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Attractions 87
06-28-2002, 10:13 AM
What do people think of the following:

A long time ago, CFA used to issue Special Assistance Passes, and they used to ask for doctor's notes. They don't do that anymore, believing anyone who asks for a SAP.

How about Doctor's Notes now being required to obtain a Special Assistance Pass. People get one freebie. City Hall will record their Driver's Licence number (or the DL number of a parent if it is a minor). After that, Doctor's Note or no SAP. This policy to help cut down on the SAP fraud going on, mostly by teenagers or APers.

Comments?

Attractions 87

justagrrl
06-28-2002, 10:16 AM
I don't use a pass that you mentioned...but was told by another family that if I wanted to have an good way to get around standing in lines and what not...that was the way to go...that that's what they do all the time. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how families that use the passes legitimately feel...

...but as for me...I say go for it. A doctor's note shouldn't be too difficult to get...but then again...how difficult would it be to forge a note from a doctor? With computers and what not I could make a pretty good one and it wouldn't take too long at all. It might deter a lot of people but those determined to cheat would still find away around it.

DisneylandKid
06-28-2002, 10:20 AM
I wish that it was more difficult to get a SAP. I'm a teenager, and one of my friends badly needs to get a SAP everytime she goes. However, she does not look disabled so I'm afraid people think we are cheating the system. If it was more difficult to get them, maybe people wouldn't think that.

disguy
06-28-2002, 10:21 AM
Last April on a friday afternoon (after school got out) I was aproached by a group of teenagers a young girl grabbed my arm and pleaded with me to help them. They were trying to get a pass from City hall but they were all under age and needed someone older...they asked if I would say I was with them and get it for them...when I looked at the girl I couldn't hep but notice the sly smirk on her face. so I told her and her friend to go to hel*. I wanted to report it but they ran off. (I doubt disney would have done anything, since they hardly do anything about the little monsters in the park anyway)

I say this: Would you make a fake parking sticker to park in a good spot at the mall? most people would say no...then don't do it at the park!
It's called Karma...you do that next thing you know you break your leg and you'll really need it :)

MammaSilva
06-28-2002, 10:26 AM
I agree, no matter what Disney does those people who want to cheat will find a way to do it, this past week I noticed a few changes in the way the SAP's were 'dealt' with tho and none of them were bad. At splash if you had an SAP but no wheelchair and could handle the stairs you used the fastpass entrance and the SAP acted as a Fastpass, if you had a wheelchair and had to use it to get to the loading area, they had an area with some benches (very thoughtful IMHO) and the group got in that line, one wheelchair group at a time was allowed up to the loading area. Saved the CM's in the loading area from having to try and rearrange wheelchairs and EVC's and made it easier for the single riders to get to the loading area. On haunted they only allow 2 wheelchairs down at the loading area at a time, other than that the SAP's were the same as they had always been. Over in DCA the SAP's use the fastpass entrance to most attractions such as GRR and Soaring. I wouldn't have a problem with them making the SAP's have a checkin/wait time grid on the back where you went to the CM on a ride they initialed it with a checkin time and return time for those rides that don't have fastpass

teri
06-28-2002, 03:11 PM
Any time you believe that someone is trying to cheat, don't confront them yourself, you should inform a CM. They will call security, and a plain clothes security officer will follow them. If they are found to be line-jumping by pretending to be disabled when they are not, they will be ejected from the park.

As for asking for a doctor's note -- it is an invasion of privacy, and my understanding is that there may be a liability issue as well. Plus, doctors' notes can be forged. That said, we always carry a letter and our doctors' cards anyway, in case of emergency.

How do I feel about it? My son and I both need the SAP. I think the way they handle it at Disneyland is just about right for us, and I really hate to see people messing it up by cheating. It was all I could do to make one loop around each park, we didn't even see all of either park in 3 days, and it took me 5 days to recover once I got home. I have no respect whatsoever for able-bodied people who cheat for convenience.

