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View Full Version : The DCA "Devil's Advocate" Thread



Iceman
08-29-2002, 08:14 AM
As most of you know, I am generally a fan of DCA. I thought it would be fun, however, to start a thread where each of us argues for the OTHER point of view. If nothing else, it might help us understand each other's viewpoints a little better and it might just be humorous. So I will start by listing the things that I personally don't like about the second gate. Basically, if Universal had opened California Adventure, these would be my complaints about it:

- The entrance plaza is too plain. Those big letters are an eyesore, and the park's icon (Grizzly Peak) is hidden in the back of the park rather than up front where you can see it clearly upon entry. At the very least they should have built the planned fountain in the entry plaza.

- The mix of restaurants is all wrong. I wish Mondavi and Puck had hung around to maintain the upper-scale experiences, and they clearly need more counter service or even buffeteria-style eateries.

- Soarin' Over California is a half-assed attempt at a new simulator ride. The movement is too tame to be compelling, and the cut-transitions between scenes are unforgivable. The rest of the area around the ride, themed as an old Air Force base, is neat but wasted without additional things to do.

- Hollywood Pictures Backlot has nothing about Hollywood pictures. The animation building is beautiful and fun and SuperStar Limo is an amusing little ride, but where are all the attractions about the proud heritage of Disney's movie and TV productions?

- The farm is a waste of space. I liked the tortilla and bread-making tours (and especially the free samples), but other than that this area is dead. FFF may be an improvement, but only for families. Farming may not be a thrill-a-minute enterprise, but they could have put in at least one compelling attraction that educates how California is the biggest agricultural state in the nation.

- Grizzly River Rapids is boring. It is really no better than Kali River Rapids at DAK, and certainly not a quantum leap in technology or theming over countless other river raft rides around the country.

- Paradise Pier is too tacky. They recreated the look and feel of an old-time carnival, but how hard is that? Maybe the carnival games should be free instead of blatant rip-off money makers. Maybe the rides themselves should be based on carnival attractions but then done up with the usual Disney focus on quality and taking the experience to the next level. Maybe they need more streetmosphere performers or something. The rides are fun but too ordinary for a Disney park.

- The San Francisco area is a joke. Empty storefronts? Please tell me there is a major E-ticket planned for this area next. With so much to do and see in the Bay Area, I find it hard to believe they couldn't come up with SOMETHING.

Cadaverous Pallor
08-29-2002, 08:19 AM
Wait, so you DON'T believe these things, or DO you? You confused me. :confused:

merlinjones
08-29-2002, 08:22 AM
I agree with almost everything you said, so why argue!

:)

Ghoulish Delight
08-29-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
Wait, so you DON'T believe these things, or DO you? You confused me. :confused: He does believe these things, but his overall opinion of the park is good. He's basically saying, "I'll give the detractors these points, but I still like the place."

mj, you missed the point. The point is, if you're general opinion is bad, if you tend to detract from the park on the boards, this is a place to list those bits that you DO like (you can't hate EVERYTHING).

Of course, I'm always so darn middle of the road, I can't have an "opposite" view. I enjoy myself there, and have listed many times the things I like, but I also think there are major flaws, which I have listed many times.

Iceman
08-29-2002, 08:41 AM
Thank you, GD... at least YOU understand what I'm getting at! :D

merlinjones
08-29-2002, 08:48 AM
>>mj, you missed the point. The point is, if you're general opinion is bad, if you tend to detract from the park on the boards, this is a place to list those bits that you DO like (you can't hate EVERYTHING).<<

Here goes: DCA highlights:

Soarin over California is fun in a CircleVisionDeluxe sort of way.

The Animation Pavillion is well designed and enjoyable, particularly the lovely lobby and the karaoke sync feature.

The Walt Disney film One Man's Dream is a treat with the exception of a hypocritical Eisner hosting (should have been Roy or Julie Andrews) and some of the editorial decisions on what to include/not include about his life. But the film itself is really enjoyable, especially use of the Wonderful World of Color song.

