PDA

View Full Version : What if there was the "old" coupon system in place today



Darkbeer
07-22-2002, 03:23 AM
OK, if we are going to talk "tickets", we have to understand that the system basically is designed to rank the attractions into values, the original decisions mainly looked at the cost of the attraction, the length of the experience and the popularity of the attraction with the guests. Certain attractions sponsored by firms had "free" tickets available in the ticket books (I can think of Mr. Lincoln, Carousel of Progress and Adventure thru Inner Space as big attractions that at one time were free)

SO, you need a spread of some "A" attractions, "B" attractions, "C" attractions, "D" attractions and of course "E" attractions...

I am going to base my own PERSONAL ratings based on the original system, with the understanding that some rides would be lowered, just like they did when tickets were available (Country Bear started as an "E", and was lowered to a "D"....

Here are some resources...

http://www.yesterland.com

http://www.perrific.com/disney/tickets/tickets.html

OK, using the list in the current Guide to the Magic...

DISNEYLAND...

MAIN STREET USA

Disneyland Railroad - "D" (Still one of the most popular rides, keeps rating from the 70's)

Main Street Cinema - "A"

Main Street Vehicles - "A"
(one ticket per each one way trip on any of the four vehicles)

The Walt Disney Story featuring "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" - "Free" ticket with the purchase of any ticket book - hopefully sponsored, but to help drive folks to see a piece of history, just like they did in the 70's

MICKEY'S TOONTOWN

Chip 'n Dale Treehouse - "A"

Donald's Boat - "A"

Gadget's Go Coaster - "D"

Goofy's Bounce House - "B"

Jolly Trolley - "A"

Mickey's House - "C" (Due to interaction with Mickey)

Minnie's House - "B" (Due to the LACK of interaction)

Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin - "E"

ADVENTURELAND

Enchanted Tiki Room - "D"

Indiana Jones Adventure - "E"

Jungle Cruise - "D"

Tarzan's Treehouse - "B"

NEW ORLEANS SQUARE

Haunted Mansion - "E"

Pirates of the Caribbean - "E"

The Disney Gallery - Free (not an attraction IMHO, but a shop)

CRITTER COUNTRY

Splash Mountain - "E"

Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes - "D"

Teddi Barra's Swingin' Arcade - Once again, not an attraction, but an arcade that takes quarters

The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - "C" (to match the other dark rides in Fantasyland, would be higher if they built the TDL Pooh's Hunny Hunt instead)

FRONTIERLAND

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - "E"

Fantasmic! - Once again, NOT an attraction, but an entertainment show, free with admission

Frontierland Shootin' Exposition - "C"

Mark Twain Steamboat - "D"

Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island - "B" (With current closures)

Sailing Ship Columbia - "D"

The Golden Horseshoe Stage - Free, once again entertainment, just like they treated it since the park opened

TOMMORROWLAND

Astro Orbitor - "C"

Autopia - either a "C" or a Free due to sponsorship

Monorail - "D"

Honey, I Shrunk the Audience - "D" or Free due to sponsorship

Innoventions - Free exhibit

Space Mountain - "E"

Starcade - Once again, not an attraction, but an arcade that takes quarters

Star Tours - "D"

The American Space Experience - Free Exhibit

FANTASYLAND

Alice in Wonderland - "B"

Casey Jr. Circus Train - "B"

Dumbo the Flying Elephant - "C"

Fantasyland Theater - Free, Once again, Entertainment, not an attraction

it's a small world - "E" (maybe a "D", due to reduction of waiting time)

King Arthur's Carrousel - "A"

Sleeping Beauty's Castle Walkthrough - "A"

Mad Tea Party - "C"

Matterhorn Bobsleds - "E"

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride - "C"

Peter Pan's Flight - "C"

Pinocchio's Daring Journey - "B"

Snow White's Scary Adventures - "B"

Storybook Land Canal Boats - "C"

DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE

PARADISE PIER

California Screamin' - "E"

Games of the Boardwalk - Once again, not an attraction, but arcade games with a fee

Golden Zepher - "B"

Jumpin Jellyfish - "B"

King Triton's Carousel - "A"

Maliboomer - "C"

Mulholland Madness - "C"

Orange Stinger - "B"

S.S. rustworthy - "A"

Sun Wheel - "C"

HOLLYWOOD PICTURES BACKLOT

Disney Animation - "D"

Hyperion Theater - FREE - Once again, not an attraction, entertainment was included in the general admission price back when there was "tickets/coupons"

Jm Henson's Muppet Vision 3D - "D"

Superstar Limo - "C" (Heck, all the Fantasyland dark rides were either "B" or "C" coupons)

The Hollywood Backlot Stage - Once again, an venue, not an attraction!

