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merlinjones
07-08-2002, 04:25 PM
DCA's more glamorous and successful cousin has reached a milestone (that could have been acheived here too with similar high quality escapist Disney product):

>>Walt Disney Co.'s newest amusement park in Japan welcomed its ten-millionth visitor since opening last year — reaching the milestone in the shortest time recorded so far, a spokeswoman said Monday.

The new mark came Sunday, 307 days after the DisneySea amusement park's Sept. 4 opening, said Oriental Land Co. spokeswoman Marie Iwamoto.<<


Ah, well. Ten Million people have probably passed DCA's gates too... on their way to Disneyland!


;)

Gemini Cricket
07-08-2002, 04:27 PM
If you build it wrong, they won't come.
:)

Iceman
07-08-2002, 07:40 PM
How many of you people who herald TDS as the be-all, end-all of theme parks as use it as another excuse to bash DCA have even BEEN to TDS?

merlinjones
07-08-2002, 08:40 PM
>>How many of you people who herald TDS as the be-all, end-all of theme parks as use it as another excuse to bash DCA have even BEEN to TDS?<<

I haven't been there yet - - but just looking at pictures of TDS is more entertaining and rewarding than actually visiting DCA, so I'm quite content so far.

Actually, though, I think Walt's original Disneyland was the be-all, end-all of amusement parks - - at least before alot of the cool rides were taken out and Tomorrowland was spoiled. I really hope they don't ruin the classics with this anniversary scheme...:crying:

cstephens
07-08-2002, 10:32 PM
Wow. I am truly amazed at some people's ingenuity. Post something that's completely and totally about Tokyo DisneySeas in the Disneyland section, but hide it under a DCA thread title and use it solely as another opportunity to bash DCA.

I constantly marvel at the lengths some people will go to just to bash DCA.

Uncle Dick
07-09-2002, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by cstephens
Wow. I am truly amazed at some people's ingenuity. Post something that's completely and totally about Tokyo DisneySeas in the Disneyland section, but hide it under a DCA thread title and use it solely as another opportunity to bash DCA.
Actually, I think this thread does have some validity in the Disneyland Resort section. merlinjones is clearly attempting to draw a link between his perceived quality of DCA vs TDS and the attendance numbers both parks draw.

WDWalways
07-09-2002, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Actually, though, I think Walt's original Disneyland was the be-all, end-all of amusement parks - - at least before alot of the cool rides were taken out and Tomorrowland was spoiled. I really hope they don't ruin the classics with this anniversary scheme...:crying:

You enjoy pony rides???

justagrrl
07-09-2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by cstephens
I constantly marvel at the lengths some people will go to just to bash DCA.

No kidding. Get over it already. We know how you feel.

Imagine if all the people that do like DCA we're frequently creating threads just to say how fabulous it was...or how much fun we have...or how much everything sucks but DCA DCA DCA. It would get a little old.

Yes, we know that by comparison to a different park across the world, it's not as nice. But this is what you've got. Don't like it. Don't go. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.

RStar
07-09-2002, 08:03 AM
Jeesh, some people are so sensitive!;) Merlinjones wasn't bashing anything. I think he brings up a good point.

I see no problem with making a comparison with two new Disney Theme parks! The point Merlinjones makes about how quickly a properly built park catches on compared to one not done right is valid. TDS has been open less than a year while DCA has been open nearly 17 months now. And DCA has probably only had 3 million visitors if lucky.

TDS got better funding from the Oriental Land Company, but money means little when themeing is all wrong. :mad:
And Japan may have more people, and the Asian tourists went there rather than here.

merlinjones
07-09-2002, 08:21 AM
>>Imagine if all the people that do like DCA we're frequently creating threads just to say how fabulous it was...or how much fun we have...or how much everything sucks but DCA DCA DCA. It would get a little old.<<

Well, there was a big rash of these very types of posts about a month or two ago, as I remember and quite strident in tone.

