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Morrigoon
07-21-2002, 11:10 PM
This is a rehash of an old thread that is currently falling off-topic, so I thought I'd start the discourse anew here.

Question is.... how would YOU fix DCA?

I had previously posted this idea:
(note- this was originally across 3 threads, so pardon the way it's written)
*****************************************

DCA:

Immediately (holiday season): I would put together a "family package" of "gift tickets" to DCA. Family of 4, 2 adults, 2 kids for $80. These would be a specially printed edition with holiday images on the tickets, and for an extra $4 would come with two character holiday cards that were ticket holders (like money holding cards). Great stocking stuffer. Tickets would be good until March 31st. Additional family members' tickets could be purchased for $20 (kids).

Longer term, I would look at lowering DCA ticket prices to $25. I would meanwhile send the imagineers to work at a plan to turn DCA into a Disney's America. It would be a multi-phase plan, so the park could remain open (with reduced ticket prices) as it was being made over.

To start with, I would take the back area of Hollywood (where SSL, Millionaire, the food court, that outdoor stage, and Muppets are) and start turning that into New York. Millionaire (for as long as it remains popular) can stay. However, the building would be retrofitted or rebuilt in such a way that later a children's indoor ride could be put in. Said ride would be designed ahead of time, so the building can be done right for it. Better yet, a plan to make a small theatre out of it. Make a deal with Children's Television Workshop to make an Audio-Animatronic Sesame Street show. Either that, or AA creatures putting on a "broadway musical" in all its glitzy cheesy glory. No tongue-in-cheek sarcasm here, just unashamed cheesiness. Kind of like the city version of CBJ.

SSL and Hollywood and Dine would be history. In their place, a city skyline (a pretty version, like NYNY hotel in Vegas has). The Empire State building, etc. Empire State building would start as an empty shell, but have space in it for a future ToT, when people's nerves have calmed a bit. In SSL's place, a new "mountain". Okay, not a mountain, but an indoor E-ticket. Maybe even if it was just Rock 'n Rollercoaster. The front would be a part of the area's city skyline, not a hideous independent building. The entrance would be themed as a record store (okay, MUSIC store, since none of them sell records anymore )

This land would now feature a second story. Up there (not above the coaster, but above other spots) would be a nightclub (probably playing 70's-80's hits with some 90's stuff, to appeal to a wider audience), a piano lounge with a nice view and outdoor dining (specializing in beverages and appetizer type stuff, mostly buffalo wings, chicken tenders, fries, nachos and quesadillas. Easy stuff requiring only a small kitchen. It would probably get its stuff half-prepared from the kitchen used for the new restaurant in the area. That kitchen would be the one previously used for Hollywood and Dine, except instead of one large restaurant area, it would be a service area, with tables upstairs (overlooking the land). This dining area would be done all cute, with trees in planters, umbrellas over the tables, and white lights in the trees and around the edges of the umbrellas.

Yes, one of the things that will make the NY area desirable to guests at night will be how pretty it looks with all the buildings and windows, etc. all lit up. (and the Emp. St. will have its lighting designed such that however the actual one is lit at that time of year, so will the fake be lit, even the small, forced-perspective windows up high.)

Where the outdoor stage once was, now the entrance to this land, will be a scaled-down Statue of Liberty. What better weenie could a land ask for? She would stand on a small island in the middle of a largish pool of water, with the edges all themed as miniature cityscape on the inside, and look like a normal, but nice planter/fountain edge on the outside. Behind her ladyship (where it's less visible from the front) would be coin-op boats. Groan if you will, but as a kid, I thought those were the coolest things. The barriers build would be such that none of the boats could get lost out of view (ie: the couldn't end up in front of the statue). Keeping in mind that the statue would face towards Muppets (yes, Muppets can stay), the boats would still be perfectly viewable from the rest of the land, they are by no means hidden in a corner, they just aren't the first impression either. The outdoor stage would then be rebuilt, facing towards the former SSL more directly, and a much smaller stage. There would be a coffee bar location there, serving espressos, cappuccinos, lattes and the like (also kid's juice boxes, orange and apple, as is carried in other locations currently). Instead of rows upon rows of benches, there would be two rows of lowered benches, intended for exclusive use by children. The rest of the area would have chairs and small tables (like Coke Corner at DL has). This stage would be large enough for story readings during the day, and starting in the afternoon, musicians. Either a string trio/quartet or a small jazz band or all of the above rotating. This will draw, and keep, people in the area. It will be worth having because it will help sell coffee and fill the land with music. It will also be in the sightlines of most of the area dining establishments, with their 2nd story patios and windowed indoor areas. So in some way it will help sales in all the area restaurants. (Anyone who doesn't understand how an entertainer increases the revenue for a food location, ask yourself this: why is Rod Miller the highest paid entertainer in the park? There IS a reason!)

