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View Full Version : Well we know what it Isn't... [golden spike in Castle entry]



Park Freak
02-19-2007, 05:05 PM
I'm talking about the bronze spike in the pavement under the castle. We all know that it is not, nor has it ever been the center of "The Park".
But I have never heard what it is.
Does anyone else know???

Bytebear
02-19-2007, 05:13 PM
It was an original surveyor marker.

http://www.limunltd.com/disney/types/types.html
List of every marker in the park (http://www.wintertime.com/OH/GC/Disney/disneymarks.html#DLR)

Also from Disleylies.com (http://www.disneylies.com/legends/disneyland.html) (tongue in cheek):

The marker really does show the park's center, but it was not always beneath the castle. When Disneyland was first being laid out, a team of surveyors under the guidance of Walt Disney located the park's original center using a gigantic piece of string. The original center is at the middle of the large compass south of the castle. Over the years, as the park was added to, the exact geographical center has moved many times. But it was only after the construction of Mickey's Toontown that Disneyland executives decided the park had expanded enough to warrant a new marker. Using the ultra-high-resolution camera on one of Disney's "communications" satellites, a detailed survey of the park's new borders was made, and the new center calculated -- this time taking into account such technicalities as the non-Euclidian nature of surface geometry when measuring angles on the curved surface of the Earth. In a midnight ceremony shrouded in secrecy, the current marker was placed on the newly calculated spot.

Rufus T Firefly
02-19-2007, 05:14 PM
I'm talking about the bronze spike in the pavement under the castle. We all know that it is not, nor has it ever been the center of "The Park".
But I have never heard what it is.
Does anyone else know???

Whether or not it was the center of the original park is open for debate. But, it definately is a surveyour's marker, similiar to the markers that are used to mark property lines.

DaddyB
02-19-2007, 07:13 PM
According to Kevin Yee & Jason Schultz' book "101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland", it is indeed a survey marker for the centerline of Main Street through the castle. During the construction of Disneyland, they wanted to make sure that the castle was always centered on Main Street. (see the postscript of that book).

Park Freak
02-20-2007, 03:42 PM
Well I guess that I'm just as confused as ever. Everyone says that it is a survey marker, but this is what the first link from Bytebear says...

"This appears to be a spike or disk. It is often said that this object is a survey marker that marks the original geographic center of Disneyland. Disney tour guides do say this, but cast members are frequently wrong. There are at least two sources that claim that this marker is not and never was the center of Disneyland. Michelle Smith (The Fabulous Disney Babe) reports information from the late David Mumford (Disney Imagineer) and Ish.Kabibel reports information from Dave Smith (Disney Archivist). Dave Smith has informed me that there is currently no consensus at Walt Disney Imagineering as to the purpose of this marker. I am continuing to investigate and hope to find solid primary references. If you know of any Disney publications that mention this marker, please let me know."

I guess nobody really knows. :confused:

Bytebear
02-20-2007, 05:20 PM
(deleted)

DaddyB
02-20-2007, 08:21 PM
Well I guess that I'm just as confused as ever. Everyone says that it is a survey marker, but this is what the first link from Bytebear says...

"This appears to be a spike or disk. It is often said that this object is a survey marker that marks the original geographic center of Disneyland. Disney tour guides do say this, but cast members are frequently wrong. There are at least two sources that claim that this marker is not and never was the center of Disneyland. Michelle Smith (The Fabulous Disney Babe) reports information from the late David Mumford (Disney Imagineer) and Ish.Kabibel reports information from Dave Smith (Disney Archivist). Dave Smith has informed me that there is currently no consensus at Walt Disney Imagineering as to the purpose of this marker. I am continuing to investigate and hope to find solid primary references. If you know of any Disney publications that mention this marker, please let me know."

I guess nobody really knows. :confused:
Honestly? I'd go with Kevin Yee over Michelle Smith. I have respect for Michelle, but more for Kevin and his sources and research.

