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SweenyTodd
07-08-2002, 03:30 PM
Every time I see Fantasmic!, there's this guy who roams the crowd about a half hour before the show, telling people he's got 5 or 6 extra spaces down in front. It looks like he's laid out blankets or something right down at the river's edge, and usually gets some folks to join him down there for the show.

He's not a cast member (at least, he's not wearing a badge) and I dunno, I get kind of a creepy vibe from him. Is he just some lonely guy looking for company? Is he just being altruistic and helping out some late-comers get the best seats? More to the point, why does Disney crowd control let him get away with reserving all that prime space without actually having anyone with him?

Anyone know who I'm talking about? He usually wears a white baseball cap.

J.

DisneylandBoy
07-08-2002, 04:44 PM
I saw him there too when I saw the second showing of Fantasmic on July 5th. We talked to him for a little bit and he seemed very nice. What he does is he holds a spot right in front and then goes and gets people in the way back to come and sit there during the show. It is a very nice gesture. When I met him I was wondering if he posted here. If you do - please say who you are! It would be great to put a MP name to a face!

RStar
07-08-2002, 05:01 PM
I hope he's not charging for those seats!:eek:

Maybe he just wants to make some one's trip a little extra special.

That would be nice.

Does he serve deserts with those seats?:D

DisneylandKid
07-08-2002, 06:46 PM
Hm...

I'd like to believe that this man is simply doing this to be nice, but, unfortunately, in today's world that is very unlikely. It's a shame...

disguy
07-08-2002, 06:54 PM
Sounds very nice but you just never know these days. I don't really care to sit very close because the mist gets on my glasses (drives me crazy, when I do wear glasses)

DisneylandBoy
07-08-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by DisneylandKid
Hm...

I'd like to believe that this man is simply doing this to be nice, but, unfortunately, in today's world that is very unlikely. It's a shame...

I was watching because I thought the same thing. But nothing tricky seemed to be going on. I really think it is just a nice gesture. I don't know, maybe I'm being too optimistic. :)

justagrrl
07-09-2002, 07:57 AM
Funny how we all get freaked out by random acts of kindness.

Ghoulish Delight
07-09-2002, 08:03 AM
Umm, if, as Sweeney Todd says, he's been there for that many shows and done the same thing, and if he were "up to no good," I think Disney would have caught on by now, no? I mean, he's obviously not inconspicuous. I'm sure the CMs know all about him. If he were trying to charge for the seats, or attempting something nefarious (not sure what you all think he could get away with in the middle of a very large crowd), security would have long ago booted him.

It seems like the guy just wants to give people who do not care to dedicate a large chunk of their already precious time at Disneyland a chance to have excellent seats for the show. Sounds like a nice guy to me.

jason
07-09-2002, 08:20 AM
i know it sound's nice but how about in the hour line up for splash , or matterhorn , or the blistering sun of the autotopia ? not so nice now huh?

some family would have sat there instead of behind a pole if he wasn't holding it . it would be different if he was holing it for some dissabled people who cannot help arriving late , but everyone else is perfectly capable of sitting for several hours to get a spot .

someone walks right in twenty minutes before the show and gets prime seats . thats crap !!!

Ghoulish Delight
07-09-2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by jason
i know it sound's nice but how about in the hour line up for splash , or matterhorn , or the blistering sun of the autotopia ? not so nice now huh?

some family would have sat there instead of behind a pole if he wasn't holding it . it would be different if he was holing it for some dissabled people who cannot help arriving late , but everyone else is perfectly capable of sitting for several hours to get a spot .

someone walks right in twenty minutes before the show and gets prime seats . thats crap !!! I'm not necessarily defending the action. I simply don't think that he's some creep bent on ripping people out of money or some other such thing.

innerSpaceman
07-09-2002, 09:44 AM
I have to agree with Jason that it's misguided generosity. What he is really doing is depriving people who would be willing to wait for the show of a good seat in favor of people who are not willing to wait. I have nothing against random acts of kindness, but this is at the expense of other people. Clearly, there are lots of people willing to wait a long time for good viewing locations. And clearly the amount of good, up-front view spots is severely limited.

