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80S ERA
09-09-2002, 09:03 AM
After reading Al's DIG update today, I am disappointed to hear that the Soap Opera Bistro is on the chopping block. It seems like another one of DCA's expensive dining options has bit the dust like the rest (Mondavi, Wolfgang's Avalon Cove).

Although the food was a bit overpriced, I did like the theme and entertainment provided by the "acting" CMs. It was always fun to try to join in on the acts. However, with no AP discount available last time I visited, it was the last time considering the price spent on food, which could be the reason others avoid the place. It only makes sense to close it if no one is dining there...

As mentioned by a previous poster, there is a huge gap between the inexpensive food options (McDonalds, Corn Dog, Award Wienners, etc) available and the expensive dining (Vineyard Room, Napa Rose, Soap Opera). More middle-fared restaurants are needed on par with Plaza Inn, French Market, and Cafe Orleans in order to bridge the gap. I think a DCA version of the Sci-Fi theater would fit in nicely in the Soap Opera Bistro's current location or in the old Hollywood n' Dine location.

blusilva
09-09-2002, 09:58 AM
The Soap Opera Bistro was my favorite restaurant at DCA. Oh well. One less reason why I'd ever have to step foot in the gates.

SweenyTodd
09-09-2002, 10:05 AM
Although I hate to see stuff close in general, I'm not too sorry to see the Bistro go. I think (as usual) Al has missed the point as to why anything (good or bad) happens at DCA. That is if he even had a point other than to dance gleefully over any bad news at DCA.

Soap Opera Bistro is closing for one reason and one reason only. It is was really, really, really expensive and very few people could afford to eat there.

It wasn't because there's anything inherently wrong with its theme or appearance or that it was in the Hollywood Backlot or because DCA is evil. It was because the average person isn't going to spend $24 on an entree. That would be a high-priced meal in any neighborhood, never mind at a theme park where you've already spent a lot of money just getting in.

BTW, if you're looking for good "Middle-Price" faire at DCA, check out the Trattoria. The sandwiches and pastas there are pretty awesome. Some of the best theme park food I've ever had.

oohykitten
09-09-2002, 10:44 AM
Okay so I am sorry that it is the Bistro that is going however I am thrilled. I have written letters to Disney about two "ideas", one was make Hollywood and Dine a Playhouse Disney location, with tv's and maybe even charater dinning. Also the make over SL into the House of Mouse. Sounds silly, but my three year old would love it. I know if and when the change happens I for one will make a trip just to see it.

ksejr1
09-09-2002, 11:29 AM
does anyone know exactly when its closing??

merlinjones
09-09-2002, 12:09 PM
It always seemed to me that the ABC Soap Bistro was a very limited niche market theme for a Disney family amusement park. I mean it's only one genre on one network (excluding the top three rated soaps, which are on other networks), and though millions of homebodys might watch - - what about the rest of the family? Would they be interested?

Seems not.

Maybe this is a sign they are ready to turn SoapNet into the Disney Classics Channel? (Wishful thinking).

MouseWife
09-09-2002, 12:48 PM
I am sorry to see it close.

Where will the breakfast be at the next Soap Opera Weekend?

Don't even think of saying there won't be a S.O.W.!!!

And, I love SoapNet. :mad: It makes me not have to be tied to the t.v. when my one soap is on or having to tape it. And, if I have been out of town during the week I can watch it on Sunday.

I am all for a Disney Classics channel, just not on 347!!!!

:D

hbquikcomjamesl
09-09-2002, 01:26 PM
Hmm. Distressing, if true: SOB was probably the best place to go for a good sit-down meal in the whole park.

As to its being "really, really, really expensive," expensive compared to what?? Expensive compared to the hot turkey sandwiches the French Market stopped serving far too many years ago? Expensive compared to the "gourmet hamburgers" (is that an oxymoron or what?) served at TPG? Expensive compared to the scalding hot, and not terribly palatable, chicken soup I had at H&D? Expensive compared to a hot dog at Award Wieners?

What about compared to Avalon Cove (particularly Wolfgang's Avalon Cove)? What about compared to the Vineyard Room?