But that's fine with me... It's all good for debate, I think! Open discourse is the key to all solutions, especially here. Otherwise we'd have a fascist state like over at alt.disney.disneyland. Viva la difference!


>>Yes, we know that by comparison to a different park across the world, it's not as nice. But this is what you've got. Don't like it. Don't go. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.<<

My money is in my mouth. I have never paid for admission to DCA.

However, if they had built DisneySea here, I'd be spending a fortune hanging out there, guaranteed. Somehow, I think Disney might be interested in getting my money out of my mouth (and others)...

The important thing about repetitive spin is that the message does not become diluted through time and complancency (the short attention span of the US public and media has made politicians and corporations dependant on this factor). Sorry you are bored, but...

If we want to see better things at the park in the future, this level of disapproval of Tomorrowland and DCA must be continually reinforced. Otherwise they'll just think it's blown over (it hasn't) and do it again. There are major lessons to be learned here that affect future operations, not just the ones that have already happened. I'd like to see Disneyland preserved and upgraded, not whittled down further for greed.

This E-ticket redo plan has all the earmarks of a big idea that will be underbudgeted and ruin those rides with a slipshod effort (based on Tomorrowland or DCA's example). I'd hate to see that happen... We are living history - - still time to make things right (at the Magic Kingdom anyway...).

papajorgio
07-09-2002, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by cstephens
Wow. I am truly amazed at some people's ingenuity. Post something that's completely and totally about Tokyo DisneySeas in the Disneyland section, but hide it under a DCA thread title and use it solely as another opportunity to bash DCA.

I constantly marvel at the lengths some people will go to just to bash DCA.

word.
i think dca will be awesome in 10 years, just like mgm.

nick.

merlinjones
07-09-2002, 10:36 AM
>>i think dca will be awesome in 10 years, just like mgm.<,

Wow! Are they going to spring for a massive infrastructure and layout redesign? MGM was always attractive at least.

RStar
07-09-2002, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>i think dca will be awesome in 10 years, just like mgm.<,

Wow! Are they going to spring for a massive infrastructure and layout redesign? MGM was always attractive at least.

I think they will have to, don't you think? Of course it will be a little at a time over the next ten years, with rehabs and such, doing a little infrastructure here and there trying to fix what they should have done in the first place. The Lagoon is a prime example of that. I don't know if they can do much with the main layout, but in ten years time I bet it will look like a whole different place ( that is unless they close it and start all over from scratch, and there are too many egos in the way of that).

Iceman
07-09-2002, 11:40 AM
The thing that is annoyingly repetitive is the ire with which people disdain DCA. I don't know why, other than to think they must love to complain, people expend so much negative energy on that park. "The theme is all wrong", "It needs a massive infrastructure and layout redesign", "If it was TDS I'd be there all the time", etc. For what it's worth, I just as strongly feel in a positive sense that the California theme is just fine and that the park is smartly laid out.

So maybe I will inundate merlinjones and others in that camp with my repetitive spin. Sorry you are bored, but...

If we want to see better things at the park in the future, this level of approval of DCA must be continually reinforced. Otherwise they'll just think it's blown over (it hasn't) and keep complaining. There are major lessons to be learned here that affect future operations, not just the ones that have already happened. I'd like to see Disneyland preserved and upgraded, not whittled down by nay-sayers and cynics.

merlinjones
07-09-2002, 12:06 PM
>>I'd like to see Disneyland preserved and upgraded, not whittled down by nay-sayers and cynics.<<

If you mean the people who currently run the Walt Disney Company? I agree!

innerSpaceman
07-09-2002, 12:25 PM
I don't want to have to wait 10 years for a theme park to get into decent shape. That's ridiculous.

Even TDS is a little short on attractions, but it has been gorgeously and elaborately themed from Day One. MGM was the same way - virtually nothing to do on opening day, but quite an attractive looking park. (It's still a half day piece of fluff, in my opinion, but that's another subject).