Who Wants to Be A Millionaire - Play It! - "E" (due to the interaction that the guests have, not truly entertainment, but could be justified as free entertainment)

GOLDEN STATE

Golden Dreams - "C"

Bountiful Valley Farm - once again, not an attraction, but an area

It's Tough to be a Bug! - "D"

Soarin' Over California - "D"

Seasons of the Vine - Free show

Grizzly River Run - "E"

Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - "D" (Matches the old Tom Sawyer Island rating)

Mission Tortilla Factory - Free exhibit

The Boudin Bakery - Free exhibit

OK, so let's look at what we have in different coupons....

DISNEYLAND

"A" - 10

"B" - 8

"C" - 10

"D" - 8

"E" - 9

Total amount of attraction that would have had coupons - 45

DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE

"A" - 2

"B" - 3

"C" - 5

"D" - 5

"E" - 3 (or 2)

Total amount of attractions that would have had coupons - 17 or 18

OK, so if we used the "old" system, DCA has only 40% of the attractions that DL has, and if you got coupon books and an admission ticket to the parks, than the majority of the time you would spend at DL (Which matches the current attendance trends, with DL getting about 3/4th of the total resort attendance per day)... So let's take these numbers and compare it to the current system.. 40% of $45 is $18... and right now the cost of a discounted DCA ticket is $14 (per the add on for a one-day ParkHopper), or $17.50 (SoCal Buy a Adult at the Child's price, get a child free), or $10 or free for a year's attendance (based on the lowering of the two-park AP price), or the additional day(s) free if you buy a travel package....

JeffG
07-22-2002, 10:15 AM
This is always an interesting exercise, since it amounts to setting a price for each attraction. It is important to keep in mind that the tickets were primarily measures of what people are likely to be willing to pay for an attraction, not a measure of quality.

It is easy to let personal preferences cloud judgement here, which I think the first post in this thread did a few times (particularly overrating "Tiki Room" and "Jungle Cruise" and underrating "Soarin' Over California). Of course, I can't guarantee that I can completely avoid that either... :)

Here are my guesses:


DISNEYLAND...

MAIN STREET USA

Disneyland Railroad - C

Main Street Cinema - A

Main Street Vehicles - A

The Walt Disney Story featuring "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" - Probably would include give 1 free visit per ticket book out of tradition. Likely a B ticket for additional viewings.

MICKEY'S TOONTOWN

Chip 'n Dale Treehouse - A
Donald's Boat - A

Gadget's Go Coaster - D

Goofy's Bounce House - B

Jolly Trolley - A

Mickey's House - C

Minnie's House - C

Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin - D

ADVENTURELAND

Enchanted Tiki Room - B (it just isn't that popular any more)

Indiana Jones Adventure - E

Jungle Cruise - C

Tarzan's Treehouse - B

NEW ORLEANS SQUARE

Haunted Mansion - D (raised to E for holiday version)

Pirates of the Caribbean - E

The Disney Gallery - A

CRITTER COUNTRY

Splash Mountain - E

Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes - B

Teddi Barra's Swingin' Arcade - Pay per play
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - Hard to predict prior to opening, but probably D or E at least initially.

FRONTIERLAND

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - E

Fantasmic! - Probably impossible to charge for this.

Frontierland Shootin' Exposition - Pay per play

Mark Twain Steamboat - C

Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island - B

Sailing Ship Columbia - C

The Golden Horseshoe Stage - B

TOMMORROWLAND

Astro Orbitor - C

Autopia - D

Monorail - C (probably free for hotel guests)

Honey, I Shrunk the Audience - D

Innoventions - B

Space Mountain - E

Starcade - Pay per play

Star Tours - E

The American Space Experience - Free

FANTASYLAND

Alice in Wonderland - C

Casey Jr. Circus Train - B

Dumbo the Flying Elephant - D

Fantasyland Theater - Free

it's a small world - D (raised to E for holiday version)

King Arthur's Carrousel - A

Sleeping Beauty's Castle Walkthrough - A

Mad Tea Party - C

Matterhorn Bobsleds - E

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride - C

Peter Pan's Flight - C

Pinocchio's Daring Journey - B

Snow White's Scary Adventures - B

Storybook Land Canal Boats - C

DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE

PARADISE PIER

California Screamin' - E

Games of the Boardwalk - Pay per play

Golden Zepher - B

Jumpin Jellyfish - B

King Triton's Carousel - A

Maliboomer - D

Mulholland Madness - D

Orange Stinger - C

S.S. rustworthy - A

Sun Wheel - D

HOLLYWOOD PICTURES BACKLOT

Disney Animation - B (possibly free entry and one ticket per show)

Hyperion Theater - Ticket price may vary depending on what is showing. Probably usually B or C.