So Family "A" from Nebraska can't find a spot at the rail because of some bogus space saved for the non-existent friends of White Cap Man, just so that Family "B" from Iowa can swoop in at the last minute and grab the seats that Family "A" would like to have had the opportunity to wait legitimately for all along.

Frankly, I think the crowd control CMs should put a stop to this guy holding space for non-existent "friends."

Thomas
07-09-2002, 11:19 AM
So what everyone is saying is that it is not OK to hold a space for someone. If someone got their early, got up to go to the bathroom lets say, there spot should become available for anyone, correct? There is no difference in this guy saving spots than a family saving spots while others go on a ride or something.

In that sense, Fastpass is depriving everyone, because people are forced to stand in a standby line when the line could just flow regularly.

Comments, suggestions???? Bring it on!!!!!

Ghoulish Delight
07-09-2002, 11:26 AM
The difference is that the family is saving the space for SOMEONE. Someone they know, someone that will show up. The family plans it, and it's a conscious decision to wait. Whereas the guy is saving it for random people, who make no effort, and who may or may not even take the spot. Those people are being rewarded for just happening by, while a family that might have wanted those spots and tried to make an effort, could not get the spots because he's there saving it for no one.

SweenyTodd
07-09-2002, 11:40 AM
That's silly. Of course it's probably okay to hold a space for someone YOU KNOW (and I only say "probably" here, because I'm not going to get dragged into that quagmire). But that's completely different than just holding any space, then looking for random strangers to fill those spaces.

And fastpass doesn't count. It's a park-run program. We're talking about guest behavior here.

Seriously, my gut feeling is that this guy is trying to be nice. But at the same time I think he's looking for company. There's probably an expected level of "I gave you these great seats, now let's hang out." As odd (and a little sad) as that may be, I'm sure there's nothing more nefarious than that going on.

And as to whether the Disneyland staff would have noticed this guy and stopped him, I'm not so sure. Again, a topic for another discussion but here's a few examples of where I think their crowd control falls short:

1) Ever seen the Fireworks from in front of the Castle? What on earth persuades someone to think that they can mosey through that crowd during the height of the show? People are trying to enjoy the show, and some nitwit is still trying to get to Fantasyland through the castle. Where's the crowd control telling people to go around the Partners statue?

2) Towards the end of Fantasmic!, right as the dragon appears, the crowd control guys start taking down the ropes. I'm sorry, but this is really disruptive to the enjoyment of the show, and invariable leads to people standing where they should be sitting, blocking decent views from the standing areas in back . I'm sure they have their reasons, but I hate when they do it.

J

Polar33
07-09-2002, 02:34 PM
I try not to make a habit of defending the actions of guest control but they do have good reason for taking the ropes down before the end of the show. Simply put, there isn't enough time for them to get the ropes down after the show ends before the crowd starts to dispurse. If they don't take down ropes and move the stanctions when they do, the same ropes and stanctions become safety hazords when the tens of thousands of people are trying to get through them.

As far as guest control for "Believe..." I don't see much that they can do. On busier nights they have tried to have a crossing area near Photo Supply, and direct guests around the more crowded areas. But most people just stop dead in their tracks wherever they are when the fireworks begin and those who want to push through the crowds do so anyway.

MactechCM
07-09-2002, 02:46 PM
Being one who has had to do too many of the Guest Control shifts at both Fireworks and Fantasmic!, I can say that people do what they want to, regardless of what we say.

In response to the guest saving spaces - there really isn't a way to know if a guest is holding a spot for friends, or just going to have people show up at the last minute. If I ask a guest, and he says he's reserving it for a friend, realitive, whatever, I have to take him at his word. I do let them know that if the spot is still open within some time period (usually 15 - 20 minutes) before the show, they will have to give it up - but that's just me.

