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CEO Andrew
07-01-2002, 09:12 AM
First off, don't get me wrong . . . I adore FastPass. I use it everytime I visit the park, and for the longest time, I didn't think twice about it. In fact, when friends suggested that Disney charge for the service, I would adamantly defend the "righteousness" of FastPass, indicating that there are no financial barriers to make the system unfair.

But . . . I've been thinking. Many guests are tourists, foreigners, and immigrants that have very little understanding of the English language. As I was using the Indy FastPass, I overheard a Chinese family unsure of why "everyone is moving past" them. So in reality, FastPass is fair to us English speakers (a vast improvement over Universal's VIP program and such), but I feel Disney isn't doing enough to promote FastPass across language barriers. This is especially true in Southern California, which has a large Mexican immigrant population.

What do you guys think? :confused:

Uncle Dick
07-01-2002, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by CEO Andrew
But . . . I've been thinking. Many guests are tourists, foreigners, and immigrants that have very little understanding of the English language. As I was using the Indy FastPass, I overheard a Chinese family unsure of why "everyone is moving past" them. So in reality, FastPass is fair to us English speakers (a vast improvement over Universal's VIP program and such), but I feel Disney isn't doing enough to promote FastPass across language barriers. This is especially true in Southern California, which has a large Mexican immigrant population.
Disney does produce multi-lingual guidemaps which, I would assume, explain Fastpass to guests in their native language. CMs who know more than one language can wear a little language thingy on the bottom of their nametag that are plainly visible to foreign guests. Beyond that, I don't know what more Disney can do. Polluting the park with more signs that explain every detail of every aspect of park in every conceivable language is impractical. Besides, I know people who speak English fluently and are totally confused by Fastpass.

Ghoulish Delight
07-01-2002, 09:22 AM
Maps, with FP instructions, are available in a multitued of languages at City Hall. CMs with multi-lingual abilities can occasionally be spotted throughout the park wearing nametags that mention what language they speak.

While this may not be widely known, and Disney could possibly do a slightly better job of publicizing theser resources, I think by having this kind of stuff available, they've gone above and beyond the call to accomodate non-English speaking guests.

When I travel to foreign coutries and I don't know the language (which would be anywhere that's not English or Spanish), I accept the fact that I'm just not going to understand things. The official language of the US is English. Disney is very accomodating and makes information available in most of the "major" languages of the world, but they are by no means required to. Again, when I travel to a foreign country, I don't expect everyone everywhere to be absolutely sure they make information available to me in English. I appreciate it when they do, and most tourist areas do, but I don't find it "unfair" when it's not. It's all part of traveling. There's only so far you can go. There are already thousands of signs throughout Disneyland. Can you imagine if each of those signs had to be in 5, 6, 7 different languages?

CEO Andrew
07-01-2002, 09:30 AM
You're both very right. I hadn't considered how many signs would need to be translated to provide the "complete" DL experience. Thanks for your input! I'm going to look more into the multi-lingual guidemaps that Disney issues. Hmmm . . .

disguy
07-01-2002, 09:32 AM
We have to be realistic we live in the United States Disneyland is located in the United States and yes it's a world wide tourist destination that doesn't mean they should pollute the park with signs and audio explaining every detail. I think it's the tourists responsibility to figure things out for themselves.

I would be very annoyed if every single audio track in the park would be followed by a bunch of different languages. I think they do enough of that already!

DisneylandBoy
07-01-2002, 09:23 PM
And in Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland Paris, aren't Japanese and French the main languages used? If something is located in a country, the country's main language should be used.

cmw0612
09-22-2002, 05:50 PM
You know what? The Disneyland Resort has maps in almost every language and they all explain how Fastpass works, so it IS fair!!!!!

thekirk
09-22-2002, 08:27 PM
It's totally fair. You say you overheard a family wondering why everyone was passing.....they were probably speaking in English (since you understood) so, they could easily figure it out.

As long as there are maps in different languages then it's all fair.

From what I've seen, everything about Fast Pass is perfect. Walt would have loved it too, I see it as being "very him." He would love to give people a chance to wait in line....while they were enjoying the rest of his park. Fast Pass is one of the best things that has happend to Disneyland in a long while.

CEO Andrew
09-22-2002, 08:34 PM
Don't get me wrong about this thread . . . I love FastPass. I, too, think it's among the greatest things since sliced bread.

But to clarify my concern: the family I overheard was speaking Chinese. I've only been studying Chinese for a couple of years, but I understood the main gist of their concern. And it is all good and well that DL publishes maps in different languages, but that doesn't help in one regard . . . what if the patron cannot READ?

