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malin
08-06-2002, 03:22 PM
I was just reading an interesting interview over at mouseinfo.com with Senior Vice President of Disneyland Resort Operations, Randy Baumberger.And after reading it, Im very positive about the future of the DLR.We have so much to look forward to over the next few years.


Disneyland:
Pooh attraction
50th celebrations
And no doubt other suprises

Disney's California Adventure:
Tower Of Terror
Fliks Fun Fair
The Aladdin Show
New Lagoon show

Plus:
A Third Park
Downtown Disney and Hotels Expansion and upgrading
And a 2nd parking lot

I was also reading AL's DIG Update today and was happy to see all the paint being added at last.

I think the next few years is going to be a great time to be at Disneyland.I can't wait.

merlinjones
08-06-2002, 08:31 PM
>>I was just reading an interesting interview over at mouseinfo.com with Senior Vice President of Disneyland Resort Operations, Randy Baumberger.And after reading it, Im very positive about the future of the DLR.We have so much to look forward to over the next few years.<<

After all we've been through, you still believe Disney company PR?

"That's a piecrust promise: Easily made... easily broken." - - Mary Poppins

>>Disneyland:
Pooh attraction<<

Downgraded from previous versions. No hopping vehicles. Replaces a Marc Davis classic when it could have gone into Motor Boat Cruise.

>>50th celebrations<<

I'm not interested in cheesy merchandise parties. They should restore something cool for the anniversary (several actual attractions at least) or I'll be very disappointed. No tacky sloganeering or pink castles or giant sorcerer hats! We want the meat!

>>And no doubt other suprises<<

Hopefully good ones, not more ride closures.

>>Disney's California Adventure:
Tower Of Terror
Fliks Fun Fair
The Aladdin Show
New Lagoon show<<

ZZZZZZzzzzzzz....z...z..z..z..z..z..z

>>Plus:
A Third Park <<

Aint gonna happen until they get the second one working or Anti-Walt leaves.

>>Downtown Disney and Hotels Expansion and upgrading<<

They need some populist priced restaurants. A Baja Fresh or Rubios, please...

>>And a 2nd parking lot<<

NOW I'm excited...!

>>I was also reading AL's DIG Update today and was happy to see all the paint being added at last.<<

Until those hills are green again, I won't hold my breath.

>>I think the next few years is going to be a great time to be at Disneyland. I can't wait.<<

Have fun, but realize it's not nearly as good as it could/should be and spend appropriately to give them the message we won't settle for less than their best!

Iceman
08-06-2002, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the positive, upbeat outlook malin! I share your views.

You need to look into antidepressants, mj. The world is not out to get you, life does not suck, and you're going to put yourself in an early grave if you can't break out of that cynical funk.

mkyears
08-06-2002, 10:08 PM
I"M SICK OF PEOPLE NO OFFENSE JUST LOOKING AT THE DOWNSIDE OF EVERYTHING AT MOUSEPLANET. I GO TO DISNEYLAND AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH WITH FRIENDS HAVE A BLAST EVERY TIME. I THINK WE ARE GETTING TO CAUGHT UP IN THE LITTLE THINGS WHO CARES IF THE POOH RIDE ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE ONE IN DISNEYWORLD IS IT GOING TO CHANGE SOMEONES LIFE THAT BAD. I LOVE DISNEYLAND BUT IF THERES ONE THING I'VE LEARNED
YOU GET WHAT YOU PUT INTO LIFE AND IF EVERYTHING IS NEGATIVE THEN FINE YOUR VISIT TO DISNEYLAND WILL SUCK BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT ATTITUDE. I'M SORRY IF I SOUND RUDE SERIOUSLY IT'S JUST I'VE NEVER HAD A DOWN LOOK AT DISNEYLAND UNTIL I READ EVERYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT IT HERE. I HATE WALKING INTO DISNEYLAND WITH MY LITTLE BROTHERS AND INSTEAD OF SAYING LET'S GO SEE MICKEY SAYING LET'S GO SEE IF THE PAINT'S FADING ON THE HANDRAILS.