When the NY redo is complete, its unveiling will be part of the official change from DCA to DA. The park's name will change at that time. It will be a tad California heavy, but many of the themes can easily be understood to represent larger areas of the country than they currently claim to. Grizzly Peak recreation area, for example, is named after a Californian bear, but could be understood to be representative of all national parks. Since GRR already has geysers, this changeover will be fairly painless. Paradise Pier, for as long as it remains (under my plan it's eventually doomed, but there are too many attractions to bulldoze it first) can be easily understood to be any seaside pier/carnival from Santa Monica to Atlantic City. Bountiful Valley Farm (for the time it is there) can easily represent half the midwest states. The half of Hollywood not absorbed into NY (ie: the "street" which contains the Animation building, the theatre, a smoothie shop and soap opera bistro) may remain, though eventually the soap opera bistro will be turned into a location more guests want to visit.

I'm going to go ahead and post this much and I'll do phase II in another post.
**********************************************

Phase II:

On the opposite end of the park.... where Mulholland madness stands useless, is the perfect spot for a volcano. Some of you may recognize this one, I invented it in another thread, but I'll repeat for the benefit of those who missed it (especially since I don't remember which thread!)

The volcano is another e-ticket rollercoaster in the dark deal. The loading platform would be themed like a grass shack with rails/poles themed to look like bamboo. The attraction would start by going up the outside of the mountain, then in near the top like the Paris Space Mountain. The *very* top would be made to appear as if lava could come flowing over the edges at any moment. Indeed, it would have some red areas on the rim made from a durable plastic material. At night, it would glow red. There would also be a smoke machine there in the top, so periodically smoke would emanate from the top. It would all be fireproofed enough that small pyro could be shot from there during a lagoon show (or just for the heck of it a couple times a night to attract attention and "plus" the area). The bottom of the interior of the attraction is made to look like glowing, bubbling lava (ala Indy). The attraction twists and turns etc. inside the main area of the volcano, then shoots into a dark "lava tube", accompanied by a loud ~SPLASH!~ sound. The dark tube gives way to a Plexiglass tube running through a large fishtank, then back into darkness, and comes up from a hole in the lagoon (obviously this is a short underwater tunnel) which is framed on the outside by lava rocks. It then comes across the water, joins up with a "lava rock" archway from the lagoon side of the main walkway back over to the volcano. It does another turn around the exterior (so the track winds around over under etc. the track for the beginning of the ride) then returns to the station. Very little of the ride is exposed-structure. basically from the hole in the water up to the rock arch. A span which can be kept to a distance of perhaps only a few feet (more than 5, less than 20). The only reason the lava arch doesn't reach all the way out to the hole is because it would reduce the dramatic impact of coming out of the middle of the water. The sides of the lava arch can be plussed with waterfalls and foliage. This will improve both the look and the sound of the area.

The aquarium that the Volcano ride goes through will not be exclusively for the attraction, nor will it be exactly a tube. More like two large wall-like fishtanks attached in certain areas to look like the coaster is going through a full-on tube. Anyway, one side of the aquarium would be larger and lusher than the other. The smaller side would have a rock background. The larger side would be shared by the coaster and, on the outside of it, either a sealife "exhibit", or a seafood restaurant. It could even mark the return of the Tahitian Terrace, only it must be renamed to Hawaii. Perhaps Hale Ohana or something. The restaurant could have a stage with hula and ukulele shows.

This area of the park would also get a Little Mermaid dark ride, in the grand tradition of, say, an Alice or Peter Pan.

The Hawaii area would comprise the area from the Zephyr over to the Orange Stinger, and all the land that wraps around them. All that would be left now of Paradise Pier would be the Maliboomer and Screamin'.

More on the Island area: The King Triton Carousel and the Jumpin' Jellyfish can stay (though I would have preferred something a little better themed, it will be moderately acceptable)

The volcano would be a great weenie for the Island village land (no name as of yet.) It would be Hawaii toward the Paradise Pier end, and transition over to a Southwest/NM/Ariz./TX area.

This would be the "western" themed area of the park, but sticking closer to the painted desert theme so as not to tread the toes of Frontierland. It would be a fairly small area anyway, but large enough for a walk-up taco stand, a sit-down restaurant with tex-mex and other southwestern style food, and a line-dancing cowboy burger joint with a line dance instructor on hand to teach a lesson every odd hour, and tables that look as if they've been fashioned from barrels. Later, when a suitable kids play area has been built elsewhere (at this stage, bugs will still be in the farm area, so that would suffice), the Griz Peak Rec Area will give way to a show building for Western River Expedition. In the process, we will probably lose the Whoopi Theater due to space constraints. However, the line-dancing burger joint (hmm... maybe BBQ joint) would be inside WRE, blue bayou style. To acommodate the multi-story needs of WRE, the landscape would rise in that area, kind of like a hill or plateau, to allow lots of lower-story room. In that way, the Southwestern area would transition nicely into the National Parks area (basically GRR) which is fairly Rocky-Mountain in its design.

This is the end of Phase II

**********************************************

Phase III of the DCA-DA conversion

(just to rehash: the park would stay open, with only one area closed down at a time, and gala openings for each area. for the few years that this is being done, the price of DCA would be dropped to $25 per head, slowly rising as the newer, better areas of the park open. The park's name and the name of a couple lands would officially change when phase I, NY, opens. Phase III would complete the major changes in the park)

Phase III is where we finally lose Paradise Pier. It had to wait until other areas of the park had actual attractions in them.

For the life of me I cannot figure out a way to turn Screamin into an attraction that would fit into a themed environment. As much as I'd like it removed, there's no debating that it is a decent coaster and impractical to remove. So bear with me on its effect on the look of the area.

