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View Full Version : Tom Sawyer Waiver?



merlinjones
08-19-2002, 06:47 AM
It makes me heartsick to see Tom Sawyer Island's charming caves (my favorite), rocks and bridges closed up due to legal department paranoia.

I man, really... in 45 years how many kids were really hurt out there? Do a few bad apples have to spoil everyone's fun? We are only human beings, after all, of course things will happen.... anywhere.

It seems to me, given that the Island can only be reached by a single source - - raft, and one must CHOOSE to go out there - - that they could post a waiver/disclaimer WARNING such as "Warning: Tom Sawyer Island is wild and untamed wilderness where kids can climb rocks and the dangers are potentially real. Parental supervision is necessary for those under age ___. Those entering the rafts agree that Disneyland will not be responsible for injuries resulting from guest negligence on Tom Sawyer Island. If you do not agree, please remain on the mainland to enjoy our other attractions."

The CM on the raft could repeat the mantra to the boatload, who can exit if they wish.

Now, to you legal eagles out there: Why wouldn't this solve the problem without ruining Walt Disney's still-relevant Tom Sawyer Island experience?

coronamouseman
08-19-2002, 07:24 AM
mj: You must know by now that waivers or any other documents people sign regarding "risk" and "potential of injury" mean nothing ........... A corporation's only defense against activities or situations that are risky are simply to eliminate those activities or, if they must be undertaken, provide sufficient safety measures to protect against even the most insipid or inspired attempts to defeat those measures.

merlinjones
08-19-2002, 07:32 AM
>>mj: You must know by now that waivers or any other documents people sign regarding "risk" and "potential of injury" mean nothing ........... A corporation's only defense against activities or situations that are risky are simply to eliminate those activities or, if they must be undertaken, provide sufficient safety measures to protect
against even the most insipid or inspired attempts to defeat those measures.<<

But wouldn't just the directness/threat of this message tend to decrease the liklihood of opportunists taking advantage - -just by attrition or intimidation? Sort of "the big lie" approach.

You'll never have 100% protection.

coronamouseman
08-19-2002, 07:59 AM
100% protection is closing something ............

merlinjones
08-19-2002, 08:04 AM
>>100% protection is closing something ............<<

That's what I mean. Someone could just as easily crack thier head open on the curb on Main Street. If you're going to be in business, you have to take the risk. There are no guarantees.

Why pick on Tom Sawyer Island or Skyway? Especially when Indy is more potentially dangerous in actuality.

coronamouseman
08-19-2002, 08:11 AM
mj: You're absolutely right - the selection process by which certain attractions are singled out is what seems so ridiculous .....

Ever been to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon? There are precarious pathways and trails all over the place but you don't hear about people sueing the US govt ...........

They don't fence off all the beaches in California or Florida because some dumb tourist might get caught in a riptide or get hit by a wave ..........

But since it is within the Disney park confines, look out for that litigation ..........

disguy
08-19-2002, 08:14 AM
I don't think it was just for lawsuit reasons. I generally think it was closed due to the same concerns as Sleeping Beauty Castle was closed back in Sept. Terrorist threat's, which would be very easy to plant one in a cave such as those. It's sounds dumb but you never know anymore. Give them the bennefit of the doubt. They either close a little cave and some rock climbing or get a lawsuit by greedy guests and have them loose so much money they'd have to close a really "good" ride to make up for profit loss.

merlinjones
08-19-2002, 08:18 AM
>>I generally think it was closed due to the same concerns as Sleeping Beauty Castle was closed back in Sept. Terrorist threat's, which would be very easy to plant one in a cave such as those. It's sounds dumb but you never know anymore. <<

Actually, that makes more sense. They seem to be eliminating unsupervised areas.


>>Give them the bennefit of the doubt.<,

From experience, I would never do that.


>>They either close a little cave and some rock climbing or get a lawsuit by greedy guests and have them loose so much money they'd have to close a really "good" ride to make up for profit loss.<<

Maybe I think Skyway and Tom Sawyer Island are the really "good" rides...

innerSpaceman
08-19-2002, 11:54 AM
At this point, since they already tie up the entry process to the parks with that purely-for-show bag search, they should just recite the ubiquitous "arms, legs, feet, hands, lips, nose, teeth, and navel inside the cars at all times" speech to every arriving guest and make them sign a statement that they have heard it. Then maybe we can be spared the silliness of hearing it in twelve languages at the beginning of each and every ride (especially if they are going to destroy classic attraction narrations in the process - witness Paul Frees' lost doombuggy safety spiel).

bluepearl
08-19-2002, 01:25 PM
When I read the title, all that came to mind was the movie Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, where Gene Wilder makes all the kids sign the contract on the wall before getting the good stuff.

I've never walked through the caves or seen any of the stuff that's been closed and probably will be closed forever. The first time I went to the island was only several weeks ago...I think at the beginning of the summer.

rexfarms
08-19-2002, 01:31 PM
I really love TSI but would you rather have it closed or mindless speils every 30 seconds all over the park? I hope it opens soon.

innerSpaceman
08-19-2002, 03:52 PM
I havent' cruised around the RoA for a while, so I gotta say it was a complete shock to me this weekend to see that Tom Sawyer Island was even open to visitors when all but a tiny corner of the southern tip of the island was closed off. It was sad. It was ridiculous. People could play on the Fantasmic Stage and the barrel bridge - and that's it! Waste of a raft ride.

rexfarms
08-19-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
I havent' cruised around the RoA for a while, so I gotta say it was a complete shock to me this weekend to see that Tom Sawyer Island was even open to visitors when all but a tiny corner of the southern tip of the island was closed off. It was sad. It was ridiculous. People could play on the Fantasmic Stage and the barrel bridge - and that's it! Waste of a raft ride.

I agree. What a waste. lol

zapppop
08-19-2002, 05:59 PM
I've heard some other people say this and I feel the same way: I think Disney should print a waiver on your tickets and AP'ers sign a brief contract stating that Disney takes no responsibility in the event you are injured in the park. That's what I would do.

Morrigoon
08-19-2002, 09:37 PM
Even if that did release them from liability (it doesn't), it would not stop them from TRYING to sue you, which still costs the company tons of money to defend itself. So they need to erase even the *chance* of someone suing them :rolleyes:

Uncle Dick
08-19-2002, 09:47 PM
I've often wanted to venture into the working offices of the illustrious Disneyland safety department and learn by what voodoo the officials there divine what is "safe" and what isn't. Why, for instance, do the relatively sedate Small World and Pirate boats warrant air gates while "roller coaster type" attractions like the Matterhorn and Space Mountain (which have both undergone renovation during the recent "air gate craze") only feature the ever popular yellow line? Of course, you can't really blame the safety department for trying to cover Disney's "assets". Rather it is the willingness of our judicial system to tolerate claims which aren't worth the papers they're filed on. Where's Judge Joe Brown when you need him?

rexfarms
08-19-2002, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Uncle Dick
I've often wanted to venture into the working offices of the illustrious Disneyland safety department and learn by what voodoo the officials there divine what is "safe" and what isn't. Why, for instance, do the relatively sedate Small World and Pirate boats warrant air gates while "roller coaster type" attractions like the Matterhorn and Space Mountain (which have both undergone renovation during the recent "air gate craze") only feature the ever popular yellow line? Of course, you can't really blame the safety department for trying to cover Disney's "assets". Rather it is the willingness of our judicial system to tolerate claims which aren't worth the papers they're filed on. Where's Judge Joe Brown when you need him?


lol:D