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dawnid
06-18-2007, 11:56 AM
Why do AP’s think they are special or deserve “specials/special treatmeant”. I was born and raised a local so during my life time I’ve been the occasional 1 or 2 trips a year guest, APer and for a couple of years a part-time CM. My kids are currently CM’s and they come home with stories about the treatment they receive from AP’s and sometimes the stories make me proud to be an APer and sometimes they make me cringe.

I’ve always felt lucky to have the opportunity to have the AP. I’ve got the Premium so I don’t have to worry about parking fees, I get discounts on “stuff” I just can’t seem to live without, and after about my 4th visit I get into Disneyland FREE. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to have a bigger discount and I’ve NEVER met a perk I didn’t like; but I’ve never felt like Disney OWED me more for having the pass. I’m lucky that time allowing I can run in ride California Screamin’ or watch the Fireworks and leave. If I’ve got an itch to just walk down Main St. I can. If I’m in the park and it starts to rain – no problem – I’ll come back another day.

Maybe its because I’m a small business owner but once I’ve gone to the park 4/5 times I see it that I am now a liability to Disney. They potentially are losing money every time I enter the park. Technically I take the place of a full paying out of towner. Now we all know that ya never go in without buying something – dole whip, cookie, soda, corn dog, trinkets, etc. so Disneyland IS making on us. I my case way to much money but I’ve just always thought that my “Cookie” was bigger than Disney’s in this AP situation.

This wasn’t meant to be a knock on APers (being one myself) or a ra-ra for Disney corporate (that’s another issue altogether) just a moments reflection on how lucky we are to be able to visit The Happiest Place on Earth just because we feel like it.

yohomama212
06-18-2007, 12:16 PM
This is my first year with an AP. We bought the SoCal passports in January and then my mom paid for our upgrades to Deluxe in March. I too love being able to go to the parks (mostly) whenever I want. If DS tells me he wants to go to DL for dinner and he's had a good week at home and at school, we're likely to go! This year I've made close to 20 trips to DL and done two trips where I never even rode a ride!

Before this year, it had been two years since I had been to DL, and four trips in the two years before that, and maybe five trips in the 20 years before that!

I don't feel like I'm owed anything for being and APer. I'm just glad to finally have one! I treat the CMs with the same courtesy I hope every guest gives them because some of them actually are starting to remember me! AGH! I don't need the repuation of being a stuck up APer. I know that if they weren't there then I wouldn't be able to enjoy the wonderful experience they provide!

I also feel bad for posting my frequent trip activites here sometimes. I know that there are many many many wonderful MPers here who don't get to just stop by the HPOE like I do and I don't want to hurt feelings. If I ever start to sound like I'm bragging I hope someone will step up and tell me to shut up!

Elizabeth

Gone2Disneyland
06-18-2007, 12:23 PM
I've been a PAP for several years and have never felt like I owned the park. I've always felt priviledged that I could afford a Premium and that I get to go in whenever I'm able. I've read about APs who apparently spoil it for others with a presumptive attitude when they're there, and that's always been a foreign idea to me!

Spazz
06-18-2007, 12:28 PM
I am a PAP and I have never considered myself a liability to Disneyland. I do live in the SF Bay Area, go to Disneyland about 4 times per year (4-5 days per trip) and we spend a lot of money when we go because we usually stay at one of the Disney hotels, we eat at Napa Rose at least once per trip, buy lots of Disney merchandise and eat most all of our meals at the other Disney restaurants. Disney makes plenty of $ off of me! I am grateful I can visit so often and that Disney offers so many discounts for having the AP.

Pat-n-Eil
06-18-2007, 12:48 PM
"Familiarity breeds contempt" ~St. Augustine


I will become an APer for the first time next week. Sometime on the day, one week from Thusday because I know I'll make it to the park at least once more in the next 365 days. I'm hoping to make a third or fourth trip if possible, but being from Northern California, it is tougher for me to get down there than the locals.

