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coronamouseman
06-12-2002, 08:25 AM
If David Koenig's information about some Disney staffer pointing out that on some days 70% of park attendance is APs, what does that say about attendance figures (and ultimately revenues) for DLR?

Every visit after essentially the 2nd one to either park (average price paid for 1st two park visits will be $49.50 each for SoCal AP) will be free - that means that overall attendance for DLR would be significantly affected in terms of average revenue per guest.

At least with sports teams, who go by tickets sold, they are accurately counting the revenue - but if you have customers coming into the park essentially for free (compared to day guests paying some $40+ per person on average) then you will have some very interesting numbers to manipulate to get accurate accounting ........

Disney Nick
06-12-2002, 08:29 AM
Keep in mind that 70% is an estimate and that is only for the slowest days. Like Tuesdays in Mid-January. APs are a great way for Disney to fill in those slower periods with some people, another reason they created black-out dates. If Disney didn't offer So-Cal and Deluxe APs their off-season attendance would be severely lowered. But on, say, July 4th (which stupidly enough I'm going on with some family) the park is much more filled with full-price paying guests. Basically APs are used by Disney to fill in slower periods and keep attendance decent, as well as to get some bodies into DCA ;).

Ghoulish Delight
06-12-2002, 09:03 AM
Merchandising, merchandising, merchandising. And food.

Remember, while those APers walk through the gate for "free," they don't eat for free, they don't buy pins for free, they don't get their Splash Mountain pictures for free. Many many APers are big spenders, so letting us into the park is win win for them. It makes good numbers to publish, and they get good revenue from ansilary sales. Of course, not all of us APers are like that, but when you have half of them spending $100+ every time they enter the park, they can handle a few just showing up and not buying anything.

HBTiggerFan
06-12-2002, 09:40 AM
Before I had my AP I went less often and didn't spend as much on souviners since I was paying for my ticket. But I did spend more than I spend now (buying plush, 2 meals, snacks, misc...) since the tix were cheaper back when I was a teen. ($20)

Now that I have my AP I spend less $$ more often, so it averages out that I have spent more in the long run....

who is lost??

marron-cream
06-12-2002, 10:19 AM
Personally, I don't have a problem with APs anymore, now that I refuse to wear a lanyard. My only beef is with those who have trouble understanding that the only AP with a merchandise discount is the Premium AP. How hard is it to get? If your pass says premium, you have a discount. If not, then NO. Quit trying to cheat it out of me. And don't get angry at me because I'm not going to risk my job to give it to you.

The end! :p

coronamouseman
06-12-2002, 11:21 AM
Well, I think most all of us came to the conclusion that having the APs in the park to spend money on things like souveniors and food was a good thing, but the idea that up to 70% of park attendance (even in the offseason) seems pretty high - just from an economic standpoint one would think that Disney might be then justified to close the park one or even two days a week during the offseason - the benefits would be improved maintenance conditions and probably lower maintenance costs for the park not to mention the fewer employee hours ............

It just seems that if AP attendance is greater than 50% on any day Disney is not going to be making a lot of money those days ...........

justagrrl
06-12-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Merchandising, merchandising, merchandising. And food.

Remember, while those APers walk through the gate for "free," they don't eat for free, they don't buy pins for free, they don't get their Splash Mountain pictures for free. Many many APers are big spenders, so letting us into the park is win win for them. It makes good numbers to publish, and they get good revenue from ansilary sales. Of course, not all of us APers are like that, but when you have half of them spending $100+ every time they enter the park, they can handle a few just showing up and not buying anything.

I think that often enough some AP'ers don't even ride rides while they are there....I know there are times that we've come just for some drinks or something to eat and to watch a band play.

innerSpaceman
06-12-2002, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by justagrrl
I think that often enough some AP'ers don't even ride rides while they are there....I know there are times that we've come just for some drinks or something to eat and to watch a band play.
Exactly. Many times I will not ride a single ride, and will stay out of all crowded areas. Therefore, my "free" attendance does not interfere one bit with the enjoyment of other guests (I'm not taking up a place in line, nor a place waiting for Fantasmic) and so even if I just buy a coke or some fries, Disney is up a few bucks. More than likely, I will have at least one very overpriced meal and Disney will make a tiny bit of profit that they wouldn't have otherwise.