Jim Henson's Muppet Vision 3D - D

Superstar Limo - C

The Hollywood Backlot Stage - Free

Who Wants to Be A Millionaire - Play It! - D

GOLDEN STATE

Golden Dreams - Probably 1 free showing per ticket book like "Lincoln" with A or B for second viewing.

It's Tough to be a Bug! - D

Soarin' Over California - E

Seasons of the Vine - A

Grizzly River Run - E

Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - B

Mission Tortilla Factory - Free

The Boudin Bakery - Free


-Jeff

hbquikcomjamesl
07-22-2002, 12:09 PM
Yes, it is an interesting exercise. I'd be inclined to go with Darkbeer's scheme, except that I'd make Soarin' an E, Maliboomer a D, allow A and B (and maybe C) tickets to be used for the PP games (which one depends on the games; as I recall, A tickets could be used in the shooting galleries, way back when)

SuperStar Lemon wouldn't cost anything. While I thought at least some of the in-jokes (like the allusion to Madame Leota) were funny, it's still a weak attraction.

Also, some of the more popular sub-attractions in Innoventions, the ones that actually have queues (like that virtual reality car thing, that's got the mini-crash-test-dummy-barker entertaining the people in the queue, what's it called; I've never actually tried it) could take a B or C ticket just to keep the queue under control.

Darkbeer
07-22-2002, 01:40 PM
Ok, first off, I tried to keep the values I came up with related to the original values that were used until the early 80's, my main source was the list on yesterland.com, to hb...james, While I enjoy Soarin', many people have stated that Soarin' was never meant to be an "E" attraction, but became as popular as it is due to the lack of other "E" attractions that were designed for the entire family (Unlike Screamin' and GRR, which some members of the family can't or won't ride)... I also had a couple of more "D" coupons in my first draft, but lowered a couple of them to have a better "mix" of attractions (A thru E)...

As for SSL, I personally would love to see it torn down, but I was trying to give the ride a rating that Disney would have assigned the ride prior to opening the park last January.

OK, JeffG has posted some different values, let's compare then and see why I rated the attractions differently...

DISNEYLAND...

MAIN STREET USA

Disneyland Railroad - "D" JeffG gave it a "C" - The coupon need for the Railroad in the early 80's was a "D", and the railroad is still one of the most popular attractions in the park (Many days it is the attraction with the highest attendance!!!)

Main Street Cinema - "A"

Main Street Vehicles - "A"
(one ticket per each one way trip on any of the four vehicles)

The Walt Disney Story featuring "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" - "Free" ticket with the purchase of any ticket book - hopefully sponsored, but to help drive folks to see a piece of history, just like they did in the 70's

MICKEY'S TOONTOWN

Chip 'n Dale Treehouse - "A"

Donald's Boat - "A"

Gadget's Go Coaster - "D"

Goofy's Bounce House - "B"

Jolly Trolley - "A"

Mickey's House - "C" (Due to interaction with Mickey)

Minnie's House - "B" JeffG gave it a "C" - once again, Mickey's house has the Meet and Greet that Minnie doesn't, and while we want to treat both mouses the same, Mickey's house has a much bigger experence

Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin - "E" JeffG gave it a "D" - I probably gave it too high of a rating - so I agree with JeffG on this one, maybe even only a "C" ticket based on the Fantasyland dark ride ratings from the early 80's

ADVENTURELAND

Enchanted Tiki Room - "D" JeffG gave it a "B", and while this show doesn't have the popularity it once has (It used to be a "E" coupon), and I lowered it to a "D for that reason, it is still a long experence with multiple AA's, I still feel it is worth the "D"

Indiana Jones Adventure - "E"

Jungle Cruise - "D" JeffG gives it a "C", once again another former "E" ticket, I was tempted to leave it an "E", but decided that due to the age of the attractin, knocking it down to a "D" similar to what Disney did with the Country Bears

Tarzan's Treehouse - "B"

NEW ORLEANS SQUARE

Haunted Mansion - "E" JeffG gave it an "D", this ride has a high capacity and the stand-by line still can be fairly long in summer, it was originally an "E", and while I feel that a couple of "E"'s needed to be lowered (Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise), this ride still is worthy of the "E" ticket

Pirates of the Caribbean - "E"

The Disney Gallery - Free (not an attraction IMHO, but a shop) JeffG gave it an "A" - when it first opened I would agree with Jeff, but this last showing has totally converted this place to a shop, and stores don't need tickets, the park wants guests to buy stuff

CRITTER COUNTRY

Splash Mountain - "E"

Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes - "D" JeffG gave it an "B", the original rating was a "D", and while I thought about lowering it to a "C", the canoes seem to always have a wait, so what is the need to lower the value

