PDA

View Full Version : the matterhorn re-done?



Pages : [1] 2

Tref
08-27-2002, 08:07 AM
I wonder if Disney has ever considered re-structuring the Matterhorn ride. I still enjoy the ride, though it doesn't seem to have the oomph that it had when I was younger. In fact, it seemed down right tame compared with the other E style rides at Disneyland. What do you think? I wonder if it is even technically possible to speed it up or add some more dips. Maybe, instead of speeding it up, Disney should re-design it so it is closer to an Indian Jones/Pirates ride. Does the Matterhorn still attract large crowds?



i remain,

RStar
08-27-2002, 09:06 AM
Well, I have heard that they would like to "Ramp-up" some of the old E-ticket rides for DL's 50th anniversary. Mainly the ones that Walt built. However, there is one little thing that stands in the way right now. Money. The company is not doing the best right now, so money is an issue. So what we may get is nothing more than a bit of paint and perhaps, if we are lucky, some slight rethemeing (though we wouldn't want to change the old rides too much). I don't think new track lay-outs or vehicles will be the norm. I think we may get new vehicles for splash (mostly for seat belts) and Space Mountain (new rockets have been spotted and talked about). Even extended ride shows were talked about, but would require so much work that I don't know if it will be possible. The Matterhorn building is built in such a way that I don't think they could do much without totally gutting it first. But the way they rethemed the Matterhorn last time with the addition of the ice caverns and the Snow monster could be redone in some way. They could take some audioanimitronics up there to add to some scenes. Like take some of the country Bears, put people skin on them and add them to the ice caverns. Make them look like mountain climbers camping, or climbing inside the caverns or something.

I know, BLUE SKY.......;)

Gemini Cricket
08-27-2002, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Tref
Does the Matterhorn still attract large crowds?
Usually, Matterhorn is one of the longer lines in the park. I remember, when I used to go to DL almost every day, that I'd often skip Matterhorn because the line was always very long...
:)

Matterhorn Fan
08-27-2002, 10:16 AM
Yes, the Matterhorn still attracts good-size crowds.

I hereby respectfully request that the Matterhorn not be "messed with." If country bears, hydraulics, and/or 3D sound is added to my favorite mountain, I will change my screen name.

But I wouldn't object if they replaced those square wheels with round ones. :D

RStar
08-27-2002, 01:05 PM
There-in lies the delima. Some people want all the old attractions to stay exactly the same (like in the paint colors of Small World). Yet some people would like a fresh new look of an older ride. Would a few new things realy upset you that much? Just a couple of swiss Alps climbers and a base camp, ect. (BTW of course I didn't mean to put Big Al in a swiss climbing out fit in there, just use the inside parts to make people;) ). If the changes are minor and in good taste they could increase the ridership and also the budget for the ride. Would that be so bad?

Don't fear change, it can be a good thing.

No wait. Stike that. We are talking about Eisner Disney here. We might get Big Al climbing the Matterhorn.;)

smd4
08-27-2002, 01:45 PM
RStar said,


If the changes are minor and in good taste they could increase the ridership and also the budget for the ride.

First of all, I don't think the Matterhorn is hurting for ridership. There is always a line.

Second of all, I'm not all that sure that the number of folks who ride has any bearing on the creation of the budget for that particular attrraction.

I have no problem when things are improved. I know that is subjective, but I haven't met anybody yet who thought that the ride wasn't improved with the addition of ice caves and abominable snowmen, vs. the stairways and structural steel members of the original design (except maybe Matterhorn Fan). ;)

I just don't think the addition of a base camp/climbers is really anything that will make this a "must ride," ay more than it already is.

Matterhorn Fan
08-27-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by RStar
Don't fear change, it can be a good thing.

No wait. Stike that. We are talking about Eisner Disney here. We might get Big Al climbing the Matterhorn.;) Just to be clear, I said not to "mess" with it, I didn't say to "never make any changes ever." But yeah, it's Big Al climing the Matterhorn that worries me. The concern that leads me to say "don't mess with the Matterhorn" is the same type of concern that leads others to say "don't mess with the Tiki Room." I'm sure you understand (well, actually, I don't know you, so I'm not sure, but hope so). ;)

smd4: The only time I've seen the Matterhorn without ice caves and snowmen is on the videos from when they opened the ride, FWIW. I'm a little too young to have experienced it the other way, I'm afraid.

Morrigoon
08-27-2002, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't object to them running the skyway through it again. Eye candy.

RStar
08-28-2002, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by smd4




Second of all, I'm not all that sure that the number of folks who ride has any bearing on the creation of the budget for that particular attrraction.



I know that the numbers are used to keep track of poularity (I.E.- rides will be shuttered if they don't get enough people in there). Also, the CMs are very concerned about riders per hour (example- they are upset about the change at Splash for what the new seating has done to capacity). I assumed that may have had an impact on their budget, but I could be wrong. All I know is that if you re-do a ride, you will get curios people riding it. Sure, the curiosity will wear off, but I saw the long lines for POTC when it was first made PC, and that was a "Mess With" change if you ask me.

