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Ghoulish Delight
06-28-2002, 08:14 AM
I am making no judgement on this. I just want an honest evaluation. Explain it to an outsider.

I don't know how long it's been implemented, but it seems that Disney park operations has fallen victim to the new-age management ideas. Basically, factionalize everyone. Create individual business units that, even though they are part of the same company, are financially and personelle-wise independent from each other. So ODV CMs are part of a different business unit that attraction CMs.

So, here's my question. Has this caused nothing but strife? Based on the posts I see around, there seems to be a lot of underlying dislike, jealousy, and territorialism between the CMs. Would it be better, in your opinion, if you were all treated as employees of the park, rather than employees of ODV, or employees of attractions.

It would seem to me that the current scheme would lead to lame competitiveness. That CMs (especially manager types) would tend to lean toward decissions that benefited their own business unit rather than the park as a whole. I'm sure Disney TRIES to foster partnership between the units, but I work at a company that is similarly split and I KNOW that we try to be cooperative when we can, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, our first alligiance is to our business unit.

Any comments?

marron-cream
06-28-2002, 06:32 PM
I don't know about hostility and what not, and personally I haven't seen any REAL strife between my department (Store Ops) and the others. There are minor things that can be blamed on lack of understanding on each side, but that's about it.

This is just my personal experience.

But you know, you could go even further and examine the different sub-divisions... the complexes within the department. I'd say with us, there's more competition and loyalty among the various complexes than with the various departments.

Hope this makes sense.

Ghoulish Delight
06-28-2002, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by marron-cream
I don't know about hostility and what not, and personally I haven't seen any REAL strife between my department (Store Ops) and the others. There are minor things that can be blamed on lack of understanding on each side, but that's about it.

This is just my personal experience.

But you know, you could go even further and examine the different sub-divisions... the complexes within the department. I'd say with us, there's more competition and loyalty among the various complexes than with the various departments.

Hope this makes sense. Yeah, I get what your saying. And I didn't mean to impy any true hostility, or anger, or purposeful spite. But, again I'm comparing to MY work, even if it's not personal or hostile, I see decisions made within business units that are solely to benefit the individual unit, even if it may hurt the overall company.

marron-cream
06-28-2002, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Yeah, I get what your saying. And I didn't mean to impy any true hostility, or anger, or purposeful spite. But, again I'm comparing to MY work, even if it's not personal or hostile, I see decisions made within business units that are solely to benefit the individual unit, even if it may hurt the overall company.

Oh, I know what you meant, my apologies if it didn't sound that way. As for decisions, again, I speak only from personal experience that I don't see decisions from other departments affecting my department so much. Maybe ODV selling the same trinkets we do might affect us, but not so much that it would bring anyone down. Again, I'd say look into the different complexes within the department, or even the different divisions of the same, er, section, like merchandise. I think it's a really bad idea on Disney's part to stock shops with things that clearly are labeled Walt Disney World, or worse, the Disney Store. People inevitably complain about it, like "Why can't we return this bag of stuff we bought last year at WDW?" or "Why is the Disney Store running a sale on xxxx item while you have it at full price?" and so on.

Cinemascribe
06-28-2002, 07:37 PM
Its been a long time since I worked at the park, and I just got back. However, when I worked in Store Ops on Mainstreet, and my sister worked in Custodial - there was some tension between her friends, and mine when we tried to get everyone together.

apparently these "particular" people felt that Store Ops acted "snobbish" and the Store Ops thought that the Custodial acted "locals only" about their group.. this could have been simply a personal feeling in this small group, but I remember it very vividly, and was sorry that we all couldn't simply enjoy the fact that we were working for a great company and having a lot of fun too!

just MHO

C

PhilMP
06-29-2002, 03:38 AM
Now don't get me wrong, I don't harbor any resentment or jealousy toward my other departments...except maybe Custodial (I'll explain later). There are just some behaviors/beliefs/attitudes that exist among the varying business units that a lot of CMs dislike.

Take Attractions...IMHO the Attractions people think they're God's gift to the Resort. They're the ones who have the most Guest interaction, the ones that Guests actually remember when they go to City Hall to fill out compliment/complaint forms. Heck, they even have their own figurehead, Maynard, (who is being beaten by an ODV CM this year in the compliment category, so there :)). I don't hate them, in fact, I have many friends from school who work Attractions, I just don't like a few CMs attitudes toward every other department.

This opinion goes towards every other department...except Custodial, and maybe Guest Control from time to times.

