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Berry Princess
06-09-2001, 10:38 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I am tired of things being shut down that are part of what makes Disneyland. I found out yesterday (Friday 6/8) when I was at Disneyalnd and going to see the show with my 3 yr old son that there is now an offical closing date for the Playhouse. It is the day after Labor Day. I talked to a CM about it and the CMs at the attration at NOT happy about it. They want the word out to complain to City Hall and make sure they are writing it down and not just listening. Please go see it when you visit. The attendance needs to stay up. I am glad to see CMs taking such a stand about the whole thing. They have given suggestions for what can be done instead of getting rid of the bears but they won't listen to them. So we need to make all the voices heard and maybe they will listen then. I know that my 3 yr old loves seeing that show every time we go and I don't want to have to try to explain why its gone to him and see him in tears cause of it. I'm sure other kids would be the same way too. I was told the Pooh ride would be similar to Tokyo's but with cardboard cutouts. The CMs even suggested the rip out the arcade and push things back a little over there and you can build the ride and make the Pooh Corner shop bigger and have it where the ride exits into the shop. Which you would think they would want that since they want to sell you on so much stuff but that wasn't even good enough for them. Pressler and all those higher ups need to be stopped. Otherwise our Disneyland will no longer be the Disneyland we have known it to be since we were little kids going there. The CMs want to do a petion without getting in trouble which is kind of hard but I am hoping they find a way. Please get word out about the closing date and let people know to do something and speak up about not wanting it to close. That is all I have to say about this for now. Thanks for reading. :)

Napsto
06-09-2001, 01:19 PM
sorry but i am ready for something new!

CaliforniaCrazy
06-09-2001, 06:11 PM
Well if you feel about it that way, why not let them take out the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Carribean, or any other classic attraction at Disneyland? It seems to me the only reason that they are going to put in a Pooh ride anyway is to hawk more Pooh merchandise (As if there isn't enough.) I have loved the Country Bears for years, and I always try to see it as much as I can when I visit Disneyland. Now to hear they will replace it? that makes my heart sink so low. I will try to get to Disneyland as soon as I can to register acomplaint about this, and I hope others will follow too so we will not see Disneyland lose another one of it's treasures. Thank you for listening.

Berry Princess
06-09-2001, 06:39 PM
Cali is right. Why not another ride then? These things are what help to make Disneyland what it is. Not to be mean or anything but Napsto you sound like Pressler. There are so many little kids that love the Country Bear show..including my son. I love seeing how kids are when they watch that. It is one of the best feelings you could have. Napsto do you have kids? Not just kids love seeing that show...adults do too. It is part of our Disneyland. We do need to do what we can to make sure it stays. They could put a Pooh ride in somewhere else. It is totally all about the merchandise and nothing more. Its not about making the people that visit that place happy. Its about the money now to those in charge. I for one don't want a ride with a bunch of cardboard cut-outs. They have enough of those and can do better then that nowadays. Here is the link to the site for Saving the Country Bear Jamboree. I got it thanks to Paul Barrie.
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Location/4780/save_country_bear.html

Please do what you can to help. Think about it. They take this away they will take other classics away that you might love Napsto or anyone else reading this. That link tells you what you can do to help and how you can. Remember that next time it could be a ride you love more then anything else that is taken away.

Napsto
06-09-2001, 10:13 PM
hold on guys, you can't but the country bears on the same level as Haunted Mansion and Pirates. they are totally different, that is like comparing filet mingon to a beef patty. you just can't!

Lost Boy
06-09-2001, 10:26 PM
Napsto, you are so wrong. The Country Bears is every much a class act and belongs in the same catagory as Pirates and Mansion. It has more A/A figures than any other attraction at Disneyland, and it is a great show. The Christmas Show is even better. Think about what you are saying. This attraction was one of Walt Disney's personal favorites and was designed by Marc Davis. You can't get much better than that. Plus, you get to sit down in an air conditioned theater and watch a very funny and musical show.

KEEP THE BEARS. THERE IS TOO MUCH POOH!!!