Not Afraid
06-12-2002, 12:01 PM
My husband and I joke that we will be on Michael Eisner's Christmas list this year thanking us for paying his salary. Where, that is just a bit extreme, we do spend a large part of our entertainment budget at DL and on Disney products. We do that because we are APs, DL is a primary entertainment source, and, therefore, Disney is in the forefront of our minds. That is excellent marketing, IMHO.

Now if CMs want to be rude giving me a bad experience at DL, I can take my entertainment dollars elsewhere. It would behoove any employee in any customer centered business to remember why they have a job in the first place.

RStar
06-12-2002, 12:06 PM
Same here. My wife and I go sometimes just to get out. We don't ride rides, just get something to eat, shop around, ect.

The part of Kevin's article that bothers me is that the majority of CMs hate the APs. I knew that was some what of an issue, but I had no idea it was that strong! I have not ever come across an incedint where I was misstreated as a passholder, but then I don't flaunt it arond the park either (and now I will hide the fact!). The only CMs that see it are at the gate, registers, and fasspass. And by the way, on my birthday a nice CM told me "Happy birthday!" as I went in at the gate. "How did you know?" I asked. "It told me on the screen when I scaned your card" she told me. Does this sound like agressive behavior toward the APers? I do belive they are trying.:)

smd4
06-12-2002, 12:29 PM
I'm sure not all CM's begrudge AP's, but i know a lot of them do.

The term I've heard used by them is "Anal Passholder."

You gotta remember--most of the folks who work at DL do just that--they work there. It's their job. How many of you out there just love your job? Just love geting up early, putting in your eight hours, and going home dog tired?

Any of you who have worked in retail know that dealing with the public can be one of the most demanding, stress-filled jobs one can do. Customers, guests, whatever--are frequently annoying and rude, believing the "customer is always right," even though sometime the customer is WRONG. But you still have to put on the smile and kiss ***.

When you have AP's who often believe that they are special, and deserving of special treatment, you get a lot of supressed animosity by the CM's. No, they're not going to tell you to go to hell in public. But they will smile, while at the same time they certainly won't go out of their way to be helpful, and they'll basically "put up" with you untill they can go on break and tell all their fellow CM's about all the jerks they have to deal with, for what amounts to crappy pay at best.

[Moderator's note: Inappropriate word removed. Please do not circumvent the vB code checker by substituting similar-looking letters. -- Lani]

PhilMP
06-12-2002, 12:41 PM
I thought the more popular term among CMs for the AP was "Annual *******."

If anybody goes to the Inn Between or other on-duty CM break area, you will hear one of three things. 1) How busy/slow it is, 2) How stupid the Guests are sometimes, and 3) An AP a CM had to put up with.

Now I don't mind a regular AP who comes along and makes some nice conversation, then buys his/her churro or whatnot and goes away. However, it's the ones who wear their APs on their lanyard like it's some sort of VIP badge and flash it to me, expecting a discount when they know darn well that ODV carts don't give discounts to anybody, even other CMs.

And then there are the APs who walk around and criticize people because their smiles aren't "genuine" enough, and threaten to report them to city hall if they didn't improve.

My point is, no matter what sort of action management does to increase appreciation of APs by the hourlies, it's not going to happen. Your small majority of overbearing, demanding, and crazy APs will simply nullify any ground made in improving our opinions toward you.

Phil

[Moderator's note: Inappropriate word with partial circumventing replaced with *** characters for the entire word. -- Lani]

zedizdead
06-12-2002, 12:42 PM
My wife and I are first time AP's this year and we love it. But I did notice that we are buying stuff and eating there more then we did when we didn't have AP's.

For example we went a few weeks ago and we ate at the blue bayou. (I wanted to try one of those Monty Criscos I keep hearing about) In the 15 or so years I've been going, I had NEVER eaten there. Mostly because I didn't feel like waiting, but also because of the high prices there. Since we got in for free, the prices didn't seem to bug me as much.

