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mousketeer
07-27-2002, 09:02 PM
Please stop complaining about everyting at DCA. I know it is a dissapointment in contrast to other Disney parks, but you must admit, Disny did a hell of a job on DCA, considering the very tight budget. I know I would like a lot of theming changes done, but there is no way Disney will complete;y re-theme an entire theme park. The cost would be astrinomical. I know, it's no EPCOT, but it isn't that bad. Disney did a fabulous job on Soarin, Screami'n, Golden Dreams, and Grizly River Rapids. There were a few poor rides, like Superstar Limo and Mullholland Madness, and the factories are pretty cheezy, but is that enough to completely dislike a theme park? I guarentee that in a few years, Disney will have worked out all the kinks and ratings will be up. Disney did the same with EPCOT. Both EPCOT and MGM had slow attendance at the beginning, but it picked up as soon as some adjutments were made. Now, if DCA is still mediocre in five years, then we know Disney is in deep TROUBLE.

Lani
07-27-2002, 09:17 PM
One thing I will admit to is that I really like what Disney did as part of its revamp to turn what was just one park, into a large resort. I think they have a hit with Downtown Disney, and the whole thing is now a destination, even if you don't go into the parks.

...I don't despise DCA. Parts of it, I like a lot.

merlinjones
07-27-2002, 09:18 PM
>>Please stop complaining about everyting at DCA.<<

Sorry, It's important to carry the torch for Walt and company... and the consumers who expect only the best from that brand name.

>>I know it is a dissapointment in contrast to other Disney parks, <<

Yes, it is.

>>but you must admit, Disny did a hell of a job on DCA, considering the very tight budget. <<

Yes, it does look like hell.

>>I know I would like a lot of theming changes done,<<

Me too.

>>but there is no way Disney will complete;y re-theme an entire theme park. The cost would be astrinomical. <<

I know. That's why it was such a waste of a rare opportunity. Very sad.

>>I know, it's no EPCOT, but it isn't that bad.<<

Neither is herpes.

>>Disney did a fabulous job on Soarin, Screami'n, Golden Dreams, and Grizly River Rapids.<<

Soarin is good, Screamin is okay at best, Golden Dreams is objectionable reactionary propoganda, Grizzly was not laid out so you could have a good view of the landscaping and theming except from the priciest windows of the hotel. Shockingly elitist planning.

>>There were a few poor rides, like Superstar Limo and Mullholland Madness, and the factories are pretty cheezy, but is that enough to completely dislike a theme park? <<

No. Those are the worst rides of all time, but the general cheesiness of the park is worse than the parts.

>>I guarentee that in a few years, Disney will have worked out all the kinks and ratings will be up. Disney did the same with EPCOT. Both EPCOT and MGM had slow attendance at the beginning, but it picked up as soon as some adjutments were made. Now, if DCA is still mediocre in five years, then we know Disney is in deep TROUBLE.<<

How can they work out all the kinks, since you say yourself they can't afford to redo the place?

At least Epcot and MGM were attractive to start with.

I don't believe DCA's five year plan has anything that will change my mind (having seen two of those years go by already). TOT? Okay, but so what?

HBTiggerFan
07-27-2002, 09:21 PM
Those who dislike it will continue to complain. Those who like will continue to not complain. So dispite your request its not gonna happen.

Kuzcotopia
07-27-2002, 09:39 PM
I've seen much more done with less than DCA's budget and talent pool.

I think it's better than a parking lot. It's a fun place to beat the crowds at Disneyland.

But I've been to better shopping malls with better rides. Even the SAME rides! That's bad.

Free with an annual pass? Good value. Park hopper, still a good value.

$43? Rip off.

ChipmunkStar
07-27-2002, 09:54 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAH! The Worms! The Worms!

The can hath been opened!


:)

MonorailMan
07-27-2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by mousketeer
Please stop complaining about everyting at DCA.
Me Complain? Nah.... ;)

I know it is a dissapointment in contrast to other Disney parks, but you must admit, Disny did a hell of a job on DCA, considering the very tight budget.
My Question: Why was the budget so low to begin with, can one say "Penny Pincher"?

I know I would like a lot of theming changes done, but there is no way Disney will complete;y re-theme an entire theme park. The cost would be astrinomical. I know, it's no EPCOT, but it isn't that bad. Disney did a fabulous job on Soarin, Screami'n, Golden Dreams, and Grizly River Rapids.
Soarin-Yes Screamin-Maybe Golden Dreams-No, not what it turned out to be. GRR-Yes, but again, no "Disney Magic", just another raft ride with theaming.