Now ODV and Custodial have issues with each other. Custodial hates us because they're the ones forced to clean up after the mess Guests leave after they buy popcorn, a churro, etc. ODV dislikes Custodial because they're PAID to clean up after Guests, not to walk around uselessly talking with their friends, which is what they seem to be doing 90% of the time. But the older CMs and the leads have the sense to know that cleaning is their job, and if they have to do a little more sweeping to get rid of popcorn a Guest spilled, it's okay. It's the young, newer, or bitter ones who complain constantly about how ODV makes a mess, doesn't clean up, etc.

Oh well, someone once said that working at the Resort is like high school. Each business unit qualifies as a clique, and like in HS, cliques to conflict with each other.

Phil

Ghoulish Delight
06-29-2002, 08:51 AM
btw, how long has this model of management been at DL? When did everyone stop being 'Disneyland Cast Members" and become ODV Cast Members, Attractions Cast Members, Store Ops, etc.?

marron-cream
06-29-2002, 12:20 PM
I agree with what Phil says about Attractions... One of my (Store Ops) peeves about Attractions CMs is the fact that they always send their 'problems' to us. Guest lose a hat on the ride? No biggie, just go to any given shop and ask for a new one. We'll do it! Guest has their stroller contents stolen after parking out in front of a ride? Not an issue, just go into a shop and ask for replacements of your stuff! Replacing the stuff is do-able, the problems come when determining which department pays for it. Theoretically, if a guest loses their hat on a ride, Attractions is responsible for determining if they want to replace it or not. If they decide to do so, then it's up to them to fill out the paperwork and pay for said items. What seems to happen more and more is Attractions CMs will send a guest over to a shop with no kind of paperwork, expecting us to do everything and pay for everything. We can't because of the management over our own heads, so we have to send the guests back to the attraction and make the CMs there get the proper paperwork. Everybody loses in the end, 'cos the guest is annoyed and the Store Ops CM looks like the greedy bad guy. :confused:

mousey_girl
06-29-2002, 01:50 PM
You mean to say, when I lost my stuffed Eeyore on the Matterhorn I didn't have to buy another one??? Ok, that was in high school, but still, I figured it was my own fault because I didn't secure him before the ride. As for stoller contents being stolen, that too isn't the Park's responsibility, it is the person who was too lazy to take their stuff to a locker (I only say this because I have done it).

Polar33
06-29-2002, 08:16 PM
Personaly, I don't dislike any other departments as a whole. Heck, I don't even have that option, about a third of my friends from high school now work at the resort...atleast one in every department. I do however dislike the attitudes that alot of departments seem to share for other departments. Not everyone shares these bad attitutes towards other departments but there are people that tend to stick out a bit.

There was one time when I was walking backstage that an Attractons CM cursed at me for no reason and continued walking. Once when I was in the park as a guest I witnessed a Custodial CM putting trash (popcorn boxes, napkins, etc.) into a popcorn wagon after the vendor had closed the wagon for the night, and then going to tell his Custodial buddies about it. I also recall a recent incident involving an ODV CM and a Guest Control CM who got into a very heated argument over how to get stock to the wagons during Fantasmic!'s re-opening weekend. Granted these are extreme cases, but attitudes from these people tend to spread to the people they work with.

I also think that alot of it is based on a misunderstanding of how other departments run. In marron-cream's post she mentions a good one (Attractions does that with us all the time too btw). Attractions CMs aren't aware of all of the problems it can cause when a guest comes up claiming to have lost something and that the guy who works on the Matterhorn said that you would replace it for them.

The only remedy to this that I can see would be logisticaly impossible...training every CM in the park to work in every department. It would take over a month of training and would make the shift schedulers jobs impossible.

Oh and Phil...are you sure that that line shouldn't read that "Custodial is PAID to clean up after Guests, not to walk around complaining about it". I tell ya...I try to keep my work area as clean as humanly possible yet there are still some Custodial CMs who have came up to me telling me that I should help them out more.

Oh well...It's either the buisiness world or high school...I can't tell which. :rolleyes:

Cinemascribe
06-29-2002, 08:52 PM
Well, Most of this comes down to common courtesy of your fellow workers, which is hard to find in any industry, but you would expect it to be more prominent at The Happiest Place On Earth.:o

Well, I vow never to tell any guests to go to ODV or StoreOps if they lose their hat or get anything stolen.. swear on my Minnie Ears

PhilMP
06-29-2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Polar33
I also recall a recent incident involving an ODV CM and a Guest Control CM who got into a very heated argument over how to get stock to the wagons during Fantasmic!'s re-opening weekend.


