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robpam
07-31-2002, 09:08 PM
Will be going to Disneyland in five days and would like to know what rides are currently giving out the extra fastpass. The ones where you can hold 2 passes at the same time. Both parks!

Uncle Dick
07-31-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by robpam
Will be going to Disneyland in five days and would like to know what rides are currently giving out the extra fastpass. The ones where you can hold 2 passes at the same time. Both parks!
Pirates, Haunted Mansion and Grizzly River Run.

stinkerbell
07-31-2002, 11:33 PM
I've seen this mentioned a time or three, but didn't pay attention. Exactly how does this work? And why? Please will someone give scenarios. Please please please......... I know it has something to do with certain rides being on different systems. Or is this a whole different thing? Please enlighten. :)

sydney
07-31-2002, 11:54 PM
it's really simple-- so simple i'd rather just explain it than find the thread from months ago where we all hashed this out in the first place.

basically what it boils down to-- without getting too technical, is that most fastpass tickets look like this:

----------------------------------
FASTPASS

Please return b/w

start time
&
end time

your next ticket will
be available after x:xx

----------------------------------

basically you get this ticket, and you then cannot get another ticket until the x:xx time, which is either the start time of your fastpass return time, or two hours after your fastpass distribution time (when you got it), which ever comes first.

now. the "freebie thing".
when you go to the park, look at the fastpass for pirates, for instance. it doesn't say "your next ticket will be available after..." that part is blank. so you can get another ticket (just not for that same ride. you will get an error stating you already have a ticket for this attraction).

So what do you do with this knowledge? Use it to keep yourself out of lines for almost the entire day. just think about the possibilties:

9:00 am. enter DL. get fastpasses for pirates, mansion, + one more attraction of your choice. ride the matterhorn, which has a shorter line in the morning and doesn't have fastpass.

10:00am DCA opens. enter DCA, get a fastpass for GRR + another ride of your choice (probably best to pick soarin' or screamin', as they have longer waits later). also notice that as hollywood isn't open til 11:30, they will be handing out fastpasses for the 12:00 millionaire and tickets to blast). by this time your first tickets at DL have matured and are ready for use. before using them, pick up another ticket.

You now can be holding somewhere between 5-8 tickets in your hand at once.

I know, this involves a lot of walking back and forth, and some planning, which some people can't stand. but I would rather end the day knowing I got my excersize than knowing I sat in line for hours. ;)

sydney
07-31-2002, 11:58 PM
just a quick follow up... remember, fastpasses claim to have an "end time" printed on them, but in actual practice are valid all day. so just make sure you have a supply of tickets on hand, and get to the rides when you feel like it. this helps your day feel less scheduled, but still with no lines. (for instance, you might have 3 valid fastpasses, some of which might have times that have already gone by, but don't let that stop you from enjoying a show or performance you happen across. your passes will still be good later on.)


so it wasn't quite as short of an explanation as I thought it would be, but hopefully this helps someone.

Sydney

stinkerbell
08-01-2002, 12:06 AM
Thank you, I have to say that was the most perfect reply. :) I've used fastpasses before, but just went by the rules printed in my little Disneyland Today thingy. Ugh, I'll use your method gladly, as I don't really like to stand in line. I like to move a lot. One of those who drive seventeen blocks out of the way, to avoid road construction traffic.......

Well, except that we'd get fastpasses for all 6 members of our group and combine these with switch passes, and well, went on Indy or whatever again and again in various combinations, since three members of our group were too young to ride some of the rides. My husband was the schemer of all of this, by the way. While I do not encourage or condone this behavior, it saved us a lot of time and energy. And being a Disney Dork with a major conscience, I would then stand in a long line, just to make myself feel better. Major sacrifice. :rolleyes: ;)

On my last visit with just my daughter, we did a lot of running to Splash, getting a fast pass, run to DCA ride Screamin several times (no line) run back to HM, get a fastpass, ride Splash, then Pirates, ride HM, etc. It was great. I like to ride in bulk. :)

Darkbeer
08-01-2002, 01:56 AM
OK, First off, let's talk about the different types of FastPasses that are available...

1.) "Networked" Fastpasses - There are TWO seperate Networks at the DLR, one in DL, and one in DCA....

