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SimpTwister
06-06-2001, 10:27 PM
What new 'Land' could they possibly add to DCA without breaking the theme?

Consider:

Any Old West/Gold Rush possibilities would overlap either Frontierland or Grizzly Peak.

A tribute to California's aerospace industry, featuring Mission: Space? A bit too similar to Condor Flats, which inexplicably has absolutely NO room for expansion.

Discovery Bay? Wells was English, Verne French. No California connection (except perhaps the 'Bay').


Anyway, I would like to hear your predictions and ideas.

I'll post my own thoughts separately from this 'question' post.

And please, could we keep the blatant DCA bashing to a minimum? Thx.

SimpTwister
06-06-2001, 11:22 PM
New 'Land' for DCA?

-Ocean Theme. PP is kind of ocean themed, but there are many more posibilities. They could do something like The Living Seas, but featuring only California sea creatures. This might also keep guests from going to Sea World, at least on paper. The suits would love that.

-Waterpark. Once again, this would likely be Ocean-themed. As I've said in the past, I think it's inevitable that the DL Resort will eventually get a waterpark. I think the most efficient solution may be to make it part of DCA, adjacent to Paradise Pier. (IMO, they could rip out Maliboomer, Orange Stinger, Jumpin Jellyfish, McShip, Burger McInvasion, and Mulholland Madness to make room!)

-Old Mexico. This is a bit of a stretch, since California was only part of Mexico for 24-odd years. Still, the cultural influences are obvious.

Mexico could have an updated El Rio de Tiempo from Epcot. Some say it's a snoozer, but I think it would fill a niche at DCA. Add a nice restaurant and some shops, and you got yourself a land. No ideas for an E-Ticket here, however. (I was trying to shoehorn Montana del Fuego, aka Fire Mountain, into this land, but it just doesn't quite make enough sense...)

Which leads us to...

-Seismic Activity Land. OK, the name needs some work. This land would obviously focus on earthquakes and volcanos. Fire Mountain would be the centerpiece.


More from me later, now it's your turn.

merlinjones
06-07-2001, 06:23 AM
"California Legends" A land dedicated to the myths and legends that inspired California; from Zorro to Frankie and Annette. This section would feature the fanciful, imaginative and larger than life (read Disneyesque) aspects of the California myth (thereby adding some of the Disneyland type charm people are missing).

Highlight of this land would be an adaptation of Marc Davis' Western River Expedition (an immersive Disney syle ride-through is needed at DCA), Zorro's Black Whip coaster spiraling through the desert, something akin to the Winchester Mystery House or Phantom Manor, an old Mexico section and a fun surf culture ride (surf simulator?), a sexy Baywatch lifeguard stunt show.

Mexico, desert and surf/sand are in short supply at DCA... without these aspects of the California myth, the park doesn't really seem sufficiently like California to me.

80S ERA
06-07-2001, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by SimpTwister
What new 'Land' could they possibly add to DCA without breaking the theme?



San Francisco District (Expanded) - One of the most photogenic cities in the world only got some lame, non-functioning street in the 1st phase. There is endless potential for an expanded San Fransisco area.

Some of the ideas might include:

1. San Francisco gift shops - Seems to be inline with current theme park design philosophy.
2. Lombard Street (re-make, of course)
3. Cable-Car / Trolley - much needed "eye candy" and transportation for the park
4. Alcatraz Attraction - An Indiana Jones-type of attraction that moves through dark tunnels. Designs would have to be "politically correct," however.

Corith
06-07-2001, 10:54 AM
Knotts has Fiesta Village, so I'd say no on the Spanish/Mexico themed area.

I say the lose the Farm section and expand into the Lion king Lot with Chinatown. This would give a good theme flow from San Francisco Warf (the same way adventure land flows into frontinerland/New Orleans and Fantasy land flows into Toon Town).

Restaurants could serve Chinese food (something Disneyland doesn't have). Shopping could include curio stores with Asian imports and stuffed panda's. Outdoor vending would be selling fortune and almond cookies instead of popcorn.

The main attraction (since DCA only has one per land) a suspended rollercoster with cars themed like a Chinese dragon. A secondary attraction would be a dark ride based on Mulan.

There could even be street shows with jugglers, acrobats, and martial art demostrations on less crowded days.