Teddi Barra's Swingin' Arcade - Once again, not an attraction, but an arcade that takes quarters

The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - "C" (to match the other dark rides in Fantasyland, would be higher if they built the TDL Pooh's Hunny Hunt instead) - JeffG gave it an "D or E", I based my rating using the WDW version of the ride, which is basically a Fantasyland Dark ride

FRONTIERLAND

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - "E"

Fantasmic! - Once again, NOT an attraction, but an entertainment show, free with admission

Frontierland Shootin' Exposition - "C" JeffG gave it an "pay per play", the original Shootin' Galleries (Both at Fronterland and Adventureland) were "C" tickets at one point, and I stuck with the original value

Mark Twain Steamboat - "D" JeffG gave it an "C", I stuck with the original value of the ride, it is still very popular, and don't forget that you need a variety of tickets, and if you lower to many "D" rides, you won't have any "D"'s left.

Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island - "B" (With current closures)

Sailing Ship Columbia - "D" JeffG gave it an "C", same reasons as I mentioned with the Mark Twain

The Golden Horseshoe Stage - Free, once again entertainment, just like they treated it since the park opened - JeffG gave it an "B" - The value of the early 80's had this attraction as free (as mentioned it was entertainment, which was included in the GA ticket), plus this stage was sponsored - plus creates food sales

TOMMORROWLAND

Astro Orbitor - "C"

Autopia - either a "C" or a Free due to sponsorship JeffG gave it an "D" - Once again, the original value of the ride from the early 80's was a "C"

Monorail - "D" JeffG gave it an "C" - This was an "E" ticket in the early 80's, but I lowered it to a "D" to keep it the same value as the Railroad, I wouldn't go lower

Honey, I Shrunk the Audience - "D" or Free due to sponsorship

Innoventions - Free exhibit JeffG gave it an "B" - If you look back at history, all the "product" plugged attractions (CoP, Inner Space, The House of the Future, etc...) were free, the sponsors of the attraction want as many people to see their product plugs, no way would they charge a ticket for this "commercial"

Space Mountain - "E"

Starcade - Once again, not an attraction, but an arcade that takes quarters

Star Tours - "D" JeffG gave it an "E", I was torn, this ride is similar to Jungle Cruise and Tiki Room, attractions that were "E"'s, but have lost popularity, I was on the fence between a "D" and an "E", but decided that it fell in the same catagory as Tiki and JC, plus it keeps the attraction mix numbers at a good level (Having enough "D" attractions)

The American Space Experience - Free Exhibit

FANTASYLAND

Alice in Wonderland - "B" JeffG gave it an "C", Once again, I gave it the value it had in the early 80's, no reason to raise it, keeps the attraction mix at a good level

Casey Jr. Circus Train - "B"

Dumbo the Flying Elephant - "C" JeffG gave it an "D" - Another attraction that I used the value that Disney had in the early 80's

Fantasyland Theater - Free, Once again, Entertainment, not an attraction

it's a small world - "E" (maybe a "D", due to reduction of waiting time) JeffG gave it an "D" - Another one of the original "E" attractions (Tiki, JC and Star Tours), this is a high volume ride that is popular, and it would be hard to switch values on this and HM with the Holiday version (The ticket says "iasw" on it) so decided to keep it an "E"

King Arthur's Carrousel - "A"

Sleeping Beauty's Castle Walkthrough - "A"

Mad Tea Party - "C"

Matterhorn Bobsleds - "E"

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride - "C"

Peter Pan's Flight - "C"

Pinocchio's Daring Journey - "B"

Snow White's Scary Adventures - "B"

Storybook Land Canal Boats - "C"

DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE

PARADISE PIER

California Screamin' - "E"

Games of the Boardwalk - Once again, not an attraction, but arcade games with a fee

Golden Zepher - "B"

Jumpin Jellyfish - "B"

King Triton's Carousel - "A"

Maliboomer - "C" JeffG gave it an "D" - I had this as an "D" originally, but ended up with too many "D" attractions, so decided to lower this to a "C" to be equal to the Astro Orbitor (Similar ride time)

Mulholland Madness - "C" JeffG gave it an " D" - Same reasons as the Maliboomer

Orange Stinger - "B" JeffG gave it an "C" - Another ride that is partially rated to keep a good attraction mix, similar in value to the Zepher and Jellyfish, and they are both "B"'s in both my and Jeff's ratings

S.S. rustworthy - "A"

Sun Wheel - "C" - JeffG gave it an "D" - Once again, another attraction that was between a "C" and a "D", but to keep the mix of attractions at a proper level, need to have "C" value

HOLLYWOOD PICTURES BACKLOT

Disney Animation - "D" JeffG gave it an "B and maybe charge for each part" This attraction deserves to be kept as a whole, and is worth the "D", especially with the variety and the workshop.