As for taking the ropes down - we have to do it at that time, because when we don't people will try to not only duck under them to exit the show, but if we are taking them down as people are exiting, they will do all sorts of things - hang on the ropes, trip on them, run into them. We hate doing it as much as you do, but since people do not use common sense, we are forced to do it at that time.

When GC has enough staff for fireworks, they do try to make a passageway by the photo supply, but again, people will try to not only get up to the front of the castle minutes before (and during) the show, but also will ignore us when we tell them the only way to get to certian areas. Short of tackling them to the ground, what can we do?

SweenyTodd
07-09-2002, 03:00 PM
Now that's what I'd like to see - a little disclaimer on your entry ticket that says "If you don't follow the rules, cast members will tackle you to the ground."

Only half kidding,
J.

ChipmunkStar
07-09-2002, 08:02 PM
OK, back to the seat guy. I think it's kind of nice, but kind of odd. More than anything, It reminded me of The Cable Guy. The people who take the seats may become "preferred customers."

*dun Dun DUN!* ;)

PhilMP
07-09-2002, 09:30 PM
Being somebody who has worked Fantasmic! Guest Control (rare for an ODV CM), I have experience with the madness, both controlling the crowd and trying to get through the crowd.

The ropes come down after that point because as my colleague Polar stated, there simply isn't enough time to get the poles and ropes down around the rear of the viewing area while the crowd makes for the exits. Again, those poles and ropes turn from control devices to devices that can injure a Guest, and it adds to the confusion as Guests would try to jump over the ropes and be forced to move around the poles. (That's what one of the leads told me.)

However, IMO, no amount of flashlight waving is going to get Guests to move in the direction we want them to.

Herding them like cattle with those motorized carts that are in abundance backstage, however, is a much better idea.

Phil

HeeHeeHeeHoHoHo
07-10-2002, 12:32 AM
I think this is just weird. This man needs a social life or something. This is not normal behavior and it isn't fair for the familes that would have ultlized that space and waited if there was some.

Who ever notices this guy - confront him and ask why the heck he's doing it and get back to all of us! I'll go with you and do it myself....

I want to know :-)

Ghoulish Delight
07-10-2002, 07:25 AM
I don't know. I'm not too upset at this guy for being "unfair." I don't know how much space he takes up, but consider this:

jason compared it to saving sapce in queue for Splash. I don't quite think that's a fair comparison. Afterall, EVERYONE understands attraction queues. When you go to Disneyland, you know you are going to have to stand in lines for rides and you prepare for it. You plan you day around it. It's pretty fair. Fantasmic!, however, is pretty unique in the amusement park world. It doesn't have an actual queue. You have to have prior knowledge to be able to get good seats. The best seats are taken up 2+ hours before the show. The average tourist, there for their first (and possibly only) time does not know this. Sure, this guy might be taking one or two families' theoretical opportunity away, but odds are they are families that have seen the show before (afterall, they would have to know enough to show up 2+ hours in advance). The great majority of people down front are APers/repeat viewers. Meanwhile, this guy is attempting to give some people who have a very unfair disadvantage the opportunity for a once in a lifetime experience.

A lot of people whine and moan that Fastpass is unfair. That APers with intimate knowledge of the system screw others. To me, the Fantasmic! situation is much more unfair. At least there are instructions for Fastpass. Grab a guide map, read a little, spend a little time learning it, and you can take advantage of it (FP was new to me once. It took me all of 30 minutes to figure it out). But there is nowhere (at least nowhere official) that the average tourist can learn to show up 2 hours early, or wait for the late showing, or bring a blanket for Fantasmic! That's unfair.

RStar
07-10-2002, 08:08 AM
GD, I think you hit the nail on the head.:)

This may be the point the man in the white hat is making. He may even ask first if they have ever seen the show. You are right, it is an unfair situation. WDW has bleachers for the show, as does other theme park shows. This is a most unusual situation.

Thanks for your insight, Dude.:D

Bob