Morrigoon
06-09-2001, 10:35 PM
I disagree Napsto

Country Bears are exclusively park creations, like pirates or the mansion. They are audio-animatronics, like pirates, mansion and tiki room. Its an attraction that has NO scary parts, is entertaining to children, an requires only 2 CMs to run (3 if you include breaks). All they need to do to Country Bears is freshen it up, maybe write a new show to coincide with the movie coming out. Failing all else, DCA could use a Disney-quality attraction. I know it needs a new show like Eisner needs a new yes man, but if they kept the bears, and just moved the show to DCA, I would let the issue rest. Perhaps they could write a California themed show to replace the summer vacation show they have now. Keep some of the old songs, like On the Road Again, but put in slides of Wendell and his family visiting places in California (I'm imagining a picture of Wendell hopping around with a Pismo Beach clam clamped onto his foot, etc... lots of room for humor there). Obviously California Bears could stay in the show. Add in a few new ditties, maybe a song about miners or the goldrush? Henry could sing I Left My Heart In San Francisco, Teddi Bearra could do Do You Know The Way To San Jose, and Liver Lips (that's the Elvis bear, right?) could do I Love LA. There's so much potential there!

I'd like to keep the bears the way they are, but I recognize that Disneyland is a fluid environment, and change must happen... but you can change the bears without eliminating them entirely!

CaliforniaCrazy
06-09-2001, 10:38 PM
There are plenty of other places to put the Winnie the Pooh attraction. Like berry princess said, they can build it in the old Skyway area, in Fantasyland. They do not have to tear down a classic just to save money, but in this day and age, I guess that is Disney's favorite thing to do. I know that the Haunted Mansion or Pirates don't compare to Country Bears, but it has been a testament to the technology of Audio-Animatronics. And plus, the songs are really great. I don't know anyone who has not clapped along to The Great Outdoors or Ronkytonk. Taking the characters out would make me feel like losing a part of my family. Of course, I would feel the same way about Haunted Mansion or Pirates. I love those attractions just as much, and I would be very upset if they ever took those out too.

SimpTwister
06-09-2001, 11:19 PM
Woohoo! Go Morrigoon!

That California Country Bears concept borders on genius...

Morrigoon
06-09-2001, 11:46 PM
Why thank you!

I've got a brain full of this stuff!

(sigh) But no one asks me what I think!

MintJulep
06-10-2001, 12:17 AM
For what it's worth, I love Disneyland, it has a fond place in my heart. I have wonderful memories of the CBJ. I remember that as a kid I would listen to my official album, particularly the CBJ track that was on there. Even as a teenager, I mean young adult, I enjoyed and still do enjoy the show, but it is obvious that the show that I saw a year ago is different than the show that I saw a week ago.

They both had the same scripts, the same fun tunes, and the same great audience response at the end of the performance. (On a side note: it never fails to amaze me how people almost give a standing ovation to a bunch of performers that are no more than mechanical devices) The difference between the two shows is that the more recent one doesn't look nearly as good as the one a year ago. I'm sure that the bears recieve more attention than most Disneyland attractions as animatronic figures require a lot a matainance. Back in the day, I'm sure that every single thing that needed to be addressed with the bears was fixed immediately, as they had to have been an incredible investment. Jump to the status quo: 1. The Bears are no longer an E ticket; 2. The majority of the parkgoing public has decided that they've seen the show once and believe that it was enought; 3. It's the same show over and over... No matter how much you enjoy it, or how much your three year old enjoys it now, give the situation three more years, and your three year-old will probably abandon it for Pirates or Mansion or Jungle Cruise.

There is the argument that even though this kid will evenutually lose his/her love for the attraction there will be another kid that will come along that will also love the attraction. But how long can this go on? It doesn't look like Disney is going to update the show; ever. If the attraction continues to exist, it will only exist in a state of disrepair. Budget cutting is taking it's toll all over the park, and well, it's hitting the bears fairly hard.

I would rather have the Bears than Pooh, but likewise, I would rather have two shut down theatres in Bear Country than an attraction running poorly. The general public understands that attractions come and go at Disneyland. They know that they only visit Disneyland when there is something new to go look at. If a guest goes to Disneyland, and goes to the bears in it's current state, it's going to do far more harm than good to the Disney show as a whole. The guest will remember a bad experience over a good one.

People constantly cry out for "Good Show." It is in the best interest of Disney to replace the bears with something new. Disney missed it's chance to save the show, too many people have seen it one too many times, or have been unimpressed by the show because of it's condition.