Hyperion Theater - FREE - Once again, not an attraction, entertainment was included in the general admission price back when there was "tickets/coupons". JeffG gave it an "B or C", heck, BLAST! would be worth an "E" ticket, but the policy that was set up by Disney for the first 30 years was that the entertainment shows were part of the General Admission price, and I was trying to give values as if the original system never went away.

Jm Henson's Muppet Vision 3D - "D"

Superstar Limo - "C" (Heck, all the Fantasyland dark rides were either "B" or "C" coupons)

The Hollywood Backlot Stage - Once again, an venue, not an attraction!

Who Wants to Be A Millionaire - Play It! - "E" (due to the interaction that the guests have, not truly entertainment, but could be justified as free entertainment) JeffG gave it an "D", here is an attraction that I was torn between, but ended up giving it the higher rating to have the coupon mix turn out fairly even

GOLDEN STATE

Golden Dreams - "C" JeffG gave it an "Free ticket", since this movie wasn't sponsored, I gave it a ticket value (Jeff says A or B for a second showing) that was based on the length of the movie, and what Disney would do, I would close this place down in a heartbeat, I think it is "just" a movie and doesn't belong in the park at all

Bountiful Valley Farm - once again, not an attraction, but an area

It's Tough to be a Bug! - "D"

Soarin' Over California - "D" JeffG gave it an "E", as mentioned earlier, the ride wasn't meant to be an "E" attraction, based on what I have read.

Seasons of the Vine - Free show JeffG gave it an "A", since the Guide to the Magic still has the movie sponsord by Robert Mondavi, this is a product commercial, and the sponsor wants the largest attendance possible

Grizzly River Run - "E"

Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - "D" (Matches the old Tom Sawyer Island rating) JeffG gave it an "B" as originally mentioned TSI was an "D" in the early 80's, and there are a lot of different individual things for kids to do once in the area

Mission Tortilla Factory - Free exhibit



The Boudin Bakery - Free exhibit

Once again, this is my PERSONAL thinking on the subject, and JeffG had some different ratings, I am trying to be true to the original system that was used until the early 80's, and what would have Disney done if they kept the old system in place

coronamouseman
07-22-2002, 04:16 PM
In regards to the "A"-"E" ticket system used in the early days of Disneyland, let us remember a couple of things about the park in those early days:

Disneyland was designed after Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen and Tivoli handled rides and park admission this way (I believe they still do it this way - at least they did 5 years ago when I was there):

(A) General park admission: since the park was very much as much a private park as much as an amusement park, a guest
could pay a general admission charge to simply enter and enjoy the park without going on any rides. This type of admission was offered because in Walt's original Disneyland, he had lined up many vendors or sponsors of restaurants and shops to provide guests who wanted to buy unique items or to eat at unique and special restaurants the chance to come into the park and do so without paying in advance for rides. In the early days, during the Christmas season, they even offered free admission to the park on certain days for people wanting to Christmas shop in the park!

(B) Individual tickets for riding various amusement park rides: These were sold either as part of an admission/ticket package at the front gate, as ticket books once in the park or as individual tickets for each ride. This allowed guests to pick and choose those rides they wanted to go on and to pay for those rides either in advance or as they went on them. Advantage of tickets is obvious - ride operators don't have to make change or count money. Disney's "A" through "E" scheme is now somewhat of a cultural icon .......

The "all-inclusive" ticket came much later, after other parks like SFMM showed that customers would pay up front for the whole day rather than want to pay as they went.

One thing was for certain under the old ticket system - you never seemed to have enough ride tickets or the right ones left in your ticket book to go on those rides you wanted to. So you sometimes had to buy extra tickets or even forego some rides if you didn't bring extra spending money ......... the "all-inclusive" ticket is far better from that perspective!

JeffG
07-22-2002, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Darkbeer


OK, JeffG has posted some different values, let's compare then and see why I rated the attractions differently...

Once again, thanks for the interesting discussion point! I do think this is an interesting way of re-evaluating the popularity of the rides and attractions, both old and new.

Instead of focusing on the original ticket prices with my ratings (I didn't even always look at them), I went more by my thought of how contemporary attitudes would affect how much is charged.

Let me give my justifications for the ones where we differed...



Disneyland Railroad - "D" JeffG gave it a "C" - The coupon need for the Railroad in the early 80's was a "D", and the railroad is still one of the most popular attractions in the park (Many days it is the attraction with the highest attendance!!!)