I beleive mouseplanet has given me great info but I just want to hear more positives and less this is gonna suck and that's gonna suck .

Andrew
08-06-2002, 10:13 PM
mkyears, please don't post in ALL CAPS. Thank you.

merlinjones
08-07-2002, 07:05 AM
>>You need to look into antidepressants, mj.<<

Sorry, I prefer choice over conformity.

>>The world is not out to get you<<

You're absolutely right, the executives are purely out for themselves.... it has nothing do with any of us. That's the problem.

>>life does not suck<<

I totally agree.

>>and you're going to put yourself in an early grave if you can't break out of that cynical funk.<<

As will this business, if they don't start to run it responsibly and consider its customers and its reputation first. The recent corporate upheavals are a warning blast.

coronamouseman
08-07-2002, 07:30 AM
Yes, sorry to say that DCA is not TDS or IOA ............

But DLR now has:

(1) Hotel infrastructure and DTD entertainment zone in place to support a 2nd gate (and maybe even a third one) at DLR

(2) DCA is open and the necessary park infrastructure of staff and services are there - all they need to do is add attractions (just like they did and are doing at DS and AK in WDW and DSP in Paris)

(3) ToT going up and most likely some other "Big" Rides to follow in the future

Patience, patience, patience ...................

Would those who continue to bash DCA rather have been around in 1955 when there was only Disneyland and no DLR or even WDW?

smd4
08-07-2002, 07:54 AM
Merlin J is right.

When I started going to Disneyland in the early 1970's as a 6 year old, the place was SPOTLESS. I never saw food wrappers or straws or empty water bottles clutering the shores of the waterways between Main Street and Adernturland or Frontierland. In the summer, just about every ride was operating. There were no parts of the park where you would catch whiffs of stagnant water or trash. And the painting was spotless.

When I got older and learned to read, I studied how Disney workers would replace the pin lights on the Main Street Buildings when they reached 80% of their life expectancy. GET IT? They replaced the bulbs before they burned out!

Now, things are different. Sure, it's still a fun place to go. So is the Queen Mary or Hollywood Boulevard or Magic Mountain. I have a GREAT time every time I go there. But something IS missing.

When I got my first AP in the mid 1990's, I got to go to the park more often, and I really began to notice the changes. It wasn't untill maybe a year ago when I started reading these boards that I realized I was not the only one interested in Disneyland, and that I was not the only one noticing the degredation. If it weren't for folks like MJ, those who critique and don't let up, then new folks, or Disney execs who read these boards, would think That Disneyland is doing a fantastic job of keeping Walt's dream alive.

As many of us have realized, they're not.

There are those out there who could have a good time at a car wash, and I think that's great. Whatever floats your boat. But I can't help but thinking that folks like MJ are really the keepers of the flame. If you think all they do is criticize, then you're missing the point. If you want to go through life with blinders on, that's fine, too. But many of us remember a time when the park was BETTER. Why wouldn't anyone want to see that again?

I think a lot of you are like the proverbial frog in the stove pot of water. When the water is cold, the frog is omfortable, As the heat is turned up, the water begins to warm. The frog doesn't notice, since the heat is rising so gradually. By the time the water is boiling, the frog is dead. As Disneyland slowly disintegrates before our eyes, shouldn't we do something?

Don't let MJ's comments ruin your day. But try to understand that the negativity is not aimed at squelching your enjoyment of the park. Indeed, it is aimed at making your Disneyland experince BETTER than you could ever imagine.

Disney Nick
08-07-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by coronamouseman
Would those who continue to bash DCA rather have been around in 1955 when there was only Disneyland and no DLR or even WDW?
I don't think you eralize how much some of us would give to go back to 1955 and be there the first year.... It's like a dream come true.... :cool:

coronamouseman
08-07-2002, 08:09 AM
I was there in 1960 - the park had far fewer exicting attractions than it does now ...........

Can you honestly say that you would rather ride one of those nasty old mules into a fake desert than ride on BTM?

Would you rather watch some indians perform native dances than ride on Splash Mountain?