Actually, it was an argument between Theme Park One, one of the Guest Control leads, a couple ODV leads, and the ODV stockers. You see, whenever Guest Control fails to do their job (which is usually all the time, considering the amount of people who crowd walkways while the CM attending to the walkway is busy talking to his/her friends or watching the show), the leads get some heat from managers, who turn around and play a game of cover-my-butt and blame it on ODV, since we just happen to be pushing something through the area that would easily go through.

Phil

justagrrl
06-30-2002, 07:49 AM
So basically the hostility is all a part of some sort of "cover your butt and pass the buck" kind of system?

Sounds just like the real world to me... It's office politics without the office. Something I've learned, however difficult it is to do- still, is to own up to whatever it is and say I'm sorry. I dislike the idea that guests get sent back and forth because of the game - whether you think it is or not - it sounds like a game to me. Customer service should come first. If they say they lost a hat - and the policy is to replace it - then why should the customer have to go back and forth trying to figure out what the correct procedure is. Yeah - the attractions CM should have taken care of it...but aren't you just adding insult to injury by making them go back and forth. Woudn't it be better to just give it to them - and fill out the paperwork yourself...and leave it to your boss and the attractions boss to deal with incorrect procedures? Putting in on the customer to go back and forth and have to finagle it out. (Of course, I never realized they'd replace that sort of stuff - and if your stuff is stolen from your stroller, imho, that's your own fault for being so darn trusting of 40,000 strangers.)

I think what bothers me is that CM's seem to be making customers a part of the game.

Maybe I'm just being naive.

Mouse
06-30-2002, 08:39 AM
I believe the way we have (separate divisions) is the only way there can be. Even smaller corporations have separate departments (i.e., accounting, marketing, etc..). There is no way to run the park, with the number of cast members employed and the number of jobs to fill, without these departments. For better or for worse this is how it is.

As for competition between departments, who said that isn't healthy? There are a few bad apples who may use competition as a reason to sabotage another department, but other then that, the need to do better then someone else has always made a person try harder.

Cinemascribe
06-30-2002, 01:41 PM
Well.. It sounds like the same old case of a few bad employees in a department giving the rest a bad name.

Seems like ODV takes the brunt of alot of issues, but I'm afraid there is always one department that gets that in any company. It is usually made stronger by the challenge though.

I hope this is true of ODV.

corrinhorn
06-30-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by justagrrl
Customer service should come first. If they say they lost a hat - and the policy is to replace it - then why should the customer have to go back and forth trying to figure out what the correct procedure is. Yeah - the attractions CM should have taken care of it...but aren't you just adding insult to injury by making them go back and forth. Woudn't it be better to just give it to them - and fill out the paperwork yourself...and leave it to your boss and the attractions boss to deal with incorrect procedures? Putting in on the customer to go back and forth and have to finagle it out. (Of course, I never realized they'd replace that sort of stuff - and if your stuff is stolen from your stroller, imho, that's your own fault for being so darn trusting of 40,000 strangers.)

I think what bothers me is that CM's seem to be making customers a part of the game.

Maybe I'm just being naive.

let me give you a scenerio to show you why the guest gets tossed back and forth. Two high school kids go up to a glow wagon one evening. As the get closer, they hear a guest saying, "I Know, but the guy at Matterhorn sent me back to you to get another rose. I lost mine on the ride, and he said that you would replace it for me."

The cast member, wanting to be helpful goes ahead a give them the rose, free of charge so that the guest will be happy. The two high schoolers walk around the park, building up the courage to try it for themselves. think up a cast member name so that they sound more authentic, until they finally see another glow wagan somewhere else in the park. They approach...

"Hi, we lost a rose on Big Thunder Mountian, and one of the guys who was working there, Adam I think his name was, said that you could replace it for us. It is for my girlfriend. Our three month anniversary is on Tuesday."

(Now, if our policy was just to take the guests word for it, then the CM would give them a free rose, and we would be SOL.) This is why we need the paperwork.

Sorry to say it, but guests at Disneyland are just as capable of stealing as everybody else is.

Hope that cleared it up.

Durliin
06-30-2002, 04:59 PM
Well I find that odd that Attractions are Sending Guests over to Stopres and ODV carts with out any NSA's...seeing how if guest comes up to me and tells me there story I usually Get the proper paperwork from the lead and write it out for them to get the item they need replaced.... Guests comming up to the stores saying ohh such and such from this attraction said go to you to replace my Hat are probally lying if they dont have the NSA with them or the Attraction CM who said that is a Very DUMB New Hire that for some reason has no clue what a NSA is

Durliin
06-30-2002, 05:00 PM
oh yea and I have no hatred towards any Dept heck I use to work in the parkinglot my GF works in Foods and I have Firends in all Depts.... I mean heck its just a Job

PhilMP
06-30-2002, 10:35 PM
You know, I think only Guest Relations hands out NSA tickets, and they hand them out like they're going out of style. However, not many Guests know this, and when we tell them, they think it's too much of a hassle to go over to City Hall, tell the Guest Relations CM their story, wait for the CM to fill out the ticket (which takes about 10 seconds), and walk back out and get the item they lost.