A cable car system could run the length of both San Francisco section and this new land.

Eisner's idea behind this park was that out of state visitors wouldn't have to leave the Disneyland resort to continue their California Adventure (hence the name). Millions of people from all over the world come to California to visit San Francisco's Chinatown.
Here is a wealth of unique architectural styles for retail themeing, and no other California theme park has tapped this unique genre. Years ago, before Six Flags bought Magic Mountain, they had something akin to this concept, but it is no more. How many of you remember the Magic Pagoda attraction?

Napsto
06-07-2001, 12:00 PM
there is a chinese restaunt in dca though!!!!!

CTB21
06-07-2001, 07:41 PM
How about brainwash your guests they are having a good time land ,oh I forgot they already have that land.:)

Morrigoon
06-07-2001, 08:08 PM
The Mexico idea is cute, and appropriate...

But I *LOVE* the Chinatown Idea!!!

They could run the cable cars from chinatown (Timon), across the "hub" to the Golden Dreams theatre, thus performing the function of Main St Vehicles at the hub. A Chinese restaurant does already exist, but they could move it into this area and replace the old one with an Olvera Street area in that square! OMG, I can actually picture it! I like the idea of street performers in Chinatown. Not nuts about the suspended dragon roller coaster, but that's b/c I have a problem with Disney building exposed-structure roller coasters. Since they've already ruined that tenet of DL's creation, they may as well go ahead with it. At least it is themed. (How cool would it be if the coaster ran all around the perimeter of the area?) Lose the dark ride, add the Mulan: The Legend show (Think Mulan Parade, with more performers, on a stage)

Another merchandise idea: Pearl Oysters! Sea World has been doing it for years.

And how about retheming Paradise Pier as Balboa Island? I know it's close, but the tourists don't. And it's a California area that actually exists.

Also, DCA could use some nightlife, like dancing (the way DL has) I think the Hollywood area has enough open space, they could build a cool DJ booth themed as, say, Randy's Donuts, or something along the north side (near superstar limo). At night, bring out the DJ and get the party going in that area. Dancing would be great for ODV sales (think: sodas and glow). Now if it were up to me the music would be 70s/80s, but if Eisney wants to be all hip and edgy they could play top 40 and/or techno. (Techno has the disadvantage of being a draw for Extasy and other drugs, but it does sell glow and really makes it sound like there's a party going on.) I think though, that 70s/80s would work better for a crowd of mixed ages, young people can still dance to it, but the 30+ crowd likes it too. And having a mixed crowd will usually discourage troublemakers.

SimpTwister
06-07-2001, 08:13 PM
I like the San Francisco and Chinatown ideas posted above. Cable Car transportation system, Lombard Street, Mulan attraction in Chinatown (though it's kinda two steps removed: Mulan would have to transport you from Chinatown to 'actual' China), Chinese acrobats, etc. Good stuff.

Too bad the existing Palace of Fine Arts and San Francisco facades are right in the middle of the park, with no apparent room to expand on the theme. (Once again, may I suggest ripping out everything between the Sun Wheel and Golden Dreams to make room?)

...and the Western River Expedition!!! This would definitely step on the toes of Frontierland, but so what? An attraction of this caliber is exactly what DCA needs to keep people from asking for their money back! It could be altered just enough to be California-specific...

SimpTwister
06-07-2001, 08:14 PM
I remember Magic Pagoda at MM!!

That was a sweet attraction, at least as I remember it (it was like 20 years ago...).

Wasn't there also some kind of Dragon-shaped cable car on the north side of the 'mountain', near the Jet Stream flume ride?

Morrigoon
06-07-2001, 08:24 PM
I could have the layout of the park wrong in my head, but I *think* you could rip out the PP duds on the north side of the lake and run bear country (what's that land called again? Grizzly peak rec area or something) over on that side of the lake, where you could pop in western river expedition, obviously adding a slight california bend to it (miners etc, which allows for quite a bit of humor). Also, between planted trees (assuming the budget allows for vegetation and other possible area theming, it might add some much needed shade.

I don't remember, are there any redwoods or other "eventually tall" trees planted in DCA? I understand if trees are young, but is there hope of shade in the future?