Would you rather wait for an hour only to find out that the Flying Saucers were broken again for that day rather than riding Space Mountain?

Would you like to wait 2 hours to ride the Matterhon back when it was the only real thrill ride in the park (except maybe the teacups?)

No POTC, no HM, no Indy .........

Yes, the novelty would be nice but once it wore off you would be very bored

coronamouseman
08-07-2002, 08:26 AM
smd4: When you are 6 years old and enter "heaven on earth", you don't look for cracks in the paint ...........

First love is always blind ............

As one gets older, their critical thought processes become more developed so evaluation and analysis of the environment is increaed ........

Yes, there probably are some shortcuts or "cost-effective" changes in maintenance policies at DL or WDW that have taken place over time but there is good chance that over time your critical analysis of what you see has changed.

And familiarity breeds more analysis. Having an AP means that you will be there more often, see things more critically or microscopically than the entranced occasional visitor, eat food at a restaurant more than once and then compare the one experience to the other. The APer who has been on Indy 50 times is more likely to note that the fan in the mummy room is not running at full speed or that the dart room air blasts were timed improperly - the first time rider will simply go "Wow - that's the coolest ride I've ever been on!".

So take a look every so often with a child's view - look up high with the sense of wonder at what is there as opposed to what is underfoot .......

smd4
08-07-2002, 09:18 AM
I agree with you, caronamouseman, and I thought about what you are saying when I was drafting my post. I'm sure I missed a lot of things when younger, and noticed them a lot more when I visited more frequently.

Certainly, if there were problems back then, I didn't notice them. But after reading things like the fact that even professional painters were amazed at the painting quality at Disneyland, or the aforentioned pin-light replacement policy, I have to assume that things were, in fact, a little better back then.

One thing I do remember seeing (and this might really sound nit-picky), are the street lights on Main Street. At one time, they used "mantles" for the gas lamps--similar to what Coleman camping lanterns use. These were small fabric mesh "bags" that were tied around the base of the lamp, where the gas would come out. When ignited, the mantels become incandescent, and glow very brightly. These actually were in use at the turn of the century, and as a young teen (early 80's), I was amazed at this detail, so much so that I became very interested in studying what life was really like at the turn of the century--an intrest I still have to this day.

Several years ago, presumably to cut costs, the mantels were discarded, and the lamps now only use the dim candle-like flame of gas as the sole means of illumination. Agreed--this is about as small and un-noticed a detail as one is likely to find. But it bothers me still. And I noticed this change when I was still only going to Disneyland only once a year.

So, if I can notice a shortcut like this, I have no reason to believe that folks aren't noticing the much more apparent maintenence shortcuts, and that bothers me too.

I still try to look at things like a kid might. But Disneyland was never meant to be just about kids. It was about kids and parents having fun together. And what a kid might not notice, a parent might--detracting from his/her fun. Having to look at the same unsightly peeling paint that adorns my own garage makes the fantasy of Disneyland all the more real, and I am less able to transport myself, through Disneyland, to another place and time. While not everyone notices these problems consciously, I still believe they have a negative effect, however slight. And that's the real shame of it all.

innerSpaceman
08-07-2002, 09:48 AM
I look forward to Disneyland's future with a muted sence of optimism. In the 25 years I've been regularly visiting the park, the present time has got to the be the low point for Disneyland. As such, I feel that things can only get better (as they can hardly get worse - knock on wood).

While I think that ToT will be an improvement for DCA, and that (don't throw things at me) Winnie the Pooh will be an improvement for Critter Country, I cannot help but also feel disappointed that we are getting bargain-basement versions of these attractions.

I am glad that some new attractions are on the way, but I am sad that they are not truly NEW attractions, and even sadder that later-created versions of these attractions do not seek to improve upon them, but rather to rely upon their pre-existing reputation to get by with the bare minimum.

And much as I recognize the deteriorating state of the "Disneyland Resort" and the lack of quality imagineering that has been going into the parks, I do have a fabulous time at Disneyland, and yes even at DCA, everytime I go. It is possible to see the world without rose-colored blinders and still have a good time.