Paradise Pier would now become Liberty Bay. It would be representative of the colonies around the time of the revolution. Perhaps that would be the new name for Screamin : American Revolution (or is that too close to the 6flags coaster name?). The bridge over to Screamin's end of the area would be done over as a quaint covered bridge (like the one in Ichabod Crane). As much of screamin's exposed structure as possible would be covered. Only the top part of it would remain uncovered, so as not to ruin the sightlines for riders of the attraction. While the half tube does block the view of the outside world, it's hideous. It goes. If a suitable wall-like structure can be built to continue to block the view of the convention center, it would be.
In front of Screamin', a new waterfront would be built in the colonial theme. Interesting shops would be put in. A toy shop, featuring tin toys, toy soldiers, tricorn hats, etc. would be put in. Also a fish n chips quick service location. There would be a small shop selling jams, lace, soaps, and other quaint items that middle aged women (like my mother) go so nuts over. There would be some "landmark" items in the area as well. Things like a Liberty Bell and a statue of Washington or Franklin. At that end of the lake, a small ship would be built (since there is no submerged track, it would be stationary) On the pier side, it can house the fish n chips place, but the side facing across the lake would look fairly genuine. Should a show require it, this would be perfect for dumping "tea" from (recreation of the Boston Tea Party).
This land would have gas looking streetlamps, such as main street in DL has.
The covering for Screamin's structure could be made to look like hills/mountains (the appalachins).
Maliboomer goes. It's an eyesore. The ferris wheel stays until something better can be designed to go in its place. It is attractive, and it is an attraction, which the park needs to keep. Since there is a need for more kid friendly attractions, a dark ride based on the creation of America from Columbus and the pilgrims' landings through the Boston Tea Party, the Declaration of Independence, Paul Revere's ride, the war with Britain, and culminating with the swearing in of George Washington as the first elected President. It would have a narration by someone pretending to be Ben Franklin. If this could be sunk underground, then it could be a Pirates-type boat ride, otherwise it would be a fairly quality but normal dark ride.

End of Phase III and fairly complete conversion of DCA into DA.

Minor changes later, perhaps the addition of another attraction in the Condor Flats area, or the extension of the park into the Timon lot would be for a later time.

*********************************************

So far I found one major flaw in the above redesign in Phase I. The parade route passes between H&D and SSL's buildings, so if it was turned into one continuous front, there would have to be a gateway in the middle. Totally doable though, you make tall gates like at Town Square that are cut out to match the skyline image on them. The "mountain" (or Rock 'n Rollercoaster, or whatever E ticket is put there) would be where SSL is, and somehow be designed to share the building with ToT (would take some creativity, but hey, if you plan ahead....) and the restaurant take the place of H&D... or, if it could be worked out, have ToT in behind the restaurant. If not, then ToT take the place of H&D completely and build the restaurant next door to the E-ticket attraction (with parade route passing between the restaurant and ToT), giving up on reusing the old kitchen.

Nigel2
07-21-2002, 11:14 PM
New phrase added to the stoing list...

From now on all references to the idea of a "Disney America" shall be met with stones!:D

zapppop
07-21-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
This is a rehash of an old thread that is currently falling off-topic, so I thought I'd start the discourse anew here.

Question is.... how would YOU fix DCA?

I had previously posted this idea:
(note- this was originally across 3 threads, so pardon the way it's written)
*****************************************

DCA:

Immediately (holiday season): I would put together a "family package" of "gift tickets" to DCA. Family of 4, 2 adults, 2 kids for $80. These would be a specially printed edition with holiday images on the tickets, and for an extra $4 would come with two character holiday cards that were ticket holders (like money holding cards). Great stocking stuffer. Tickets would be good until March 31st. Additional family members' tickets could be purchased for $20 (kids).

Longer term, I would look at lowering DCA ticket prices to $25. I would meanwhile send the imagineers to work at a plan to turn DCA into a Disney's America. It would be a multi-phase plan, so the park could remain open (with reduced ticket prices) as it was being made over.

To start with, I would take the back area of Hollywood (where SSL, Millionaire, the food court, that outdoor stage, and Muppets are) and start turning that into New York. Millionaire (for as long as it remains popular) can stay. However, the building would be retrofitted or rebuilt in such a way that later a children's indoor ride could be put in. Said ride would be designed ahead of time, so the building can be done right for it. Better yet, a plan to make a small theatre out of it. Make a deal with Children's Television Workshop to make an Audio-Animatronic Sesame Street show. Either that, or AA creatures putting on a "broadway musical" in all its glitzy cheesy glory. No tongue-in-cheek sarcasm here, just unashamed cheesiness. Kind of like the city version of CBJ.