Sure, the theming was entirely too narrow. It should have been themed to a variety of television. But it seems to me like the projected replacement has a far narrower target audience.

merlinjones
09-09-2002, 01:33 PM
>>Sure, the theming was entirely too narrow. It should have been themed to a variety of television. But it seems to me like the projected replacement has a far narrower target audience.<<

Here we agree. They should just retheme the restarant to ABC classics people are familiar with (Bewitched, Batman, Happy Days, etc.)?

Probably cost too much for rights, so why not a Disney Classics restaurant with dining settings from Mary Poppins (Jolly Holiday cafe), 20,000 Leagues (Nemo's dining room), etc... ? I'd eat there all the time if they did.

SweenyTodd
09-09-2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
As to its being "really, really, really expensive," expensive compared to what?? Expensive compared to the hot turkey sandwiches the French Market stopped serving far too many years ago? Expensive compared to the "gourmet hamburgers" (is that an oxymoron or what?) served at TPG? Expensive compared to the scalding hot, and not terribly palatable, chicken soup I had at H&D? Expensive compared to a hot dog at Award Wieners?

Well, yes... compared to those. To the best of my knowledge, those aren't $24 entrees. I'm sure they stopped serving those items because they weren't popular or they were just rotated out in a menu change. As for H&D, I'm sure that place closed because of it's terrible location. I always thought there was a decent variety of medium-priced food there.



What about compared to Avalon Cove (particularly Wolfgang's Avalon Cove)? What about compared to the Vineyard Room?

Well, no. Not "compared" to those. But exactly like them. They too were just too darn expensive. Hence, they're gone.



Sure, the theming was entirely too narrow.
[/B]

I'll volley this back at you - compared to what? The theming of Pizza Port? Or to Village Haus (themed around a single movie). Or to Bengal Barbecue?

I think a theme park can sustain one high-end eating. Maybe two. But not three or four.

JeffG
09-09-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by SweenyTodd
I think a theme park can sustain one high-end eating. Maybe two. But not three or four.

How do you account for the 14 high-end restaurants in Epcot?

I think the biggest problem with the high-end restaurants in DCA has been that Disney was ineffective at marketing the park to the type of visitor that is bound to patronize those locations. The largely kid-oriented advertising that has been used for this park (particularly during the first year) will do little to reach those that would be apt to enjoy a restaurant like Soap Opera Bistro, the original Avalon Cove, or the Vineyard Room.

-Jeff

SweenyTodd
09-09-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by JeffG
How do you account for the 14 high-end restaurants in Epcot?


You're absolutely right. Although - I think your next paragraph answers this question.


I think the biggest problem with the high-end restaurants in DCA has been that Disney was ineffective at marketing the park to the type of visitor that is bound to patronize those locations.

I couldn't agree with you more. The marketing for DCA has been dismal from the start. Remember the awful "Are you Mouse Enough?" campaign? Ugh.

If you're going to build a park that might appeal to the "Wolfgang Puck set" (of which I might just be a card-carrying member), then market it as such. Conversely, if you're marketing a "family" park, don't expect the $30 a plate dining establishments to fill up. Epcot works becasue people know what to expect.

I started another thread just today about this very subject. DCA has been a failure of Marketing and Budgeting - not of creativity. Simply put - penny pinch the development budgets and put out-of-touch nitwits in charge of selling it and NO park will be a success.

merlinjones
09-09-2002, 02:30 PM
>>If you're going to build a park that might appeal to the "Wolfgang Puck set" (of which I might just be a card-carrying member), then market it as such. Conversely, if you're marketing a "family" park, don't expect the $30 a plate dining establishments to fill up. Epcot works becasue people know what to expect. <<

It's not just the marketing. I don't think they DID build a park that would appeal to the Wolfgang Puck set. People who hate Disney parks really had nothing more to like at DCA (perhaps less) than the restaurants themselves. Likely a reason Catal works outside the park, while the ones inside did not.

Likewise, the people who would be most likely to go to a half-steam Disney park effort would not spend that kind of money for dinner.