All of you who think that the bears should be saved, more power to ya. With Disney, you have to choose your battles, I just don't find the bears a worthy cause, I think that more good will come through change. At the very least, any change, whether it be closing down the show or opening Pooh, it will uphold the stanards of what we like to call Good Show. And as with all of the other Disneyland attractions that are no longer with us, we will have fond memories to keep with us forever of the Country Bears...

~Minty Mike

p.s. When I was referring to the three year old, I didn't mean to single out or chastize or be mean to any of the posters here, I was just using a previously stated argument to illustrate a point.

JeffG
06-10-2001, 07:47 AM
This attraction was one of Walt Disney's personal favorites and was designed by Marc Davis.

While it is true that Marc Davis designed the attraction and that Walt did see and approve some of the early sketches, it is a bit of a stretch to call it one of Walt's "personal favorites". The show debuted several years after Walt's death and it is very unlikely he ever saw anything other than the early concept art.

Every attraction at the park has its fans and someone is always going to be disappointed by any closure. There is so much passion among Disneyland's biggest fans that protests are inevitable whenever the closure of an older attraction is suggested.

The reality is that Disneyland is a small park with limited room for expansion. If they never replaced anything, it wouldn't take long for the park to reach a point where space was no longer available. It wouldn't be long after that before the park grew stagnant and started to lose popularity.

Yes, it is likely that there are other places that the Pooh attraction could be put. Would it theme as well in other parts of the park, though? Would using other spaces for the Pooh attraction result in there being no place to eventually put other attractions that might theme to those surroundings better?

I do have a fair amount of affection for the Country Bears as well, but I also feel that it is an attraction that time has not treated kindly. At the very least, the show itself desperately needs some upgrading to better fit into today's sensibilities. The animatronics really also would need a major technical overhaul to make the show truly Disney-quality again. As it stands now, the show is mainly interesting as the prototype for what kids now see regularly at themed pizza restaurants. It really is a tough question whether or not it would really be the wisest investment to upgrade this show.

One other important point to remember is that this show isn't even a Disneyland original. This is one of the few major attractions that debuted at Florida's Magic Kingdom. For a number of reasons, it still attracts larger crowds in Florida. If the show deserves to be preserved for historical reasons, it should probably be in Florida. They have the room for it (there isn't much space to put something else in where their theater is anyway) and they have the first version anyway. I'd rather see Disneyland's historical preservation interests focused on actual Disneyland originals like the Tiki Room.

-Jeff

merlinjones
06-10-2001, 07:54 PM
>>The reality is that Disneyland is a small park with limited room for expansion. If they never replaced anything, it wouldn't take long for the park to reach a point where space was no longer available. It wouldn't be long after that before the park grew stagnant and started to lose popularity.<<

This is not "reality", but oft-repeated party-line "wisdom". There is plenty of room to expand Disneyland without affecting signature attractions, especially for minor attractions like Pooh.

And why construct such an extreme argument anyway? there ARE things that could be replaced and never missed! Fantasyland Theatre could be torn out and double the size of Fantasyland without anyone significantly complaining, as it not home to a "permanent" attraction rooted in childhood nostalgia (and DCA has a theatre for such things). Same could be said of the Motor Boat Cruise area, which is long dormant.

All this CBJ closure is about is not increasing "overhead". If they want a multi day experience at the resort, Disneyland itself will have to be expanded to provide even more to do.


>>Yes, it is likely that there are other places that the Pooh attraction could be put. Would it theme as well in other parts of the park, though? Would using other spaces for the Pooh attraction result in there being no place to eventually put other attractions that might theme to those surroundings
better? <<

Pooh does not theme well to Critter Country at all. Pooh is a British bear living in an English imaginary Wood. As such, the ride should rightly transition between Fantasyland and Frontierland (due to its imaginary forest setting), not be placed solidly in the American Frontier - - the home to all of the other Frontierland, NOS and Critter Country themes.

Pooh does not belong on the west side at all, but would be perfect in the Fantasyland location now occupied by the closed Skyway Chalet. Other superior locales would be the aforementioned Fantasyland Theatre site. And even better, Pooh could be a rehab of the Motor Boat Cruise area, perhaps with an added interior show building back by Small World (the only reason not to do this is if they actually plan on putting Mermaid there someday, as this is the best locale for her ride).