In Disneyland, the following rides are networked

Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin
Indiana Jones Adventure
Splash Mountain
Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
Autopia
Space Mountain
Star Tours

At DCA, the networked attractions are

California Screamin'
Mulholland Madness
Muppet Vision 3D
Who Wants to be a Millionaire - Play It!
It's Tough to be a Bug!
Soarin' Over California


2.) Independent Machines

Pirates of the Caribbean (DL)
Haunted Mansion (DL)
Grizzly River Run (DCA)

3.) Cast Member Issued FP's

Hyperion Theater (BLAST!)
WWTBAM-PI (early show)
When the actual FP machines aren't working (you did not need to insert your passport to receive a FP)

4.) Walt Disney Travel Any Time Any Attraction FP's

These are issued when you buy Travel Packages, and are preissued, they have an experation date, but are good for a few weeks, and you can choose the time and the attraction.


So, our first problem is that we are talking about different type of FP's, and there is no easy way to tell the difference..

First off, the easiest thing to get rid of is the two worthless FP's... MuppetVision and ITTBAB, if you collect FP's great, grab one, but these shows never have a wait more than one showing, so you can just ignore these two rides.

The next thing, is if you have the Any time, Any Ride FP's, your best use of these are on Splash, and the GRR, one of the benefits of these rides is the ability to cool down in the middle of a hot day, so being able to pick your time of day is a great added benefit... the GRR tends to soak a lot of people, and after the sun sets, a lot less people want to have clothes that are soaking wet! If you are not a water ride person, use them for the rides that have the longest time between the time of issue and the starting time.

Also, the CM issued FP's are Freebies, since your passport was not used, there is no restriction to getting another FP.....

The independent machines are nice and simple, each of the three rides has it's own machine, and you can get ONE FP for each of the rides without affecting any other FP.....

PLEASE NOTE : All times are an example, and should not be a reflection of the time you really get on your FP

The system does require your passport, let's say it is 10 o'clock, the Pirates FP you get is for 11:15 am to 12:15 pm, HM is for 11:40 am to 12:40 pm, and then at 11 am you get a GRR FP good for 12:50 pm to 1:50 pm.... The system will Not allow you to get another FP until the Start time on the FP, so you could get another Pirates FP at 11:15 am, an HM at 11:40 am and a GRR at 12:50 pm....

One trick that is important is that the ending time is not important, the CM does check the start time and the date, but they have been told to be very flexable on the ending time, who knows why you have been delayed, you could have been stuck on another ride, etc.... so they almost always never say anything when you show up late with an FP...

The trick with the independent machines is to get a NEW FP prior to riding, for example, it is now 11:15 am, and you want to ride Pirates, before going in the FP line to ride, pick up another FP (the window is now open), and you will be given a new Pirates FP for 2:10 pm to 3:10 pm, this will allow you to come back later, after 2:10 pm for a second ride on Pirates, and get a third FP for Pirates later in the day.

So, what can I have, PRIOR to even accessing the "networked" machines...

Well, I can have a Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Grizzly River Run, plus picked up a BLAST! and a Noon WWTBAM-PI, plus one or two Travel Package FastPasses....

OK, now to talk about the "Networked" machines, you can have (in most cases) one DL and one DCA networked FP in addition to the above FP's...

Once you get a FP, you are not allowed another "networked" FP within the same park (either DL or DCA) until the earlier of these two events happen...

1. The time window on the FP becomes valid

2. Two hours have passed since receiving the FP

OK, lets look at some examples...

It is early in the day, and you go to get a Splash FP at 9:15 am, the FP issued to you is valid from 10:20 am to 11:20 am...

In this case, the next FP would be available at 10:20 am, and that would be the time printed on the bottom of the FP

But, lets say it is a bit later, say around 10:30 am, you get a Splash FP, but now it is good between 2:40 pm and 3:40 pm...

In this case, the next FP would be available at 12:30 pm. (Two hours after the FP was issued), and the bottom of the FP would state 12:30pm... there is one additional rule, you would NOT be allowed to get a Splash FP, you cannot get a new Splash FP until the window opens at 2:40 pm, but at 12:30 you could get an Autopia, Space Mtn., etc.....(any networked ride OTHER than Splash)

And one of the most important tricks to maximize your FP usage is to get a NEW FP prior to using the current active one, let's say at 11 AM you got an Indy FP good for 12:35 pm to 1:35 pm, at 12:30, I would head over to Big Thunder, and at 12:35, get a BTMR FP (say good for 2:50 pm to 3:50 pm), then ride Indy... at 2:35 pm (don't forget the two hour rule), I would pick up an Autopia FP, then ride BTMR.........

The easist way to figure out if you have a networked FP is to check the bottom of the FP, if it has a time stating when you can get you next FP, then it came from a networked machine, and you cannot get another network FP from the same park until the time stated

OK, so now you can have a Pirates, HM, GRR, BLAST!, plus one or two DL newtworked rides, and a DCA ride...