While I think the nostalgia factor is still huge on this ride, my sense is that trains probably just aren't going to be quite as big a deal for today's crowds as they were 20 years ago. I would put this one as a borderline call, though, and could imagine the higher price possibly being justified by the transportation aspect of the attraction, even if the quantness of riding an old steam train may not be quite as big an attraction anymore.


Minnie's House - "B" JeffG gave it a "C" - once again, Mickey's house has the Meet and Greet that Minnie doesn't, and while we want to treat both mouses the same, Mickey's house has a much bigger experence

Actually, Minnie's house does have a meet & greet most of the time. In fact, the bigger aspect of Mickey's House really is the extended queue and walkthrough portion.

I can see the point where Mickey's house might be higher priced due to the more elaborate house and the simple fact that visiting Mickey is more popular.

I could also see the possibility that Disney might have set the price on both houses to free (or at least include one free coupon) simply to avoid the appearance that they were making people pay to visit with Mickey and Minnie.


Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin - "E" JeffG gave it a "D" - I probably gave it too high of a rating - so I agree with JeffG on this one, maybe even only a "C" ticket based on the Fantasyland dark ride ratings from the early 80's

My sense was that this one would probably be a notch higher than the Fantasyland rides because of the spinning effect and elaborate queue. I think it probably would have been an E ticket on opening, but I suspect the newness has worn off enough that it would be down to D now.



Enchanted Tiki Room - "D" JeffG gave it a "B", and while this show doesn't have the popularity it once has (It used to be a "E" coupon), and I lowered it to a "D for that reason, it is still a long experence with multiple AA's, I still feel it is worth the "D"

I have tremendous nostalgia for this show and still enjoy it a lot too, but it really is an attraction from another era and this type of show simply isn't that popular any longer. Maybe they could have gone to a C ticket for it today, but I think if they priced it any higher the theater would sit empty most of the time.


Jungle Cruise - "D" JeffG gives it a "C", once again another former "E" ticket, I was tempted to leave it an "E", but decided that due to the age of the attractin, knocking it down to a "D" similar to what Disney did with the Country Bears

This is another attraction that I think has a lot of popularity from a nostalgia standpoint, but it really hasn't aged extraordinarily well. With an overhaul to bring the dioramas up to a higher standard, I think the ride could still be a D or even an E. In its current state, I have a hard time seeing it go over a C. If it were brand new and didn't have the history attached, it would probably be even lower...


Haunted Mansion - "E" JeffG gave it an "D", this ride has a high capacity and the stand-by line still can be fairly long in summer, it was originally an "E", and while I feel that a couple of "E"'s needed to be lowered (Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise), this ride still is worthy of the "E" ticket

I knew this one would be my most controversial pick. :) Of course, this is still one of the park's most famous attractions and I could see where it might still justify an E ticket. I think it is really starting to show its age, though, with the fresher, more elaborate holiday attraction really driving that home. With the fame of the attraction, I think it would still get a lot of riders as an E ticket, but if it is lowered to a D it would probably get a lot more repeat riders than it would as an E.


The Disney Gallery - Free (not an attraction IMHO, but a shop) JeffG gave it an "A" - when it first opened I would agree with Jeff, but this last showing has totally converted this place to a shop, and stores don't need tickets, the park wants guests to buy stuff

I can see your point here, but I think the exhibits are still enough that Disney would probably charge for entry. Perhaps they would establish a policy of refunding the ticket with purchase...


Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes - "D" JeffG gave it an "B", the original rating was a "D", and while I thought about lowering it to a "C", the canoes seem to always have a wait, so what is the need to lower the value

I get the feeling that the long wait for this one is more due to capacity than popularity and that the wait would probably evaporate quickly if people had to use up a D ticket for it. Maybe it would still be a C, but I just don't see it having the same appeal that it did 20 years ago.


The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - "C" (to match the other dark rides in Fantasyland, would be higher if they built the TDL Pooh's Hunny Hunt instead) - JeffG gave it an "D or E", I based my rating using the WDW version of the ride, which is basically a Fantasyland Dark ride

Let's remember that the ticket system was all about setting price based on demand. When you combine the popularity of the Pooh characters with the newness of the ride, the demand for this one on opening is going to be huge. In a few years, perhaps the popularity would level off to be closer to that of the Fantasyland rides and the price would be lowered accordingly.

I see the TDL ride as completely irrelevant since the majority of guests will have no idea that it even exists.


Frontierland Shootin' Exposition - "C" JeffG gave it an "pay per play", the original Shootin' Galleries (Both at Fronterland and Adventureland) were "C" tickets at one point, and I stuck with the original value

Could be. My guess here is that the attraction would still take C tickets if we are assuming for this exercise that Disney never stopped using tickets at all. If we are assuming that they suddenly went back to the ticket system today, though, I think these would remain coin operated.