We also bought a few of those posters on sale at the Gallery. Something that we would NEVER do if we paid an admission.

In the story I know what kind of ap's the CM's hate. They stick out like a sore thumb.

Thankfully we are not like that and CM's always treat us good. In fact I always forget that I HAVE an AP and forget about the discounts.

The way I look at it, we are not the ONLY people in the park who have an AP. We are a dime a dozen. And therefore we don't need to be treated any differently than any other guest.

Techie7
06-12-2002, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by smd4
How many of you out there just love your job? Just love geting up early, putting in your eight hours, and going home dog tired?

Just wanted to say that I for one have loved all of my jobs. Had I not enjoyed them I would have quit or looked for another job and then quit. Every job has its ups and its downs along with people who can be difficult. It is dealing with it and not letting it get to you that is key. Some people like to make conflict so they can get bent out of shape over it or gain attention (this goes both ways). I just wanted to say that I feel sorry for anyone who does not like their job.

RStar
06-12-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by PhilMP
I thought the more popular term among CMs for the AP was "Annual *******."

If anybody goes to the Inn Between or other on-duty CM break area, you will hear one of three things. 1) How busy/slow it is, 2) How stupid the Guests are sometimes, and 3) An AP a CM had to put up with.

Now I don't mind a regular AP who comes along and makes some nice conversation, then buys his/her churro or whatnot and goes away. However, it's the ones who wear their APs on their lanyard like it's some sort of VIP badge and flash it to me, expecting a discount when they know darn well that ODV carts don't give discounts to anybody, even other CMs.

And then there are the APs who walk around and criticize people because their smiles aren't "genuine" enough, and threaten to report them to city hall if they didn't improve.

My point is, no matter what sort of action management does to increase appreciation of APs by the hourlies, it's not going to happen. Your small majority of overbearing, demanding, and crazy APs will simply nullify any ground made in improving our opinions toward you.

Phil Phil,

Just wondering, but how do the CMs know that these people are Aps? If they brag about it then that tells you something about them. I rarely mention, if ever, that I'm an AP. No need to, I know it doesn't make me special. I try to be helpfull when I'm there, I know Cms are hard at work and can have a rough day. I may have even had a pleasant conversation with you and you would have never known I was an AP. I just hope the "Annual ********" don't out number the rest of us that are there to have a good time like the Day Guests.

And if it helps at all, I am ashamed of the actions of the AHPassers, and would like to appoligize on the behalf of all APs that feel the same as I do.

And thank the CMs for their hard work.


[Moderator's note: Inappropriate wording with partial circumventing replaced with *** characters for the entire word. -- Lani]

SzczerbiakManiac
06-12-2002, 01:39 PM
The term I've heard is "P********" (but "spelled" a little differently).

I got my first AP last October. While I've been less than 20 times since then, I've never perceived any animosity from a CM. In fact, quite the opposite. Most of the CMs at the gates welcome me by name (because they're reading it, not because they know me) and when I hand them my pass for a food/merch discount, they've always been polite.

But then again, I knew of the p******* phenomena years ago (from long-time friend & MPer "Kuzcotopia") and was bound and determined not to become one.

I'm curious, of the alleged 70% who are APers, I wonder what percentage of them are giving the rest of us (in the majority) a bad name...?


A note to the moderators, let me apologize in advance if my altered spelling crossed the boundaries of appropriateness. I wasn't sure how to communicate that word and stay within the bounds of acceptance.

[Moderator's note: Apologizing for something doesn't make it permissible. Inappropriate word taken out. Don't try to circumvent the moderators or the community policies. -- Lani]

innerSpaceman
06-12-2002, 01:50 PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the carnies hate the rubes. So what? It's been the same since the dawn of time. The folks who work backstage and onstage at every entertainment venue in the history of earth have had a derogatory nickname or two for the paying customers, and paint nearly all the customers with the same wide brush that is a reaction to the tiny percentage of actual troublesome customers.