In my view, it's bad enough to open parks when they are not nearly finished, adding the 6 or 7 big attractions that make the park complete over a few subsequent years. But if it takes a full decade to make a park complete, then that park is a miserable failure. DCA may or may not be wonderful in 10 years, but think of what a marval TDS will be by that time! When you're lightyears ahead out of the starting gate, it's tough for competitors to ever catch up.

As for the dragging on of comparisons between the new Tokyo and Anaheim parks, the Disney Co. INVITED such with the nearly simultaneous openings of pure magic and pure garbage. Tired of hearing complaints about DCA? Well, as soon as it's wiped off the face of the earth, negative reaction to the park on Disney-talk message boards will cease.

80S ERA
07-09-2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>i think dca will be awesome in 10 years, just like mgm.<,

MGM was always attractive at least.

Not to mention it was a success from the first day it opened when it had capacity crowds filling the park.

cstephens
07-09-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Open discourse is the key to all solutions, especially here. Otherwise we'd have a fascist state like over at alt.disney.disneyland. Viva la difference!

While I much prefer discussions here than on a.d.d., it's not true that a.d.d. is fascist. If I recall, fascism necessitates someone being in charge, being the dictator. By the very nature of usenet, no one can stop another person from posting or banning them or revoking their membership, except maybe in extreme criminal cases, but that's different. So, anyone who wants to can contribute whatever they want, for good or bad. Of course, then chaos can also reign, and sometimes, it's like the patients have taken over the asylum. But a.d.d. serves its purpose.

Iceman
07-09-2002, 03:12 PM
There are two camps of people here. Please allow me to generalize:

- The DCA haters. They despise the park. They hate the limited budget, the "good enough for Six Flags" off-the-shelf attractions, the limited number of things to do, the cheap decor. They think it compares unfavorably to TDS and sucks much-needed budget away from DL. They say that for the same admission price as Disneyland it is a total rip-off. They use it as the ultimate example of Disney leadership gone awry, accounting trumping design excellence, and a bad omen of things to come.

- The DCA likers. They enjoy going to the park. They think the California theme is wonderfully diverse, if limited in application at the moment. They admire the views of Paradise Pier and the immersion of the Redwood Creek area. They like having some new dining options and the chance to drink beer or wine in a theme park. They still love Disneyland but appreciate having another place to take family or friends that has the Disney touch when it comes to cleanliness, cast member friendliness, and enjoyable rides. They look at TDS and admire it for what it is, but still appreciate the addition of a fun second gate right here at home. They look at DCA and Downtown Disney as good signs of things to come in Anaheim as Disney is finally realizing their vision of a destination resort here.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, of course (and I especially admire merlinjones who usually uses biting humor in his expressions of distate ;)), but I have to wonder why the haters are so rabid. They seem unable to concede anything good at all about the park. They look for negatives, and that's all they look for, so they find them. The likers, on the other hand, are at least open-minded and balanced. There are things they like and don't like, but overall they enjoy the place. For some reason, though, they don't feel the need to force this positive viewpoint on others. They don't ignore problems or challenges like the haters ignore the wonderful things. THIS is what bothers me about the DCA-bashers--not the fact that they don't like the park, but the fact that they are so self-righteously pious in their total, complete desecration of the place. Do they really think they are chaning anyone else's opinions? Does it just make them feel better to vent the same tired lines over and over? More on my continuing psychoanalysis as I complete it... :D

innerSpaceman
07-09-2002, 04:15 PM
I find Iceman's analysis to be generally on the money, but it does not take into account that individual posts tend to indicate either a love-it or hate-it attitude, whereas a history of a particular person's posts may reveal a more balanced outlook.

