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justagrrl
07-02-2002, 08:26 AM
Okay - we've got some good friends who were recently bitching about the smoking policy in the parks and how they ignore it and smoke whereever they want to. I do not agree with this, of course. I don't smoke- dh does and abides by the rules.

When we go to the park - what do I say when they light up whenever and whereever? I don't wanna bash the friendship...anyone have a nice or witty thing to say? (I'm not into lecturing my friends so I was thinking of being a sort of smarty pants about it...)

They claim since they are outside, and stand off to the side where it "shouldn't bother anyone", that it shouldn't matter.

MammaSilva
07-02-2002, 08:31 AM
justagirl, coming from a smoker here......you aren't going to change their minds about this issue, my advice is that when they are doing it just stay far far away and if/when a CM or Security person asks them to put it out you won't be embarressed by association.

disguy
07-02-2002, 08:38 AM
When they start to light up lean them closer to a cm/security as you walk they'll tell them. Of course last time I was there I saw plenty and I mean PLENTY of people smoking and not one person telling them not to.

You could always go when I go. I'll be sure to tell them to put it out :) I'm a smoker and I hate that I have to follow the rules and others don't bother. I did smoke anywhere I wanted to the first time I went in a while because I didn't know there was a no smoking policy so, I smoked until I found out. (which took about two puffs by the time they ran and got me :)

TecTalker2K
07-02-2002, 08:44 AM
Sounds like you need to dump these "friends". This is rude and thoughtless and if they are this self centered, they will eventually screw you.

HBDisneyPrincess
07-02-2002, 11:53 AM
I'm suprised that your friends would light up around you knowing that it bothers you. Have you talked to them about it seriously? I mean, maybe if you sympathisize with their feelings but express your concern about having children inhale the second hand smoke, much less yourself, maybe they'll be more considerate. Maybe they just don't realize it really bothers you, personally. If they did, they may still be against the rule but may be willing to follow it for the sake of your friendship, knowing it bothers you.

If that doesn't work, then I agree with mammasilva and disguy. Stay away from them while they are smoking, or try to subtly get a Cm's attention.

I'm sorry your in this position! :)

Cadaverous Pallor
07-02-2002, 12:37 PM
All I know is, my parents are smokers, and there's no way in hell that I would tell them to follow smoking rules. They feel, like your friends probably do, that smoking rules are unfair to smokers, and that they will break them whenever they can. I'm actually lucky in that they respect my place when they come over and go outside to smoke. Otherwise, I'd have one huge confrontation on my hands.

Some smokers have huge chips on thier shoulders. Seems to me you'd never win an argument with them.

Cinemascribe
07-02-2002, 01:00 PM
Well, I have a cousin who always begs me to take her to Disneyland, she is 29 years old and acts like a big baby all the time.

I took her once, and she is a chain smoker. I have never smoked, and so It was the worst trip of my life. I insisted on following the rules and this meant going to one of the smoking areas after each attraction. She seemed to want to stay there more than enjoying the park. It was awful.

Finally, she got sick of walking all the way to the areas and started lighting up in line, etc. I told her, to either stop, or please go stand away from me, so I didn't have to be part of it.

She was very offended, but I would do it again. What's right, is right.

CB:p

Lani
07-02-2002, 01:17 PM
It's not like the park doesn't allow smoking altogether. There are designated smoking areas, and your friends are such nicotine addicts that they need to smoke all the time, they should stay close to those smoking areas.

The bottom line is that smoking in the designated smoking areas is basic common courtesy. It's just like making sure your friends ONLY do number 1 and 2 in restrooms, instead of on the sidewalk. You think that sounds ridiculous? The city council of San Francisco just yesterday passed (by a one-vote margin of 6 to 5) a law making it illegal to urinate or defecate on public streets. I swear this is true. I mean, I cannot believe how ridiculous it is that we have to even pass a law (much less make this a point of serious discussion), but they had to because so many (primarily homeless) people did, and if you think it's gross enough to accidentally step on a pile of doggie doo, I can't even begin to describe doing so with the human kind.