It isn't unusual for immigrants to have little or no formal education whatsoever. But anyhow, I still love FastPass and think it is overall, pretty fair.

Not Afraid
09-22-2002, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by DisneylandBoy
And in Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland Paris, aren't Japanese and French the main languages used? If something is located in a country, the country's main language should be used.

At DLP most things are in French and in English. This is not necessarily to be helpful to those with English as their primary language, but because English is considered the "Lingua Franca" (universal language) in Europe. Interestingly enough, the Lingua Franca used to be French (hence the name).

Morrigoon
09-22-2002, 08:52 PM
I can certainly see your POV, and, to clarify, I disagree with fastpass too, though since it's there I use it. But to play devil's advocate here.... isn't that why there's an information booth staffed with friendly and usually bilingual CMs?

As far as the illiteracy is concerned, well, signs wouldn't help them either. What percentage of the over-7 populous that can afford to visit DL do you propose to be illiterate? And how would you solve the problem, picture-book maps? (actually, that's not a half bad idea.. would work for the under-7 set too)

tod
09-23-2002, 07:39 AM
The trouble with FastPass is that it's not a simple concept, and people have trouble getting it.

I was doing the good-guest bit (I've been going there since the place opened in 1955 and did some tiime as a CM) with an English-speaking American tourist who was looking at his map quizzically and it turned out thathe didn't understand FastPass, and it took a minute or two of explanation to get it across to him, too.

Maybe the problem is not one of language.

--T

LegolandMC
09-23-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by CEO Andrew
But to clarify my concern: the family I overheard was speaking Chinese. I've only been studying Chinese for a couple of years, but I understood the main gist of their concern. And it is all good and well that DL publishes maps in different languages, but that doesn't help in one regard . . . what if the patron cannot READ?


If a person can't read, that's not a language barrier, as that is a problem in any language. Even someone from America who is illiterate would then be out of luck as far as FastPass in concerned.

I think that FastPass is completely fair....it is there for anyone to use, and any barrier can be overcome, by maps, if they don't speak English, by talking to a cast member, foreign speaking or otherwise, if they can't read, or from simply observing how the system works.

Ghoulish Delight
09-23-2002, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by tod
The trouble with FastPass is that it's not a simple concept, and people have trouble getting it.
Take a look around you at the resort one day. Many people have trouble getting the concept of the parking structure. Many people have trouble getting the concept of sitting down in a tram. Many people have trouble getting the concept of buying a ticket. Many people of trouble getting the concept of standing in line at all.

You can't stop using a system just because there are people who can't figure it out, thereby punishing those who can. Credit cards are a good analogy. Many people would gladly create a law to ban credit cards because too many people can't figure out how to use them effectively and subsequently screw themselves over. However, that would prevent me, someone who does know how to use it as an effective tool, from being able to benefit from the many advantages credit cards offer. I can't help it if other people can't figure it out. I shouldn't be punished for that.

Some may argue that since it's a new addition, since many people can't take advantage of it, we should go back to the old way. What about progress? Yes, progress often leaves a segment of people in the lurch, behind the times. Too bad. Progress is good. Lowest common denomenator stagnation is bad.

KimmyPooh
09-23-2002, 08:40 AM
I find it interesting how many "americans" don't use FastPass for the attractions that do have it. FastPass is widely advertised throughout the park on the maps and on signs. If visitors still have questions, CMs are always around to answer them. :cool: I went to DL last Sunday with "non-Disney" fans who thought FP was an additional charge. (they were Americans too.)

smichals
09-23-2002, 09:07 AM
When you look at Fastpass you think something like this is so unfair to the others. We have been taught since childhood to wait our turn and stay in line. Fastpass at first glance turns this around. But when you look at it from the angle of personal choices it becomes one of the most democratic options. I choose to use a fast pass for a certain ride. I then can choose to ride another ride, eat or see a show. While waiting for the other ride, other people are using thier Fastpass for the ride I'm waiting for. As long as you aren't taunted by the Fastpass users (As we were May 2002) everything becomes fair. :D

Bill Catherall
09-23-2002, 10:36 AM
I wonder though...

Many are amazed that so many people don't use Fast Pass, but what if everyone in the park used Fast Pass only, and never used Stand-by if Fast Pass is available? What then?

In order to keep the Fast Pass line short enough...down to a 10-15 minute wait...only a set number of fast passes can be distributed based on the capicity of the ride. So if everybody used Fast Pass, it would be an "early bird gets the worm" kind of thing and favors the early arrivals. Now we're back to being unfair again. Late comers would be "forced" into using Stand-by. And, if you got there early enough to get a Fast Pass, you'd probably be limited to only one for the entire day.

