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WDWalways
06-10-2002, 05:56 AM
I just got back from SoCal and part of my trip was 3 nights at the Paradise Pier Hotel with a 3 day hopper and I signed on to MousePad and the first thing I see is one of the Headlines saying Disneyland recovers but DCA's numbers keep going down.
I just don't understand - DCA was definitely not as busy as DL but it was by no means empty - rides had stand-by wait times up to 90 minutes and fast passes were for 2 hours later than the time you got it - AND I was there during the week (Tuesday checking out Friday). Maybe I'm just naive because I don't live close enough to go on a more regular basis and this was only my 2nd visit to DLR since DCA opened but I do not see this park as failing -- the 3 days I was there last week there was just as many people there as a normal (not slow, not peak) normal time period at WDW. Yes, there seemed to be alot more people at DL but I also think they were all in New Orleans Square!! That area was jammed everyday and the rest of the park seemed normal.

Anyway, I enjoyed DCA alot just like I did the first time I visited March 2001 and I had a really good time on my 3nts/4days trip to the DLR but I do not see how DCA could still be considered a failure. :confused:

Dreamstaker
06-10-2002, 06:29 AM
I was there this Saturday from 11:30 to 3:00pm and it was not crowded in my opinion.

Wait time for GRR was 10 minutes (and it was less than that really)

Wait time for Soaring was 25 minutes, fastpass was 30 minutes ahead. (Fastpassed it for a 10 minute wait)

The Maliboomer was the longest wait for me at 20 minutes.

Maybe it has more crowds on Monday- Friday, but Saturday is very light. I can see what Al is talking about, for a full price theme park, the crowds are no where near Disneyland.

Iceman
06-10-2002, 06:37 AM
Ah! You have identified the fallacy in the naysayers' reasoning. They seem to think, "If we bash the park enough, others will start to think that our opinion is the truth." Well, reality shines light to banish their dim view, and the only way to get the truth is to go to DCA for yourself and see that there are plenty of attractions, the theming is complete, and people have a great time there.

WDWalways
06-10-2002, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Iceman
Ah! You have identified the fallacy in the naysayers' reasoning. They seem to think, "If we bash the park enough, others will start to think that our opinion is the truth." Well, reality shines light to banish their dim view, and the only way to get the truth is to go to DCA for yourself and see that there are plenty of attractions, the theming is complete, and people have a great time there.

Speaking of themeing --- I only visited DCA for a day in March 2001 -- only had one night in Anaheim on that trip so one day was spent at DL and the other at DCA -- and I did NOT pay attention to every little thing at DCA that day and maybe things have changed with some of the themeing but after reading post after post of how badly themed DCA is I knew I had to pay more attention on this trip and actually being able to go everyday for 3 days in a row really helped -- SO my point is the themeing is great IMO -- first of all, I know this may be trivial but how cute is it that when you go to one of the eateries in/on the train (Bur-r Bank Ice Cream and the Bakery) they give you your receipt and say "here is your ticket" and when they call you off the line they say "next passenger please" --- I thought that was too adorable!! Also, the music piped into Paradise Pier is a mix of California songs and classic Disney done in a carny style and even the smells in that area are reminiscent of beachside amusement parks!! The area through and around Grizzly River is incredible!! It has a totally different feel and look then the rest of the park --- the "street" signs too!! (Deer crossing etc.)

I'm sorry follks, I did NOT want to turn this into another "I love DCA!" "You hate DCA!" thread but now going again I still can't figure out what the problem is?? I think the place is great!!

:)

Dreamstaker
06-10-2002, 06:59 AM
I like it, don't even think I do not.

I go there once a week.

Just that I can tell the crowds are not what they wanted.

Ghoulish Delight
06-10-2002, 07:21 AM
Some clarification. Most people's complaint (not all, but most, including Al) about the theming is not so much that is isn't done well (though there are a few things everyone agrees were done with no effort), but rather that there is nowhere to go with it. Meaning, sure, it might be fine for a park half the size of DL, but how in the heck, once they start expanding, are they going to continue this "California within California theme." They are already stretching it. The very first post-opening addition was Millionaire, a television show synonymous with New York! Then, they started throwing Monsters Inc. stuff around. Not sure what that has to do with California. The whole Bug's Life thing, with Flick's Fair being added, is not exactly distinctly California. I'm pretty sure they have bugs in other states. You see where I'm going with this? They haven't really shown that there's much further that they can stretch the theme.

So it's not really the quality, just that it seems rather limited in scope.

WDWalways
06-10-2002, 08:09 AM
What's funny is when I first heard about Disneyland getting a new theme park and it was to be called Disney's California Adventure it never occurred to me (maybe I'm stupid, I don't know:rolleyes: ) but I never even thought it was supposed to be a theme park about the state of California and nothing else -- I just thought it was the name of the new park and it was in California and they wanted people to realize when they heard about the new park as to what Disney resort it was in -- I don't think they need to keep the California theme going forever if they don't want to -- and even if they did I'm sure they can come up with original, fun ideas.

merlinjones
06-10-2002, 08:15 AM
Aren't they cutting back on capacity (number of trains, rafts ,etc) when DCA is slower? That would increase wait times even when there are fewer people in the park. It would be consistent with what I have seen happening there.