Attractions doesn't take the time to do the paperwork, or make a note for a manager or lead, because they're too busy telling people which line to go to...while ODV and Store Ops CMs have all the time in the world, even though they're dealing with thousands of Guests themselves, answering questions, taking money, ringing merchandise up, and watching for possible theft...all at the same time.

You know, there should be just one day in the offseason, mid-week so it's really slow, where people change departments for just one shift. Attractions can work Foods/ODV/Store Ops, and we can work Attractions. It wouldn't happen, but I know it would show them what we go through when we're sent a Guest who lost something without the proper paperwork as to who's going to account for it.

Phil

Uncle Dick
06-30-2002, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by PhilMP
You know, I think only Guest Relations hands out NSA tickets, and they hand them out like they're going out of style.
Phil
During RT&P training, I seem to recall hearing that the parking leads had access to NSAs in one form or another. Whether this means a trip to the guest information booth or Parking Central, I'm not exactly sure. It does seem like an awful lot of trouble to send a guest all the way from the structure or DtD over to the Esplanade. Not that this is really pertinent to the issue at handů

marron-cream
06-30-2002, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by justagrrl
So basically the hostility is all a part of some sort of "cover your butt and pass the buck" kind of system?

Sounds just like the real world to me... It's office politics without the office. Something I've learned, however difficult it is to do- still, is to own up to whatever it is and say I'm sorry. I dislike the idea that guests get sent back and forth because of the game - whether you think it is or not - it sounds like a game to me. Customer service should come first. If they say they lost a hat - and the policy is to replace it - then why should the customer have to go back and forth trying to figure out what the correct procedure is. Yeah - the attractions CM should have taken care of it...but aren't you just adding insult to injury by making them go back and forth. Woudn't it be better to just give it to them - and fill out the paperwork yourself...and leave it to your boss and the attractions boss to deal with incorrect procedures? Putting in on the customer to go back and forth and have to finagle it out. (Of course, I never realized they'd replace that sort of stuff - and if your stuff is stolen from your stroller, imho, that's your own fault for being so darn trusting of 40,000 strangers.)

I think what bothers me is that CM's seem to be making customers a part of the game.

Maybe I'm just being naive.

I had a feeling people would think that. See? We end up looking like the greedy bad guy. To add to Corrin's story, say we have a guest who comes into a hat shop and says, "I lost my hat on BTM. This hat was SO SPECIAL to me because my dead fill-in-distant-relative-here bought it for me. And gee, I don't see it anywhere in the park. The CM at BTM told me you all would give me a new hat, so here, I've decided I want this $35 fancy hat because that's the only way I can alleviate my pain." We get that ALL THE TIME. Sad as it is, there are so many guests out there trying to cheat the system that we can't just say, sure, hey take anything you want. Here's a true story that happened a few days ago in my shop: a woman comes in with a NSA from a Guest Relations CM for three Mickey Mouse ears, the total not to exceed $30. Clearly the CM meant for the mouse ears to be the kind that can be embroidered. This woman went through the shop and picked three of the most expensive items with ears that she could find, the cheapest of which was $14. She was very irate when I informed her that her choices wouldn't do, since it'd total to about $50+. I thought she'd lost the ears, but it turned out that this guest had told the Guest Relations CM that it was her daughter's birthday, so this CM had given her these ears as a gift. Instead of being grateful and happy for the gift, she ended up mad as heck because she didn't get to have the expensive sequined ones. Please.

We do try to put customer service first. But we can't just give away everything to anyone who asks. IMO, it's not the park's fault at all if a guest loses something on a ride, or their child throws up all over themselves because of excitement. They should have secured their items better and brought a change of clothes.

I rarely am a cheerleader for management, but I have to say our bosses have enough to deal with without having to cover the butts of some CM who was just too lazy to do the little act of ripping out a NSA from the booklet and fill it out. Yeah, it sounds like it would be ideal to say let them deal with it, but the reality is it's not that simple.