SSL and Hollywood and Dine would be history. In their place, a city skyline (a pretty version, like NYNY hotel in Vegas has). The Empire State building, etc. Empire State building would start as an empty shell, but have space in it for a future ToT, when people's nerves have calmed a bit. In SSL's place, a new "mountain". Okay, not a mountain, but an indoor E-ticket. Maybe even if it was just Rock 'n Rollercoaster. The front would be a part of the area's city skyline, not a hideous independent building. The entrance would be themed as a record store (okay, MUSIC store, since none of them sell records anymore )

This land would now feature a second story. Up there (not above the coaster, but above other spots) would be a nightclub (probably playing 70's-80's hits with some 90's stuff, to appeal to a wider audience), a piano lounge with a nice view and outdoor dining (specializing in beverages and appetizer type stuff, mostly buffalo wings, chicken tenders, fries, nachos and quesadillas. Easy stuff requiring only a small kitchen. It would probably get its stuff half-prepared from the kitchen used for the new restaurant in the area. That kitchen would be the one previously used for Hollywood and Dine, except instead of one large restaurant area, it would be a service area, with tables upstairs (overlooking the land). This dining area would be done all cute, with trees in planters, umbrellas over the tables, and white lights in the trees and around the edges of the umbrellas.

Yes, one of the things that will make the NY area desirable to guests at night will be how pretty it looks with all the buildings and windows, etc. all lit up. (and the Emp. St. will have its lighting designed such that however the actual one is lit at that time of year, so will the fake be lit, even the small, forced-perspective windows up high.)

Where the outdoor stage once was, now the entrance to this land, will be a scaled-down Statue of Liberty. What better weenie could a land ask for? She would stand on a small island in the middle of a largish pool of water, with the edges all themed as miniature cityscape on the inside, and look like a normal, but nice planter/fountain edge on the outside. Behind her ladyship (where it's less visible from the front) would be coin-op boats. Groan if you will, but as a kid, I thought those were the coolest things. The barriers build would be such that none of the boats could get lost out of view (ie: the couldn't end up in front of the statue). Keeping in mind that the statue would face towards Muppets (yes, Muppets can stay), the boats would still be perfectly viewable from the rest of the land, they are by no means hidden in a corner, they just aren't the first impression either. The outdoor stage would then be rebuilt, facing towards the former SSL more directly, and a much smaller stage. There would be a coffee bar location there, serving espressos, cappuccinos, lattes and the like (also kid's juice boxes, orange and apple, as is carried in other locations currently). Instead of rows upon rows of benches, there would be two rows of lowered benches, intended for exclusive use by children. The rest of the area would have chairs and small tables (like Coke Corner at DL has). This stage would be large enough for story readings during the day, and starting in the afternoon, musicians. Either a string trio/quartet or a small jazz band or all of the above rotating. This will draw, and keep, people in the area. It will be worth having because it will help sell coffee and fill the land with music. It will also be in the sightlines of most of the area dining establishments, with their 2nd story patios and windowed indoor areas. So in some way it will help sales in all the area restaurants. (Anyone who doesn't understand how an entertainer increases the revenue for a food location, ask yourself this: why is Rod Miller the highest paid entertainer in the park? There IS a reason!)

When the NY redo is complete, its unveiling will be part of the official change from DCA to DA. The park's name will change at that time. It will be a tad California heavy, but many of the themes can easily be understood to represent larger areas of the country than they currently claim to. Grizzly Peak recreation area, for example, is named after a Californian bear, but could be understood to be representative of all national parks. Since GRR already has geysers, this changeover will be fairly painless. Paradise Pier, for as long as it remains (under my plan it's eventually doomed, but there are too many attractions to bulldoze it first) can be easily understood to be any seaside pier/carnival from Santa Monica to Atlantic City. Bountiful Valley Farm (for the time it is there) can easily represent half the midwest states. The half of Hollywood not absorbed into NY (ie: the "street" which contains the Animation building, the theatre, a smoothie shop and soap opera bistro) may remain, though eventually the soap opera bistro will be turned into a location more guests want to visit.

I'm going to go ahead and post this much and I'll do phase II in another post.
**********************************************

Phase II:

On the opposite end of the park.... where Mulholland madness stands useless, is the perfect spot for a volcano. Some of you may recognize this one, I invented it in another thread, but I'll repeat for the benefit of those who missed it (especially since I don't remember which thread!)

The volcano is another e-ticket rollercoaster in the dark deal. The loading platform would be themed like a grass shack with rails/poles themed to look like bamboo. The attraction would start by going up the outside of the mountain, then in near the top like the Paris Space Mountain. The *very* top would be made to appear as if lava could come flowing over the edges at any moment. Indeed, it would have some red areas on the rim made from a durable plastic material. At night, it would glow red. There would also be a smoke machine there in the top, so periodically smoke would emanate from the top. It would all be fireproofed enough that small pyro could be shot from there during a lagoon show (or just for the heck of it a couple times a night to attract attention and "plus" the area). The bottom of the interior of the attraction is made to look like glowing, bubbling lava (ala Indy). The attraction twists and turns etc. inside the main area of the volcano, then shoots into a dark "lava tube", accompanied by a loud ~SPLASH!~ sound. The dark tube gives way to a Plexiglass tube running through a large fishtank, then back into darkness, and comes up from a hole in the lagoon (obviously this is a short underwater tunnel) which is framed on the outside by lava rocks. It then comes across the water, joins up with a "lava rock" archway from the lagoon side of the main walkway back over to the volcano. It does another turn around the exterior (so the track winds around over under etc. the track for the beginning of the ride) then returns to the station. Very little of the ride is exposed-structure. basically from the hole in the water up to the rock arch. A span which can be kept to a distance of perhaps only a few feet (more than 5, less than 20). The only reason the lava arch doesn't reach all the way out to the hole is because it would reduce the dramatic impact of coming out of the middle of the water. The sides of the lava arch can be plussed with waterfalls and foliage. This will improve both the look and the sound of the area.