Others have mentioned this -- I think your friends have some attitude problems. If they don't even have the decency to use designated smoking areas, I would wonder what kind of value system they're on. I don't know how close friends you are, but I don't know that you want to be their best buddies. Something tells me that talking to them about this will only make them ridicule you. :(

Lani
07-02-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Cinemascribe
Well, I have a cousin who always begs me to take her to Disneyland, she is 29 years old and acts like a big baby all the time... Cinemascribe -- isn't it interesting that it is your cousin who is the addict (to nicotine), whose need for the drug is so strong that she is willing to give up an otherwise fun time in the park by enjoying her nicotine fix at shorter intervals? And isn't it interesting how when you pointed out that her behavior was wrong, she made you out to be the bad guy and tried to make you feel bad?

Cinemascribe, don't feel bad or guilty. You did the right thing. Next time she asks you to take her to Disneyland, tell her you will do so only if she doesn't smoke at all. I realize she will say she can't do it (in which case she might try a nicotine patch or nicotine gum to tide her over), but let her know you will not take her to the park to be made to feel bad when she breaks the rules and starts lighting up everywhere.

jason
07-02-2002, 01:25 PM
tell them you have a lung infection and cant take the smoke .... either that or pee on thier leg everytime .... shouldn't take more than a couple of trys to lick the problem for good .

Cinemascribe
07-02-2002, 01:25 PM
Lani, exactly!

Now that I am going to be working at the park. She immediately called to make sure I would sign her in for free sometime. I made sure to tell her-

not if you are going to break the rules and smoke all over.

She decided to drop the topic.

Some people will never learn.

Lani
07-02-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
All I know is, my parents are smokers, and there's no way in hell that I would tell them to follow smoking rules. They feel, like your friends probably do, that smoking rules are unfair to smokers, and that they will break them whenever they can.Do your parents also insist on breaking Federal law by smoking in aircrafts, because that no-smoking-in-airplanes law is "unfair"? I have been an off-and-on smoker now for over 20 years (mostly off, and I've been off now for about four years), and I was never that disrespectful. If there were no-smoking rules, I made sure to obey them... but I would turn into an industrial chimney when I got to the designated smoking areas.

CP, your parents are perfectly within their rights to insist on smoking in their house when you visit. It is also perfectly within your rights to insist that they smoke outside when they visit your house. That said, if they were to visit Disneyland, it is not THEIR house, and thus they would need to follow the no-smoking rules that DL has set.

thamnarestan
07-02-2002, 01:39 PM
Some smokers can get very upset when told that Disneyland is a smoke-free park. Some CMs have even been assaulted by guests after telling them to put out their cigarettes.

Lani
07-02-2002, 01:49 PM
I took a sociology course in college once... one of those really important classes I took instead of something like history. Erm... anyhoo, this course, "Drugs in Society" was taught by a tenured professor who boasted of having tried every hippie drug known to man. One of the things he said a number of times in class is that a nicotine adidiction is the hardest to kick; even tougher than heroin. The true addicts will continue to pay regardless of the price of a pack of cigarettes (which I hear is now hovering around $7.00 a pack in NYC).

I think DL is fine with its designated smoking areas. I would not want to see smoking banned completely, because I don't think it's reasonable to force all cigarette-smoking visitors to have to leave the park for their fix.

Uncle Dick
07-02-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by justagrrl
They claim since they are outside, and stand off to the side where it "shouldn't bother anyone", that it shouldn't matter.
Honestly, if a smoker wants to light up at Disneyland and does so in a responsible manner by standing away from other guests, I don't see what the big deal is. It's those smokers who light up in line or while walking in a big crowd who the designated areas are intended for. I don't see any difference between those who smoke along off in a corner somewhere and those who smoke in the designated areas. In fact, I'd rather see a guest remain happy because they are able to smoke without walking a mile to the nearest designated area than hear them whine and complain because they have to hike to the "Smoker's Ghetto".

disguy
07-02-2002, 02:26 PM
Thank you, Uncle Dick.