You'd think they'd all wise up and realize on which side their bread is buttered, but human nature is human nature, show folk are show folk, low-paid workers are apt to be resentful, and the sun rises in the east.

Uncle Dick
06-12-2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by RStar
Just wondering, but how do the CMs know that these people are Aps?
1) They carry their APs in their hands or around their necks in little lanyard thingys. 2) You see them visiting the park every single week. It's not that hard to pick em out.

Lani
06-12-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by justagrrl
I think that often enough some AP'ers don't even ride rides while they are there....I know there are times that we've come just for some drinks or something to eat and to watch a band play. Oh that would be us... and the amazing part about it is that we do this "commuting" from the SF Bay Area!!

Lani
06-12-2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by RStar
The part of Kevin's article that bothers me is that the majority of CMs hate the APs.Just a minor quibble here RStar, but I wanted to make sure you gave credit to the right person. You are referring to David Koenig, not Kevin Yee or Kevin Krock.

Lani
06-12-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by smd4
How many of you out there just love your job?Me. I wouldn't trade it for all the marshmallows in the world. :D

Ghoulish Delight
06-12-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by lani
Me. I wouldn't trade it for all the marshmallows in the world. :D Dang, that's quite a lot of marshmallows!!

Well, I like my job very much right now. I've also had a job or two that I did not like as much. But I never took it out on other people, or ignored company policy simply because I didn't like my job. I either dealt with it, or, if it got too bad, left. You can complain to managers, you can be unhappy, but there's never an excuse to take your frustration out on people who have nothing to do with your problem.

mad4mky
06-12-2002, 02:13 PM
Gosh, we just got our first AP's back in December. I have only used them once more (in April) with just hubby and I.

We met up with the Sunday Brunch group...and went in to buy our breakfast...I asked, the nice CM ringing up the breakfast's if we could get the AP discount there...I told him I didn't really know as we had never used our AP's before...being new to this "world of AP's". Gosh, he couldn't have been nicer. Welcoming and Congratulating us on becoming AP'ers.
I thought wow...how nice of him. That was one of the reason we bought DL ones and not Paramount's Great America ones (and that park is only 20 minutes from our home, vs and 7 hour drive).
Now I find out he actually despises me behind me back? :confused: I am heartbroken.:(
Actually...I could see how CM's could learn to dislike the more pompous AP'er's. I, have ran across many...
But for the few of us, who are kind, gentle and not so frequent visitors to the park...it's too bad that we have to be bunched up with the bad apple group. :rolleyes:

Perhaps they should have a disclaimer for AP'ers that says "Leave your bad attitudes and pompous personalities at the gate".;). Course, that might offend us kinder folk.

Not Afraid
06-12-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Uncle Dick

1) They carry their APs in their hands or around their necks in little lanyard thingys. 2) You see them visiting the park every single week. It's not that hard to pick em out.

OK, I don't carry my AP around my neck (barf) but I do go the the park regularly enough that I am recognized. (Being 5'10" with red hair has NOTHING to do with it!) CMs who see me regularly know I'm not the kind of fool that would pay $43 for each visit. therefore, they know I am an AP.

As far as being treated rudely by a CM because I am an AP, I have only personally experienced this once. This particular CM lead has a read bad attitude about APs. I tend to avoid her location when she is there, or just smile and wave. Poor girl, it must take a lot of effort to keep the bad attutude up. Everyone else is wonderful. I have had a lot of good experiences with CMs and some have even become friends away from DL.

EandCDad
06-12-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Uncle Dick

1) They carry their APs in their hands or around their necks in little lanyard thingys. 2) You see them visiting the park every single week. It's not that hard to pick em out.

Actually, I carry my AP around in a little thing called a "wallet."

Generally when I see people with lanyards that appear to have passes in them, the passes are paper (not plastic cards) and they have "tourist" practically stamped on the foreheads. They must get them as part of their tour package. I'm not disputing Uncle Dicks' observations, but just because you see a person with laynard that has a ticket in it, you can't assume they are an AP.