So the big question is, if they "update" Matterhorn what can they do to it to make it a better ride and not ruin it? My idea seems to be too cheesy for some people (it may come out looking like the Log Ride at Knott's). And gutting it for new track is most likely out of the question (LIM would be great, but it wouldn't be the old bumpy Matterhorn we grew up with either -and I can remember the inside of the Matterhorn before the change, I was born the same year! -that would be too much of a change).

Any one got any other viable ideas?

smd4
08-28-2002, 09:51 AM
The thing is, if there's constantly a line, then the the ride is operating at (or probably above) capacity. It doesn't really matter how long the line is. If the line is always 200 people long, with everything running properly (i.e., maximum number of cars on track, both tracks operating), and the line stays at 200 peopl long all day, then it's at capacity.

I never see empty bobsleds or logs go out because there is no one waiting in line to fill the seats. This would mean the ride wasn't popular.

With attractions like Country Bears, where the theater is only 1/3 full for every show, then the atraction is not operating at capacity, which probably led to its demise. Or PeopleMover trains with 2 riders on the whole train: Same thing--not popular, get rid of it.

I think it would be difficult, if not impossible, to gauge how many new folks would be riding the Matterhorn because of a few small cosmetic changes. The line's still going to be a half-hour long if climbers are added, or if the interior is painted neon pink, or nothing is done. Doesn't matter.

RStar
08-28-2002, 05:14 PM
Well, I think I know what you're meaning now. I'm not talking about fixing a ride with low ridership in order to get the ridership up. It does always have a line, but when the crowd gets light they close one side, keeping a longer line. But then capasity is cut in half.

Take this example:

There is a 2 hour line at Splash.

They put seats in a 8 seat boat that makes them seat 5 and with the belts it takes 10 seconds extra to load. Now the line is 3 hours, and capasity is cut by 1/3. Is the ride more poular? No, it just has a longer line.

However, that has little to do with what I mean. The point of what do they do with the capasity numbers is what I was talking about. And frankly I don't know, and it has little to do with this thread.

So forgeting the capasity numbers for now, what could be a nice change for the 50th anniversary for good old Matterhorn that won't ruin it?

Or does any one know what the plans (if any ) might be?

AliKzam
08-28-2002, 07:26 PM
I think it would be cute to add a little base camp that you can see standing in line at the base of the mountain. It would be one of those things that people would think has always been there, they just haven't noticed it before.
Also, I'd like to see people climbing the Matterhorn, again. Maybe I'm missing it, but I never see that, anymore.

Tigertail777
08-28-2002, 11:24 PM
I have always thought it would be neat to have huge ice structures kind of like ice caverns that the bobsleds go through for part of the ride (maybe large icicles that meet the ground), it would be fairly easy to make out of acrylic, and put a little lighting behind it for the "icy" look. Also, dunno how feasible it is, but have actual "snow" fall on riders in certain parts... this could be actual flakes of ice like snow cone ice (not the big hard chunky stuff... the soft Hawaiian ice stuff), or those bubbles that look like snow that they use a christmas. Plus it would be nice to have more fog in some areas so you can't see as much where you are going. AND it has alwyas bothered me that much of the floor looks like concrete, it would nice to make it look like it really is covered in snow and ice, using a acrylic cover with irridescent glitter in it over a white base. Plus I miss not having as much openings for the car to go outside and back in--that used to be a nice "thrill".

RStar
08-29-2002, 09:01 AM
That's a great idea! Snow machines from main street! That would be cool! And ice structures would be cool. That's what I'm talking about. Cool but subtle changes.

Did the ride change to where you don't go outside as much? I don't remember that.....

AliKzam
08-29-2002, 10:33 AM
Maybe before the rehab of the 80s? I've read that to start the ride, you used to go up the hill rather than inside it. Maybe you went outside of it more back then, too?

smd4
08-29-2002, 10:56 AM
I don't believe the track layouts have ever been changed. The sleds ALWAYS went up the lift INSIDE the mountain, but since the mountain structure was hollow, with the Skyway passing through, there was a lot more daylight inside.

Tigertail's suggestions are wonderful.

merlinjones
08-29-2002, 11:03 AM
I'd like to see an Alpine Gardens at the base of Matterhorn with an outdoor Coffee House/Patisserie (perhaps at the backside of Tomorrowland)... and leave the ride alone, except to replace the Skyway and tunnels.

RStar
08-29-2002, 11:37 AM
The Alpine gardens would be good. They could use that area that is left from the Phantom Boats just across from the queue area.

MJ, they will never put the skyway back from what I understand, so the only change you would like to see is in the grounds around the base? What about the queue area? Any ideas there? I have not been in the queue since they reworked it, but it has always been rather boring.

