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wonderful
06-10-2002, 09:50 PM
Coming off another thread about alleged CM behavior during Fantasmic! (and I only say alleged because everyone deserves a benefit of a doubt) I read a post from another member mentioning that it should be brought to City Hall...
Here's my thought on that. The situation was that "off duty" CMs and some APs were in the crowd talking about the show, in particular the CMs were talking about who's playing who of the characters. The poster suggested it should be mentioned at City Hall, but I have to ask WHY?
First, I believe the actions were in bad taste and I doubt I would ruin magic like that myself, but that's me... That's a CM who loves Disneyland and Walt and even DCA. There are many, many CMs just like me... and there are many, many NOT like me. There are many CMs there doing their job, doing it well, but once they are off that is where their magic ends. As much as I love the mouse, I love the rights we are entitled to as Americans more and I say if anyone thinks they have the right to tell folks what they can or cannot talk about in their free time, they are wrong.
Granted, CMs are told that keeping the magic alive is important, but, unless they are on the clock, they really can't be required to do so.
So back to the City Hall thing. What will that accomplish? As if City Hall wasn't busy enough, now they have to field the comments of guests who "suppose" they heard Cast Members. If the CM wasn't on the clock, City Hall can do very little about the CM and really can't offer much to a guest except a "wow... I am really sorry." And that is never enough for any guest.
So what would my suggestion be? Get a flippin backbone in the park and stand up for yourself for heaven's sake! Politely ask these guests to quiet down or inform them that you have brought guests for the first time and you would really like them to get a good experience. People, in general, are good. CMs, in general, are FANTASTIC... I'm sure, if the guest had made a comment like that the off duty CMs would've changed their tune and the APs would have stareted pointing out things not to miss.
You want to solve a problem not only in Disneyland, but anywhere? Start by asking yourself what YOU can do first... if you really can't do anything, THEN go to City Hall (or wherever)...
Just for example, here are some things that you'd be better off handling on your own at Disneyland:
1. A guest "cut" in line--- Um, tell them to move.
2. there are these loud teenagers over there--- ask them to quiet down, or move yourself, there's no "noise ordinance" at DL
3. I heard that October 1st was "gay day" and I don't agree with... -- Come on another day
It's amazing what folks can accomplish by just taking some responsibility for themselves.

FantasmicFan82
06-11-2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by wonderful
Just for example, here are some things that you'd be better off handling on your own at Disneyland:
1. A guest "cut" in line--- Um, tell them to move.
2. there are these loud teenagers over there--- ask them to quiet down, or move yourself, there's no "noise ordinance" at DL
3. I heard that October 1st was "gay day" and I don't agree with... -- Come on another day
It's amazing what folks can accomplish by just taking some responsibility for themselves.

that's like going to City Hall on a Grad-Nite and complaing about the people Smoking *cough* in line.

Ghoulish Delight
06-11-2002, 07:26 AM
I disagree that CMs, when off the clock and in the park, have the same "rights" as guests. Especially if they go around announcing that they are CMs, and then do things specifically forbidden for them to do. On the clock or not, they are representatives of their company, and their company has a right to know if they are behaving in a manner which does not represent them well. That goes for any company, not just Disney. If I go around in my spare time to my company's customers telling them company secrets, or convincing them that our product sucks, or whatever, my company would have every right to fire me, even though I was off the clock.

The specific incident in question, CMs bragging that they are CMs, and then talking about what CMs are "playing" what role in Fantasmic within earshot of guests, is, imho, inexcuseable. It is something specifically told to them they should NEVER do, in or out of costume. Disney has a right to employ people who share in their desire to maintain the fantasy atmosphere in the park. And they have a right to know if any of their employees are not participating in company policy, on the clock or otherwise.

My two cents.

adriennek
06-11-2002, 08:09 AM
I don't think that anyone's defending the CM's actions, but I've picked up a few things about leaving comments at City Hall and I can see "wonderful's" point.

If you walked into City Hall and said, "Some people standing around at Fantasmic were being disruptive and rude and they were CMs off the clock." what do you expect Disney to be able to do about it? They're not going to be able to track down those specific CMs. Even if you knew their first names, it probably wouldn't help.

If you want to give a comment to City Hall that they're going to be able to use, you need to be very specific. When I've left comments (usually, but not always, compliments) for CMs at City Hall, I gave the name on the name badge, the location of the CM, described what he/she was doing (cashier, helping people onto an attraction, sweeper, helping people find seats for a show, etc,) the time of the incident, etc, so that they can track down exactly which CM named Mike, (or Jennifer or Kevin) I'm talking about.