Blast! is a great, creative, inventive show, with some enjoyably sexy performers. I hope it stays indefinitely, as Disney's internal divisions can't match this level of quality.

DCA is free with my AP or I would never have seen these wonders.

Iceman
08-29-2002, 09:09 AM
Continuing in the spirit of the thread, I'm going to argue with you, mj...

Blast! has already been canceled. Shows of this quality are essential in a theme park as they suck up large quantities of people for fairly long amounts of time. In addition, although people don't usually go to a park specifically for the shows, they often use them in word-of-mouth marketing to their friends.

As for the animation pavilion, why is this the only well-themed pre-show area in the park? It is also the only retread attraction that is actually an improvement over the original.

merlinjones
08-29-2002, 09:28 AM
>>Continuing in the spirit of the thread, I'm going to argue with you, mj...

>>Blast! has already been canceled. Shows of this quality are essential in a theme park as they suck up large quantities of people for fairly long amounts of time. In addition, although people don't usually go to a park specifically for the shows, they often use them in word-of-mouth marketing to their friends.<<

Disney's internal entertainment division is too mired in politics to create decent entertainment. They should look for more outside talent like Blast!

>>As for the animation pavilion, why is this the only well-themed pre-show area in the park? It is also the only retread attraction that is actually an improvement over the original.<<

Real Imagineers and the Feature Animation department, always at the heart of the Disney taste and execution core - - were responsible for this attraction and not the others. This is what the whole park should be like - - but Anti-Walt fired them instead.

JeffG
08-29-2002, 09:54 AM
In the spirit of Iceman's idea, here are some of the key problems that I have with DCA:

- The park really needs at least one, large-scale, slow-moving dark ride featuring lots of animatronics. My recommendation would have been to have covered the same material as "Golden Dreams" in this form. This type of attraction is still fairly synonymous with Disney theme parks and I think it is the most noticible ommission in DCA's design. In fact, I think simply including one attraction of that type would have wiped out a large percentage of the complaints from some of the more ardent traditionalists.

- Paradise Pier badly needs a dark ride. Something on the scale of the Fantasyland rides would be sufficient. Ideally, they should have done a very Disney take on something like the classic fun-house/spook-house (although this might be a bit too close to Haunted Mansion) or possibly the tunnel of love. This would have filled in a gap in the theming (most old-time parks had these) and would have also given the area and the park another family-oriented ride.

- While it is an interesting failure, I simply don't think that Superstar Limo works. The ride probably would be a lot better had they dropped the celebrities and more carefully focused it as a tongue-in-cheek tour of Hollywood landmarks and stereotypes.

- The Hyperion Theater really needs a lobby and escalators to the upper levels. What they have now is very nice, but it seems unfinished.

- The lift hill on Grizzly River Run should have been covered, both to block the outside views and to allow for some special effects and other theming during the long lift.

- The reduction in park hours and the closing of restaurants has been excessive and may actually be contributing to the park's attendance problems. Even if this results in them operating as a loss, they should look at this as an investment in the park's future by helping to make the experiences of those that are visiting positive ones. These attempts to cut costs are apt to hurt both repeat business and word-of-mouth.


-Jeff

innerSpaceman
08-29-2002, 11:07 AM
Ok, here goes:

InnerSpaceman's Glowing Praise of Disney's California Adventure Park!

That Grizzly River Mountain really gives visitors the feel of the high Sierra! The cascades, waterfalls and rockwork are all first rate and impart the look the real thing.

The Paradise Pier area looks beautifully evocative at night from across the picturesque bay. One need come no closer than this to experience the best of this amusement park themed area of the theme park.

The lobby of the Animation Building is a marvelous and stunning tribute to Disney animation.

Soarin' Over California is a wonderful travelogue film of the Golden State presented in an interesting fashion.