That being said, there does seem to be quite a bit of reporting here regarding an entitlement attitude displayed by some annual passholders. They become so familiar with the park that they begin to see flaws that they feel need to be addressed. The more you know something, the more you see its faults.

I do believe this is a common trait in human nature.

The key is to recognize it and self edit or self correct this attitude. Most Cast Members do the best they can. From custodial to attractions, they are making wages that, unto themselves, would be poverty level in Orange County while trying to cater to and satisfy folks who have the disposable income to buy annual passes and visit the park often. This juxtoposition of classes combined with the subserviant nature of a worker in service to the customers makes for an interesting dynamic.

There is no way that you can make any blanket statement that covers the attitude of "APers" (or CMs for that matter) but there is most assuredly a subset of APers that claim a certain ownership of the park. They paid good money for this pass and by God they are going to see that the park is up to their standards. Call it an attitude of entitlement or perhaps arrogance in ownership.

I, for one, will try to be the kind of APer that gives the CMs a good story to tell to their friends and family at the end of the day, and not the opposite.

Tinkermommy
06-18-2007, 02:21 PM
Why do AP’s think they are special or deserve “specials/special treatmeant”.

once I’ve gone to the park 4/5 times I see it that I am now a liability to Disney. They potentially are losing money every time I enter the park.

I may be in the minority, but I think that the first statement is a very unfair generalization. Someone recently posted here that there are something like 600,000 annual passholders. Within that big a group (or even smaller), you're bound to have SOME people who feel a sense of entitlement -- just as I'm sure you have some non-AP holders who feel their wants and needs should receive a higher priority than those of AP holders because it's perceived AP holders can go any time. (There was also a post in the not-too-distant past in which it was suggested that the children of non-AP holders should receive first priority at the Jedi Training Academy because AP holders' children could do it anytime.)

There are always going to be PEOPLE who feel a sense of entitlement and demand special treatment. Some of them will have APs, some will not, and a huge proportion of them won't have any connection to Disneyland at all.

I've encountered some rude CMs over the years, but it would never prompt me generalize that all CMs are jerks.

With regard to the second statement quoted above, I disagree except for the word "potentially." Sure, they could "potentially" lose money on me, but they don't. I eat a meal nearly every time I go, feed my child there, buy drinks, pickles and other snacks. I wish I could tell you how much I've spent at the Disney Resort on clothing, toys, books, collectables and other items. And that's not taking into consideration the effect my frequent exposure to Disneyland has had on the success of the overall Disney branding in my household. We all wear Disney clothes, our house has Disney household items, my daughter sleeps on Disney sheets, and our DVD and CD cabinets are filled with Disney movies and music. I cut her sandwich bread with a Mickey shaped cookie cutter, and make Mickey waffles.

I suspect many AP holders are devoted fans of Disney who are good, kind people who simply enjoy their time in the parks, and who recognize they are fortunate to get to have a pass to the Happiest Place on Earth -- and that many of them spend a ton of money while they are there.

cstephens
06-18-2007, 02:54 PM
Why do AP’s think they are special or deserve “specials/special treatmeant”.

Isn't this kind of like asking someone when they stopped beating their wife? It starts a discussion from a point of view that's assumed but not necessarily correct. Like any other group of people, there will be some who display behaviour that others in the group neither agree with nor condone.


Maybe its because I’m a small business owner but once I’ve gone to the park 4/5 times I see it that I am now a liability to Disney. They potentially are losing money every time I enter the park. Technically I take the place of a full paying out of towner.


I completely disagree with the point about taking the place of a full-paying out of towner. Unless the fire marshall has come in to close the gates, no one is prevented from entering because an AP is in the park.

To me, it's at the base level a business arrangement. Disney has offered to sell particular benefits for a particular price, so since I've paid that price, I don't see why I should feel guilty about enjoying the benefits I've paid for. If Disney was really losing money on APs, I would think they'd have better sense than to constantly push the sale of APs. I am neither proud nor ashamed to have an AP. I feel fortunate that I have the means to afford one, but I don't feel guilty about that either. I've worked hard to get where I am.