Without knowing the exact specifics, what would you expect Disneyland to do? And if they can't do anything specific, what's the point in the complaint?

Adrienne K

Ghoulish Delight
06-11-2002, 08:44 AM
Okay, you're probably right that going to City Hall isn't a particularly effective action. I guess it was just my knee-jerk reaction to a story of CMs acting like that. I guess the only thing that would be in order would be, if I were to observer something like this on a regular basis, to write letters in hopes of bringing the problem to the attention of casting and hope they do something to reiterate the importance of "keeping the magic." But even then, it would have to be something I had observed on numerous occasions, not just once or twice.

I still stand by my position, however, that CMs SHOULD be held accountable for their demeanor, even when off duty and not in costume. If they are observed (and somehow identified) acting in a manner innapropriate for a CM, even while out of costume, Disney has every right to take discipline them, especially if they are letting everyone around them KNOW they are CMs. It's true in any company, but espeically one that usually (at least used to) puts big emphasis on having employess who are in line with the company's image.

Rallymonkey23
06-11-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
I disagree that CMs, when off the clock and in the park, have the same "rights" as guests. Especially if they go around announcing that they are CMs, and then do things specifically forbidden for them to do. On the clock or not, they are representatives of their company, and their company has a right to know if they are behaving in a manner which does not represent them well. That goes for any company, not just Disney. If I go around in my spare time to my company's customers telling them company secrets, or convincing them that our product sucks, or whatever, my company would have every right to fire me, even though I was off the clock.

The specific incident in question, CMs bragging that they are CMs, and then talking about what CMs are "playing" what role in Fantasmic within earshot of guests, is, imho, inexcuseable. It is something specifically told to them they should NEVER do, in or out of costume. Disney has a right to employ people who share in their desire to maintain the fantasy atmosphere in the park. And they have a right to know if any of their employees are not participating in company policy, on the clock or otherwise.

My two cents.

You took the words right out of my mouth. :)

cstephens
06-11-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
I still stand by my position, however, that CMs SHOULD be held accountable for their demeanor, even when off duty and not in costume.

If they are announcing that they're CMs and announcing some way of being able to track them down, then maybe I'd agree with you. If they're just behaving like regular customers, albeit bad and rude customers, then I'd have to disagree, unless there is something in their employment rules that governs their behaviour while off duty. Unless they're doing something dangerous or illegal on their own time, I don't see how Disney has any right to dictate how an employee behaves while not on the clock.

Maybe it's different because it's on home turf? Would people feel the same way if it were Knott's CMs at Fantasmic or Disney CMs at another park's show?

Ghoulish Delight
06-11-2002, 12:14 PM
If I work at a store, and in my off time, I come in dressed in regular clothes, then go around giving people bad advice about what to buy, or I go around annoying customers, etc., even if I don't announce that I'm an employee, and my boss finds out, do they have the right to fire me? Darn right they do. When it relates to how the company does business, the company has every right to dictate how their employees behave, on the clock or not.

Of course, it's a bit difficult for Disney to pinpoint CMs who act like this, but I definitely feel that anyone CM who is known to be behaving in a manner that detracts from a guest's experience should be disciplined.

As for CMs from one park doing it at another, no. I don't think they would need to be disciplined. Of course, I would still think they are jerks, but that's another story and has nothing to do with their employment.

MammaSilva
06-11-2002, 12:21 PM
I have to agree with standing up for yourself, taking a bit of personal 'responsiblity' but I alway always have a camera on hand, and if in that situation ... luckily I have never been there and can count the negative exeriences at DL on one hand with a fingers to spare ... I would ask them to be more considerate of the other guests in the area, if that failed to achieve the appropriate response I would take a picture, write down what infomation I could then when I got the film developed (one hour would be my next stop)and take all of the information/photo to City Hall to file the complaint. I agree we all have the right of freedom of speach and I don't have to agree with you to defend your right to say it, but I also feel that when you sign an agreement of confidentality or standards of behavior in respect to your job you are honor bound to abide by that agreement.

I will say that I have no problems 'sticking' up for my group if other guests are out of line but I always try to do it in the most non agressive manner possible, something along the lines of excuse me but I really could use your help, would you mind???? 9 times out of 10 the people in question don't even realize they are doing something offensive in their excitement.. if that makes any sense?

adriennek
06-11-2002, 12:54 PM
GD: In a perfect world, *everyone* would take responsibility for their actions.