Mark Twain Steamboat - "D" JeffG gave it an "C", I stuck with the original value of the ride, it is still very popular, and don't forget that you need a variety of tickets, and if you lower to many "D" rides, you won't have any "D"'s left.

Sailing Ship Columbia - "D" JeffG gave it an "C", same reasons as I mentioned with the Mark Twain


Another one that I knew wouldn't be popular for me to reduce it, but as with the railroad and the canoes, I still think this is a type of ride that just isn't much of a draw anymore. That is why I think the price would probably be lower today.

You do have a valid point about there now being a shortness of D tickets. I really didn't look to see if I was balancing the offerings at the different ticket levels. Even if this one would stay a D ticket to balance out the offerings, I still think the less popular Columbia would drop down a level.


The Golden Horseshoe Stage - Free, once again entertainment, just like they treated it since the park opened - JeffG gave it an "B" - The value of the early 80's had this attraction as free (as mentioned it was entertainment, which was included in the GA ticket), plus this stage was sponsored - plus creates food sales

This is just a sense of mine, but I really think that the Disney company as it is today would likely charge for indoor theater shows. This was also my thinking when I said that they would likely charge for the Hyperion Theater. I'm not even completely convinced that I was right in guessing free admission to the Fantasyland Theater.


Autopia - either a "C" or a Free due to sponsorship JeffG gave it an "D" - Once again, the original value of the ride from the early 80's was a "C"

It is possible that Chevron might subsidise the cost of this one to make it free, but Richfield didn't in the attraction's early day. My feeling was that the popularity of the ride combined with the major, recent upgrades would result in the ticket price being increased a level.


Monorail - "D" JeffG gave it an "C" - This was an "E" ticket in the early 80's, but I lowered it to a "D" to keep it the same value as the Railroad, I wouldn't go lower

I considered guessing that this one would be completely free, but kept a price on it simply because it is expensive to operate. I think they would want to keep the price down now in order to encourage people to travel to Downtown Disney. In fact, perhaps AMC Theaters, Rainforest Cafe, ESPN Zone, House of Blues, etc. might even subsidise the cost to keep it free.


Innoventions - Free exhibit JeffG gave it an "B" - If you look back at history, all the "product" plugged attractions (CoP, Inner Space, The House of the Future, etc...) were free, the sponsors of the attraction want as many people to see their product plugs, no way would they charge a ticket for this "commercial"

I think that would depend on whether the sponsors were willing to cover the cost of operation completely. I could see this one going for free for exactly the reasons you say, though.


Star Tours - "D" JeffG gave it an "E", I was torn, this ride is similar to Jungle Cruise and Tiki Room, attractions that were "E"'s, but have lost popularity, I was on the fence between a "D" and an "E", but decided that it fell in the same catagory as Tiki and JC, plus it keeps the attraction mix numbers at a good level (Having enough "D" attractions)

I agree that this one is borderline. My feeling was that they would probably keep it at E because of the reputation of the attraction and the cost of licensing the property from George Lucas. I'm not sure you aren't right about it dropping to D, though.


Alice in Wonderland - "B" JeffG gave it an "C", Once again, I gave it the value it had in the early 80's, no reason to raise it, keeps the attraction mix at a good level

I upped this one a level simply because it seems to attract much larger crowds than either Pinocchio or Snow White, both of which were being set to B. In fact, the lines for this seem to be pretty comparable to those for Mr. Toad. Since Pinocchio didn't exist back when the tickets were being used, the balance doesn't seem to be affected much.


Dumbo the Flying Elephant - "C" JeffG gave it an "D" - Another attraction that I used the value that Disney had in the early 80's

I admit, this is one that I didn't look at the original ticket price. If it was set at a C in the past, it might still be there today. My thought was based on the mix of low capacity and long lines for this ride.


it's a small world - "E" (maybe a "D", due to reduction of waiting time) JeffG gave it an "D" - Another one of the original "E" attractions (Tiki, JC and Star Tours), this is a high volume ride that is popular, and it would be hard to switch values on this and HM with the Holiday version (The ticket says "iasw" on it) so decided to keep it an "E"

A tough call, but this one has dropped in popularity over the years. Some guests even seem to look at it more as an obligation than something they really want to do and I could see those guests opting not to use an E on it.

I do think it would be possible to differentate the pricing on the holiday and non-holiday versions of the rides. All it would take would be changing the signs and the tickets issued at each time. For old tickets, I'm sure there would be a "prices subject to change" disclaimer that would protect them.