And I've never owned a business, so maybe it's just something I'm not getting, but I don't really see how being a business-owner has anything to do with how one views the AP relationship. If you offered your customers a particular perq, would you look at them askance if they actually used it? I would think that wouldn't be very good business.

jeffthechef
06-18-2007, 03:14 PM
I certainly do not expect any sort of special treatment by DL castmembers or management. Though I have spent a fortune at the resort this year, we have received what we have paid for- quality vacation time, good food (most of the time), and quality merchandise. I do not take the resort for granted, and we have not felt that we have been taken advantage of by anyone. The AP has been a win-win situation for us and the vendors.

AVP
06-18-2007, 05:34 PM
I wonder if some of the "sense of entitlement" is rather a sense of "that's not how it's supposed to be done." Certainly an AP who visits the park frequently is going to be more familiar with certain policies than a day guest, and where a day guest would just accept what they are told and move on, an AP is more likely to push the issue.

Case in point: I was at Cafe Orleans with some friends, and when it came time to pay the check, the person paying the bill presented their AP for the discount. The CM asked to see the APs of the entire party, because he said he could only apply the discount to the entrees of those who had APs. Now, that is not the policy - the AP discount is good for the entire check. (In fact, I don't even know the registers CAN apply a line-item discount instead of a total-check discount...) We questioned his request, he had to go get a manager, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm sure that CM added another "damn APs" story to his collection, but the issue wasn't that we were APs, it was that we knew the policy better than he did. When you have a group (albeit a small group) of consumers who spend more time at your business than do many of your employees, things like this are going to happen.

AVP

jenpace
06-18-2007, 06:27 PM
Why do AP’s think they are special or deserve “specials/special treatmeant”.

Wow, that's kinda harsh :confused: Speaking for myself and my family I know that statement doesn't apply and I've never experienced any AP holders behaving badly at DL or anywhere else.

SANDYMARIE
06-18-2007, 06:47 PM
WOW! This is all very interesting. This is the first time ever that we have purchased AP's. The ONLY reason we got them was I thought it would be a great excuse to go back again next year.

Maybe I should be brushing up on AP info! This is all new to me.

TTFN

mariezp
06-18-2007, 07:36 PM
Perhaps if the opening statement had been worded a bit differently it might not have sounded so offensive to APers that do not feel the sense of entitlement. I know I have been in the park and seen many people that seem to forget the park is there for every paying customer. I feel pretty sure many of them were not APers yet they seem to feel like they are more important than the majority of people around them.

I am an APer. I wish I were able to drop by the park on a regular basis but Texas is a bit far. However, I am happy to be there twice a year for 10 days each time so I am grateful that it saves me a few dollars on addmission, food discounts and merchandise discounts.

MermaidHair
06-18-2007, 07:50 PM
I am not an APer :crying: but I just wanted to give AVP props because I think her post was a very valid point and very well could be the key to the "entitlement" issue.

JohnGar
06-18-2007, 08:29 PM
The APers that give APers a bad name are NOT posting on MousePad or even reading MousePlanet. If they were, they wouldn't be doing what ever is they are doing.

"No thanks; I don't need a handstamp."

houseofmouse
06-18-2007, 08:32 PM
How do I look at my Ap? Sadly:crying: with tears :crying: because it just expired last week and we are not renewing right now. :crying:
Seriously, I never expected any special treatment and never acted different, I felt lucky to have one and be able to travel there enough times to make it worth it. Boy will I miss it. :crying::)

MadasaHatter
06-18-2007, 10:51 PM
Wow,

Poor DAWNID asked a question and forgot to put a question mark at the end. And the question asked was WHY (key word here is why) do some people feel a sense of entitlement being an APer? It wasn't a statement at all....just a simple lil' question. But I am 99.9% sure that DAWNID was just really asking a rhetorical question. If you all would have read the whole post it was simply some observations and musings on the fact that some people are rude and then the REAL question was HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT YOUR ANNUAL PASSPORT.