For instance, I am firmly in the camp of the DCA haters, but have contributed glowing reports of the things I do in fact like about the park on threads that were primarily pro-DCA. So, it's not purely black and white. I do like certain elements of DCA. As a whole, however, I despise the park. But I am not without the ability to find things that I like about it and to render props to California Adventure for the elements which I enjoy.

MMFan
07-09-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Iceman

but I have to wonder why the haters are so rabid. They seem unable to concede anything good at all about the park. They look for negatives, and that's all they look for, so they find them

After browsing some of the remarks about DCA here and at a handful of other net sites (but mostly elsewhere, since this place is monitored), I think a few more fruit loops seem to be on the pro-DCA side. Sure, there's mental cases out there in general, but after browsing through the aforementioned ADD recently and noting the snottiness and ravings of some who consider DCA to be a very good park, I think more of the anti-DCA ranters will have to work hard to equal the loony reactions found on the other side.


.

merlinjones
07-09-2002, 07:03 PM
>>Everyone's entitled to an opinion, of course (and I especially admire merlinjones who usually uses biting humor in his expressions of distate )<<

Thanks.

>>, but I have to wonder why the haters are so rabid. They seem unable to concede anything good at all about the park. They look for negatives, and that's all they look for, so they find them. <<

Now, I have posted several times the good things about DCA (...and there are some...). Here it goes again:

1) It's free (so far).

2) Soarin' Over California (very cool if you get the good seats and the print is clean)

3) Animation Lobby and Karaoke cave (nice)

4) Blast! (great show, sexy cast)

5) Swings (I always liked them at the fair, even though these don't have such a good view and have ugly bee cut outs stuck around - - I still like to fly!)

6) The Main Street Electrical Parade (which still belongs on Main Street).

8) Screamin' is better than a finger in the eye (if there is no line, but I hate the music).

7) Hmmmm.... Did I mention it was free...?


>>The likers, on the other hand, are at least open-minded and balanced. There are things they like and don't like, but overall they enjoy the place. For some reason, though, they don't feel the need to force this positive viewpoint on others. <<

MMFan was right... you haven't been to ADD, where the DCA defenders are like drooling attack dogs that get WAY personal if you disagree.:eek:

HowardBeale
07-09-2002, 08:05 PM
<MGM was always attractive at least.>

It was? Did you see it opening day? Opening week? Opening Year? It had and still has all the charm and intimacy of Hollywood Pictures Backlot combined with the London street at Universal Studios Hollywood.

Add in the big Mickey Mouse hat and what do you got?

Bib-bi-dee-bob-bi-dee-barf!

cstephens
07-09-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
MMFan was right... you haven't been to ADD, where the DCA defenders are like drooling attack dogs that get WAY personal if you disagree.:eek:

I haven't participated in those discussions on a.d.d., but while I can imagine that the language was much harsher, I don't believe their sentiments were less rabid than the unreasonable DCA haters I've encountered both on these discussion boards and on LaughingPlace's.

coronamouseman
07-09-2002, 09:41 PM
Five or six years from now when the ToT has been open for a couple of years and RnR Coaster for one or two and there is construction underway for some brand new innovative attraction currently not on the drawing boards, many of the same people dissing DCA now will be saying the place ain't so bad now that it has grown up a little .........

Same thing happened with Universal Studios and Disney Studios in Orlando and is happening with Disney's Animal Kingdom now - open the gates, collect the money and add cool stuff later.

It is only the recent events of the openings of IOA and TDS that have ticked people off because the new parks in their locale did not match the quality of those two acknowledgely risky business ventures.

So DCA critics should sit back and let the dust clear for a couple of years before passing final judgement - think of it as the same as watching your kids grow, because the little suckers just don't pop out of the womb as fully conversant and fully toilet-trained adults (ok, so maybe some of them never reach that level but they all have the chance to try!)

So until DCA grows up, go to Knott's or SFMM or even Universal Hollywood if you want lots of attractions and make a beeline back to DCA when ToT brings the park up to speed as an attraction and not simply as an appetizer.