Maliboomer - "C" JeffG gave it an "D" - I had this as an "D" originally, but ended up with too many "D" attractions, so decided to lower this to a "C" to be equal to the Astro Orbitor (Similar ride time)

Mulholland Madness - "C" JeffG gave it an " D" - Same reasons as the Maliboomer

I can see your point about the balance of C tickets and D tickets, but I have a hard time seeing thrill attractions ranked below D right now. They are too popular.


Orange Stinger - "B" JeffG gave it an "C" - Another ride that is partially rated to keep a good attraction mix, similar in value to the Zepher and Jellyfish, and they are both "B"'s in both my and Jeff's ratings

I upped this to a C because it seems like a more prominent attraction than either Zephyr or Jellyfish. It also has a bit more of a thrill factor.


Sun Wheel - "C" - JeffG gave it an "D" - Once again, another attraction that was between a "C" and a "D", but to keep the mix of attractions at a proper level, need to have "C" value

This is such a central attraction to the area and sufficiently promoted that I almost rated it an E. I could also possibly see it going E for the swinging cabins and D for the stationary ones. I definitely think the popularity and capacity would place it above a C.



Disney Animation - "D" JeffG gave it an "B and maybe charge for each part" This attraction deserves to be kept as a whole, and is worth the "D", especially with the variety and the workshop.

I'd maybe go up to a C on this, but while I think it is a very cool attraction I'm not sure the contents would warrant a D. If they did charge for the individual sections, I suspect "One Man's Dream" would be either free (as a tribute to Walt) or an A while "Drawn to Animation" and "Sorceror's Workshop" would be B's. I could possibly see the whole package together brought up to a C.


Hyperion Theater - FREE - Once again, not an attraction, entertainment was included in the general admission price back when there was "tickets/coupons". JeffG gave it an "B or C", heck, BLAST! would be worth an "E" ticket, but the policy that was set up by Disney for the first 30 years was that the entertainment shows were part of the General Admission price, and I was trying to give values as if the original system never went away.

See my comments about the Golden Horseshoe.


Who Wants to Be A Millionaire - Play It! - "E" (due to the interaction that the guests have, not truly entertainment, but could be justified as free entertainment) JeffG gave it an "D", here is an attraction that I was torn between, but ended up giving it the higher rating to have the coupon mix turn out fairly even

I was also torn between D and E here for the same reasons you were. I only went down to a D mostly because I have a hard time imagining them giving an E today to something that didn't have some sort of a "ride" component (whether actual ride-through or simulator).


Golden Dreams - "C" JeffG gave it an "Free ticket", since this movie wasn't sponsored, I gave it a ticket value (Jeff says A or B for a second showing) that was based on the length of the movie, and what Disney would do, I would close this place down in a heartbeat, I think it is "just" a movie and doesn't belong in the park at all

Remember that Lincoln hasn't ever been sponsorred either (at least since it arrived at Disneyland), but was still offered free. Since this is kind of DCA's equivalent histoy lesson, that was why I thought it might be made a freebie.


Soarin' Over California - "D" JeffG gave it an "E", as mentioned earlier, the ride wasn't meant to be an "E" attraction, based on what I have read.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this one would be an E ticket. I'm not sure where you heard that it was ever meant to be below an E ticket, but everything I've ever seen from the earliest visits to the preview centers suggested to me that this was intended to be one of the park's headliners along with Grizzly River Run and California Screamin'. I think this one seems to have the highest "wow factor" in the park and I can't imagine they would charge less than top price for it.


Seasons of the Vine - Free show JeffG gave it an "A", since the Guide to the Magic still has the movie sponsord by Robert Mondavi, this is a product commercial, and the sponsor wants the largest attendance possible

If Mondavi still wanted to subsidise this, I could see it being free. I'm sure it would have been at park opening. Since they pulled out of the rest of the winery, though, I tend to think the sponsorship is mostly just in name only now. That is why I think Disney would probably charge an A here.


Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - "D" (Matches the old Tom Sawyer Island rating) JeffG gave it an "B" as originally mentioned TSI was an "D" in the early 80's, and there are a lot of different individual things for kids to do once in the area

Maybe this would get a C, but since it doesn't have the ride component (the rafts) that TSI had when it was rated a D, I get the feeling this wouldn't rate a D. For one thing, I think it would be hard to sell people on using a D ticket for a kids play area when you really can't see what it has from the outside.


Once again, this is my PERSONAL thinking on the subject, and JeffG had some different ratings, I am trying to be true to the original system that was used until the early 80's, and what would have Disney done if they kept the old system in place

As I kind of hinted above, I probably was looking a bit more at what I think the company would do today instead of trying to extend from what was done 20 years ago. There have been a lot of changes in public tastes and in Disney's corporate attitudes and I suspect those would be reflected in the pricings.

Again, interesting discussion!

-Jeff