So to answer the question posed before me....

It is funny DAWNID but I too FEEL like I get into Disnelyand free after the 4th or 5th visit. Just something silly I suppose but it makes me feel better about spending the big bucks on it and if I DO VISIT the park that many times I DO save money. I have said this on here before. I have never dealt with a rude CM but I am friendly and nice and therefore people are friendly and nice to me. I have seen LOADS of rude guests at Disneyland but I have NOOOO idea whether they held APs or not. Also for me my FAVORITE thing Disney is definitely DISNEYLAND PARK. I do enjoy the movies but the PARK is key for me out of all things DISNEY. I always liked the WARNER BROS. cartoons better. I think Disney should start making MICKEY/ DONALD/ GOOFY cartoons again and put them before the movies. (I am so sick of previews) You know angry Donald on his cell phone to modernize them....and here I go....ruining the theme of the thread....oh well....I am MAD!

Gutz
06-19-2007, 01:30 AM
No way do I feel that I'm getting into Disneyland free because of my frequent visits to the park. If I didn't have an AP, there's no way I would go as often as I do. So, seeing that I spend money there every time I go, even with the discounts, I think Disney is quite happy for me to keep coming back over and over again without paying admission.
To answer the question, no I don't feel I deserve any special treatment because I'm an AP holder (it's not like it's an exclusive club), but I can see some people thinking otherwise. I'm just happy that it is made available because it's such a great value for me and when I go with non-AP holders, they appreciate the discounts you can get for them.

Another Dimension
06-19-2007, 04:49 AM
"Familiarity breeds contempt" ~St. Augustine

If I did the exact same things every visit... and/or ...I posted on any of the Mickey Militant boards.. I'd probably feel different than I do about DL, DCA and my visits. I have no contempt for DL or how it or DCA look or are run 99% of the time.

And I don't do either of the above ... and I have fun everytime I go ... to either park.

Whether some people on the Internet want to accept that fact or not.

And that's the way it is...

:cool:

gtpinoy
06-19-2007, 07:00 AM
I've been a PAP holder for awhile now and I've always had a feeling of being part of Disneyland. I almost feel a responsibility of taking care of the place. If I see a piece of trash, I'll pick it up. If I see a non-working part of an attraction, I'll let a CM know. If I see a CM do a good job, I'll let Guest Relations know. I've 'invested' in my 'home' and I want to keep it up so that I can enjoy it for years to come.

cstephens
06-19-2007, 08:13 AM
Poor DAWNID asked a question and forgot to put a question mark at the end. And the question asked was WHY (key word here is why) do some people feel a sense of entitlement being an APer?

No, actually, it's not a matter of punctuation. As I said before, it's a matter of asking a question based on a premise that isn't true. And no, actually, that was not the question asked. If the original post had included the word "some" (which is really the key word, not "why"), it might not have been so bad. But omitting the word "some" makes a huge difference.

But thanks for telling us we didn't read the post when you misread the question yourself.

Mrs Mouse
06-19-2007, 09:06 AM
I've been a PAP holder for awhile now and I've always had a feeling of being part of Disneyland. I almost feel a responsibility of taking care of the place. If I see a piece of trash, I'll pick it up. If I see a non-working part of an attraction, I'll let a CM know. If I see a CM do a good job, I'll let Guest Relations know. I've 'invested' in my 'home' and I want to keep it up so that I can enjoy it for years to come.

