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View Full Version : Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier



Darkbeer
09-18-2007, 04:21 PM
The New York Times has changed its policy, and now allows free access to much of their archives online (1923 thru 1980 is still a fee-based archive).

So let's go back and check out a very interesting comment made.



http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802E5DA113EF932A25751C0A9679C8B 63




At Paradise Pier, Disney officials acknowledge that the rides lack the imaginative spin on which the company prides itself -- California Screamin' is, plain and simple, a high-speed roller coaster with a superfast start (0 to 55 m.p.h. in four seconds), and the Maliboomer shoots riders 180 feet in the air and then gives them, and the agitated contents of their stomachs, a momentary sense of weightlessness as the carriages plummet. But officials said they felt the attractions fit into the park because they add some spice to a place that risks, if anything, being too laid back. (You can literally watch bread bake at the Boudin Bakery.)

''We always said we would never do rides sans some imaginative twist,'' said Barry Braverman, the senior vice president of Walt Disney Imagineering and the park's design overseer. ''We would say, 'That's our competitors' business.' But when you consider the whole design here, it works.''



Well, I guess it didn't work, and why both Bob Iger and Tom Staggs are starting to talk about the increased capital investment in DCA.

Can't wait to see how the project turns out.

cstephens
09-18-2007, 04:40 PM
Yeah, let's talk about an article that was published more than 6 years ago. :rolleyes:

I guess the dead horse will never stop getting its beatings.

disneyhound
09-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Yeah, let's talk about an article that was published more than 6 years ago. :rolleyes:

I guess the dead horse will never stop getting its beatings.

Huh? I don't think that was the idea of this post.

I enjoyed reading the article! They called the Superstar Limo correctly...

DizneyMommy
09-18-2007, 08:08 PM
Wow, was that writer on point or what? Funny how it took Disney this much time to figure out on their own what the rest of the world already knew!

Bytebear
09-18-2007, 09:04 PM
a while back I did a google search on DCA and there were some really fun articles from the year it opened. I love reading the initial reviews.

Jon
09-18-2007, 10:44 PM
Good article. They were right-on about Soarin'. It's still my favorite ride in DCA.

I loved the jab about how park-goers can "literally watch bread bake". DCA is not exactly action-packed. If I only had one day, would I go there instead of Disneyland? Heck no. Would I pay $20 extra for a park hopper to see it? Maybe not. But do I go there as a pass holder? You betcha. All the time. If nothing else, I think everyone can agree California Adventure is a lot more fun than the parking lot that used to be there. ;)

danyoung
09-19-2007, 07:00 AM
Yeah, let's talk about an article that was published more than 6 years ago. :rolleyes: I guess the dead horse will never stop getting its beatings.

Y'know, I've taken Darkbeer to task in the past for being overly negative about DCA. But in this case I think this article is a very telling look into the mindset of the park's designers. They didn't understand that attraction theming is EVERYTHING in a Disney park. They also thought that high-priced dining was going to be enough to bring in the crowds. On both counts, they were wrong.

Walt'sbirthdaygirl
09-19-2007, 07:02 AM
Thanks Darkbeer. I remember the first time we walked into DCA, shortly after 9/11 and there wasn't a soul in the place. WE had the run of the park rode everything several times and as we walked to the car noted that it was a load of fun, but sure happy we didnt wait on line for any of those rides. M

We've grown to really like DCA, and cannot wait for the improvements, changes, its nice to have a second park to go into, I have high hopes and great expectations :).

itig
09-19-2007, 11:02 AM
We've grown to really like DCA, and cannot wait for the improvements, changes, its nice to have a second park to go into, I have high hopes and great expectations :).

My thoughts exactly...I am one of those odd folks that likes to go to DCA and spend some time. No, it's not DL, but it has a different appeal for me and I still catch a bit of the Disney magic here and there. Really looking forward to the improvements!

Jim Dear and Darling
09-19-2007, 12:49 PM
Thanks Darkbeer for posting that article. Interesting!!

Darkbeer
09-19-2007, 01:21 PM
This quote remains me of a powerpoint presentation I was given years ago, but it matches up with the Barry Braverman Quote very nicely...

http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?t=13373

I highly recommend you go read the points made in the WDI presentation.

And don't forget, MousePlanet does not like folks to post in old threads, so if you have any comments about the Powerpoint presentation, please do it here in this current thread. Thanks.

Darkbeer
09-19-2007, 01:23 PM
Here is another quote from Barry Braverman made in February of 2001, this time in the LA Times, the article was titled "The Most Jam-Packed Theme Park on Earth?"




In designing California Adventure, Disney Imagineers worked backward from the projected attendance level of 7 million a year, said Barry Braverman, Disney's chief creative supervisor on the project.

Disney designers used industrial engineering models to determine how many rides, shows, restaurants, parades and restrooms would be needed to accommodate the expected crowds. But because the park has fewer attractions than Disneyland, there's a smaller margin of error. If a couple of major rides malfunction on a busy day, Braverman said, "We'll just have to count on the [live] entertainment being good."

Another Dimension
09-19-2007, 07:21 PM
Erp!!



Yeah.... spending an extra 15-25 million dollars to make an Intamin 'never-done-before-track-layout' (yet repeatedly called off-the shelf by some ignorant factions), LIM-launched, single looper 2000s steel coaster to look exactly like a 1940s-era woodie isn't adding some imaginative twist or any imaginative twist at all in some peoples POV... that WDI is famous for.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Anyone who thinks Cali has NO THEMING and that the general public (myself & other Disney fans included) is that pathetically stupid, really should run for public office.
Because they are near-insane and don't represent me or my views at all.
:rolleyes:


I don't care what Barry said then and I don't care what Barry said now....

Many people LOVE that park.

Many many people LOVE DL but want also want MANY changes to that supposedly perfect themepark...

That doesn't mean everyone who wants parts of DL torn down and a billion lavished on it are wholly correct in their opinions....
:p


Live with it.

Live with the fact not everyone else agrees with every word you and/or specific others say.
No matter how frequently the same dead horse is beaten.


:cool:

danyoung
09-20-2007, 04:34 AM
Hey, Another Dimension - what's with the attitude? Online forums are all about discussion. You've got your point, Darkbeer has his. A couple of smiley faces don't take out the giant chip on your shoulder in the last post. Very nasty, very unnecessary.

Darkbeer
09-20-2007, 04:39 AM
Let's do some math...

First we need to come up with a starting number, I have seen, $1.1 Billion, $1.2 Billion and even $1.3 Billion over 10 years (above and beyond the costs of Toy Story Mania! and The Wonderful World of Color Lagoon Show, which is at least $120 million more, maybe more).

But lets use the $1.2 Billion number, which is the most common number.

That is $120 Million a year.

Or over $325,000 a day!

And lets say that 6 million guests visit DCA a year.

That is basically $20 per person, per visit.

And while there are a few full priced tickets sold, most folks get in on discounted tickets, starting with the free ones, comps, CM and their sign-ins. Then you have the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for FREE!" SoCal offer, the 2008 offer of geting "2 days free" with a purchase of a 3 day ParkHopper or longer (can be less than $28 per day), and then the AP's, which for a low example of 10 days a year for a SoCal, and 20 days for a Deluxe/Premium AP holder, that is around $20 a day on average.

And yes, some profit is made on the food and merchandise sold in the park.

But at the current pricing schedule, the investment will not return a profit for the first few years...

And don't forget you still have to pay for the original cost of DCA, the upgrades since 2001, and all the daily costs including repairs, labor and electricity, plus many other expenses.