Mammasilva-- you reminded me of a story that I know will please GD to no end. :)

Some people I know, about 10 of them, once went to WDW together, without me. Not that I'm bitter or anything. (And for the record, I was invited but finances and a baby kept me from going.)

While there, they saw the MSEP and video recorded it on a digital camera. (Whatever the term is for recording digital video.) During the parade, some off-duty CMs were watching the parade and it was obvious that the performers in the parade recognized their colleagues in the audience. The off-duty CMs were a tad rude and the parade CMs were paying attention to them so much that they were ignoring the other guests on the parade route and holding conversations with their friends along the parade route.

My 10 friends (mentally counting-- that couple whose wedding I was in, the one whose wedding DocKrock was in, the one whose wedding we went to when I was expecting Spencer, the two who aren't married, Mr. Ham, and Mr. Video Guy, yes, 10 of them,) weren't too pleased to witness that, so they went to City Hall with the tape in hand and played it for the CMs in City Hall. They called in some managers who viewed the tape and recognized the people in the tape.

In that case, the managers were able to actually do something about the situation and hold the proper people accountable for their behavior.

Adrienne K

Ghoulish Delight
06-11-2002, 01:09 PM
:D :D :D
That is a good one! Ah, justice ;)

thamnarestan
06-11-2002, 04:51 PM
What's so terrible about talking about who is playing what character in a show? I think the guests understand that Mickey is played by a park employee and isn't actually a 5 foot mouse that stands on two legs and wears clothing. Don't take this Disney illusion thing too seriously.

Disney Nick
06-11-2002, 05:00 PM
What's so terrible about talking about who is playing what character in a show? I think the guests understand that Mickey is played by a park employee and isn't actually a 5 foot mouse that stands on two legs and wears clothing. Don't take this Disney illusion thing too seriously.
You are the kind of CM that totally has the wrong attitude at Disneyland. Your correct, guests understand that Mickey isn't real, but you forget about kids. To a little kid, THAT REALLY IS MICKEY. It's a big deal to parents and to their children. If you need further proof, just look at the 2 instances where people actually sued Disney for their kids seeing Mickey without his "head" on...

thamnarestan
06-11-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by NMoreles

You are the kind of CM that totally has the wrong attitude at Disneyland.

Well that attidude is shared by ~95% of cast members. We are not as nearly caught up in all this Disney crap as you APs are. There are some cast members who are, but they are ostracized as the "Disney geeks", and usually don't last long. Anyone remember the story of Wes, the Pirates Cast Member / Annual Passholder who applied 13 times to Disneyland, was finally hired when DCA opened, and then almost killed someone on the ride because of his own incompetency? These sort of people should not be working at Disneyland (especially in safety postions). Their place is enjoying the park as paying customers.

Disney Nick
06-11-2002, 05:18 PM
Well that attidude is shared by ~95% of cast members. We are not as nearly caught up in all this Disney crap as you APs are.
95%?? If that's true then Disneyland is in a sad state of affairs. That certainly hasn't been my experience with CMs. I'd say about half of them are really good at what they do and genuinely care. For the rest I don't think they are nearly as negative as you. You may really want to re-examine your employment at Disneyland. Why are you even working there? And why do you assume I'm an AP because I understand kids enjoy the Disney magic. I do agree with you that morons shouldn't be working in attractions, but I never said they should...

Mouse
06-11-2002, 05:19 PM
Thamnarestan, you're going to get a lot of grief from this one:

When was the last time you spent the entire movie thinking about the actors rather then the characters, or the author of a book you were reading and not the plot? In general, when people are viewing a fictional (or fantastical) production the point is for the individual to get lost (for lack of a better word) in the story, Disneyland more then anyplace else.

A hypothetically situation for you:

Someone has been planning a trip to Las Vegas for the last six months to see their favorite magician perform. At the show that this person is at some magician's assistant with a group of friends is not only being loud and distracting, but the assistant is giving away the secrets to how the tricks being preformed are being done. The vacationer knows the tricks preformed are not real, but the show is somehow less impressive when that person knows the secrets.

My point: Just because you know something is not real does not mean you can’t enjoy pretending it is.

Disney Nick
06-11-2002, 05:23 PM
Very well said Mouse. When we go watch Fantasmic it's a SHOW. I'm not there to talk about the actors.