Attractions 87
06-28-2002, 03:38 PM
Teri,


Any time you believe that someone is trying to cheat, don't confront them yourself, you should inform a CM. They will call security, and a plain clothes security officer will follow them. If they are found to be line-jumping by pretending to be disabled when they are not, they will be ejected from the park.

Pardon me for saying, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This never happens. Okay, I should not say never. But Disney doesn't really have the guts to kick anyone out. If Disney won't even confront guests who assault CMs, they aren't going to do anything about a pass abuse.


As for asking for a doctor's note -- it is an invasion of privacy, and my understanding is that there may be a liability issue as well. Plus, doctors' notes can be forged. That said, we always carry a letter and our doctors' cards anyway, in case of emergency.

It is an invasion of privicy to ask what the disability is. It is not a privacy issue to require a Doctor's Note.

Doctor's notes can indeed be forged. But should we really take the philosophy of "since people are going to beat the system, then don't let's try anything"? Then why have laws and police and policy and security in the first place?

Attractions 87

teri
06-28-2002, 05:19 PM
No, actually, I have seen people taken out for line-jumping at WDW. I have also seen people busted for cheating, although I didn't exactly care to follow up on what happened to them. They didn't just get let go, they were being escorted away. On the other hand, I have seen a whole lot more line-jumping that didn't get any kind of response, which is unfortunate.

A person who knows more about ADA than I do told me that it is illegal under ADA to require medical documentation, but I have no way to know if that is true. And what good would be a doctor's note that didn't tell what the disability was???

dsnyredhead
06-28-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by mammasilva
I wouldn't have a problem with them making the SAP's have a checkin/wait time grid on the back where you went to the CM on a ride they initialed it with a checkin time and return time for those rides that don't have fastpass

Cedar Point uses this type of system and it seemed to work fine when I went there last year.

JeffG
06-29-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by teri
A person who knows more about ADA than I do told me that it is illegal under ADA to require medical documentation, but I have no way to know if that is true. And what good would be a doctor's note that didn't tell what the disability was???

Knotts requires documentation before they issue an SAP, so obviously it isn't illegal.

-Jeff

tikiboy
06-29-2002, 11:17 AM
What I always thought was wierd was that on Indy, when it first opened, they made a big deal about how the queue was ADA compliant.

Do any wheelchairs go through that queue now? Nope.

teri
06-29-2002, 01:37 PM
Jeff, IOA does also - that is why I have a hard time believing it... her argument was that they were in violation. ???

socabch
07-15-2002, 05:36 PM
her argument was that they were in violation. ???

From what I was told by a person that validates ADA's at my old job they are not in violation. It is in violation to deny someone something after finding out they are ADA. But these parks are offering something to ADA's that other guest don't need. You are required to have documentation to recieve a handicap placard. It was explained to me that any business that offers something (as a wheelchair) for ADA's either permanent or temp condition can ask for a Dr's order. Nothing listing the condition. Just stating that they are in need of a wheelchair. I've never looked in the area where the wheelchairs are rented, but does it state anything about wheelchair rentals are for persons in need of them for a medical condition. If not, then there is another loophole.

MammaSilva
07-15-2002, 07:16 PM
the problem with this is that we have gone to the park and not needed a wheelchair, then had something happen that created a need, one time it was a fall and a twisted ankle, another time it was a seizure from someone who hadn't had one in several years...another time it was blisters so bad we either rented a chair or they had to go back to the hotel for the rest of the trip...sometimes things happen after you leave home that create a need for the wheelchair, then what do they do, go to the first aide office and get a note from the nurse?

socabch
07-15-2002, 07:44 PM
mammasilva

Those are some real good points. I wish there was answer to keep people from abusing. Some people are just so selfish all they can think of is how to cheat the system and how can I be first all the time. No thought for people with real needs. It's sad.

Actually I did see a man twist his ankle pretty bad and then later I saw him in a wheelchair with his family and a wrapped foot watching the parade. I thought, that is nice that DL fixed him up so he can stay and watch the parade with his family.