WRE could be part outside, maybe, allowing for a few attractive pedestrian bridges and places to walk around the ride. Or how about a barbecue place with the ride going past/around it (kinda a wild west blue bayou). Then pressler/eisner can get their income justification, we get a cool new place to eat, and a style of food and service that meets the budget, with enough wiggle room for Disney to squeeze a big old profit margin in anyway.

DisLee
06-07-2001, 10:21 PM
How about "California StickerLand" - a land where kids could collect stickers by wandering from place to place. Now that would make the place worth $43! :rolleyes:

SimpTwister
06-08-2001, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Morrigoon

They could run the cable cars from chinatown (Timon), across the "hub" to the Golden Dreams theatre, thus performing the function of Main St Vehicles at the hub.

This is a good idea, but expanding San Francisco/Chinatown into Timon wouldn't work very well. Pacific Wharf (Monterey) and the Golden Vine stand between the existing 'Bay Area' and Timon. One would have to leave San Francisco, walk/ride past some non-related stuff, then re-enter San Francisco.

The only place that would really work IMO is the area west of Golden Dreams (currently the lame 'Route 66' area and part of PP, including Mulholland Madness).

Remove Mulholland Madness, Orange Stinger, Route 66 shops, Pizza Oom Mow Mow, that boat thing, Burger Invasion, and Jumpin' Jellyfish. Put the Golden Zephyr where Orange Stinger is now (GZ might not be the greatest ride, but it has an authentic classic amusement park look, and its Paradise Pier sign would mark the new boundary of that area).

Voila. The lamest stuff in the park is gone, and we now have plenty of room for an expanded San Francisco and Chinatown.

Thomas
06-08-2001, 07:13 AM
Reagarding a better themed San Francisco area, a roller coaster could be made using the cable-car theme. The coaster could start out like you are going up one of the hills in San Francisco and then it would 'go out of control'. The scenery the car would pass could be landmarks from San Francisco.

Another area I thought they overlooked in DCA is the California Missions. Seems like they could make a dark ride based on the missions which could be fun and educational at the same time (such as EPCOT).:(

Morrigoon
06-08-2001, 10:57 PM
Reagarding a better themed San Francisco area, a roller coaster could be made using the cable-car theme. The coaster could start out like you are going up one of the hills in San Francisco and then it would 'go out of control'. The scenery the car would pass could be landmarks from San Francisco.

Thomas, you know what I just LOVE about this idea? It allows for a roller coaster with THEMED-STRUCTURE, rather than exposed. I LOVE this idea. Bravo.


Another area I thought they overlooked in DCA is the California Missions. Seems like they could make a dark ride based on the missions which could be fun and educational at the same time (such as EPCOT).

Good idea, tough execution. They could do it focusing on how it shaped California, perhaps, but you'd have two groups to contend with: native americans, who were abused by the Spanish missionaries, and anti-religion groups who might oppose disney's seeming promotion of one religion (while their execution of it could possibly offend catholics, adding a third group to your harrassers). I'm not saying it's a bad suggestion, but Disney would walk a tight rope on that one. Personally, I think it would be interesting, as the missions are an undeniably significant part of the state's history (or we wouldn't all have had to build missions in 4th grade ;) )

Actually, if they added a chinatown like we were talking about, it could conceivably be a d*mn good park. And that trolley coaster... cute!

SimpTwister
06-09-2001, 01:59 AM
-Western River Expedition

I've got it! I previously suggested bringing El Rio de Tiempo to DCA to anchor a Mexico land. Forget that.

Instead, take WRE, set it in CA between 1822 and 1848 (the period that CA was under Mexican rule), and use that as the Mexico anchor. It should be a spectacular E-ticket, but non-threatening, for families. Somewhat less scary than POTC.

As said previously, add a shop and a Mexican restaurant, and we have a new land. 'Mexico' would be located in Timon.


-Cable Car coaster

Cable Cars would look weird on any type of elevated track, and the cost (not to mention space) to build a 'terraformed' coaster would be prohibitive.

The only way I can see this working is to make a kinda goofy dark ride/coaster out of it, but I still prefer the 'Cable Cars as Transportation' solution.


-Missions

Missions are indeed an important part of CA history, and would have a place at DCA. To build a Dark Ride around one, though, would seem a bit tacky, and yes, insulting to the Catholic Church.