Gauchograd99
06-10-2001, 08:06 PM
I agree that the placement of Pooh in Critter Country just does not work. Simply put the company wants to remove some overhead for a while and put in a new ride to show they care about the park instead of fixing what needs to be done. They could put Pooh in the transition from Fantasyland to Frontierland in the old BBQ area and maybe sort of hide the ride in a themed English Wood area.. and they would have enough space for the stores (what they want) or another ride (what the people would want). Perhaps they could either make a new "land" or just make it an offshoot of Fantasyland.

Just ideas... any comments?

Morrigoon
06-10-2001, 08:28 PM
Okay, I think someone really touched on something here: Motor Boat Cruise area

While personally, I would like to see a rebuilt pirate ship put there... I could also see it as a perfect spot for Pooh. It's in the back part of Fantasyland, near Small World (justifying its international beginnings) and transitions toward Toontown anyway. They can use the existing motor boat track, and just build the honey pot boats to utilize that track. The queue area is already build (fantasia gardens) and they could rip out part of the light magic ;) viewing area to build their shop. There's plenty of trees around there already so it would take little expense to make it woodsy, and since the Matterhorn is European too, who's to complain about theming? The perfect fit, really. Add some weather resistant AA's, like Jungle has, build each of the characters' houses along the banks, and Voila! You have a whole new ride, on time and under budget for pressler, appropriate and entertaining enough for us! I would not object to a Pooh ride if it used that space (even though there's WAY too much pooh!)

Gauchograd99
06-10-2001, 08:40 PM
I realize that this is a bit out of left field but.. Isn't Disney in litigation over the use of Pooh? Why would you start production on a ride that you may not be able to use at all???

80S ERA
06-11-2001, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>The reality is that Disneyland is a small park with limited room for expansion. If they never replaced anything, it wouldn't take long for the park to reach a point where space was no longer available. It wouldn't be long after that before the park grew stagnant and started to lose popularity.<<



Although I hate to see some of the attractions of my childhood and teen memories close down for good, I know that the park must be updated to keep up with the times. Anyone who has tried writing an email to Disneyland Resort in regards to an attraction shutting down always get the same, template response: "Walt Disney once said, Disneyland will never be completed as long as there is imagination left in the world...." etc, etc..

So I really don't have a problem with attractions being replaced by better, more updated ones...

BUT - how often is a "classic" attraction replaced by a "better" one?

Examples: (Former - Replacement)
America Sings - Innoventions?
PeopleMover - RocketRods?
Rocket Jets - Still don't know what you call that new "thing"
Swiss Family Treehouse - Tarzan's Treehouse?

Many of them aren't replaced by an attraction at all....
Mission to Mars (Red Rocket's Pizza Port)
Circle Vision
Skyway
Motor Boats
Submarine Voyage

There is only one instance where I didn't have a problem with an attraction being replaced....
Adventures Thru Innerspace - Star Tours

-----------------

This reminds me of an idea ($$$)... Disney might be able to to "keep" these classics and make money at the same time. You listening Eisner and company? The attractions could be videotaped (in full) and burned on DVD before the permanent closing, then sold in a similar manner as "Disneyland Forever" CD's. I personally would be willing to pay up to $25 for a professional DVD taping of classics of the past such as InnerSpace, Capt EO, Mission to Mars, and others! The Country Bears could also be viewed on DVD after closing...

What do you guys think?
:confused:

PirateoftheCaribbean
06-11-2001, 07:38 AM
I just wanted to share a funny/sad story. I was sitting on a bench near the Bears eating fries from the Hungry Bear, when I overgeard a child and his mom talking. The mom said, "Let's go on the Country Bears. This is one of my favorites." The child, 10 or 12, answered, "I hate them! Let's go on Innoventions again.":eek:

merlinjones
06-11-2001, 09:01 AM
>>I realize that this is a bit out of left field but.. Isn't Disney in litigation over the use of Pooh? Why would you start production on a ride that you may not be able to use at all???<<

Disney just completed a HUGE cash deal with the holding company that controls the rights to Winnie-the-Pooh (AA Milne's designated heirs to the property).

The deal gives Disney the rights to exploit Pooh for the next (roughly) twenty years until the copyright expires and the characters enter public domain.