I, unfortunately, do not have an AP as we live in Canada and tend to only visit once per year (I'm thankful it's that often!). Despite the fact that I am not an AP holder, this is still my attitude whenever I visit the park. I couldn't agree with you more, gtpinoy. Disneyland is like a home to many of us and we should be invested in its upkeep - regardless of how often we visit and how much we have spent on our passes.

shna
06-19-2007, 11:05 AM
I think the simple explanation is that some people are just jerks who aren't happy unless they're complaining about something. It's a shame for many reasons -- one of which being that it takes away from the perceived validity of a legitimate complaint like the one AVP mentioned. The whole "the boy who cried 'wolf'" thing, I guess.

I'm happy to have my AP simply because it gives me an excuse to go to DLR as often as possible. I'm hoping to do an evening in the near future (but likely not until August) when I go to an Angels game & then pop into the parks for just a few minutes afterwards -- just to really take advantage of the pass. It's just fun!

I would NEVER intentionally be rude to a CM or to any other guests. Anyone in the park (unless they climbed a fence or something) has just as much right to be there as I do -- and the CMs certainly deserve to be treated with kindness and respect.

charpaul
06-19-2007, 11:27 AM
I have had an AP for 5 years now. I know that is not as long as some, but it is longer than others. In those five years, I have seen AP's who seem to think that Disneyland "belongs" to them because they have an AP. They are sometimes downright rude to other guests and CM's.

I personally try to remember that I TOO am a guest (for the first time or for the hundreth time) and I should be able to enjoy myself at the park. BUT never at the expense of stepping on someone else's experience.

For example:
I do NOT recite the words to the HM (even though I know them by heart) because there are other guests in the elevator with me who might be trying to experience it for the first time.
I do NOT kill the punchline of all the Jungle Cruise jokes simply because I have heard it before.

I DO try to be helpful when I can to other guests who may not know something or where someplace is..
I DO try to say "thank you" to the CM's when they are doing a good job!
I DO sing in the Tiki room and during the fireworks - but not so loud that everyone around me can hear it...
I DO fill out a compliment form at CityHall when I find an exceptional job being done by a CM.
I DO use what I know about Disneyland to maximize my enjoyment of my day there...

And I always try to remember that as an AP I am getting to visit my favorite place as often as I can - while that family of four might be having their once a year or only trip to Disneyland and THEY also should be able to enjoy the day end experience the MAGIC!!

Like I said at the start of my post - I HAVE seen some AP's who act like the park is their personal playground and seem to resent all of the "other" people for being in their way...
Life is too short - Disney is too much fun - and having an AP only means I have a ticket to visit as often as I can.
That is how I see it...

yohomama212
06-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Does dancing with Mickey during Fantasmic! fall under the "reciting the HM spiel" or "singing with the Tiki Room" catergory? LOL! Just trying to figure out how to not be an obnoxious APer!

Elizabeth

dawnid
06-19-2007, 11:38 AM
I want to thank MadasaHatter for “getting” what I meant to say….I should have put a question mark but cstephans is also correct I should have qualified the question with “some APers” . I guess I left the some off because I wouldn’t include myself, I know everyone isn’t a cookie cutter clone and I’m sure this type of attitude is probably closer to 1% than 99% of the AP’s. But too often in life the few spoil things for the many.

Also the “liability” I meant was an accounting liability. Its like your HMO if you pay for the program and never show up for service the program makes more money because they don’t have to spend any of their profit providing a service to you. If Disney sells a pass and you never use it they could make MORE money because you aren’t affecting their attendance/staffing expenses. I know Disney isn’t losing money on APers but depending upon your spending practices they could potentially make more on someone who never goes back after the initial trip. Knowing Disney’s penchant for reports and paper work I’m sure they’ve penciled the figures out and know one needs to feel bad about using their pass as often as possible.

In my defense I had just read a posting on another board that had an APer complaining about what Disney wasn’t GIVING them and I started thinking about the most recent story my son had told me about an APer throwing food at a CM while proclaiming he was an ANNUAL PASSHOLDER and he wasn’t happy. The two incidents just got me thinking and I thought I’d throw out the topic for comment.

I’m sorry if my musings offended any, being a PAP myself it wasn’t meant as an insult against us