The wave fountain near the "center" of the park is entrancing and delightful.

The Power of Blast! show and the Eureka parade both provide exuberant entainment by an energetic cast of characters - hopefully these will both play for a long time (editors note from the real innerSpaceman: both have been cancelled).

All in all, plenty of things to enjoy for a full Two Hours! It would take at least 2 months to travel and enjoy the real California. The experience is narrowed down for you so that you can manage it all in a teeny tiny fraction of that time. Enjoy Disney's California Adventure!!

Ghoulish Delight
08-29-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
The wave fountain near the "center" of the park is entrancing and delightful.Excellent point. That's one thing they definitely got right with the DTD/DCA additions. The fountains are fantastic. DCA's wave fountain being the centerpiece of course. But I thuroughly enjot the 3 fountains in DTD. The in front of La Brea is great. I don't think I've seen the same pattern twice from that column of water. The one slightly further down, in front of WoD is perfect. Small, quiet, and unassuming, and very beautiful. And, of course, you've got to love the water cannon in front of HoB. It's taken all of my will power not to come in there with a soccer ball and watch it get launched!

Iceman
08-29-2002, 11:29 AM
Okay, innerspace, let me counter your points.

Why is GRR the only area of the park that really seems to transport you to another part of California? Couldn't they have done this with San Francisco, the desert/base area, the farm, even the pier? Theming is choppy and inconsistent. Although I hate to open this can of worms, at TDS there is no unintentional intrusion of one land's visuals or sounds into another. The sensory "tickles" are perfect, unlike at DCA where you often don't know you've stepped into a new area.

I agree that PP looks great at night, but it looks, well, ordinary during the day. Why didn't the Imagineers consider how every area of the park would look during different times of the day to ensure they would all be visually appealing both at day and night?

I can't argue about the lobby of Animation.

The wave fountain is cool, but again I submit that they should have put something interesting out in the entrance plaza.

More high-quality shows would extend the length of time people spend in the park, improving profits and word-of-mouth. As much as I hate the retreads, they could have brought SuperStar Studio from Florida (which hasn't played there for years anyway) and plopped it right in the Backlot.

innerSpaceman
08-29-2002, 12:20 PM
Ice,

I've said about all I can in praise of that park. Why can't other areas be as transportive and evocative as the Grizzy Mtn? Why, indeed? California is chock full of amazing environments that deserve to be treated in the same excellent manner as they've handled the high Sierra.

This is against the theme of this thread, but that Golden Gate Bridge is wasted at the entrance to the park when they could have used it as a centerpiece for an outstanding tribute to San Francisco, one of the most beautiful cities on the planet.

Instead of Yosemite Valley being featured soley in a travelogue film, why not give this absolute wonder of the world the Matterhorn treatment and create an elaborate scale model that could be the home of an attraction or two?

Hollywood, the coastline, the "big" valley, the redwoods, the missions - they've all been shortchanged. I don't think the California theme is such a problem for the theme of a theme park; there's plenty of material for amazing theme park environments! Grizzly Mtn's excellence points out all too well what's wrong with the rest of the park.

But back to my devil's advocate roll:

The Hollywood Backlot street and the currently unused San Francisco street are wonderful starts to what may eventually be full-fledged and evocative recreations of the Golden State's two world-class and utterly famous metropolises. A golden future awaits Disney's California Adventure in the decades to come!

Cooie
08-29-2002, 12:33 PM
Things I love about DCA:

The caramel corn! It's flubbin' fantastic, and I've never been a fan of caramel corn before experiencing it at DCA.

The Animation Pavillion, for all of it's show details, but most of all for the entrance area, where I can sit and watch the history of Disney animation whiz by when my feet are tired.

Redwood Creek River Challenge, which is fun when I have a burst of energy. Gives a good view of the area, including the hotel.

Grr, for the theming and cool-off factor.