SteveCJB2001
06-11-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
If I work at a store, and in my off time, I come in dressed in regular clothes, then go around giving people bad advice about what to buy, or I go around annoying customers, etc., even if I don't announce that I'm an employee, and my boss finds out, do they have the right to fire me? Darn right they do.

See I disagree but you know what does it matter since I'm and "annoying immature jerk". Personally I give people advice on what to get and what not to get when Im off the clock and it may be bad advice it may not. Just for clarification I do work at a video store so my taste in movies may differ from that of a different person but its not necessarily bad advice.

mousey_girl
06-11-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
What's so terrible about talking about who is playing what character in a show? I think the guests understand that Mickey is played by a park employee and isn't actually a 5 foot mouse that stands on two legs and wears clothing. Don't take this Disney illusion thing too seriously.

To a 3-7 yr old, Mickey IS real. He (and the other characters) rank right up there with Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

Life is hard enough, why can't a kid enjoy a bit of magic before they have to find that out?

Mouse
06-11-2002, 05:32 PM
nothing to see here

Disney Nick
06-11-2002, 05:37 PM
Why delete your post Mouse?

Mouse
06-11-2002, 06:15 PM
I'm making a conscious decision not to get too wrapped up on this topic. I have already said my two cents.

PhilMP
06-12-2002, 01:57 AM
You see, a child watching Fantasmic! or the Parade, or any show for that matter, isn't going to care if the group of CMs behind him/her are talking about who is playing what. The child is probably too enthralled in the show to listen, or won't understand what they're really talking about.

A regular day Guest, who doesn't watch Fantasmic! or a parade or a show very often will also be too interested in the show to listen, or will simply turn around and ask the group to be quiet, without taking the time to listen to what the off-duty CMs are talking about.

Therefore, the only person/people who will take the time to actually listen to what the group is talking about, analyze it, and then report the incident to City Hall is the holier-than-thou AP whose experience was "ruined" by a bunch of "annoying and immature" CMs who have no business working for Disneyland.

corrinhorn
06-12-2002, 12:39 PM
Anybody have change for a dollar? You do? Good! Thanks, now I can give you my two cents worth


Originally posted by thamnarestan


Well that attidude is shared by ~95% of cast members. We are not as nearly caught up in all this Disney crap as you APs are. There are some cast members who are, but they are ostracized as the "Disney geeks", and usually don't last long. Anyone remember the story of Wes, the Pirates Cast Member / Annual Passholder who applied 13 times to Disneyland, was finally hired when DCA opened, and then almost killed someone on the ride because of his own incompetency? These sort of people should not be working at Disneyland (especially in safety postions). Their place is enjoying the park as paying customers.

Look, I don't know you, and I don't want to Judge, maybe you don't like your job or whatever, but there are MANY Cast Members out there who do enjoy the magic... If you think about it, why else would you work there? That is pretty much the reason that I am working there. There are plenty of other jobs that you could probably get paid more for, probably jobs a lot closer to home (I know people who drive from Riverside and Hollywood to work at Disneyland).

Maybe there is a small percentage of Cast Members out there who really are dissillusioned with "the Disney Experience" but then I propose...go somewhere else.

I was an Annual Passholder for many years and I did some pretty stupid stuff in my AP days, ( but I was a stupid kid :D ). I am incredibly happy to be working for Disneyland, and I still enjoy the magic. (I am not saying that I am not disillusioned, because I am, but that doesn't mean that I am going to go around and Ruin it for other people. I have A TON of great memories of disneyland as a kid, and whenever I am helping a guest (especially a child), I try to remember what it was like for me. Even when my friends, who know I work at The park, ask me stuff, I won't usually tell them (mostly because you never know who is around you that may hear what you say, or see what you do). I just tell them if they want to know how it works they should get a job here.
I get upset with the world, but I leave it at the gates.

It has always been my dream to work at Disneyland, and I don't think that unless you have taken a poll of a representitive sample of cast members you should be making up statistics like that. Maybe in your group of friends, 95% of them are completely dissilusioned, but as I said before that doesn't mean that everybody is.

ok, I will get off of my soap box because I am kinda afraid of hights

PhilMP
06-12-2002, 12:46 PM
But you see corrinhorn, you're a CT, so whenever you work it's a blackout day for a lot of APs, so you don't have to put up with them. :D

That being said, get your butt back to work!!! ODV needs more experienced people so I won't have to put up with all these annoying new hires.

Phil