The thing was misconceived from square one - - how could any marketing correct that?


>>I started another thread just today about this very subject. DCA has been a failure of Marketing and Budgeting - not of creativity. "

I disagee. the product itself had no clear target market. It's not for Disney lovers/families, it's not for snobs, it's not for extreme coaster enthusiasts, it's not for kids or teens, it's not attractive enough to just hang out in. Who is for, really? Can't blame the marketing people for not putting across what isn't there (not that they did a good job of selling it anyway).

SweenyTodd
09-09-2002, 02:42 PM
Well, MerlinJones, you and I have been round and round on this before. I'll just reiterate my main point.

Left to their own devices, and the budget of, say something like DisneySea, I really believe that a California-Themed park could have been something special.
No park, no matter how "perfect" the theme, could have survived the lowball budgets of this park. From what I hear (from someone who worked as an art director on the Golden State Recreation Area) , the designers and imagineers were micormanaged and pennypinched quite badly on all facets of development from day one. Simply put, you CAN NOT have non-creatives involved to that extent in the creative process. They need to write the big checks, then get the heck out of the way.

And the lame-o marketing weasels don't help matters either. But of course, it's never their fault. First rule of the entertainment biz: it's always the director or screenwriter's fault, never the marketeers.

merlinjones
09-09-2002, 02:50 PM
>>Left to their own devices, and the budget of, say something like DisneySea, I really believe that a
California-Themed park could have been something special.<<

I agree that the execution is even worse than the theme and that major possibilities were ignored.


>>No park, no matter how "perfect" the theme, could have survived the lowball budgets of this park. From what I hear (from someone who worked as an art director on the Golden State Recreation Area) , the
designers and imagineers were micormanaged and pennypinched quite badly on all facets of development from day one. Simply put, you CAN NOT have non-creatives involved to that extent in the creative process. They need to write the big checks, then get the heck out of the way. <<

I totally agree with everything in that paragraph. This is the reason Disney is failing in all departments.

KarenW2
09-09-2002, 03:38 PM
Hey, Merlinjones,
I love that idea about the restaurant with the different scenes from either classic TV shows or Disney movies! I'd go there, as long as they have a decent menu and decent prices! :D

Even tho we aren't soap fans, it was an interesting idea for a theme, albeit EXTREMELY limited in its scope! I like your ideas much better. We were hoping it would be like the Prime Time Cafe at WDW's MGM, one of our favorites, but sadly it wasn't.

IF, and that's a big IF, Al is correct about them closing forever and becoming yet any piece of kiddie junk, I hope we can get back there to take pictures of the inside of SOB, before it's destroyed!!

mandi2728
09-09-2002, 03:54 PM
So did I miss when they are closing, we were planning on dining there when we went in October!

JeffG
09-09-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by mandi2728
So did I miss when they are closing, we were planning on dining there when we went in October!

The rumor posted in Al's update gave no indication of a closing date, assuming the information was even correct.

To be honest, this particular rumor didn't ring overly true to me, although I certainly have no information to counter it. The scenario that Al described just didn't seem very likely to me.

-Jeff

hbquikcomjamesl
09-09-2002, 04:40 PM
Actually, considering as how it seems to have better prices than the Vineyard Room, and more variety than either the Vineyard Room or Avalon Cove, and also considering as how the food and service are excellent, and it's seemed moderately full both of the times I was there, closing it and turning it into some sort of indoor "tot lot" would be exactly the sort of profound stupidity that hasn't been seen in DCA since the place opened, and exactly the sort of stupidity that plays right into the hands of the DCA-bashers.

Gemini Cricket
09-09-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by KarenW2
Hey, Merlinjones,
I love that idea about the restaurant with the different scenes from either classic TV shows or Disney movies! I'd go there, as long as they have a decent menu and decent prices! :D

I agree. Great idea.

I also think someone should do my idea of a Mos Eisley Cantina Restaurant. You know, with an different alien at each table. Heck, I'd eat there. The higher priced reserve-it-right-away section would have Han Solo and Chewbacca sitting near your table. Completely Animatronic. Your table would have a view of a full sized Millenium Falcon in the window.