MammaSilva
06-30-2002, 11:11 PM
Ok this is sort of a side question but what the heck ever happened to taking personal responsibility for your stuff, heck every single ride has the warning about your stuff, why should the park replace it because you didn't pay attention? I mean yeah ok nice guest relations but it seems to foster the oh well who cares they'll give me another one attitude????? Now I did see a situation in Pizza Port, the family had two trays of food, Mom was carrying one, young boy about 10/11 carrying second one while Dad had younger siblings at a table, about half way to the table young boy trips/stumbles whatevers and loses the tray, now the food was already paid for and technically Pizza Port wasn't responsible or liable but the lead was right there, they went and replaced the food without a bit of hassle to the family and consoled the little guy for being so upset about making a mess, now there is a reasonable situation for the park to absorb a loss, but teenagers who lose their hats, glow roses or whatevers on a ride deserve to have to absorb the loss IMHO...

marron-cream
06-30-2002, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by mammasilva
Ok this is sort of a side question but what the heck ever happened to taking personal responsibility for your stuff, heck every single ride has the warning about your stuff, why should the park replace it because you didn't pay attention? I mean yeah ok nice guest relations but it seems to foster the oh well who cares they'll give me another one attitude????? Now I did see a situation in Pizza Port, the family had two trays of food, Mom was carrying one, young boy about 10/11 carrying second one while Dad had younger siblings at a table, about half way to the table young boy trips/stumbles whatevers and loses the tray, now the food was already paid for and technically Pizza Port wasn't responsible or liable but the lead was right there, they went and replaced the food without a bit of hassle to the family and consoled the little guy for being so upset about making a mess, now there is a reasonable situation for the park to absorb a loss, but teenagers who lose their hats, glow roses or whatevers on a ride deserve to have to absorb the loss IMHO...

Thank you! :D
And yeah, it's one thing to have a family lose a meal because of an accident like the one you mentioned. It was accidental. If a guest buys, say, a lollipop from me and turns around a breaks it, I'll replace it. I've replaced a hat for a guest who dropped it in a puddle one minute after buying it. It just has to be reasonable. Replacing something lost on a ride is not reasonable to me, because the guest should have had some idea. You ride something that goes fast, and in the dark, chances are your hat will fall off.

SpacedOutCM
06-30-2002, 11:42 PM
If a Guest lost something on one of my attractions, I just tell them that it won't be collected until the end of the night. I am basically telling them tough luck.

I , like many others have stated, agree that they should be responsible with their stuff. And I do agree that there are certain circumstances that would allow for a replacement.

Last week, a Guest lost his hat on the Matterhorn. I said to him "sorry, but we wont be able to collect anythig that has fallen until the end of the night, which would be around 8:30pm. And then after it's collect, it's taken down to Lost & Found on Main Street."

He is like "So there is no way for you guys to get get it now?"

And I am like "not unless we close down the ride for one hat"

Another Matterhorn CM heard the situation and told me to NSA him a hat. I told him "no!" and that it is not our fault he lost his hat. I yelled out that it's a rollercoaster and if they don't stow away their stuff, that it could fall out. I wanted to make sure the Guest heard me when I said that, and I am pretty sure he did.

But the CM (he's also a lead on that attraction but wasn't the lead that day) me to do it anyways because of "guest service". I told him that if an NSA were to be given to the Guest that he would have to do it because I didn't want any part of it So he went and filled one out and gave it to the Guest. Ugghh.. that really made me mad. Later that day, the ride broke down. I had to go into the mountain and guess what I found... that guys hat. I took it and when i went on my break, I took that hat and threw it in one of the garbage compactors. I didn't know what else to do with it. I for sure wasn't going to take it to Lost & Found.

I don't like NSA's.

thamnarestan
06-30-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by PhilMP
You know, I think only Guest Relations hands out NSA tickets, and they hand them out like they're going out of style. However, not many Guests know this, and when we tell them, they think it's too much of a hassle to go over to City Hall, tell the Guest Relations CM their story, wait for the CM to fill out the ticket (which takes about 10 seconds), and walk back out and get the item they lost.

Attractions doesn't take the time to do the paperwork, or make a note for a manager or lead, because they're too busy telling people which line to go to...while ODV and Store Ops CMs have all the time in the world, even though they're dealing with thousands of Guests themselves, answering questions, taking money, ringing merchandise up, and watching for possible theft...all at the same time.

Phil

I always keep one or two NSA forms in my pocket to replace lost or wet shoes, clothing, etc. I never use them to backdoor guests on attractions, because we have special fastpasses and re-ad passes for that, but I usually do not hesitate to TGS replacement items. (I don't replace items such as hats that are lost because of the guest's own negligence, however.)

Attractions CMs are encouraged to issue NSA forms whenever the situtation dictates it.