The aquarium that the Volcano ride goes through will not be exclusively for the attraction, nor will it be exactly a tube. More like two large wall-like fishtanks attached in certain areas to look like the coaster is going through a full-on tube. Anyway, one side of the aquarium would be larger and lusher than the other. The smaller side would have a rock background. The larger side would be shared by the coaster and, on the outside of it, either a sealife "exhibit", or a seafood restaurant. It could even mark the return of the Tahitian Terrace, only it must be renamed to Hawaii. Perhaps Hale Ohana or something. The restaurant could have a stage with hula and ukulele shows.

This area of the park would also get a Little Mermaid dark ride, in the grand tradition of, say, an Alice or Peter Pan.

The Hawaii area would comprise the area from the Zephyr over to the Orange Stinger, and all the land that wraps around them. All that would be left now of Paradise Pier would be the Maliboomer and Screamin'.

More on the Island area: The King Triton Carousel and the Jumpin' Jellyfish can stay (though I would have preferred something a little better themed, it will be moderately acceptable)

The volcano would be a great weenie for the Island village land (no name as of yet.) It would be Hawaii toward the Paradise Pier end, and transition over to a Southwest/NM/Ariz./TX area.

This would be the "western" themed area of the park, but sticking closer to the painted desert theme so as not to tread the toes of Frontierland. It would be a fairly small area anyway, but large enough for a walk-up taco stand, a sit-down restaurant with tex-mex and other southwestern style food, and a line-dancing cowboy burger joint with a line dance instructor on hand to teach a lesson every odd hour, and tables that look as if they've been fashioned from barrels. Later, when a suitable kids play area has been built elsewhere (at this stage, bugs will still be in the farm area, so that would suffice), the Griz Peak Rec Area will give way to a show building for Western River Expedition. In the process, we will probably lose the Whoopi Theater due to space constraints. However, the line-dancing burger joint (hmm... maybe BBQ joint) would be inside WRE, blue bayou style. To acommodate the multi-story needs of WRE, the landscape would rise in that area, kind of like a hill or plateau, to allow lots of lower-story room. In that way, the Southwestern area would transition nicely into the National Parks area (basically GRR) which is fairly Rocky-Mountain in its design.

This is the end of Phase II

**********************************************

Phase III of the DCA-DA conversion

(just to rehash: the park would stay open, with only one area closed down at a time, and gala openings for each area. for the few years that this is being done, the price of DCA would be dropped to $25 per head, slowly rising as the newer, better areas of the park open. The park's name and the name of a couple lands would officially change when phase I, NY, opens. Phase III would complete the major changes in the park)

Phase III is where we finally lose Paradise Pier. It had to wait until other areas of the park had actual attractions in them.

For the life of me I cannot figure out a way to turn Screamin into an attraction that would fit into a themed environment. As much as I'd like it removed, there's no debating that it is a decent coaster and impractical to remove. So bear with me on its effect on the look of the area.

Paradise Pier would now become Liberty Bay. It would be representative of the colonies around the time of the revolution. Perhaps that would be the new name for Screamin : American Revolution (or is that too close to the 6flags coaster name?). The bridge over to Screamin's end of the area would be done over as a quaint covered bridge (like the one in Ichabod Crane). As much of screamin's exposed structure as possible would be covered. Only the top part of it would remain uncovered, so as not to ruin the sightlines for riders of the attraction. While the half tube does block the view of the outside world, it's hideous. It goes. If a suitable wall-like structure can be built to continue to block the view of the convention center, it would be.
In front of Screamin', a new waterfront would be built in the colonial theme. Interesting shops would be put in. A toy shop, featuring tin toys, toy soldiers, tricorn hats, etc. would be put in. Also a fish n chips quick service location. There would be a small shop selling jams, lace, soaps, and other quaint items that middle aged women (like my mother) go so nuts over. There would be some "landmark" items in the area as well. Things like a Liberty Bell and a statue of Washington or Franklin. At that end of the lake, a small ship would be built (since there is no submerged track, it would be stationary) On the pier side, it can house the fish n chips place, but the side facing across the lake would look fairly genuine. Should a show require it, this would be perfect for dumping "tea" from (recreation of the Boston Tea Party).
This land would have gas looking streetlamps, such as main street in DL has.
The covering for Screamin's structure could be made to look like hills/mountains (the appalachins).
Maliboomer goes. It's an eyesore. The ferris wheel stays until something better can be designed to go in its place. It is attractive, and it is an attraction, which the park needs to keep. Since there is a need for more kid friendly attractions, a dark ride based on the creation of America from Columbus and the pilgrims' landings through the Boston Tea Party, the Declaration of Independence, Paul Revere's ride, the war with Britain, and culminating with the swearing in of George Washington as the first elected President. It would have a narration by someone pretending to be Ben Franklin. If this could be sunk underground, then it could be a Pirates-type boat ride, otherwise it would be a fairly quality but normal dark ride.