Plus, what Kevin & Jason report makes sense from a visual perspective, too (stand on the spot and look at the Main Street Railroad Station).

Donald Duck Fan68
02-20-2007, 08:34 PM
According to Kevin Yee & Jason Schultz' book "101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland", it is indeed a survey marker for the centerline of Main Street through the castle. During the construction of Disneyland, they wanted to make sure that the castle was always centered on Main Street. (see the postscript of that book).

What it sounds like to me is that CM tour guides do not understand the difference between a survey marker being used as a centerline and the center of something circular. So, they were probably informed that it was the centerline of Main Street through the castle and they thought that was the same thing as being the "center" of the park. Besides, looking at aerial images of DL in 1956, I think the hub was designed to be the "center" of the park.

DaddyB
02-20-2007, 10:01 PM
Kevin & Jason state the same thing about the "Central Plaza" Hub... it has that name for a reason.

smd4
02-21-2007, 04:55 AM
Whether or not it was the center of the original park is open for debate.It certainly isn't up for debate. It never was the center of the park. In fact, the hub was always the center.

In the two photos I've linked to below, the vertical red line denotes the vertical center. It's bisected by the horizontal red line. The blue line goes through the spike:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/sdegaetano/aerial.jpg


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/sdegaetano/goldspike.jpg

Also, you cannot justify the statement by saying the park has expanded northward with Toontown. That being the case, the "center" would have moved north from the spike as well.

As others have said, it is nothing more than a surveyor's benchmark. As such, it does lie on DL's original center line. But it's not the "geographic center." And never has been.

This is just another DL urban legend that deserves to be brought out into the light of day. Along with the "colorblind bulldozer operator" and the "POTC ride is underground."

disneyhound
02-21-2007, 05:13 AM
When my dd and I took the 50th tour in January of 2006, our Tour Guide said it was the exact center of Disneyland before the Toon Town addition. But, as I had been told before, Tour Guides are not always 100% accurate... :cool:

smd4
02-21-2007, 05:31 AM
When my dd and I took the 50th tour in January of 2006, our Tour Guide said it was the exact center of Disneyland before the Toon Town addition. But, as I had been told before, Tour Guides are not always 100% accurate... :cool:The spike is actually closer to the center now, after and because of the Toontown extension (as can be seen in my second photo).

Park Freak
02-21-2007, 06:21 AM
I know and respect the research into Kevin and Jasons books also. What made me think, was this part of the one I quoted before:

Ish.Kabibel reports information from Dave Smith (Disney Archivist). Dave Smith has informed me that there is currently no consensus at Walt Disney Imagineering as to the purpose of this marker.

I tend to go with the theory that is is a survey marker marking the center line down Main Street. That makes the most sense to me for some of the reasons discussed above.

Thanks for the good discussione everyone. :D :D

ralfrick
02-21-2007, 12:06 PM
Whether or not it was the center of the original park is open for debate.
No, it isn't; a quick look at any of the ariel photos that exist squash any debate immediately.

A bientot.

smd4
02-21-2007, 12:32 PM
Of course, anything can be said to be "open for debate." It all depends on the rationality of those who want to continue the debate.

I've posted the pictures above before--and others--only to be confronted with folks who simply refuse to believe what they see with their own eyes. The pictures are wrong; the 19 year-old tour guide is right, and there's no two ways about it.

There are still those who think that a round Earth is open for debate, or that the moon landing is open for debate. And there will always be the contingent who believe the "gold Spike" marks (or marked) the "geographic" center of Disneyland.

Mark Mywords
02-21-2007, 03:28 PM
Gee, I always thought that the gold spike marked the spot above the secret underground chamber where they keep Walt's cryogenically preserved body...

;)

just beatla33
02-21-2007, 03:40 PM
his body isn't perserved, he's just a head right now with a bunch of wires hooked to him and he still operates the whole park. We are just meant to think his long gone.