IMO a DCA Mission would have to be something like a combination shop/restaurant/artisan demonstration. Not like DCA needs these types of things right now, but maybe after they add some E-tickets.


-San Francisco expansion

As said, along the north/northwest side of Paradise Bay.

Cable Cars shuttle guests between the walkway to the east of Golden Dreams and the area where Orange Stinger now stands.

A couple more 'city streets' with specialty shops just west of Golden Dreams. A winding footpath that recalls Lombard Street. A hint of Fisherman's Wharf along the Bay, with a seafood stand or two (fish & chips, fish tacos)

Which brings us to...


-Chinatown

In the area northwest of Paradise Bay, currently occupied by Mulholland Madness, etc.

Like at Pleasure Island, every day is New Year's. Parade, fireworks, Dragon, the whole nine.

An extension of San Francisco's city streets, this area features a moderately priced Chinese restaurant, Chinese acrobats in a smallish outdoor theater area (like the outdoor stage in the Hollywood Backlot), and Mulan.

Mulan begins in an unassuming (save for the big Mulan sign) building in Chinatown. The queue serves to educate guests on the history and culture of China.

The pre-show is a mystical storyteller-type AA who begins to tell the story of Mulan. Soon after he/she begins, some fx show that something magical is happening. A door or wall panel slides open to reveal an outdoor nighttime scene in China. Guests board ride vehicles here, and experience the remainder of the story firsthand.


Whew. OK, now add Rock 'n Roller Coaster and/or Tower of Terror, and I'll happily part with my $43!!


BTW, I realize I'm repeating myself quite a bit in this thread. It's an iterative design process. Think of this post as SimpTwister's DCA v. 1.3 or something.

Shouts to y'all for the awesome suggestions. Just trying to bring it all together...

80S ERA
06-09-2001, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by SimpTwister


This is a good idea, but expanding San Francisco/Chinatown into Timon wouldn't work very well. Pacific Wharf (Monterey) and the Golden Vine stand between the existing 'Bay Area' and Timon. One would have to leave San Francisco, walk/ride past some non-related stuff, then re-enter San Francisco.


Not 100% true.... the Pacific Wharf could be modified to become "Fisherman's Wharf," thus fitting the S.F. theme. Throw in a couple of animitronic seals complete with "urk! urk!" sounds along with an Alcatraz attraction nearby and you won't know the difference between DCA and the real SF!

The only way I could think of hiding the "outside world" is to construct a SF cityscape facade, similar to the NY streets in MGM or Hollywood Backlot street. The site of all the hotels nearby with exception of the Grand Californian just looks too un-Disney!

Morrigoon
06-09-2001, 10:08 PM
The whole Mexico thing could easily be worked in with a small representation of Olvera Street. After all, nocal isn't ALL cal! Olvera Street is a nice positive representation of LA's multiculturalism (beats pigs in leather!), as well as a nice tribute to our Mexican heritage. Great way to sell Moraccas (sp?), pinatas and sombreros (great for shade!). They could have a Mariachi band outside and get El Torito to sponsor a sit-down restaurant (I'd say Chevy's but I think Mission would have a problem with their tortilla making ;) ). Also, Disney could PR it up with a small outdoor stage, and bring in local dance groups to do tradiditional dancing.

What they need to do to "fill out" some of these lands is to stop making it seem like you're always shopping at a mega-store. Olvera street could be almost exclusively the domain of ODV (which would make it seem more like the real odv... several small vendors, each specializing in a few items - one guy selling taquitos right off his cooker, another lady selling marionettes, a third person has sombreros and moraccas (sp?), another cart that's all pinatas (or maybe a store). They could get bags of salt water taffy from across the esplanade and sell them to fill the pinatas. Yeah, maybe a candy vendor. Shopping can be fun, when it's presented all cute like that, not the in-your-face cavalcade of cr*p you hit walking down main st at the end of the day. The whole Olvera Street area could be very festive... maybe a "Cinco de Mayo everyday" kinda thing. I know, we already have the every day is new years bit, but wouldn't all that stuff make this a great park?

dghosthost
06-10-2001, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by SimpTwister
I remember Magic Pagoda at MM!!

That was a sweet attraction, at least as I remember it (it was like 20 years ago...).

Wasn't there also some kind of Dragon-shaped cable car on the north side of the 'mountain', near the Jet Stream flume ride?

