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View Full Version : The complaint of an AP holder to online media



olegc
06-22-2007, 07:02 AM
I wrote this comment below to another site - but it stands to reason that it should be applied to all chat and blog sites.

"I do have one MAJOR complaint. I wish that Jim and other online bloggers/writers would STOP using the annual passholder crutch. We get it - there are many overzealous fans - but there's passion on this board too and I don't see Jim claiming that the foamers include all of us online. There is a very vocal minority of AP holders that seems to be taken as the symbol for all of us - and frankly I'd wish writers would be more ascertive in their analysis of the fan demographic."

I am tired of being lumped in with the fringe element and I wish it would just stop. It's maddening to think that whenever I post about things for DLR or even WDW and if I mention AP I still get rolling eyes or people making certain comments. How many now do it so as not to be labeled themselves as foaming APs - when they have a shiny renewed pass in their wallet or purse.

Sorry for the rant - but darn it - I should be able to have passion for my park and hobby and yet NOT be deemed an obsessive person. I go because I love the place and hang out for lunch now and then. then I go on with my life. Is it too much to ask the online bloggers (and they know who they are - they all started here on MP) to cut out the negativity and really do some work?

Where is David Koenig when you need him :D

june1st1997
06-22-2007, 07:16 AM
I support your right to post :)

However I think your post has no place on this board. It may apply on other Disney sites. Not here.

HAVE A MAGICAL DAY

neverlander
06-22-2007, 07:23 AM
Huh?

layflowers
06-22-2007, 02:45 PM
I don't think you're fringe olegc. I get your post and I agree that nobody should be lumped into a group or stereotype. But I don't think that MP is that type of place. Why do you feel that way?


**********
edited to say:

Just reread your post and I don't think you feel this way about MP... just shared to vent?

olegc
06-22-2007, 02:51 PM
I don't think you're fringe olegc. I get your post and I agree that nobody should be lumped into a group or stereotype. But I don't think that MP is that type of place. Why do you feel that way?

well, i guess it was not clear in the post that MP is at fault. My intent is more a general comment on web bloggers and "insiders" that make comments or reference to DLR AP Holders. I felt posting here on MOusePad would let me voice my opinion without getting a bunch of flame private messages and the thread shooting off into a tanget.

So I don't have issue with MP - it's more a general comment.

vegaspixie
06-22-2007, 05:42 PM
Olegc, I completely understand where you are coming from. I've seen some other boards with some rather unfriendly things to say about APers....

However, I would have to say that MousePlanet is such an upbeat, postive, true fan community!!!

So you just have to accept that certain forums and websites are slanted one way or another; personally, I just ignore the AP-bashing blather or skip those sites altogether!

I love MousePlanet!! :)

june1st1997
06-22-2007, 06:40 PM
Ah... See I thought you meant you had experienced that on MousePlanet... Which seemed unlikely. So I assumed you were looking to start a heated thread.

Ya. I totally agree there are some sites out there that do not seem very AP friendly... one in particular springs to mind... That site is fun sometimes... But if I am looking to feed my Disney Soul... It's gotta be MousePlanet.

Well you know what they say happens when you ASSume, huh. :)

Ya guess I proved that one. :)

Sorry for the snipe and I sure hope you didn't really get PM'd with irate comments.

coronado_g
06-22-2007, 10:27 PM
I'm happy to stand up and proudly say that I'm an AP holder.
Foam On, friends - Foam On!!!!

Clotho
06-22-2007, 10:40 PM
I support you, too.

I guess I read those kinds of threads as simply applying to the extreme minority. You can't take it personally! It's understood that the comments are about "those people" and not you!

But I know that can be hard to stomach. :( And any stereotype with which we relate can hurt.

The old man
06-24-2007, 06:59 AM
What do I care if you're an AP? And what do you care what bloggers (of all people) think of you? I find very little bashing of APs on MP.

Pat-n-Eil
06-24-2007, 07:54 AM
The root of the matter is that the anonymity provided by internet message boards allows folks to make posts that are bolder than their actual personality. Another unfortunate side effect is that tone, sarcasm and sometimes humor don't translate well to the written forum as they would in person.. there's little inflection, no facial expression, no body language.. it is hard to put the right spin on words.

I do believe another factor involved here is the climate of hyper-sensitivity we've had in the last few years in this country - and perhaps most of the western world. Even a poster who tries t cover the bases with the right kind of qualifiers and disclaimers will still get misread.

If I were to write something like: "Some Annual Passholders have a bad attitude toward the castmembers and display a certain sense of entitlement about Disneyland". I can guarantee that the word Some will be lost on a hyper-sensitve APer and he will assume I was talking about him.. when in fact he could be one of the majority who keep the parks flush with cash flow and enthusiasm.

I'm about to become an Annual Passholder for the very first time because I love going to the park and I know I'll have the opportunity to go there at least one more time in the next year. It was a financial decision, but I will have a certain sense of pride when I let others know that I'm an Annual Passholder for the Disneyland Parks.

There are a few inherent truths about message boards.
Threads will wander off topic
New readers will not immediately understand the netiquette of the board
Your posts will be misread or misunderstood by someone, sometime
Generalizations occur in the interest of writing posts quickly
Hyper-Sensitivity will make mountains out of mole hills.

WDW heart
06-24-2007, 08:19 AM
There are a few inherent truths about message boards.
Threads will wander off topic
New readers will not immediately understand the netiquette of the board
Your posts will be misread or misunderstood by someone, sometime
Generalizations occur in the interest of writing posts quickly
Hyper-Sensitivity will make mountains out of mole hills.