As for theming, there are few great vistas or attactive groupings of immersive theming the way the park is laid out. There are hardly any weenies at the end of the roads to gape at. The best views are given to the hotel, rather than the park visitor (see Grizzly mountain, which is laid out for the hotel view, and none from the hub or main walkway).

It is a botch, even with the given theme (think how nice World Showcase looks... our San Francisco should look like one of those pavillions).

Even Condor flats had to resort to a sign with an arrow to Grizzly Mt (right next door) because they didn't lay it out to be seen from there.

Ugly, ugly lack of vision.:confused:

WDWalways
06-10-2002, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Aren't they cutting back on capacity (number of trains, rafts ,etc) when DCA is slower? That would increase wait times even when there are fewer people in the park. It would be consistent with what I have seen happening there.

Well, this could be true -- the only thing I did notice that would verify this was on Soarin' (which we rode twice) both times they had the 3rd row empty even when the line was long outside and the fast passes were for an hour and a half later -- the 2nd time we rode I noticed it and said "you know, the 3rd row was empty the last time too -- why would they do that when people are waiting??"

MonorailMan
06-10-2002, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by WDWalways


Well, this could be true -- the only thing I did notice that would verify this was on Soarin' (which we rode twice) both times they had the 3rd row empty even when the line was long outside and the fast passes were for an hour and a half later -- the 2nd time we rode I noticed it and said "you know, the 3rd row was empty the last time too -- why would they do that when people are waiting??"

Maybe they were having problems with the seat belts. I found out (after I couldn't get out of my seat belt, and they had to manually release it) that after the next "flight", they didn't use that row. :)

mad4mky
06-10-2002, 08:54 AM
While we all complain about DCA...because we ARE from California. I think we need to take into consideration what other people's perception of DCA is who come from out of state, and do not have a nice 3 or 4 week vacation to see all of our fair state. Granted, it's NOT the best representation of our state...but it does highlight some of our wonderful state's attributes.


Did anyone notice that WDWAlways is from New York?

(a lot of people back east think we Californian's are a bunch of nuts...even on "Everybody Loves Raymond" there was a comment about how Californians are a bunch of wackos). Let the rest of the 49 states see some good points of California....even if it is showcased in not the best light. Out of state visitors might see DCA in an entirely different light than us natives.

DCA is not my favorite Disney theme park. But, I'd take it over SFMarine World or Paramount's Great America any day.:rolleyes:

RStar
06-10-2002, 09:03 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by merlinjones
[B]Aren't they cutting back on capacity (number of trains, rafts ,etc) when DCA is slower? That would increase wait times even when there are fewer people in the park. It would be consistent with what I have seen happening there.

As for theming, there are few great vistas or attactive groupings of immersive theming the way the park is laid out. There are hardly any weenies at the end of the roads to gape at. The best views are given to the hotel, rather than the park visitor (see Grizzly mountain, which is laid out for the hotel view, and none from the hub or main walkway).

It is a botch, even with the given theme (think how nice World Showcase looks... our San Francisco should look like one of those pavillions).

Even Condor flats had to resort to a sign with an arrow to Grizzly Mt (right next door) because they didn't lay it out to be seen from there.

Ugly, ugly lack of vision.

__________________________________________________ __
Hey there merlinjones!

You bring up two good points. the first that they have been cutting back on ride capacity, "artifically" lingthening the lines, so your right, that is not a good indicater of attendace.

And then you brought up another good point. The poor use of "weenies". The flow of the park and the weenies that Walt used for Disneyland are all but non-excestant in DCA. Case in point is the reported increase of attendance at the It's Tough to Be A Bug show. All they did was alter the entrance, add a sign and BINGO!, now people can find it. I knew something was missing in DCA's layout, but untill you mentioned it I couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks.
:D

justagrrl
06-10-2002, 09:08 AM
"weenies"?

Is that some sort of seeing ahead into something interesting from where you are standing in the park to draw you in...or something?

Ghoulish Delight
06-10-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by justagrrl
"weenies"?

Is that some sort of seeing ahead into something interesting from where you are standing in the park to draw you in...or something? Yes. That was Walt's word. The Matterhorn is the ultimate weenie. It is something just visible in the next area/land to draw your eye and attention and to make you want to keep you moving through the park, always curious about that thing you can get a glimpse of just around the next corner. The proverbial carrot on a stick.

innerSpaceman
06-10-2002, 09:28 AM
Yes, justagrrl, that's exactly what a weenie is, in theme park parlance. It's not that DCA has none, just that it has very few. The park's major icon, Grizzly Peak, does not serve as a weenie from anywhere in the park - a major waste. But I would say that the Hollywood Backlot street is laid out as a sort-of-weenie from the park's hub, and Paradise Pier is weenie-like from across the bay.