That is my feeling also. There are plenty of areas in Disneyland where you can go "hide off" and smoke. It's such a pain to travel so far and I feel very bad when I'm with others that have to wait for me.

As for some of the other comments...Yes some smokers do have chip on there shoulders but some for good reason. Smokers get treated worse then a crack addict if you ask me. It's like...give them a bit of a break so long they are not disturbing you. I think Disney really needs to be more acomidating. They allow smoking out side the gate...yet there is no ash trays to be found until Down Town Disney. However, I never throw my butt on the floor instead I put it out and throw in the garbage but that can be a hazard.

I've said this before have Disney keep it simple:
1. more smoking areas
2. ban them from children entering or non smokers (during parades,shows etc)
3.more ash trays in smoking areas.

Is that so much to ask?

justagrrl
07-02-2002, 03:09 PM
I'll tell you how the scenario will most likely go...

We'll be somewhere in DLR and they'll light up. A CM will come up quickly and tell them where they can smoke....And then we'll all make fun of them all day for getting in trouble with "The Disneyland Police." (yeah - I know they aren't the dland police but if you're gonna poke fun...) You've got to understand that my dh and her dh have a long time friendship and habit of taunting and making fun of each other - in a friendly way you understand - but...well...I guess I can't really explain it. It's like when you go to a "roast" and everyone says all sorts of bad things about the person - even though they really like them...that's as close as I can get.

I'm not going to go dumping anyone just because they wanna smoke where they wanna smoke. Overall, they are good people and fun to hang out with. It's not an airplane here or a federal law...and they know I don't have any lung infection and that seems silly to lie to friends over something like that... There is really a lot of hostility towards smokers, isn't there? Frankly, if people are this concerned about the quality of air they are breathing, they should take it up with those responsible for producing the majority of the pollution. Smokers may need your pity or sympathy over your hate. (Most I know don't even enjoy smoking and would like to quit but as was said before - much easier said then done.)

There does seem to be an area - at least when the Chinese Food place was closed - that you could go to sort of around the back in a little alcove where we'd go hang out, drink beer, and dh could grab a smoke. Not an official area mind you...but as no one was ever even remotely over there (customers) at the time - the few times that CM's walked by no one said a thing. Which is good - if you consider that for those that smoke, beer and cigg's seem to go hand in hand.

Cadaverous Pallor
07-02-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by disguy
2. ban them from children entering or non smokers (during parades,shows etc)

You can't ban children from the smoking areas. There still are parents that smoke, you know.

As for going "off to the side" to have a smoke...then the question is, how far is far enough? I'm not saying I have a problem with it, but some other people might. The designated areas give "off to the side" a boundary.

I'm actually quite shocked at how many people follow the rules. It's only once in a great while that I smell smoke in a non-designated area.

Disney Nick
07-02-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I'm actually quite shocked at how many people follow the rules. It's only once in a great while that I smell smoke in a non-designated area.
I have to agree with CP on this one. I can't stand smokers and my brother is a big smoker, but I'm amazed at how few people I see break the rules. Somehow my brother is able to go WITHOUT cigarettes anywhere in the Disneyland resort (DTD excepted). He will actually wait until we get back to the hotel room and then he goes outside. I'm very impressed by how he does this. And I don't think I've ever seen anyone smoke in line... boy would I get them to stop in a second.

cstephens
07-02-2002, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
Some smokers can get very upset when told that Disneyland is a smoke-free park.

But DL is *not* a smoke-free park as there are designated smoking areas.

I'm undecided about the smoking areas. I think that if all smokers were polite and mindful of what they were doing, the smoking areas wouldn't be needed. I can't think of how many times I've been almost burned and actually burned by a smoker waving his/her hand around with a lit cigarette. This is especially bad during the times when I've needed a wheelchair, and I've seen this kind of dangerous behaviour around small children as well, who are usually at cigarette-level.