Tigertail777
08-07-2002, 10:40 AM
Y'know when I went a little over 4 weeks ago, I was expecting the worst, but was pleasantly surprised with how good it was kept up (for the most part)...UNTIL I set foot in Tomorrowland. And that is about all I did in Tomorrowland was set a foot into it I couldn't bring myself to go any farther and almost started crying right there. I can't beleive the utter horrible desolate pit Tomorrowland has become. I wanted to ride space mountain, and star tours, and see honey for the first time, but even the promise of seeing something I had never seen before (honey I shrunk the audience) was not enough I was absolutely heart broken after seeing what has become of Tomorrowland. Internet pics don't do justice to how poorly it looks plastic fish were floating as if dead on the surface of the sub lagoon along with trash debris for crying out loud! Yes, MOST of the rest of the park is kept up DECENTLY, (not to the OLD Disneyland quality I remember from my youth, but a passing resemblance with some exceptions such as the poor tiki room), BUT Tomorrowland is just a cesspool I turned a blind eye to that land for the rest of the trip, because I knew if I looked again it would ruin my whole vacation. One more little rant and I'll be done: Indy is still a relatively new ride isn't it? Well when I went and rode it twice, there were noticable portions of the ride that had things not working--what the heck??? Are they letting it fall apart already? And fyi: I had NEVER rode Indy before and I noticed these things--that's pretty darn bad.

roberts1398
08-07-2002, 10:40 AM
smd4 -- maybe it wasn't just a cost measure; maybe it was environment or safety related. We don't know. Remember, they used to put burning candles on Christmas Trees, lol!

Hey I agree with Malin et al ... as my Grandma used to say, "you reap what you sow..." If you approach it with a negative eye, you will see the negative. If you approach it with a positive attitude, you will feel the magic still. Regardless of chipping/fading paint or gas flames instead of mantles, or rides that don't live up to an individual's expectations.

For those of us whose memories are forever filled with the Disneyland of our youth (which for me seems like an eternity ago), it is easy to get caught up in measuring the DL of today against the DL or our memories, and finding it comes up short. But that's not fair... which of us is exactly what we were in those memories?

DL -- like us -- is ever changing. Some of those changes are for the better, and -- like us -- some for the worse. But nonetheless we continue to try...

I remember what I told my stepdaughter when she was 8 and asked me if there really was a Santa Claus. I told her that Santa exists as long as you believe in magic. When there are no children left in a household that are capable of believing in magic, then he removes you from the list.

This is appropriate for the Disney approach as well. The magic of Disney will continue as long as there are children of all ages who believe in the magic...

gosh, I'm choking myself up. :crying: :D

roberts1398
08-07-2002, 10:47 AM
For those of you who are critical of DLR today, may I make a suggestion? Borrow a kid and take him or her to DLR. No, taking your own won't do, as they're probably as jaded as you are. But find a kid, preferably age 5-10, who has never been to DLR. Take them. And watch. See the magic through their eyes. They won't see the chipped paint or abandoned fish in the lagoon.

They will see the magic... the magic of Walt that will always remain inside that Place ... and maybe, just maybe, a little of it might rub off on you!

Try it. You just might be surprised.

JCLowesman
08-07-2002, 11:00 AM
I am exactly two weeks older than Disneyland. That makes me prehistoric in the eyes of some of you, but for me that child-like magic that Walt brought to the world is slowly being allowed to wither and die.

When I was young, my family made trips to THE PARK at least 4 times a year, bringing family and friends from the East Coast, or just for our own pleasure. My Dad always made a point of showing off how beautiful, clean and friendly the place was, contrasting with the dismal amusment parks that were the norm back then. He even tried a experiment by making a small mark on a lamp post on Main Street; way above normal eye level; one Saturday before closing and looking for it the next day. It was gone. This was the level of care the Disney people had for their enterprise.

Now, as so many of us have commented, major attractions go un-cared for, buildings are left to rot, litter and gum (something BANNED by Walt in the early days) cover the sidewalks most days, and the so-called "NEW" attractions are just rehashed old amusment park rides you can find at any traveling carnival.