JeffG
07-15-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by mammasilva
...sometimes things happen after you leave home that create a need for the wheelchair, then what do they do, go to the first aide office and get a note from the nurse?

Actually, that probably isn't a bad solution. Most of the injuries you described (with the possible exception of the bad blisters) sound severe enough that a visit to first aid would be wise anyway.

-Jeff

MammaSilva
07-15-2002, 08:26 PM
sorry Jeff, but with the exceptions of the blisters all the rest happened outside the park...but when you travel over 500/800 miles to make a trip you don't turn around and go home because one person needs more assistance than they did when you started out :)

mad4mky
07-16-2002, 08:38 AM
I posted this possible solution on some other threads...I know Disney won't use it...but it is a possible solution.

You don't need a SAP to rent a wheelchair. But, to get an actual SAP you must go to City hass and request one.
To deter people from abusing the system by renting a wheelchair to bypass the que line...make all people who want to rent a chair go into City Hall and request a SAP, so they may rent a chair. This is for people who need the chair for all types of reasons, whether a guest has a broken leg, non-visable disabilities, twist an ankle, etc.
This would probably deter a lot of abusers right there...maybe not. But it might make it a little more uncomfortable for the abusers to lie right out to a cast member.

People who really need to use a wheelchair and/or the SAP (like us, as we have a obviously disabled daughter) probably wouldn't mind this two-step system if they knew it would help deter the abusers of the SAP. Just ask most of us...we wouldn't mind.

Think about it...it might just work...(at least it couldn't hurt).

tjrj
07-16-2002, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by tikiboy
What I always thought was wierd was that on Indy, when it first opened, they made a big deal about how the queue was ADA compliant.

Do any wheelchairs go through that queue now? Nope.

Actually, the "big deal" is that the Indy line is able to handle wheelchairs-and in reality it is able to handle chairs quite nicely-unlike some of those attractions built before ADA where it is a physical impossiblity for a chair to fit thru the queue. I have used a chair my last 2 trips to DL-gone thru the Indy queue both times. I just think the ride is so much better when having the preshow experience-especially if you are with guests who have never experienced Indy. The problem arises when the CM's don't understand that the queue is accessible. Both times we have had the CM's at the door refuse admittance, and both times we have asked them to call a supervisor. When the stairs come up, we can use the elevator.

daveinMN
07-27-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by disguy
It's called Karma...you do that next thing you know you break your leg and you'll really need it :)

disguy, you are right. Back in 1991, I was riding with my friends in their Tans Am, and we saw this old man walking across the street, pushing his wheelchair with a bag of groceries in it. I yelled out my open window "You're supposed to ride in it, not PUSH IT"! He yelled back "How would you like it if I went over there and punched you in the nose"? Well, my buddies and I thought that was really funny. Within 1 year, I had stepped into a hole and herniated 2 discs in my back, and then found out I had Muscular Dystrophy. Now I need a 3 wheeled scooter to get around! I learned MY lesson. Never yell out an open window! LOL

I also wanted to know, if I am in my scooter, do I need an SAP? I will be coming out there around Christmas with my wife and two young kids. I can't wait to see my friends from the park. Do any of you know Wayne, in the Power Chair? Way back when I was AB, I used to carry him onto Star Tours and Space Mountain. He is a great guy, if you ever get a chance to talk to him.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic.

Dave

HBTiggerFan
07-28-2002, 08:53 AM
Well since Assistance Devices and braces are suppost to be reconized by the CMs w/o the SAP therolettically I would say "no"

But really, I would take that 3 minutes and go to City Hall at the beginning of the day and get one because its way easier than dealing with trying to educate an unknowing CM who insists that you need one, and won't let you through the SAP que until you get one.

MammaSilva
07-28-2002, 11:06 AM
I agree, not to mention that depending on the ride wheelchairs/scooters/evc's can be accomdated in the queue so if you need the SAP for issues other than mobility you should take the time to stop and get one, they will issue it for length of stay so you only need to do it once...