End of Phase III and fairly complete conversion of DCA into DA.

Minor changes later, perhaps the addition of another attraction in the Condor Flats area, or the extension of the park into the Timon lot would be for a later time.

*********************************************

So far I found one major flaw in the above redesign in Phase I. The parade route passes between H&D and SSL's buildings, so if it was turned into one continuous front, there would have to be a gateway in the middle. Totally doable though, you make tall gates like at Town Square that are cut out to match the skyline image on them. The "mountain" (or Rock 'n Rollercoaster, or whatever E ticket is put there) would be where SSL is, and somehow be designed to share the building with ToT (would take some creativity, but hey, if you plan ahead....) and the restaurant take the place of H&D... or, if it could be worked out, have ToT in behind the restaurant. If not, then ToT take the place of H&D completely and build the restaurant next door to the E-ticket attraction (with parade route passing between the restaurant and ToT), giving up on reusing the old kitchen.
I'd do the same.

Nigel2
07-21-2002, 11:22 PM
Oh you son of a... posting all that just to say one line... that is something only a total... oh wait I probably should do that.:D

Morrigoon
07-21-2002, 11:25 PM
ROTFL Zappop! I thought the same thing Nigel did about your quotation - but cute joke! :p

Rallymonkey23
07-21-2002, 11:30 PM
ROTFLMAOPMP!! Good one Zapppop!

Not Afraid
07-22-2002, 12:15 AM
Well, Zapppop, you got me cussing you out too.:cool: (Or course, someone else is laughing next to me.)

Morrigoon
07-22-2002, 12:57 AM
Okay, I have an addition to the Hollywood area:

Use one of the storefront areas at the beginning of the Hollywood area (either that or add this to the second part of the left side, between NY and LA) and add one of those song recording studio things. Well themed to either land, and also is a money-maker! (not to mention really fun... almost an attraction!)

efoxx
07-22-2002, 07:42 AM
I would suggest they admit their mistake, plow it back into a parking lot, then build a proper park (DisneySea) elswhere nearby.

Nigel2
07-22-2002, 09:17 PM
At what land would cost them?! Doubt that.:D

Hmmm... a recording studio... call it sun studio? Nah... wrong state (and yes you can cut a single there whenever you want).:D

Hmmm... California... image is everything... how about a place where you can make a music video as well? Lip synching! :D

merlinjones
07-23-2002, 05:53 AM
Swap meet!

hbquikcomjamesl
07-23-2002, 07:57 AM
It just needs some time, and some TLC, and some ruthless ripping-out of things that don't work (like Mulholland Mistake and SuperStar Lemon).

While the contrast between DCA and TDS on their respective opening days is rather extreme, how many other Disney parks were as successful as TDS from day one? Certainly not DL (think "Black Sunday" and "The Mud-Bank Ride"); not AK (even as recently as two years ago, you could see and do most of it in half a day) or MGM. Probably not even EPCOT. Maybe WDW-MK and TDL, but they were proven concepts (and DLP wasn't completely successful at first, even though it WAS a proven concept!)

merlinjones
07-23-2002, 08:29 AM
...Flea market!

coronamouseman
07-23-2002, 08:49 AM
A lot of great ideas (maybe there should be a separate topic area for "imagineering" which allows all of the creative types to express in whatever detail they want their ideas) ..........

But bottom line is this: just add more interesting stuff to DCA to make it a full-fledged park

ToT is on the way
Add RnR Coaster as it fits perfectly the Hollywood theme
Add a couple of other E-ticket rides and presto ..........

DCA will be a popular and viable (from economic point of view) park which will command full price admissions

Disney must feel the same way otherwise why would they build a waterpark, which will cost a lot less but generate far less revenue (and far fewer local jobs) than another park? They must feel that ultimately DCA will have enough attractions to support a full day or more to tour ...........

merlinjones
07-23-2002, 08:50 AM
Pick-a-Part Car Dismantling Lot (featuring the stars of ABC's "According to Jim").

Andrew
07-23-2002, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Swap meet!
...Flea market!
Pick-a-Part Car Dismantling Lot (featuring the stars of ABC's "According to Jim").

Very funny, MJ. But most swap meets/flea markets are converted closed drive-in movie theaters. How about a real actual drive-in theater showing Disney classics from the 50s and 60s? You know, all those Dean Jones, Kurt Russell, Annette Funicello movies...

I'd go.

Techie7
07-23-2002, 10:37 AM
Speaking of which even adding a movie theatre to the park to show the old annimated features would be interesting. The hyperion could be used for a couple hours in the morning or afternoon. OR the AMC could use one screen for it. I think they would do very well.

no1here
07-23-2002, 11:22 AM
How about a decaying drive-in now used for a swap meet. I mean, if we want to get realistic here?