And Screaming, for reasons that are probably obvious.

Iceman
08-29-2002, 01:34 PM
Okay, let's talk about California Screamin' for a minute. I think it's fun, but it's entirely PLAIN. They could have built the world's best wooden roller coaster, but instead tried to make a steel coaster LOOK like a woody. They could have built an immersively themed experience like Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, but instead it's just a coaster.

Where is Disney "going the extra" mile like they used to when building attractions? Many of the best Disney rides are not actually brand new concepts, but instead they took existing ideas and made them so much better than anyone had conceived of before.

Cooie
08-29-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Iceman
Okay, let's talk about California Screamin' for a minute. I think it's fun, but it's entirely PLAIN. They could have built the world's best wooden roller coaster, but instead tried to make a steel coaster LOOK like a woody. They could have built an immersively themed experience like Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, but instead it's just a coaster.

Well yeah it's plain, but I think that's the point. It's supposed to be on the boardwalk -- something you see from the other end. It's not meant to be hidden in some themed tube. Besides, there's theming there -- the music adds to the ambience, and I don't think you could do that cool launch or loop with a woody.

LubDatMouse
08-30-2002, 04:23 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iceman
[B]Okay, let's talk about California Screamin' for a minute. I think it's fun, but it's entirely PLAIN. They could have built the world's best wooden roller coaster, but instead tried to make a steel coaster LOOK like a woody. They could have built an immersively themed experience like Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, but instead it's just a coaster.

OhMyGosh ..

I visited DCA for the first time last summer. That roller coaster was a fabulous ride - day AND night.

I'm a roller coaster fanatic - and wasn't expecting a great coaster ride in a Disney park. I have never ridden a smoother roller coaster - and that initial take off .. really took my breath away.

How about this for a DCA future ride ... a wild San Fancisco cable car ride ...

Iceman
08-30-2002, 09:25 PM
Okay, are people like, not reading the title and explanation of this thread, or what?

Tigertail777
08-31-2002, 01:49 AM
OK let me try to get this back on track... I for the most part don't like DCA much but I will try for the good stuff...

I really liked watching the sunwheel (riding may be another matter altogether I never rode it) but it was entrancing to watch and a neat icon.

Soarin was fun, and I did like the sensory expereince of hte smells wafting in the theatre. (honestly it wouldn't take much tobring this up to an E-ticket: more theming in the que and inside the ride show building, and some interactive elements like real AA figures of birds flying with you in parts, put some fog in there when you go through clouds etc. and make the hangingcars better themed ..maybe make them look like hang-gliders).

GRR was fun as well, I did enjoy it, and got quite wet. :) Woudn't take much to bump this one up to E-ticket status as well: better theming/props to see as you go past, animatronics of bears and critters would be nice.

I loved the animation building: the lobby was breath-taking, and many of the exhibits were really fun. I loved Beasts library (though the kiosks that tell which character you are most like absolutely needs to have pay print outs of you character stats, and your face over the charcaters... they could make some real $ this way if it was like a buck). Ursulas voice over kiosks were great too.. another possible money-maker wasted: cheap vcr tape recordings of your voice-overs I would have bought one to see my dad do scar... that was funny!LOL I also loved the musuem type exhibit of the sketches and stuff for the animation, but felt it needed to be a tad bigger-- this is an idea that could take a whole building by itself after all.

I really enjoyed the tough to be a bug show, some of the very best 3d I have seen, this was really something along the lines of the old Disney, my mom just loved it! This was far better than Muppets , even though I am a muppets fan, I really didn't enjoy that one much.

One little detail I really liked was the path by GRR it looks like an old cracked highway, it even has that red shade you find in the highways by the avenue of the giants, I thought that was neat. Plus I really liked the fact that the park had so many prominent water features.

OK thats all I can think of... I didn't really see much of paradise pier since we were going to Magic Mountain the next day, and it didn't from a distance look much better than MM.