With this major expenditure, Pooh is on the front burner as they have to make this money back - - and profit to boot! This deal is apparrently more important that hyping the Country Bears movie. Odd, when they could have both by relocating Pooh, but are apparrently too cheap to build a new structure. I say put Pooh in the Motor Boat Cruise!

Flubber
06-11-2001, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
Okay, I think someone really touched on something here: Motor Boat Cruise area

Didn't Pooh and Piglet have a little river adventure? Sure they did. So guest cruise the floodwaters in spinning honeypots (think teacups here) and pass Piglet floating downriver on a chair, Christopher Robin and Pooh playing poohsticks off a bridge, Eyeore floating along the river on his back, Tigger stuck in a tree etc. Maybe even a little black raincloud trying to be inconspicuous as it floats overhead.


and they could rip out part of the light magic viewing area to build their shop.

Spot on Morrigoon! A shop, small meet and greet area, and a parade viewing strip could all fit there and make better use of that space.

The only drawback to this location is the monorail overhead. Didn't bother me on the motorboats though!

Flub

merlinjones
06-11-2001, 03:44 PM
>>The only drawback to this location is the monorail overhead. Didn't bother me on the motorboats though! <<

I'll bet with some creative thought, the monorail beams could be partly camouflaged from the POV of the ride with some well placed trees and overhead brambles.

The river can be the story of the flood with an added show building behind to do the Heffalumps and Woozles dream.

Morrigoon
06-11-2001, 09:14 PM
You GO merlinjones! I knew Medfield College kept you around for a reason.

Love the Heffalumps and Woozles showbuilding idea. I think they could also do Rabbit's house and garden and put in that cute little gopher-stealing-the-carrots bit like they have in Mickey's house.

And the Pooh Holiday redo would be easy... add a bit of fake snow and scarves on the characters, some xmas lights and voila!

Also liked the brambles hiding the monorail track thing.

Mr D
06-11-2001, 09:37 PM
So in the end or shall I say the beginning? For all of those wanting the Pooh ride do you realize what you are asking for? Think of SSL in a honeypot ride, is that what you really want? Or is the ones wanting a pooh ride like to see just a change in the scenery? If and IF is such a big word we get a stripped down cannibalized retro/analog style Pooh ride that is about as much compared to the Tokyo Pooh thats its about as much compared as the Mercury capsule to the Space Shuttle!.....Really, do your research supporters of Pooh vs. Bears and look at the facts and the trend of spending that we have seen, look at how long Roger Rabbit has been down and as a sidenote still , may the Zucker family have hope yet for a full recovery of little Brian, will this create a better critter country? Pooh belongs in Fantasyland and if it means taking out one of the original rides from DL opening days so be it, Not Toad though, I would back it up completely. I saw the Country Bear jamboree for the first time in my life last December with my children, we loved it and we want to look towards seeing it again, Bears is very much part of critter Country, is Pooh? Just because disney paid I think somewhere in the ballpark of $90 million ( correct me please) for the rights to Pooh, does that condone ripping out a long time favorites attraction, possiblibly rewriting the theme to Splash Mountain, re-designing The Bears kitchen to look like a ChukkieRatz eatery? Lets petition DL any way we can, keep the Bears and put Winnie where it should go, somewhere else.

zapppop
06-11-2001, 10:16 PM
I saw the show just a week ago and there were no more than 12 people in the whole theater !

Look, I like them but The Bears no longer attract a crowd. Critter County would be dead without Splash Mountain. Personally I don't like Winnie The Pooh, but a new ride based on him would be better.

Rides like The Haunted Mansion, Pirates Of The Caribbean, and shows like The Main Street Electrical Parade last for years because they continue to captivate an audience. The Bears just can't seem to do it anymore.


If any of you are really upset about anything related to Disneyland, all you have to do to get your way is to complain in person, complain in numbers, complain often, and don't open your wallet.

merlinjones
06-11-2001, 10:26 PM
>>Rides like The Haunted Mansion, Pirates Of The Caribbean, and shows like The Main Street Electrical Parade last for years because they continue to captivate an audience. The Bears just can't seem to do it anymore. <<

All CBJ needs is a new show to tie in with the movie, featuring a few new effects and surprises. As a concept it isn't any more stale than the Muppets over at DCA. Freshen the show, save the superior asset.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater like they did in Tomorrowland!