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yohomama212
03-04-2008, 09:18 PM
I've taken the kids on Peter Pan half a dozen times now. Me and the three kids, baby in the sling or wrap on me. Never a problem. Today, it's a problem. The CM boarding us told me that they're only allowed 3 guests per boat. Her reasoning was that if they needed to evacuate the ride they only bring in three ladders and if I needed to take the baby out of the sling there would be more than three people. I told her that we've never had problems before and that since none of my kids were 7 or older I couldn't let them ride alone (I think 7 is that magic age). After going back and forth for a good two minutes or more, she let us ride anyway, but she wasn't happy about it.

Is this something I should expect every time we ride now? Is there a way around this when it's just the four of us? Is there something in particular I should say to speed up the process next time?

Elizabeth

adriennek
03-04-2008, 10:05 PM
That sort of seems like an odd logic. They only have three ladders? So they can't take a child down then climb up a second time to get the next kid while the first kid waits at the bottom of the ladder? Or is that just too easy?


I told her that we've never had problems before and that since none of my kids were 7 or older I couldn't let them ride alone (I think 7 is that magic age).

Technically, there's no more magic age because it's too hard to prove age. Plus, if they see a child older than 7 who a CM judges to be not mature enough to ride alone, they don't have to stick to the "7" rule. The official rule is now "young children".

Adrienne

Drince88
03-05-2008, 05:56 AM
I'd be surprised if the CMs are allowed to carry children down the ladder - so maybe they thought the baby, when taken out of the sling, would need to be able to use her own ladder to get down? I agree, the argument makes no sense!

HisKid
03-05-2008, 06:48 AM
Who would think it is safer to carry a baby down a ladder WITHOUT the sling? The sling holds them nice and tightly snuggled in, while you can use BOTH hands! There is no safer way TO carry a baby down a ladder than a way in which they are secure and you have full range of motion.

PanFan
03-05-2008, 04:29 PM
Here's the official policy (I don't know that City Hall would be the best place to go with that question anyways--ask to speak with a lead at the attraction if you have an issue): Peter Pan is allowed a capacity of three riders including lap sitters. It's an evacuation issue that is set by DOSH, not Disney, and we are required to conform to it. I don't know the reasoning behind it (though a lead might if you ask them), but that's what it is.

Now, the only way to get around the strict "3 riders only" policy is to have a baby in a front harness. The idea is that the person carrying the baby must be able to have both hands free to use to climb down a ladder. The image I was given in training is that if you shake the mom and the baby shakes with her, they count as 1. Slings aren't as stable as a harness and technically shouldn't count in making that 2 person unit count as 1, though some CM's say it's okay since you can go hands-free (I remember I've let you on like that before). If a CM says no, they're going by the strictly official policy of front harnesses only. The policy hasn't changed, but some CM's are stricter about it than others.

There is still a way to ride, though, if they are strict about it and you don't have a harness. The two older kids are allowed to ride together (even though they're under 7) and you would follow with the baby in the next car. We don't usually like to do this, but I was trained that this is acceptable if there is no one else (including an available CM to do a ride-along) to ride with the other kids.

SeansMom
03-06-2008, 08:27 AM
PanFan, that was really interesting. I didn't know a CM could do a ride along if available. Thanks for sharing!

yohomama212
03-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the info! I guess the part that confused me the most was that she wasn't offering a solution. She wasn't telling us to get off and she wasn't telling me the big kids could ride alone, nothing. If she had offered something, I would have gone with it, but she just kept saying she couldn't let us ride like that. There seemed to be a lot of "extra" CMs around that day, maybe training, and that would have been a great training experience, IMO.

In my experience (and I can find the sources if you want them), a properly used sling can be just as stable as a harness (I'm assuming you're meaning a Baby Bjorn or something similar to that). I know that's exactly where I prefer to have my baby when we're out and about, especially in crowds! But that's a conversation for another day.

Elizabeth

tinksmom
03-06-2008, 05:25 PM
However, I would still follow the cast member's instructions, and if they tell you you can't all get into the same vehicle, make plans to not ride or take the argument to another place. There is nothing worse than a guest arguing with a cast member and holding up the line.

Actually, I can think of many worse things. . .famine, war, starvation, disease, death. . .