Another thing to think about is the Single Rider Passes available on Splash, Indiana Jones, Grizzly River Run, Soarin', Mulholland Madness, and Maliboomer. If you are willing to use Single Rider Passes (Which in most cases are quicker than FP's, with the exception of Soarin', which in many cases can have a longer wait than a FP)... you won't need to pick up FP's for these rides, and can use the FP's on other rides, such as Space Mountain and Autopia.

Right now, Splash, with its reduced capacity logs has the longest wait, so that would be my first priority (unless I planned to use the Single Rider Passes), in which case, Autopia and Space Mountain would be my first choices.

Are we confused yet....:confused:

Let me add this new twist.....

Now, they have changed the programming on the machines at WDW...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-cfbtourism29072902jul29.story?coll=orl%2Dbusiness% 2Dheadlines%2Dtourism

The way I read the article, now the computer can be adjusted by a senior cast member, and the "two hour" window can be adjusted downwards to as little as 45 minutes.... so the CM in charge can decide to lower the window to an 90 minute wait instead of two hours... or any number of minutes between 45 and 120 of his/her choosing...

So now we have some new problems, first off, you won't know the window until you obtain an FP and check the bottom of the ticket...

And when would you adjust the "window", on a busy day, you wouldn't want to lower it too much, otherwise you run out of FP's for all the rides...

On slow days, most FP's start times are less than two hours from the initial issue...

So when would this be a benefit.... the only one I can think of is when ONE or TWO rides are real popular, for example Splash, and all the other rides have a little wait time before the FP becomes valid... this way, a person getting a Splash FP doesn't have to wait two hours for another FP, when most of the rides have plenty of FP's available......

So is this change coming to the DLR, we will find out.....

So, think of the systems as DIFFERENT, and that there are FIVE sets of FP machines, Pirates, HM, GRR, the DL networked system, and the DCA networked system....by thinking in this manner should help you make the most use out of the FP system.....

If it hasn't driven you crazy (for me, it is time for a beer...):p

stinkerbell
08-01-2002, 01:07 PM
Thank you, too, DarkBeer. A great explanation and synopsis of the threads that gave me a headache. :)

Basically, I'll do what I did before--get a fastpass and before I ride, get another one. Plus use the independent machines like nobody's business.

Are all the rides on a two hour window now? When I was there in October and December, some were just 25-45 minutes, so we'd get a fastpass, go through stand-by and ride then walk back onto the ride with the fastpass. Of course, that's when it was really slow, crowd-wise. I hope they do this again in the fall. It was really great for us.

coronamouseman
08-01-2002, 05:53 PM
SB: So, just as many of us suspected - those using the "Babyswap" option abuse it mercilessly in various combinations to bypass the queues and ride again and again without waiting .............

Oh, the shame of it all, to exploit those little ones and the rest of the unsuspecting multitudes in the neverending standby lines ...............

Of course, the rest of us may not have to endure the screaming and the histrionics when the smaller ones find they can't ride Indy or Space Mt. or Splash Mt. .............. maybe it is fair trade.

stinkerbell
08-01-2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by coronamouseman
Of course, the rest of us may not have to endure the screaming and the histrionics when the smaller ones find they can't ride Indy or Space Mt. or Splash Mt. .............. maybe it is fair trade.

You are correct, sir! ;) We did abuse it this last trip, but only because we had three adults and three kids and it was a logistical nightmare trying to figure out the right combos to ride each ride, so that everyone was satisfied. I feel like we did abuse the system a bit. No one else felt bad but me. The one who really benefitted was my daughter who was six. Hmmm, somehow each ride combo included her. She really scored.

But on three previous trips, we didn't even use the switch passes at all.

It all evens out, my friends. It all evens out........

RideMax Mark
08-01-2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by stinkerbell
Are all the rides on a two hour window now? When I was there in October and December, some were just 25-45 minutes, so we'd get a fastpass, go through stand-by and ride then walk back onto the ride with the fastpass.

I think you're missing what the "two-hour window" refers to, which is that AT MOST, you will need to wait two hours before getting your next FP (for those "connected" to the system). You will still wait less than this if the "ride window" for your current FP is less than this.

So, for example, if I go right to Splash Mountain and get a FP as soon as the park opens at 8am, the return time will most likely be around 8:45am, and that is also the time at which I can get my next FP.

If I wait until noon to get the Splash FP, however, the return time might be 6 or 7 PM. Because the return time is more than two hours away, I could get my next FP at 2pm, and wouldn't need to wait until the ride window actually begins.