They could also do a 50's Prime Time Cafe there like in WDW. That restaurant was pretty amazing with parents as your servers. :)

PXSgeek
09-09-2002, 05:27 PM
i hate the sheer mention of a soap opera restaurant in a disney theme park, they should move it into a dark corner in Downtown D. However im not to pleased with this Playhouse thing...
im not clear is it going to be like a childcare place where kids watch disney channell all day while parents play at disneyland?
i could really care less since the overall theme of CALIFORNIA is dead inside the park exept for the GGR-GCH area

cstephens
09-10-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Gemini Cricket
I also think someone should do my idea of a Mos Eisley Cantina Restaurant.

I've heard that idea bandied around a lot, but they couldn't do it without Lucas' approval, though, of course...

JackSkellington
09-10-2002, 11:19 AM
I too hate to see it go!

It is my favorite place to eat whenever I go to DCA with my friends. I guess those days will be gone now, oh well. So many memories of good times there. I was just remembering some with my friend after we read AL's DIG. Personally I love a nice sit down and eat type restaurant. Expensive or not it ruled and was always worth the price to me! Only wish they had changed the menu a bit every now and then.

Heres to the Soap Opera Bistro and all the great CM's that worked there!




-Jarod



________________________________________________

"I cant believe whats happening to me? My hopes, my dreams, my fantasies!!!"-Jack

hbquikcomjamesl
09-10-2002, 12:36 PM
PXSgeek said:
i hate the sheer mention of a soap opera restaurant in a disney theme park, they should move it into a dark corner in Downtown D.

Two comments:

1. Your capitalization leaves something to be desired, and you have a comma-splice.

2. Your knee-jerk reaction is probably typical of most non-soap-opera-fans, and is the reason why I say the theming is too narrow. It was my initial reaction, until I noticed that the menu (and prices) looked far more palatable to me than those of (Wolfgang's) Avalon Cove, or the Mondavi restaurant.

Indeed, The Vineyard Room remains a tad bit "iffy" to me, and absolutely out of the question for my mother: I'm a teetotaler, and my mother's a reformer.

(And yes, "SweenyTodd," theming a restaurant to a particular [and much-maligned] genre of daytime television, in an area themed around Hollywood, is narrower than theming a pizzeria to science fiction when it's in an area also themed to science fiction, or theming a counter-service fast-food restaurant to a particular Disney animated feature in an area themed to Disney animated features, especially when the theming runs as deep as it does in SOB.)

Personally, I doubt if I'd be able to get through a meal at WDW's "50s Prime Time Cafe" without strangling the help, and I don't think I care to try. Entertaining schtick (even if it unwittingly and unintentionally touches a raw nerve in one case) is one thing; being force-fed something I've never been able to get past my nose is completely different.

roberts1398
09-10-2002, 01:59 PM
OK -- since I'm not entirely sure Al's right on this one either (after all, the ABC Preview Weekend shows Disney's intent to still use DCA as a tool to increase ABC TV's viewership), I offer up my suggestions on how to deal with the dilemma of a CONTINUING Soap Opera Bistro...

First of all, I agree there are entirely too many high-end restaurants in DCA for the number and type of visitors it's attracting. So why not scale SOB down -- doesn't mean it has to become burgers, but there is somewhere in between $5.99 Big Mac Meals and $25 California Cuisine entrees. It could look to a more average $10 -$15 entree (but GOOD food) ... and pack them in.

Next, although I am a 30 yr fan of ABC Soaps, I agree that the theming is probably too narrow for mass appeal. I haven't been here yet, but my understanding is there are 4 separate rooms here ... why not have one room the "Daytime TV" room (with rotating casts for the 4 ABC Soaps), one the ABC Saturday Morning room (or whatever their Sat. a.m. cartoon theme is), one the Drama Room (could rotate between Alias, The Practice, etc.), and one the Classic TV room. All with the same concept (ie: the sets and the acting out the scenes, etc.) of the current version of SOB, just with broader themes. That way, you could still promote ABC programming, but appeal to a wider "audience."