80S ERA
07-23-2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
.......how many other Disney parks were as successful as TDS from day one? Certainly not DL (think "Black Sunday" and "The Mud-Bank Ride"); not AK (even as recently as two years ago, you could see and do most of it in half a day) or MGM. Probably not even EPCOT. Maybe WDW-MK and TDL, but they were proven concepts (and DLP wasn't completely successful at first, even though it WAS a proven concept!)
Actually, MGM studios opened to capacity crowds during the 1st months. (Source: "As the World Began" Walt Disney Co.) As for WDW-MK, I'll have to double check on that one. Epcot didn't do well until the first holiday week.

merlinjones
07-23-2002, 02:32 PM
>>Very funny, MJ. But most swap meets/flea markets are converted closed drive-in movie theaters. How
about a real actual drive-in theater showing Disney classics from the 50s and 60s? You know, all those
Dean Jones, Kurt Russell, Annette Funicello movies...<<

I'm there! How big is your back seat?

coronamouseman
07-23-2002, 03:24 PM
Drive-in type movie is a great idea for the summer - put up a screen, build a kind of angled lawn for weary guests to sit down on (marketing guys - you could sell cool towels for those not wanting to get dirty) and then show classic Disney cartoons or movies.

Be a great place for guests to go while waiting for their FP to Screamin (or in a couple of years ToT) to be valid ...........

thekirk
07-23-2002, 03:30 PM
This is coppied from another post I did, I put it here for you to read, if you haven't. I'd love imput on ideas!

"Well, I'm not sure 'bout this. But as I type I will think of things Ok, lets keep the CA theme. It's ok. It's not the theme, people don't care 'bout the theme. They care 'bout whats in the park, and the amount of attractions. Lets kick out the Limo ride in the backlot (I've never ridden it, it's always closed!!!!) Lets build a fat sound stage in it's place. In this sound stage guests to DCA can sign up, with their group they are traveling with, to be stars in their own movies. The people would be able to pick what type of, very short movie they would like to be in (comedy, romance, action, etc.) Then they go for a 2-3 hour session to make their movie. The scripts can be pre-written and with very easy lines to get (+ cue cards provided!). They guests/actors will get make-up etc. They will shoot the very short film around the very large sound stage (a lot of diff. sound stages in one...becuase more than one stage would be needed to have more than 1 film shooting at once). Then the films will be edited, and shipped to the persons home on DVD or VHS. This is just a wild idea. Not sure if older peeps would do it. I think younger kids, teens, and young adults would do it. It would just be a cool experience. I don't know how well it would go over.

Going over to Paridise Pier. This is a major problem. This should be turned into a small coastal town area. Something thats more Disneylandish. I say tear down Screamin all together. Screamin is a great coaster, it is a quality coaster....which it should be, since it's Disney. But, coasters like this don't belong in Disney parks. Lets put in a more coastal town feel. Maybe Disney could put in a beach, with life guards. There would be feat in water only, no swiming. There could be a salt water taffy store...etc. A kite shop. A surf and skate shop. Just more of a coastal town feel. With a resturant that has outside dinning (with view of water, of course). There needs to be an attraction here, though. It needs to be a ride. I'm not sure what kind of ride you would put in here. This would happen on the Eastern side of the pier. On the South Western part the Golden State area could be expanded, and a wild ride through gold mines could be added (kinda like Big Thunder in DL, but bigger, and maybe with two tracks. (almost like 2 rides in one?) There would needs to be many, many more large evergreens put in. They could also put in an outdoor stage for concerts. The pier just needs to hit the road. It feels like I'm in a Six Flags park when I'm walking through it, not the most exciting feeling. I know taking the pier away would take away most of the parks rides, but new ones could be though up. Ones that don't stick out and STING my eye! - ahem - the stupid Orange Stinger! I like the idea of the Sun Wheel (just becuase it's the 2nd one like it in the world..I think??....and Disney has it. I think that could stay, but they might want to push it off into a corner, or something! Lets expand on the bay area part too! I mean, what would Cali ever be without that! We also need to make the gold rush come into play more, that is what kept this state growning in its early days

Back at the backlots. Kick the stupd Soap Opera Bistro out! Give me a break! Lets put in a high class resturant that Hollywood movie stars would be eating at! We should also get a peak at what Imangineers do! (I already know what they do, but most people don't really know what it takes to put a park together. Lets get Broadway shows I know playing in the Hyperion Theater! Like Beauty and the Beast, or Lion King! Something Disney."

More developed ideas to come (maybe)........

Gauchograd99
07-23-2002, 05:02 PM
I don't think you need to kick the Soap Opera Bistro out, but rather give that menu a toss into the "ocean" near the pier and start with something that isn't based on trendy crap. I am sorry, but every time I have been there (my girlfriend loves it when everything else is full everywhere else) I have had to endure strange sauces and odd additives. Come to think of it, the pricing needs some work in my estimation. When a restaurant is floundering the last thing you want to do is charge $20.00 for a mediocre steak when you can have great beef in the hotel steakhouse.

To quote Jack Nicholson as the Joker in "Batman": "This park needs an e--ma"

To really make this park a good one overall you need to realistically start over. There is no flow to the place and it just seems empty from the fact you have vast views with nothing to see across the way. What I mean is look from near the San Francisco street area across the "ocean" at Paradise Pier and you will get my drift. Lots of space with nothing going on. I propose building a coaster that is THEMED and uses the lake to it's advantage. Whether this means a tunnel into the water and out the other side or just the fear of splashdown as you plummet at it before being swept up and away (maybe a Batman configuration like SFMM)... SOMETHING has to be done to fill in the dead space.