Tref
08-29-2002, 06:46 PM
I would like to see the Matterhorn re-done in the same manner as the inside of Thunder Mountain railroad. Especially the version at WDW, which was as much fun to marvel at as it was to ride. I don't think those type of changes would hurt the integrity of the original version. Plus, the ride definately needs a bigger splash at the end.

i remain,

Tigertail777
08-30-2002, 12:19 PM
Well I only remember this from when I was very little, but old Walt disney presents show with the opening of the Matterhorn seems to bear me out: they had several open spaces up on the side of the mountain that the car would zip out side quickly breifly where you could see a lot of the park, then do a kind of hairpin turn back inside. I also have an old WED disneyland dictionary that have paragraph blurbs about everything in the park this is what it says about Matterhorn:" a 146-foot-high replica of the famous Swiss Mountain. The Matterhorn is Disneyland's tallest landmark. Mountain climbers scale its steep slopes regularly for the entertainment of guests. Its racing bobsleds are among Disneyland's most popular attractions. THe skyway passes through the "Glacier Grotto" and "ice caverns" half way to the top. Tinkerbell begins her flight from its peak every night during the summer season.
BOBSLEDS: provide one of the most thrilling adventures in Disneyland with two seperate "runs". Four passenger bobsleds climb to an eight story height inside the mountain, then race downward on tracks, WHICH WIND INSIDE AND OUT, skim past waterfalls and through "Glacier Grotto" PROVIDING MANY FLASH-BY VIEWS OF DISNELAND. Climax of the journey comes as sleds splash into Glacier Lakes at the bottom of the mountain."
(I put the main quotes in caps so you knew what part I was focusing on.. other than that this is directly quoted from an old 1960's WED Disneyland Dictionary which they used as an overview for everything in the park)

I also think that had they had the technology of different plastic acrylics and such Walt would have installed something simular to my suggestions earlier, they have the IDEAS for that theming in the descriptions already, but didn't have the technology to flesh it out as we do now. Merlins idea for the restaurant open garden place at the base is wonderful! Love that! I don't know how feasible it is, but I also had an idea for a Matterhorn giftshop on the top of the materhorn that you take the elevator inside to (maybe a restaurant/gift shop combo?) it would make a very nice view of hte park and they could theme it as a ski chalet... might cause traffic problems though dunno- sort of a seattle space needle restaurant idea (you go up an elevator to the top where the restaurant is). You could even make it in such a way that you see people through windows zipping past in bobsleds maybe, though this may take a bit of restructuring.

smd4
08-30-2002, 12:25 PM
The bobsleds still jut in and out of the mountain, offering varied glimpses of the park.

I would wager dollars to donuts that the track has not changed. The Matterhorn structure is extrememly permanent and fixed. Altering or re-aligning the routes even slightly will create curvatures that might not be physically possible for the sleds to navigate.

Plus, what would have been the reason to alter the route? it would have cost tons of money, but for what benefit?

RStar
08-30-2002, 01:03 PM
I'm sure the track layout, or route ever changed. I think what may have given somone the openion that it doesn't go outside as much may be from changing rockwork on the outer lip near the track. This could have raised the wall up (possibly for safty) making it harder to see out over the park. I frankly find it hard to belive that the trains don't do exactly the same as they did before.

And what great ideas (don't know about the resturaunt at the top of the mounain though;) )!

I hope an imagenier reads this!

Tigertail777
08-30-2002, 02:20 PM
Sorry I should have clarified: NO the track has not changed, but YES they have built a higher "wall" in the area where you go outside so you really can't see the park the way you used to, and I am not sure about this, but one turn somewhere near the place where the skyway cars used to go through, has been sealed over completely so you don't see the outside at all. It looked to me like they built a substantially higher wall when you go outside when I rode it a month ago, you really cant get the vista of the park that you used to, and I am convinced that several of the places you used to go outside have been sealed over for some reason. I will rewatch my opening day video to make sure, but I am quite positive.
Yes, the restaurant at the top idea is not really feasible unless it were made inside the employee basketball court in the inside top, but then you would have the problem of where to put something simular for the employees to make up for it. Anothjer thing I forgot to add: I think the interiors should have very cold icy temperatures where you can see your breath, its not like you be in there long enough to freeze, and it would be a nice touch. Of course they would probably have to makesome kind of "door" that opens when the bobsleds come by so they can keep the cold in, but that is very feasible, you wouldn't even have to see it open, so it wouldn't ruin the theme. Another idea that would work in the same lines is to use the Indy fog/rat efect to project a film of the abominable snowman running just in front of your bobsled breifly, and you could really scare people by having the full speaker surround sound efects of him roaring.

RStar
08-30-2002, 03:15 PM
The problem with the "door closing" to keep the cold in is that legal won't allow the chance of ever having people trapped in there with the door shut in case of a fire. That's why they have had so much trouble with the "Rats" in the Indy ride, you have to have the air be real stilll for the fog to stay put so you can project on to it. Legal wouldn't let them do it.

It wouldn't be too hard to make it cold inside, even without the doors. So with no door in the Matterhorn it would be even harde to get that effect due to the fact that there is much more air flow in the Matterhorn.

Good idea though, to project a "Holographic Snowman"!:D

SpamSpamSpam
08-30-2002, 06:15 PM
I really like the cold air idea. maybe they could do it with a series
of air curtains. There used to be a department store in Portland
that used this method. That would get around the fire issues and provide a way of dropping the temp with a cold blast that you would ride through without trying to cool the whole outdoors.