Imagine your day at the park if all Fast Passes were "sold out" by 10:00 am. Could it happen?

Ghoulish Delight
09-23-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Bill Catherall
I wonder though...

Many are amazed that so many people don't use Fast Pass, but what if everyone in the park used Fast Pass only, and never used Stand-by if Fast Pass is available? What then?

In order to keep the Fast Pass line short enough...down to a 10-15 minute wait...only a set number of fast passes can be distributed based on the capicity of the ride. So if everybody used Fast Pass, it would be an "early bird gets the worm" kind of thing and favors the early arrivals. Now we're back to being unfair again. Late comers would be "forced" into using Stand-by. And, if you got there early enough to get a Fast Pass, you'd probably be limited to only one for the entire day.

Imagine your day at the park if all Fast Passes were "sold out" by 10:00 am. Could it happen? Yes, that's tue. But, FastPass works not because not everyone knows how to use it, but rather because not everyone WANTS to use it. For FastPass to be effective for an individual (I define effective as the individual seeing more attractions with FP than without) takes a certain ammount of planning ahead. Most people do not want to be bothered with using and timing Fastpass. So, for those who do want to make the effort, it becomes an asset. For those who don't they don't lose anything (I still dispute the claim that FP significantly affects standby wait times except for attractions with very short standby lines already).

Even if everyone in the park fully understands the system, I don't expect more than a small percentage that would choose to use it.

If, however, demand does increase to a point where more FP locations are "selling out" as quickly as Splash Mountain, they may have to rethink their philosophy. Perhaps, distribute in spurts. Rather than open the park, turn the machines on, and let people grab 'em until they run out, only distribute X number. Then wait and hour. Then distribute X more, etc. until they run out. Or alternately, distribute in 1 hour windows, then wait two hours. That will spread distribution out and give people a greater chance. Heck, they should do something like this for Splash right now.

tod
09-23-2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Take a look around you at the resort one day. Many people have trouble getting the concept of the parking structure. Many people have trouble getting the concept of sitting down in a tram. Many people have trouble getting the concept of buying a ticket. Many people of trouble getting the concept of standing in line at all.

You can't stop using a system just because there are people who can't figure it out...

Who said anything about not using it? I use it, my family uses it, I think it's swell. I was talking about the PROBLEMS of the FastPass system.

I'm not some neo-Luddite who wants to get rid of something because there's somebody who can't use it. Hell, I even explained FastPass to somebody.

--T

Ghoulish Delight
09-23-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by tod
Who said anything about not using it? I use it, my family uses it, I think it's swell. I was talking about the PROBLEMS of the FastPass system.

I'm not some neo-Luddite who wants to get rid of something because there's somebody who can't use it. Hell, I even explained FastPass to somebody.

--T I just don't consider the fact that some people can't understand it as a "problem of the system." I consider it unavoidable.

hefferdude
09-23-2002, 01:17 PM
Perhaps, distribute in spurts. Rather than open the park, turn the machines on, and let people grab 'em until they run out, only distribute X number. Then wait and hour. Then distribute X more, etc. until they run out. Or alternately, distribute in 1 hour windows, then wait two hours. That will spread distribution out and give people a greater chance. Heck, they should do something like this for Splash right now.

While this may seem to "even the odds "( an interesting oxymoron )
for guests not knowledgable of FP,it would
prove very frustrating to those of us who use FP regularly.
To have to "second guess" staggered distribution? I can only
imagine the exasperation of getting to an FP kioske to
find it is closed down to "be fair".
It also should be noted the FP system is confused with
other systems at other parks that DO cost extra.
I usually stop to explain how to use FP if I overhear a
guest wondering aloud about FP, although I am careful
not to be a KIA ( one of them dang APers)
:)

CEO Andrew
09-23-2002, 03:16 PM
Hefferdude,

What do you mean by KIA? I agree . . . I think it's unfortunate that so many people confuse FastPass with Universal's VIP Program or other programs that require additional payment. That's the best part about DL's FastPass - it's free, so anyone (who knows) can use it!

MammaSilva
09-23-2002, 03:24 PM
KIA = Know It All

innerSpaceman
09-23-2002, 04:15 PM
FastPass is a tool of the Devil
(Short Form of my usual Anti-FastPass Tirade)

Ghoulish Delight
09-23-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
FastPass is a tool of the Devil
(Short Form of my usual Anti-FastPass Tirade) That's a terrible thing to call yourself. ;)