The base is there I think in buildings, but the rides must go. Limo... buh bye. Madness... you maddened me with a boring coaster and long line. GRR.... no bears please, you killed the good ones already in Anaheim.

DisneyFreak2000
07-24-2002, 01:01 AM
It's fun to dream about completely changing the theme over to an America theme, but the reality is it just probably ain't going to happen. When I read these posts, I love whippin out a map and figuring out what they're talking about and thinking "Yeah, that will work it's a good idea." But completely creating almost a different park is simply out of the budget and just isn't worth it.

DCA is going through tough times in it's first few years, but it's getting better and it's starting to become an actual theme park. Right now, they may be butchering the California theme with shows about Hawaii and Pocahontas and Monsters, but they're just using those, you have to remember to pull in the people. As soon as they can pull in the people with the attractions they have, then the butchering of the theme will stop and then they'll start to reconsider making newer and better shows.

Here's what will happen (and this probably will happen):
Flik's Fun Faire will open and it will be a wonderfully themed place for kids and it will probably a nice place to go, but it won't draw in the crowds that much because it's not a "wow" thing.

Then two years later, Tower of Terror will open and I'm sorry this is what Californians have been dying for. Florida has gotten Fantasmic! and many of our good things, and I have been dying for a Tower of Terror of our own and I can't wait until this is open! Even now I get excited because it's going to be something new, brand spanking new. A rehased idea, but phased in a new way.

Then once TOT (Tower of Terror for those of you who are a bit slow) open that will really pull in the crowds. I mean, REALLY yank them in. Then Disney will realize, 'that's where we need to go we're heading in the right direction.'

At that point, they need to keep us hooked. They can get rid of the God awful little character shows like Mickeys Farm and Lilo or whatever is there and spend money on quality shows to keep us in the park like the Aladdin Show in Hyperion, the nighttime lagoon show in Paradise Pier, etc.

Then this park will start on it's way to becoming great. They'll have Tower of Terror, Flik's Fun Faire, Aladdin (on Stage), Luminaria (Year Round, or whatever) and the people will actually start paying full price admission (maybe not $45, because I'm sorry same admission price means it's equal to DL, and it still won't be equal to it yet, but maybe $40 or something) to get here because they will also have Soarin', Screamin', GRR, Millionaire, Animation, Maliboomer, Bugs, Muppets, etc.

Then, they'll need one more thing to last. It could be Rock N Roller Coaster out in the remains of the Timon parking lot or it could be a Little Mermaid based lagoon like from TDS out where MM used to be, etc.

I think it's sort of foolish to say that they need to get rid of these things now, because if they did they would have less of a park. In time when new attractions open, then they'll start to think well the public wants that sort of quality and not what weve had for them over here in Paradise Pier, so they'll revamp it or something. The only attraction I have a problem with in PP is Mullholand because it's so ugly and gawdy. The other attractions are all fine (well they could get themed a bit better, especially the queues). Anyways, that said the real problem with Paradise Pier is it doesn't fit together at all. Just think about what I said, and you'll realize that's the problem. It doesn't fit together. At one point, far away, you see all the rides and it looks charming and quaint. Say you're walking from Avalon Cove around. Well starting at Screamin' it looks all good, but then you come to the Games of the Boardwalk. I'm sorry, I've been to my share of CA boardwalks and they're charming and not tacky like that. You keep going and you have Sun Wheel and Maliboomer and those sort of fit in but then you get to that part in front of the Paradise Pier Hotel where it's just sort of vacant... accept there's something there (wow that sounds wierd, but I order you to understand it). I mean it's like you stepped into a giant postcard or comic book. They need to take all those stores and the ugly facades and make them sort of like beach cottages or something. Make them look good and join them all together. In one cottage you could have the hut and stuff, but make the theming fit. Now, at one end we have a dinosaur and then at the other end we have a giant UFO sign. It's just so overwhelming and BLAH! If they had any money, they'd fix that but I've sorta gotten off topic so I'll get back on...

What I'm trying to say is, and I know I've been babbling on for a while, lol, but they won't tear down the whole park and most likely any of the bad rides until they get good rides up there. They won't change the theme of the park beacuse in general the theme isn't that bad. If you took away the rubber head shows, what would you have? A Disneyfied version of California. The small shows are really all that goes against the theme. The only acception to this is Millionare, and that really isn't a reasonable exception.

So, I give this park until 2007-8. At that time FFF, TOT, the new entertaining shows will open (and maybe another ride) and the park will be a good park. The theme will fit finally and it will all be good. Then once this is all open, they can start filling the holes (small things) to make the park more magical like fixing the berm a bit so you cant see out and making Paradise Pier fit together more and making Sunshine Plaza more welcoming, etc.

DCA will not turn into DA, but rather a better park called DCA. Which fits the California theme.

Edited to add: As kewl as it might be to get a Mrtmiud lagoon, I think that it would be best in the interest of DCAs future to perhaps look into a Mermaid lagoon (or for me to learn how to spell it correctly).

merlinjones
07-24-2002, 05:44 AM
>>Right now, they may be butchering the California theme with shows about Hawaii and Pocahontas and Monsters, but they're just using those, you have to remember to pull in the people. <<

How's that working out for them?