

Rapunzelthorn
03-25-2008, 03:06 PM
I wonder if there is really any health risk with cremated human remains. I mean, they are burned at a really high temperature (I assume)! I think that it's just our perception that it's gross because we know what they are. If I were to do it, I would do it like the OP. I would covertly spread some in a flowerbed or planter. I am sure that they would be absorbed into the soil and become food for the plants thus becoming a part of a living plant (which seems rather poetic). I am not advocating doing this, but I understand why Disneyland holds such a special place in so many people's hearts and why people would be so tempted to do this. When it is not your loved one however, it does seem rather gross. :)

Barbossa
03-25-2008, 03:14 PM
I wonder if there is really any health risk with cremated human remains. I mean, they are burned at a really high temperature (I assume)! I think that it's just our perception that it's gross because we know what they are. If I were to do it, I would do it like the OP. I would covertly spread some in a flowerbed or planter. I am sure that they would be absorbed into the soil and become food for the plants thus becoming a part of a living plant (which seems rather poetic). I am not advocating doing this, but I understand why Disneyland holds such a special place in so many people's hearts and why people would be so tempted to do this. When it is not you loved one however, it does seem rather gross. :)

I was thinking the same thing. I'd be willing to bet that human saliva has many times more harmful microbes in it than a person's cremated remains. There doesn't seem to be the same controversy over spitting in the Mickey garden, though.

adriennek
03-25-2008, 03:14 PM
One thing to consider regarding creamins is that "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" is a bit misleading. They're not just ashy. They're chunky. There are pieces of bone that don't entirely burn to small ash.

Adrienne

Tinkermommy
03-25-2008, 03:40 PM
One thing to consider regarding creamins is that "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" is a bit misleading. They're not just ashy. They're chunky. There are pieces of bone that don't entirely burn to small ash. Adrienne

You're sooo right. My stepfather died Christmas Eve, and was cremated. We're taking his ashes to the Sequoias to be scattered this spring. Park officials said it's okay, as long as we're "private" about it -- and that we remove all the bone pieces first. (So far, no volunteers.)

My aunt scattered her late husband's ashes in the ocean, and she said they had the consistency of sand, not ash. She said the water washed them back and they stuck to her pants. (It's a funny story when my aunt tells it...)

With all due respect, and my sincere condolences on the loss of the op's wife, with just those things in mind, I'd vote "no" on spreading ashes in Disneyland. When you consider how many thousands of people (or more) consider it their "happy place" whether they visit once a week or once a decade, I can't begin to imagine the quantity of human remains that would result if the idea caught on.