There were a few poor rides, like Superstar Limo and Mullholland Madness, and the factories are pretty cheezy, but is that enough to completely dislike a theme park?
I like MM and SSL, and that tortilla sample is yummie.

I guarentee that in a few years, Disney will have worked out all the kinks and ratings will be up. Disney did the same with EPCOT. Both EPCOT and MGM had slow attendance at the beginning, but it picked up as soon as some adjutments were made. Now, if DCA is still mediocre in five years, then we know Disney is in deep TROUBLE.

Right, both Epcot, and MGM were low, but most people that go to WDW have hoppers, not so at DLR, most people are here for a day. If a average guest thinks, "Which should I pick, a park I know and love, or this new thing that I've heard not so good things about?" The choice is clear.

Tigertail777
07-27-2002, 11:36 PM
( Must refrain sarchastic fingers of death.... errrr oooo aaaaa!!!)

OK I'll try not to be mean here, but both mgm and epcot had their theming and layout done right to begin with, so alls they needed was rides to be dropped in and it was OK. BUT DCA's theming is on par with hmmm magic mountain (OK OK its a little better, but not much). Disney has always meant to me that there are little details everywhere you look, and so much of them that you can not see them even after something like 20 visits, DCA's you can see practically everything it has to offer in one visit. Its not the number of attractions that really matter, so much as the intricate detail within one attraction---at Disneyland most of hte rides you could remove from the park, and still be happy to ride it over and over.. just one ride but it has so much detail you can keep riding and seeing new things (pirates, HM, Indy,splash etc.). But with DCA if any one ride was removed from its element would you want to ride it over and over and over? I could maybe say that with soarin IF the que line theming and interior was better done (right now it has all the charm of a costco warehouse, with little blue lights in the floor).
Some of the rides LOOK beautiful, but are just ordinary carny rides with pretty exteriors: great to lok at and take pics of, but if I want that kind of thing (thrill ride) I will go to Magic Mountain where they do it better. There are some little details I do like about DCA (the trail that looks like an old highway, the mountain for GRR, the big california letters out front (but not the mosiac stuff behind it), the sun thing with the wave fountain, all of the water features of the park, the animation building, especially the lobby and beasts library. I think it can be salvaged and made into a great park, perhaps even with the california theme (if they focus more on the history/past), but it will need tons of dough dumped into it, and if they were not willing the first time, I doubt they will be the second... current Disney management usually takes a huge learning curve to figure things out that should be obvious. But I will be slightly hopeful/optimistic and end this by saying its not entirely out of the realm of possibility... they just might pony up the dough and make it great (hoping/wishing with fingers crossed and bated breath).

Morrigoon
07-27-2002, 11:47 PM
I'm sorry but I've never thought much of MGM. Yes it looks great, but it's still too small to entertain you for a whole day. Also, it has no "magic little spots" like DL does (the wishing well, for example). Wherever you go it's either a shop or an attraction, and there aren't a great many of those at all. MGM is a half day park. So's DCA, but MGM, I grant you, looks better.

That said, DCA does have its good parts. The area around GRR is pleasant (albeit fairly devoid of things to do besides the raft ride). The main "street" part of the Hollywood area is nice enough. But PP, the back part of Hollywood, and basically everything else is a bore. A single attraction, two stores and a restaurant does not constitute a land in my opinion. (No, critter country wasn't much of a land either, but at least it used to have 2 attractions to call its own!)

Nigel2
07-27-2002, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
I'm sorry but I've never thought much of MGM. Yes it looks great, but it's still too small to entertain you for a whole day. Also, it has no "magic little spots" like DL does (the wishing well, for example). Wherever you go it's either a shop or an attraction, and there aren't a great many of those at all. MGM is a half day park. So's DCA, but MGM, I grant you, looks better.

Yeah, MGM is like a 1/2 day thing.
What about that umbrela fountain (I think they have one there as well as in Paris) that does the Singing in the rain thing if you turn it on?:D

Wow no ref to DA from you.:D

Tigertail777
07-28-2002, 12:33 AM
OK I agree with you mgm has no little out of the way areas like snow whites wishing well, and it is still a half day park. BUT it does have one incredibly detailed/fun ride that if removed from the park could be ridden over and over (TOT), a ride so popular that it has its own fan websites... I have yet to see a soarin or GRR website, or fans drooling over every little detail at any ride at DCA. You have to admit, MGM is nicely laid out, easy to navigate, and has plenty of good theming and landscaping....a bare bones park that looks beautiful and has at least a few top notch attractions. This is what DCA on its crappy budget should have been, but DCA is a downgraded version of MGM... even MGM has its own fireworks show for crying out loud, and a matter of taste, but I would say at least 3 topnotch attractions: TOT, great movie ride, and Rockin Rollercoaster. Plus now that I think about it, it does have a few semi out of the way places that are nice: the area with all of the bronze movie star busts including Walts. And MGM has a nice full show to watch: Indy stunt show. I found lots of little details At mgm that were magical: the coke vending area (including the coke stand by indy-nice theming), all of those classic cars parked on sunset blvd., the whole drive in theatre restaurant was very cool, etc etc for me all of these little details added up to magic, even if it was a half day park, it was a MAGICAL half day park... I didn't feel that way about DCA.