Wise World Wide Web Words.

This is what should be posted under FAQ.

crazi4dlr
06-24-2007, 08:30 AM
Very well put Pat! I agree with you that so much is lost in writing that one would love to have come across. It applys to email as well as posting/blogging. It just applys to the written word in any form. But I am a face to face type person, I'm very visual.

I also want to say that though I am not an AP'er at this time, I intend to be when we go in Dec for the very same reason that Pat stated, it's financial. I must say though that I have had the opportunity to meet several AP'ers on my trips to DLR while waiting for various shows or sitting around DTD. They are normal everyday people and my only problem with them is my jealousy that they get to the park whenever they want. I would LOVE to be able to wander DTD any time I wanted to and then just meander into the park for lunch, dinner or just to do some people watching. More power to the So Cal folks for that privelge, wish I was there!

cstephens
06-24-2007, 09:17 PM
If I were to write something like: "Some Annual Passholders have a bad attitude toward the castmembers and display a certain sense of entitlement about Disneyland". I can guarantee that the word Some will be lost on a hyper-sensitve APer and he will assume I was talking about him.. when in fact he could be one of the majority who keep the parks flush with cash flow and enthusiasm.

Actually, there was a very recent thread on this board about AP behaviour, and the "some" was very definitely left out of the comment. Using the word "some" would have elicited very different responses, I think.

The Blue Parrot
06-26-2007, 02:14 PM
I wrote this comment below to another site - but it stands to reason that it should be applied to all chat and blog sites.

"I do have one MAJOR complaint. I wish that Jim and other online bloggers/writers would STOP using the annual passholder crutch. We get it - there are many overzealous fans - but there's passion on this board too and I don't see Jim claiming that the foamers include all of us online. There is a very vocal minority of AP holders that seems to be taken as the symbol for all of us - and frankly I'd wish writers would be more ascertive in their analysis of the fan demographic."

I am tired of being lumped in with the fringe element and I wish it would just stop. It's maddening to think that whenever I post about things for DLR or even WDW and if I mention AP I still get rolling eyes or people making certain comments. How many now do it so as not to be labeled themselves as foaming APs - when they have a shiny renewed pass in their wallet or purse.

Sorry for the rant - but darn it - I should be able to have passion for my park and hobby and yet NOT be deemed an obsessive person. I go because I love the place and hang out for lunch now and then. then I go on with my life. Is it too much to ask the online bloggers (and they know who they are - they all started here on MP) to cut out the negativity and really do some work?

Where is David Koenig when you need him :D

To make a long story short...

Yes, it is too bad that a minority of Annual Passholders do color the experience at Disney Theme Parks in such a negative light.

However, there are more of these people every day who seem to think that the Disney Theme Park experience revolves solely around them. And if they don't get exactly what they want when they want, they go off the deep end and make a spectacle of themselves. Everything from restaurant reservations to pin trading and even character interactions can and have been made extremely negative by not only AP's but just plain guests.

Somewhere along the line, consumers went from what can a company do for me to what can I get from a company (to steal a phrase from John F Kennedy). Personally, I trace it back to the AP Light Magic Preview when folks stormed City Hall because they heard refunds were being given. Ever since, that kind of mentality has been associated, right or wrong, with the Annual Passholder.

Disneyland is not an entitlement. It's a privilege, even if one has to pay a high price for it. No Annual Pass offers anyone the right to abuse a Cast Member. I'm just waiting for the day that a smart CM takes just enough of a guest to ask for their name and then files a workplace harassment or hostile workplace lawsuit against Disney and the guest. It's just ugly out there and AP's, sad to say even a minority, make it that way every day.

Don't believe me? Check out this for your self. Why is it that you see so few CM's wearing Pin Trading Lanyards now? It's because they got tired of AP's - yes, Annual Passholders - being so abusive when Pin Trading.

And as Blogger who used to write for "Jim" and now has his own site, I know that there are both good and bad AP's and that not all can be lumped one way or the other. But the bad are more visible than the good, and it's up to the good to change that.

If you want to change the perception, don't go after "Jim" or other messengers. Make the difference by thanking that Outdoor Vending CM selling you that Coke or the Foods CM cleaning your table. Just the words "thank you" can show great appreciation on a very personal level.

It takes a lot of "attaboys" to erase one "bad mark".

olegc
06-26-2007, 04:10 PM
Somewhere along the line, consumers went from what can a company do for me to what can I get from a company (to steal a phrase from John F Kennedy). Personally, I trace it back to the AP Light Magic Preview when folks stormed City Hall because they heard refunds were being given. Ever since, that kind of mentality has been associated, right or wrong, with the Annual Passholder..

This is not unique to Disneyland - but is now common in American culture as to the "i want mine" mentality. True consumer sentiment as it were - and yes it's ugly. Not just in buying goods - but in everything (welfare, politics, fame, etc.)


It takes a lot of "attaboys" to erase one "bad mark".

Believe me - I do this all of the time. And my point is not that the few bad apples spoil it for all - my point is it's EASY for online journalists (and now print taking their lead) to focus on the most vocal and negative aspects because it "sells" - like Jerry Springer and Los Angeles local evening news with car chases, etc. It's ugly - but people love it because they can point and say "wow, look how aweful. Glad it's not me"

it's a crutch in my opinion - and one too easily used to justify a position. That was my point.

KDR
06-26-2007, 04:26 PM
To make a long story short...

<snippage>

It takes a lot of "attaboys" to erase one "bad mark".

Well said, Mr. Cotton's Parrot, Well said.