As for crowds, I noticed yesterday (Sunday, June 9) that crowds were a bit thicker in DCA than normal (though still far less crowded than Disneyland that day - wider walkways help this feeling as well as just less people). That is not to say that DCA is finally getting crowded, but that a semi-crowded day really stuck out to me as a major change of pace.

One more thing: Iit's standard Disney theme park practice to decrease the capacity of rides as attendance decreases. This is not done to artificially create a feeling of crowdedness, but rather to annoy guests who are visiting the parks on uncrowded days;)

WDWalways
06-10-2002, 09:33 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RStar

Case in point is the reported increase of attendance at the It's Tough to Be A Bug show. All they did was alter the entrance, add a sign and BINGO!, now people can find it. [QUOTE]

Funny you should say that because at the original queue for Tough to Be a Bug in AK it was so impossible to find the entrance and then they finally added a sign, too!

RStar
06-10-2002, 12:09 PM
It may prompt some sort of added signage, but the one they added at DCA is because of the building of "Flicks Fun Faire" next to it and they had to close the usual entrance. So they used an emergancy exit right off the main walkway and put the sign there. So it was by accident, and they saw the attendance jump instantly, from what I hear.
:)

jason
06-10-2002, 01:02 PM
we just got back from a week at dl we started with a 4 day hopper and liked dca so much upped it at the front desk to a six day hopper (we stayed at the paradise peir and they added on 2 days for 2 adults and two kids for $84 ...now thats service )!!! my kids 4 & 7 liked dca , the grrrrun and the chip and dale adventure land come up as thier favorites and of course screamin & soaring .
some one told me that there is'nt much for the young kids over there . don't you believe it !!!
..o.k here it goes .... i'm crouching behind the desk ... i liked it more than disneyland !

jason

jason
06-10-2002, 01:09 PM
i just had another thought .... if they want to increase attendance connect both parks ... if the crowds could move freely , when one is busy they will of course move to the other ...but not when it invoves a cavity search and line up every time ! if the monorail stoped in dca and not dl the stats would be different .

maybe a themed tunnel , overpass or train .

jason

Ghoulish Delight
06-10-2002, 01:19 PM
This has been mentioned and discussed many times. There are two things going against it. 1) Many people simply don't feel that DCA would fit as an addition to DL rather than a separate gate. The two parks have very different feels and goals, and would probably not mesh well together. 2) Disney's real goal here was to increase revenue at DLR by having 2 gates. If they link the parks, one of two things will happen. Either they will just swallow the losses and keep charging ~$45, thus defeting the purpose. Or raise the price to match the current park-hopper prices, meaning it will then be impossible to visit a DLR park for under $80 (without discounts, of course). Niether is very attractive.

WDWalways
06-10-2002, 01:34 PM
I don't think they should make the 2 parks into 1 BIG park (definitely NO) but they should make a monorail stop at the Golden Gate Bridge that can take you into DL --- walking across is certainly easy and a short walk but it is a pain to wait on line again and get your bags searched -- they should come up with an easier way.

adriennek
06-10-2002, 02:03 PM
I'm glad someone's kids like it, Jason. My kid most definitely does not like it.

Now, I think some people might assume that I've filled his head with anti-DCA thoughts. I haven't. Really. Most of my conversation about DCA has been online and he can't read that well yet. I haven't even said a lot bad about DCA, just that I don't think it's a great place for kids.

We have to basically beg this kid to goto DCA. "Don't you want to go ride the fishies?" We have to talk up anything positive we can think of to get him in there. He's been known to cry: "No! I don't like DCA! I want to go to Disneyland!"

I'm not trying to start an "war" of whether or not people are going to like DCA or should like it or should go to see it. But I will say that I can only base my opinions based on my family's experiences.

Adrienne K

RStar
06-10-2002, 05:12 PM
I think what jason is trying to say is that if they connect the two parks in a way that you can move through easier, like a self-serve gate, that would help. The Monorail would be a good way. Once you are serched they don't have to do it again. However, I park hop alot and it is easier to go through the gate than wait for the monorail! But a passageway would be nice. But NOT to make it one big park, just an easier way to hop.:)

Matterhorn Fan
06-10-2002, 05:21 PM
I don't think it's that big of a hassle to park-hop.

Just how much stuff are some of you taking with you to the parks that it's such a hassle to have your bag checked (it's not like it's airport security--it's a person with a stick who peeks into your bag) and your ticket scanned? If you're a mommy and you have to have supplies handy I understand, but the others?

Disneylandman
06-10-2002, 06:04 PM
<<Aren't they cutting back on capacity (number of trains, rafts ,etc) when DCA is slower? That would increase wait times even when there are fewer people in the park. It would be consistent with what I have seen happening there. >>

That is what they always do at DCA. Almost every attraction is never running at capasity because there is not enough demand for it. If the guests just basically walked on every ride, they would be done with the park in a couple of hours. After going on the best rides there isn't much to do.