Nigel2
07-28-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Tigertail777
even MGM has its own fireworks show for crying out loud,

Well there was Luminaria, a fireworks show in the same sense (I am not going into the quality of it) that Illuminations is a fireworks show. :)

Darkbeer
07-28-2002, 01:20 AM
The DCA budget, oh my, let's compare it to another MAJOR expense the parks have, the boss, Michael Eisner...

http://www.forbes.com/2001/04/26/eisner.html




During the last five years, Eisner, 59, made $737 million. That's about 19 times the $38 million made by the average CEO on Forbes.com's First Annual CEO Value Survey. And while Eisner's personal income grew during that time, Disney's five-year net income shrank an average of 3.1% yearly. The average company included in the survey grew its net income by 19% over the five-year period.



So, that is a little less than all of DCA's budget (The actual number is hard to find, since most numbers include the costs of the Grand Californian and Downtown Disney (MP reports the total number at $1.4 billion), I have seen guesses between $800 to $900 million,and it took about 5 years to build DCA, think about it, Michael's salary was about the same as the entire DCA budget!!!!!!! Wow, how much better could DCA have been is Michael made closer to the average CEO salary, and they diverted the money to DCA's budget.... and how much more money they would be making right now in additional gate receipts and higher in-park spending!!!!!

Disney Crone/Kid
07-28-2002, 09:06 AM
It's easy for me to be nice about DCA. I am after all one of its appreciators. Grateful for its numerous positive aspects, I've written about them here (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=121593#post121593).

There's nice. There's "nice" of the fakey, just-to-be-polite kind. And there's nice of the thorn-ey variety.

I'm grateful to those who can see the shortcomings of DCA that I can't and who are articulate enough to share them with me/us. I listen -- really listen -- to what they have to say. Those who are not enamored are exactly the kind of folks to whom Mr. Disney kept an open ear. He was secure enough to listen to what his guests liked and did not like, and improved his original park based on constructive feedback, for and against, alike.

Mr. Disney chose not to become the emperor with no clothes. He wandered the parks and observed the reactions of his guests, and at times eavesdropping on them. A good number were not raves, and he acted on them.

I find "anti-DCA" perspectives, including those of merlin jones', Al Lutz', Monorail Man's, and other thinking contributors', as valuable as the "pro-DCA" ones. Their sentiments, sometimes impassioned and fiery, I find fascinating, often rivetting, and well worth pondering over. I feel their caring, and I find it heartwarming that they care. Really care to take the time and make the effort to put their feelings into words.

I think of them as being (truly) nice, but of the thorn-ey variety. Their well-ruminated thoughts may well contribute to making DCA the improved park it can be. Who knows -- there may be an Eisner successor, who one day will walk in Mr. Disney's footsteps, who at this moment is taking this all in, listening to and assimilating ALL manner of feedback, waiting patiently for her/his turn at the helm.

These days, eavesdropping a la Disney is easy. It's called lurking. With the SEARCH feature, it is even more easily accomplished.

As in life, there are those who simply do not tolerate thorns well. And that's okay too. I was once inclined to be of that sensibility, too. When things get too thorn-ey for the individual reader, it's so much easier here than in life to tune out. Just click on the next message or thread and move on. Click! THAT easy.

Myself, the older I get, the more I like the roses -- thorns and all. They -- curmudgeons, included -- make me think, often leading me to higher aspirations. Their emotions are real, and they are being expressed.

So to you, I say WRITE ON! I choose to be as optimistic as Mr. Disney. Perhaps your very thoughts are being mentally filed by someone who will put them to use for the greater good in the near future.

Ya never know! It all started with a mouse ... and a genius who listened to the pros... and cons.

merlinjones
07-28-2002, 09:20 AM
Maholo to Disney/Crone Kid for an enlightened spriit, and understanding what some of us are trying to acheive with our detailed criticism.

Gemini Cricket
07-28-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Maholo to Disney/Crone Kid for an enlightened spriit
Mahalo. :) :D

merlinjones
07-28-2002, 10:50 AM
>>"Maholo"<<

Geez... defintely a typo... Sounds like a Beavis and Butthead pun. Book 'em, Dano.

Mahalo!