I hope this makes sense... !

cyeh
08-01-2002, 08:58 PM
I started reading MousePlanet in March in preparation for my first trip to Disneyland in a few years. Our last trip was in 1995, before the advent of FastPass.

As a general rule, I always visit Disneyland the third week of September during the weekdays to avoid the crowds. The off-summer-season visit coupled with the weekday often produced minimal wait times for even the E-Ticket attractions. In 1995, my then-not-yet wife and I went on Indy about 5 times in a row one day, waiting a measly 5 minutes between runs. We walked directly onto a boat at Pirates. We had a one elevator wait at the Haunted Mansion. It was simply wonderful.

Before that, I went in 1988 and 1989 during the same third week of September and remembering spending a maximum of 15 minutes in line anywhere in the park.

Our next trip is again scheduled for the third week of September from Tuesday through Friday, leaving us four days of Disneyland/DCA time. This time I'm bringing my wife, my 4 year old son, and my mother (that's grandma to my son).

The question I have is this:

Having never experienced Disneyland during the FastPass era, I would imagine it would be incredibly useful during the high-summer season and during the weekends when Disneyland is absolutely packed. But what about when we go down there in September? Are the standby lines going to be fast, or has FastPass turned into a requirement even on slow, lower attendance days? I enjoyed being able to walk by a ride, see no line, and hop on. Are those days over with FastPass? Has FastPass now become a "must have" to enjoy the park? We're going to have a 4 year old with us, and planning anything with a 4 year old is a major challenge. Should we expect to have to use FastPasses? Or will the lines be small enough where they wouldn't be necessary?

Thanks for offering any advice you can. The park has changed a lot since I was last there, so my sense of the queue dynamics is now completely invalid.

Kevin Yee
08-01-2002, 09:34 PM
A perceptive question.

Disneyland is changed forever. It is no longer possible to go from ride to ride with sponteneity and simply join the standby line. Well, it's possible, but you wouldn't want to waste that much time. You are "forced" by common sense to get FPs whenever possible.

Which is a shame.

coronamouseman
08-01-2002, 09:56 PM
I agree with you 100% Kevin. With the system in place, you are basically forced into using it otherwise you will stand in line all day and watch the throngs run by.

And as WDW is now changing the system again, it's like they don't ever want the guests to be able to figure out which rides have free fastpasses, which rides will allow you to get another FP in less than two hours and which ones will make you wait two hours to get another........... (see WDW thread)

FP is a great idea if it is used sparingly on low capacity or very popular rides - otherwise it makes you come back later to a line which should be less than 15-30 minutes without FP

sydney
08-02-2002, 12:00 AM
great ideas, everyone...

even after writtnig what i felt was an essay about fastpasses above, I couldn't believe how many fine points and big points I'd left out... shame on me... or rather on those who keep changing these rules over and over again.... ;)


As to the question of fastpasses on slow days, it's still a more positive riding experience when the park's empty, as your fastpasses seem more spontaneous as the return time is much much much sooner than during the summer. also, there are indeed much shorter standby times, so if you happen upon something you want to do for which you do not have a ticket, you should still go right ahead.

but yes, fastpass has made it "common sense" to just grab tickets for even faster ride waits. it has plusses and minuses, but I would never go back to the old way of doing things. again, that's just my opinion.

sydney
08-02-2002, 12:05 AM
the real shame is that most cast members can't keep up with the changes to FP as they happen. I only realized that GRR was now an independant FP from this thread. a couple months ago when Soarin' was switched back to the network, I went to Guest relations to ask why the switch had been made, and they had no idea what I was talking about. the cast member firmly insisted that never had you been able to have more than one fast pass. I think I was clearly an "annual passholder demanding the world on a plate" in her eyes, when in reality I wasn't actually asking for anything...

and of course there's no indication that GRR is now off the network.

Darkbeer
08-02-2002, 12:41 AM
Actually Sydney, there is, look at the bottom of the GRR FP, if there is no "Another FASTPASS ticket will be available after....."

The problem is, you have to use the machine to find out!:eek:

Kevin Yee
08-02-2002, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by sydney
the real shame is that most cast members can't keep up with the changes to FP as they happen. I only realized that GRR was now an independant FP from this thread.

I can't say I blame the CMs. The system is highly confusing, even to people who are there every day.