Malcon10t
03-06-2008, 05:47 PM
However, I would still follow the cast member's instructions, and if they tell you you can't all get into the same vehicle, make plans to not ride or take the argument to another place. There is nothing worse than a guest arguing with a cast member and holding up the line.
It sounds like the CM wasn't giving any instructions. If I remember correctly, the loading spot doesn't have an easy exit (you'd have to walk down the CM walkway to the exit, so I would think the CM would have started escorting her if she was saying she couldn't ride.) I don't think Yohomama was holding up the line, she was simply asking what did the CM want her to do.

(This is more to PanFan) in the situation of harness v. wrap, does the SOP specify how the baby is to be attached "securely"?

HobbitFeet
03-06-2008, 07:03 PM
In my experience (and I can find the sources if you want them), a properly used sling can be just as stable as a harness (I'm assuming you're meaning a Baby Bjorn or something similar to that).

I definitely agree. A sling, moby, mei tai are all more secure than something relying on plastic clips. I've seen recalls for the bjorn type baby carriers b/c the clips fail, but never for a hotsling or a moby!


That must have been so frustrating with the person just stating things without telling you what to do.

kelli1rose
03-06-2008, 10:32 PM
While we were waiting in line to ride Peter Pan today, the CM made an announcement that only three could ride in a boat, and that three included babies. I guess they are being stricter on the policy.

yohomama212
03-07-2008, 08:08 AM
While we were waiting in line to ride Peter Pan today, the CM made an announcement that only three could ride in a boat, and that three included babies. I guess they are being stricter on the policy.

Okay, so with that in mind how can my kids ride the attraction when it's just the four of us? Do I need to request that a CM ride with the big kids? Do I just assume that my kids will be alright riding on their own and that the CM will let me load them in one boat and me in the next? Do I skip it altogether and limit our ride options even more?

Elizabeth

Malcon10t
03-07-2008, 10:16 AM
Okay, so with that in mind how can my kids ride the attraction when it's just the four of us? Do I need to request that a CM ride with the big kids? Do I just assume that my kids will be alright riding on their own and that the CM will let me load them in one boat and me in the next? Do I skip it altogether and limit our ride options even more?

ElizabethWhen I have heard that announcements, it has applied to babies on laps, and not those strapped to mama. Just ask the CM at the gate. I definitely wouldn't skip it.

Crazy4DL
03-07-2008, 10:31 AM
I don't know what you can do but it seems crazy to me that Disney would let your two older ones - aren't they about 3 and 5? ride PP alone. Even if yours are the type of kids to sit still throughout the ride I can't see all 3 and 5 year olds doing that. imho, that seems much less safe than you having to climb down a ladder with your baby . . .of course, I don't make the rules. :p

yohomama212
03-07-2008, 10:52 AM
When I have heard that announcements, it has applied to babies on laps, and not those strapped to mama. Just ask the CM at the gate. I definitely wouldn't skip it.

Thanks!


I don't know what you can do but it seems crazy to me that Disney would let your two older ones - aren't they about 3 and 5? ride PP alone. Even if yours are the type of kids to sit still throughout the ride I can't see all 3 and 5 year olds doing that. imho, that seems much less safe than you having to climb down a ladder with your baby . . .of course, I don't make the rules. :p

2.5 and 5 and Gbear still gets a little worked up over the "drops" while Vman tries to dive into Neverland! They're nuts about the ride and if that's all there was to do at DL they'd never get bored!

How many people would kill me for asking if they could slow down the ride a bit though! It's like watching the movie in fast-forward while the characters are on speed!

Elizabeth

Malcon10t
03-07-2008, 11:05 AM
My concern with under 6 or so riding alone isn't the ride. Its getting OFF the ride. While MDM at 6 was EXTREMELY responsible, it would have been a lot of responsibility for her to have managed Escape Artist when they exited and had to wait, even if it was only 1 car.

HisKid
03-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Amen, Malcon! There are so many things that could cause a little guy to do the wrong thing when they are supposed to be exiting! The could get spooked or frustrated, upset that they have to leave when they are having fun, afraid to be without you (you were standing there when they were put on, after all), confused, unsure where to go, afraid of all of the strangers, or any other manner of things that would cause them to do the "wrong" thing.