No, I don't want to travel back in time to the "good old days." I miss "Inner Space," " Carousel of Progress," and the Submarines as much as anybody. Heck, I even miss the Motorboats. However, old attractions wear out, tastes and interests change over time and need to be addressed in new ways. But the basic premise of Disneyland is in danger. If they bulldozed "Small World" or filled in the "Rivers of America" I would mourn them for a time, but if it were to make way for a WORTHY replacement I'd accept it and move on. Blasphemy, maybe, but it is the truth. Even Walt said the Disneyland would never be completed. I'm sure he meant that it should be constantly renewed, but that the quality should never be allowed to suffer.

The key word in the last paragraph is WORTHY! It is unfortunate, but the last true attraction added to Disneyland was "Indy," and the ONLY really decent rehab was to "Autopia." Other than those, the Magic seems to be gone!

Now, I was "flamed" the other day in a diffrent thread for snapping at another writer for suggesting that the empty area behind "Big Thunder" be put to use for new attractions. OK, my little outburst may have been unfortunate, and yes that area should be put to use; but until the current management mob learns to use and protect what they have, then they shouldn't attempt to expand into "virgin" territory. I point to DCA as proof.

I don't pretend to have the solutions to the woes of Disney. Maybe there aren't any. But we need to keep using this forum and all the other means we have to keep pointing out to ANYBODY that will listen that, as far as we are concerned, we "ain't" happy with "The Happiest Kingdom on Earth."

KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE!

smd4
08-07-2002, 11:16 AM
All the suggestions to take a kid to Disneyland and experience it through their eyes are well-meaning, but miss the point.

Of course kids love Disneyland. They still go crazy for it, and rightly so. But there was always something about the place that made it interesting for me as I got older. I noticed details that kids wouldn't notice, and that kept my interest and attention . So, I ended up, as probably all of you, enjoying the park just as much, if not more so, as an adult than when I was a kid.

While the carousel didn't hold as much enjoyment for me as it did as a kid, I was able to appreciate the carousel horses as works of art that were impeccably maintained. Converesely, while Main Street held little interest to this 7-year old, the me that's about to turn 36 can study the architectural details and design (and, now, the peeling paint) for hours.

What's at Disneyland to keep the interest of today's teens? I know--it's not the end of the world. Folks will always flock to the park. But the details and cleanliness that allowed me to continue to find fascination with the place, say, over Magic Mountain, as I matured from a wide-eyed kid, through my teens, and into my adult years, seem to be disappearing.

So sure, taking a kid to Disneyland and seeing it though their eyes is great fun, (I've of course done that several times) and reminds us of our lost innocence. But Disneyland should be a place where we can regain some of that innocence--not a place to remind me that I STILL need to paint that darned garage.

Iceman
08-07-2002, 11:39 AM
I kind of resent being painted as a blinder-wearing, rose-colored-glasses-toting semi-retarded oaf who doesn't have the sense to ever generate a negative thought. I have merely tried to provide a more balanced view to the vehemently negative posts I have seen.

Disney's having some trouble right now. I'm not impressed with the recent efforts from Imagineering, top leadership is getting too much financial reward for lackluster performance, and I see warning signs of a company that is focusing more on short-term profits than long-term success. I see nothing wrong with pointing out these deficiencies, discussing them intelligently, and working to help the company improve by providing realistic, concrete solutions.

Endless complaining, reminiscing about how great it used to be, attacking of people with different viewpoints, and an utter inability to see the world as anything but falling apart are at best unproductive. Claiming that people who fall into that category are somehow "better" Disney fans is, to be honest, astounding to me.

Marty
08-07-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by roberts1398
For those of you who are critical of DLR today, may I make a suggestion? Borrow a kid and take him or her to DLR.

I'm all over this suggestion.

My first visit to Disneyland was back in 1976 (I think) and I thought the place was a colossal bore. I was a teenager and the Magic Kingdom held no interest for me whatsoever. My younger brother and sister had a decent enough time, but after the first of three days there I felt trapped.