Imagine how confusing it is for the tourists, Disney's supposed target customers. Yet another reason that FP's permanence is a shame, in my opinion.

sydney
08-02-2002, 12:45 AM
darkbeer-- well, i realize that... I mean that really besides walking around and trying the machines, there's no indication to the majority of people who don't surf forums like this one.... before getting to the park.

but yes, you're absolutely right. it just seems like this makes the system harder to understand for most. Don't get me wrong, I exploit it as much as I can.

:D

sydney
08-02-2002, 12:46 AM
kevin--
I don't blame the cast-- I blame the lack of an information system to inform them of these changes. I should rephrase my comment--

The real shame is that cast members aren't notified of the changes as they happen so that they then can pass that info onto the guests.

:)

Darkbeer
08-02-2002, 01:34 AM
Look at my big post, first, with some editing, we could make it a bit smaller, but......even with all that explanation, I doubt if more than 75% of those who read it fully understand the system, and that is from a group of readers that have Disney knowledge....

The information I posted has been learned by trial and error, and a lot of knowledge posted by other people here on the boards... CM's don't need FP's, they know people, and can get to the front of the line by other means....so all they know is what has been taught to them.... I could easily make a three hour course (I teach Adult classes) on how to use FastPasses (and other time savers) to the best advantage at the DLR, and hopefully most folks (if they were paying attention) would understand the system... now, how can you expect most CM's to understand the system when all the know is the same as you see in the Guide to the magic Maps...

The current FP system is too complicated and needs to be simplified, but on the other hand, I like the fact that three rides have "independent" machines....

The vast majority of CM's do the best they can, but you can't expect them to be walking encyclopedias.

coronamouseman
08-02-2002, 06:02 AM
A system that is designed to benefit the customer should be simple and easy to use, not implemented randomly or changed daily in such a way as to make it difficult to comprehend or use.
More importantly, the problem is made even worse when information is not passed on to staff members who could help the customer understand the system and use it properly. One shouldn't have to keep up with chat groups in order to understand how to stand in line at an amusement park. Such arcane procedures should be limited to those areas of society where such things traditionally are found: the DMV and the IRS.

At Disneyland, if Fastpass were limited to Indy, Space Mt., Autopia, Roger Rabbit and Splash Mountain, the system would work fine. All of the other attractions involved are high-capacity and will normally have lines of 30 minutes or less. You could get at least two FPs (using the old 2-hr rule) during a park visit and thus you would only have to wait in one long standby line if you wanted to go on a minimum of three of those attractions.

If you really want to "balance" the lines at the atrractions, place information boards throughout the park informing guests of wait times and the current FP return ticket times at all attractons - then at least guests can have some idea whether to go elsewhere in the park or stay where they are to wait in line or grab an FP.

cyeh
08-02-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Kevin Yee
A perceptive question.

Disneyland is changed forever. It is no longer possible to go from ride to ride with sponteneity and simply join the standby line. Well, it's possible, but you wouldn't want to waste that much time. You are "forced" by common sense to get FPs whenever possible.

Which is a shame.

So I guessed correctly then: FastPass has become a requirement to enjoy your stay at Disneyland.

Having read all of the posts about maximizing your FastPass usage, I honestly wonder if causing guests to micromanage their time in the park translates to a relaxing experience.

It used to be that you could approach the park with a certain amount of zen and relaxation. You look at the line and decide to wait or keep going. If you wait, the line is what it is and you trudge forward in a hopefully amusing queue area. The wait was what it was. If the line was too long you wandered around the park and saw something else. I'm still convinced that I would not have ever gone into Mission to Mars if the line at Space Mountain wasn't so long.

This is more of a nostalgic rant than anything else, but I preferred the relaxing spontaneity that I used to approach the park. Now I'm going to experience the park with the stress of having to keep FastPass appointments throughout the day. With a 4 year old in tow.

Ugh.

stinkerbell
08-02-2002, 08:14 AM
Thanks Ride Max......I haven't had to use the FP, when the wait was more than two hours, that's why the confusion.

When I took my six year old in early Dec., we walked onto most rides, with no FP and no wait. Granted, it was during the week in early Dec., but still, no need for FP. We got FP's for waits longer than 25 minutes, and that was on a Sat. We went on Pirates like three times in a row, Indy over and over again, same with Splash and HM and Space. Just walked into Blue Bayou for lunch. No waits, just kept walking from the exit to the entrance. Once on Space, they let us stay on. Same with Screamin. So I think it's still possible to enjoy that spontaneous no line ride, even without the FP. In Sept., it's a little more crowded. I've been then too, but I think you'll find that riding can still be spontaneous. It's not that much of a hassle, esp. if you're there for just a few days. :) Enjoy your trip!!!! You'll have a wonderful time taking a four year old!