I loved that attraction...the dragon cable car was the first attraction I ever got stuck on. You know how it went down the hill? Well, right where it was the steepest was where our car stopped so we couldn't get out. I was about 7 and stuck there for over 40 minutes. I'll never forget the dragons again!

80S ERA
06-27-2001, 08:33 AM
At least we know space isn't an issue here.

I'm not only speaking of the Timon parking lot but the other "temporary" areas they setup in the park. Why else would they put in a traveling carnival and farm area?

It all makes sense to me now. I'm sure this was the scenario during the planning conversations at Aspen, where DCA was thought up:

EISNER: DCA? Thats a great idea! Now, guests can enjoy the whole California experience without leaving the resort! Brilliant! Bravo! (Clapping)
PRESSLER: I've got more ways we could cut costs, sir.

EISNER: Gee...you never cease to amaze me, Paul.

PRESSLER: We could put in some temporary lands in the park in order to give the impression that the park is actually complete on opening day! The best part is that the public will pay $43 without knowing the difference!Braverman has agreed with me on this one, as always.

EISNER: Temporary?

PRESSLER: Yes. I've got some inexpensive ideas to fill in space within the park until you and I cash out our stock. The first is a traveling carnival that would occupy more than 1/2 of the park. The other would be to have a "farm" area. The best part is that this area would have almost no attractions at all! That's 3/4 of the park! The only problem is we have to actually spend some real money on the other 1/4 of the park...or else someone might be on to us.

EISNER: I just feel sorry for the next guy who has to inherit this mess! They will have to actually spend some money in order to turn these into real lands! You okay with this Braverman?

BRAVERMAN: (Crumpling some concept art from WDI) Of course, sir. That's what I was thinking all along.

--------------
:D

DisneyFreak2000
06-29-2001, 09:52 PM
I think the remainder of the Timon lot should be divided into three portions. The first portion (directly behind Hollywood Backlot) can be used for the Tower of Terror, Rock N' Roller Coaster, Armageddon, and a few kid and dark rides (including Great Movie Ride). The second portion, parallel to the farm and wharf, will be the expansion to San Francisco. After rethemeing the wharf to fit the bay epansion, guests walk through and experience a new street with shops and such. The street can then lead into the Chinatown with dragon themed roller coaster, Mulan show, etc. The remaining portion (approx. on the corner of Katella and Harbor) can be Yosemite Valley. In the back there will be a landmark-type mountain surrounded by large trees which will feature three E-ticket attractions. Inside the base can be a motion simulater type ride where guests experience what it's like to be in the wilderness. They ride on the back of eagles, deers, mountain lions, etc. viewing wilderness from their perspectives. Then inside the mountain will be a raft ride (like Jurassic Park) where guests start off a leisurly cruise then (think of Catastrophe Canyon) a water dam breaks loose causing them to carren down rapids and water falls. The other attraction could be a single- person suspended roller coaster where guest fly through the trees surronding the mountain. Of course in this area, there will be kid rides as well. What'ya think?

JRob2k1
06-29-2001, 10:00 PM
I dont think the Timon parking lot is that big, but it is still fun to dream though!!

-JRob

Morrigoon
06-29-2001, 10:05 PM
Temp fix:
The farm could benefit from a petting zoo. Bring in a couple sheep, ducks and a cow and BAM! you have a kids attraction, Emeril style ;) Remember how popular big thunder ranch was when it was a petting zoo? I still remember big thunder trail with all those cages of birds along it. That was pretty cool really. It'd give circle-D something to do ;)

SimpTwister
06-29-2001, 10:55 PM
DF2K:

I would also like to see these attractions added to the Hollywood Backlot.

ToT is rumored to be on the way, and RnRC and Armegeddon seem like possible future attractions.

The Great Movie Ride is very unlikely, though, since the rumor is that they're scrapping the Fla. version.

I have also said that DCA needs a second Mountain in Timon. This would extend the Mountain Range out toward the Third Park (which also needs a Mountain IMO).

Morrigoon: You're right as usual. Petting Zoo in the Farm area only makes sense.

Morrigoon
06-30-2001, 09:23 PM
Posted by SimpTwister:

Morrigoon: You're right as usual.

Simp, darling, did you want that payment in 10's or 20's?:D