Malcon10t
03-07-2008, 11:39 AM
In my son's case, fear wouldn't enter into it. He would see 1. a character he loved, 2. the carousel, 3. the wizard, 4. a butterfly, 5. a trash pick up person, etc... and off he would go to chase/watch it.

Crazy4DL
03-07-2008, 01:50 PM
My concern with under 6 or so riding alone isn't the ride. Its getting OFF the ride.

Oh for sure, that too. . . they are just too little and easily distracted to always do exactly what they are told at that age. They are children and live in the moment - part of the magic of childhood.

PanFan
03-07-2008, 08:23 PM
(This is more to PanFan) in the situation of harness v. wrap, does the SOP specify how the baby is to be attached "securely"?

I looked at the OG (operating guide) for Peter Pan today and here's all that I found on the matter:
--If a child isn't old enough to ride alone (7), they need to be loaded into the same or adjacent vehicle as the accompanying guest. In other words, if there are more than two children under 7 with one adult, they can be loaded into the boat before or after the adult. This isn't in the OG, but if the parent isn't comfortable with that, they can request a CM to ride with their children, but there's no telling how long you will be waiting at the station for an available CM to show up.
--The specific wording regarding harnesses vs. slings is that if they are attached in a "front-of-body infant carrier" they may ride. That's all it had to say on the issue. It didn't say that they then counted as one person, but that is the case.

Then I asked a trainer and a lead about slings in particular. The trainer said that the child in the sling and the attached parent counted as one person and could be loaded with two others. The lead said that slings don't count as one person, that the front-of-body carrier has to be attached at four points (hence the thinking that they are more stable than a sling). When I said I was given conflicting information she recommended asking the core trainer, which I'll do the next time I see her.

PanFan
03-08-2008, 07:10 PM
Update:

I spoke with two others today, one of them a FL manager, and both confirmed that a sling does NOT make the baby and person they're attached to count as one person. If the adult were to swing around, the baby in the sling would fly up, not be attached securely to the front as they would in a 4-point harness. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's the official policy from management. The same would apply on Dumbo as well as in the caboose or open air sleighs on Casey Jr. Everywhere else in FL doesn't include lap sitters or babies in their capacities.

yohomama212
03-09-2008, 04:04 PM
Update:

I spoke with two others today, one of them a FL manager, and both confirmed that a sling does NOT make the baby and person they're attached to count as one person. If the adult were to swing around, the baby in the sling would fly up, not be attached securely to the front as they would in a 4-point harness. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's the official policy from management. The same would apply on Dumbo as well as in the caboose or open air sleighs on Casey Jr. Everywhere else in FL doesn't include lap sitters or babies in their capacities.

This really upsets me, they're spreading some very false information and I'd like to know who to contact to get the correct information out there. I've done just about everything a mom does in a day while wearing my baby and I've never had her fly anywhere! I'm going to be contacting other baby-wearing moms and letting them know what's being said, we will get accurate information out to the public.

Elizabeth

PanFan
03-10-2008, 09:09 AM
By all means! Speak to a lead or manager in FL so they can possibly explain better than I what the reasoning is behind it and if you still have issues, file a formal complaint at City Hall or on the DL website. I don't have a baby and have never used a sling, so I really can't speak from experience one way or the other, but that's the info I collected.

adriennek
03-10-2008, 11:30 AM
This really upsets me, they're spreading some very false information and I'd like to know who to contact to get the correct information out there. I've done just about everything a mom does in a day while wearing my baby and I've never had her fly anywhere! I'm going to be contacting other baby-wearing moms and letting them know what's being said, we will get accurate information out to the public.

Keep in mind that it isn't the front line CMs or even the leads making these decisions - it's the lawyers. I can see why a four-point harness would be assumed to be much sturdier than a sling. But without statistics and "test" evidence, it's probably going to be harder to convince the lawyers.

Adrienne

Bolivar
03-10-2008, 11:42 AM
If you truly want to do the work to get this changed, I would contact the manufacturers of slings and find out if they have any statistical or test data regarding the safety of slings. Then contact Disney armed with this information. Or, better yet, get the sling manufacturers on the case and get them to contact Disney -- assuming you could interest them in the issue.