That being said, I know not all smokers are like that and have a friend who was very courteous in where her cigarette was and where the smoke went. After the smoking areas were implemented, I actually went and sat with her one time outside Plaza Pavilion when it was a designated smoking area. Unfortunately, it's probably the case that most of the people who would actually use the smoking areas are the same people who would have been courteous without the designated areas, and most of the people who ignore the designated areas are the same people who would not have been courteous.

As for CMs enforcing the smoking policy, I've rarely seen that and on more occasions, I've seen CMs ignoring the policy themselves, to the point where they are in a busy thoroughfare, get stopped to answer a question by someone who is smoking, and the CM answers the question while saying nothing about the cigarette.

HBTiggerFan
07-02-2002, 06:11 PM
I wonder if the wording was changed from "Designated Smoking Areas" to "Designated non-smoking areas" (for the entire park except smoking ares) how smokers would react? At my school they are implementing designated non-smoking areas because of a survey taken amongst studnets. The areas are the same, the wording is just different. Its a mental game.

heidiwhr
07-02-2002, 07:03 PM
As an adult I have developed an alergy to cigarette smoke (yep - no more bars for me!) Needless to say, I can hardly breathe when I am around it, and get panicy when I am in a big crowd and someone lights up, not thinking of others around them. If I'm stuck in the crowd, how am I supposed to get away from the smoke? I've strated telling smokers who do that to please stop and why. I make sure I am polite, and find that most put it out right away, but then there are always those who don't care at all about their own health or those around them. It's unfortunate that sometimes we are unable to think of others while satisfying our own needs.

disguy
07-02-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by NMoreles

I have to agree with CP on this one. I can't stand smokers and .

Isan't that a little harsh? You can't stand smokers? Smokers are normal people who happen to be addicted to a drug. Maybe you can't stand smoke/cigarettes that's fine but not liking smokers is harsh. Off the soap box now.

Disney Nick
07-02-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by disguy


Isan't that a little harsh? You can't stand smokers? Smokers are normal people who happen to be addicted to a drug. Maybe you can't stand smoke/cigarettes that's fine but not liking smokers is harsh. Off the soap box now.
Alright thanks for correcting me. I can't stand smoke/cigarettes. I have nothing against someone who smokes, hell my brother is one of the coolest people I know.

oregonzooron
07-03-2002, 12:28 AM
As a pipe smoker, I enjoy a slightly different angle on the social impact of my habit. Very few people actively object to a pipe, and many non- and even anti-smokers have stopped to enjoy and even comment on the pleasant, nostalgic aromatic blend I regularly carry. Okay, maybe this is just a self-delusionary pipe-smoker's conceit, but the truth is I NEVER get complaints. I even have friends who encourage me to smoke in their homes.

Smoking a premium blend of good tobacco, I actually notice cigarette smoke more than I did before I smoked - because ot only is it tobacco, but it's really bad tobacco. Imagine forced exposure to skunkweed after spending your time tending roses, or the smell of Budweiser to a connisseur of fine micro-brews.

Still, I confine my smoking to designated areas when required. Why? - because rules are rules. If I am a guest, I abide by my hosts' rules, and expect others to do the same. No amount of self-righteous indignation about perceived "unfairness" or "violated rights" is going to change the rules.

So I go to "smokers jail". Not as often as others maybe, as ambience is as much a part of my smoking as the smoking itself. And this is my main complaint. Designated areas are usually unpleasant side areas no one would choose to hang out in. They usually involve a loading dock, and/or several dumpsters with obvious and unidentifiable contents. It's as if it's not enough to be shunted aside for our habit, we must also be punished for it.

One last comment on this discussion. Don't use the second-hand smoke argument. Especially in an outdoor setting. Yes, it has it's merits, but it's also absolutely garuanteed to become confrontational. You simply make the smoker defensive and less willing to listen to you. Keep it on a personal level. "Your behavior effects me in this way..." Telling a smoker that he's out to poison the planet as a whole is a sure-fire way to get his hackles up.

ron