Then as an adult I moved to and lived in Tokyo for a number of years. Again, I had no interest in visiting a Disney park that was a mere 40-minute train ride away. The thing is I even worked for a company that had strong ties to OLC and could have gone for absolutely nothing (and been given a VIP tour). Didn't matter though, theme parks just weren't my thing.

Finally I have some kids and am convinced for their sake to trip to Disneyland. By this time, though, I am starting to come around a little. I have already seen how much joy and entertainment our growing collection of Disney videos brings to my daughters. So why not let them see it for themselves.

Well, I was stunned at the fun I ended up having. Starting as a certified Disney curmudgeon, after a few short days I was hooked. The delight my daughters experienced enveloped me in way that took me completely by surprise. The fact is I don't care what Disney was like 5, 10, 20 years ago. All I know is that Disneyland today did an incredible job of entertaining my family. For that I am grateful.

And the thing is, before we went, I was quite prepared to accept what many on this board are preaching. I took a look around the internet, found this site for some info and took notice of this ongoing debate over the quality at Disneyland today. Given my background I had already made up my mind whose side I was on: of course DCA sucked, no doubt Disneyland was falling into a morass of disrepair, undoubtedly corporate trolls were sucking the very life-blood from everything Walt stood for. In fact, after reading mousepad for a few weeks, I almost convinced my wife to scrap our Disney plans in favour of a week at a Mexico resort.

Thankfully she won that argument.

OK, OK, she wins all the arguments. But at least I'm still allowed to give it a try every now and then. ;)

smd4
08-07-2002, 11:45 AM
I kind of resent being painted as a blinder-wearing, rose-colored-glasses-toting semi-retarded oaf who doesn't have the sense to ever generate a negative thought.

Even though no one directed any of their posts towards you personally, I guess you know how it feels now, having painted MJ as a clinically depressed paranoid cynic who's on his way to an early heart attack.


You need to look into antidepressants, mj. The world is not out to get you, life does not suck, and you're going to put yourself in an early grave if you can't break out of that cynical funk

Iceman
08-07-2002, 11:56 AM
No, he's painted himself that way with his posts. No rational person would look at the things I have to say and conclude that I am blind to the good, bad, or indifferent when it comes to Disney.

roberts1398
08-07-2002, 12:30 PM
Hear hear Marty! That's what it's all about...

The rest of you, I'm sorry, but the parent in me has this overwhelming urge to separate you to different rooms until you can be polite and respectful towards each other. You are bickering worse than grade-schoolers.

This isn't rocket science, and the world doesn't depend on convincing the other one you are right. Take a deep breath and chill a little, ok?????

malin
08-07-2002, 12:43 PM
Its nice to see everyone posting an opinion on something we all care about.Whether we all share the same opinion is another question.But I posted this thread not to turn it into another DLR bashing.But for everyone to look into the future and try and be just a bit positive.I know and can understand why so many people think Disney may mess up again.But I have a feeling that Disney are trying to turn things around.And I think we should show our support.Im not saying there won't be let downs and problems along the way.But at least there realise there are problems and from what I can gather are trying to work them out.

I belive the Pooh attraction will not be a cheap version of WDW.As WDW had the building,rooms and track all ready in place.DL are building this from scratchSo thats more money spent already.Yes I do miss the Bears but feel change is good.

I have huge hopes for the 50th.And from what I hear have no doubts it won't be a flop.

Im looking forward to seeing Fliks fair and TOT the Resorts biggest E Ticket attraction since Indy.Disney has come under fire about lack of recent attractions.Well I say to those people to visit Universal Studios.

The DLR deserves a chance to correct all the mistakes its made over the last few years.And its got my support.

smd4
08-07-2002, 01:02 PM
I agree, malin. I am hopeful for the future, too. And I hope that those in charge glance a little at the complaints on this board--they will give them very good and thorough ideas on where to start.

I know sometimes the criticisms are harsh. But if we dont push a little now and then, things might continue to slide. After all, it is the squeeky wheel that gets the oil.