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Marty
05-22-2002, 04:47 PM
I just got back from 4 days at Disneyland. About 5 months ago a friend of mine put together an informal package that allowed about 20 families to go down for a pretty good price (airfare, hotel, park tickets).

Basically, I went down for my kids. I have never had much interest in a theme park vacation. I visited Disneyland about 25 years ago as teenager, but back then I was far more interested in going to Dodger games and spending my time bodysurfing at the beaches. However, since the price was good and my kids (twin 4 year old girls) love everything Disney, I thought I’d give it a go.

Knowing so little about the place, I actually paid for the vacation before I deigned to learn anything about the place. I was actually surprised to learn there was more than one park. Realizing how little I knew, I started to do some research on the net. That’s how I found this site. Let me say first off how thankful I am for everyone involved with mouseplanet and it’s message board. The stuff I learned here made a real difference in our trip. I know that most of the people who participate in these discussions are big time fans of the park, so I thought some of you might be interested on the insights of someone who came down without the expectations of a huge Disney fan.

Now, after I did some reading I was disappointed to learn that I had to have chosen the worst possible weekend to arrive. Big Thunder Mtn., Splash Mtn. and Small World were all down. Add to this mix that this new California theme park was supposed to be such a dud. Before I even stepped into the place I thought I was getting the raw end of the stick.

Disneyland, I have to admit, was a lot of fun. At least it was through the eyes of kids. I still don’t think I would want to spend time here away from the company of my children. But I had to appreciate the gorgeous setting. And like everyone on this site has repeatedly said, the cast members were incredible. I was blown away by their friendliness. I have to say that many of the complaints I see on this site could only impact the most attentive fan. I find it hard to believe that Disney is slipping. The place was bright, cheerful and extremely well run.

But of course it was also very crowded. After our first morning there, we took our kids back for an afternoon nap at the hotel. We got back at about 5 pm and I really wasn’t up to more crowds, so we decided to take a chance on California Adventure. I thought I was taking a bit of chance as everything I read about the place had me convinced that Calfornia Adventure was a huge waste of money. Now here is where I really differ from the sentiment on this site. I thought this park was incredible. Admittedly, the lack of crowds certainly helped my perception. But in the first evening we spent there we saw the Muppet 3D Show (incredible), a street performance of song and dance that rivals most of what I have paid to see on stage back at home, the Animation Exhibit (brilliant), Blast (mind boggling good) and the Electrical Parade (masterpiece). We were there for about 4 hours and never got out of the Backlot area. Sure, we waited about 40 minutes for the parade. But they had a band playing dance music to keep the crowd entertained and our kids loved it. They even had a conga line going.

I got back to my hotel room thinking that I must have missed something about this new park. Our time there was easily the highlight of the day, at least it was in my opinion. But then the next morning, both of my girls wanted to back to the California Adventure Park, not Disneyland. I started talking to other families who we had flown down with and they were saying the same thing. Everyone, it seems, were talking about how great they found this new park. So no, I wasn’t alone in my opinion.

So while we continued to spend time in Disneyland everyday for the rest of the trip, we found ourselves spending equal amounts of time at California Adventure. Far fewer crowds, exciting attractions, good food and an abundance of very good street performers. I would sum up the difference in the parks this way. At Disneyland there was supposed to be a Toy Story character meet and greet. We hiked our way over and were slightly disappointed that Jesse was the only character to come out. About 2 hours later there was a Monster Inc. meet and greet scheduled over at the California Park. But there we got a full and very entertaining show with Mike and Sully, which was followed by lots of time set aside for the kids to interact with the characters.

Basically, it seemed to us that they were trying harder at the California Park. And while I realize it does not have the number of attractions as Disneyland, they have sure packed a lot of entertainment value into the attractions it does have. Folks, this place is already a gem. I suppose if you are looking for a carbon copy of Disneyland, you are going to be disappointed. But then I am also certain that most of the people who hate this park would probably also hate Disneyland if they somehow traveled back 40 years in time and a spent a day there.

Uncle Dick
05-22-2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Marty
But then I am also certain that most of the people who hate this park would probably also hate Disneyland if they somehow traveled back 40 years in time and a spent a day there.
Well of course they'd be disappointed, just as someone from today would probably be disappointed with television 40 years ago. Technology and guest expectations have risen so much since the fifties that I really don't think the connection between opening day Disneyland and opening day DCA can be made, just as no one would attempt to fairly compare the box office grosses of "Gone With the Wind" and "Attack of the Clones" without first factoring in inflation.

Glad you had a good time.

gn2dlnd
05-22-2002, 05:11 PM
Marty, I'm glad you and your family enjoyed your visit to DCA. However, I'm disappointed that this thread isn't about DCA's rocks. DCA does have such nice rocks.
;)

Marty
05-22-2002, 05:27 PM
Hey There Uncle Dick

The point here for me is that I went to Disneyland and DCA without a lot of expectations. I just wanted to show my kids a good time. Then I find that this derided “other” park in fact is a lot of fun. Maybe I’m wrong and this DCA is a poor excuse for a theme park. But after talking to lot of other people who were delighted by the place, I have to wonder if the sentiment expressed on this board is a result of expectations that just can’t be met. Everyone here talks about how great Disneyland used to be. I am in no way qualified to comment on that. But I do know that Disneyland today offers pretty good value for your entertainment dollar and DCA is an amazing bonus.

Uncle Dick
05-22-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Marty
But I do know that Disneyland today offers pretty good value for your entertainment dollar and DCA is an amazing bonus.
Agreed. For the record, I do enjoy DCA. I just take issue with the oft-repeated and, IMHO, fallacious notion that we should "take it easy" on DCA just because Disneyland was bare on opening day.

Iceman
05-22-2002, 06:40 PM
I wonder if the DCA-haters are going to create an unintended backlash? They lower peoples' expectations so much that once they give the park a try they can't HELP but be impressed, good word-of-mouth ensues, and DCA goes on to be a huge success! (Well, I can dream, can't I? ;) )

EandCDad
05-22-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Marty
Hey There Uncle Dick

The point here for me is that I went to Disneyland and DCA without a lot of expectations. I just wanted to show my kids a good time. Then I find that this derided “other” park in fact is a lot of fun. Maybe I’m wrong and this DCA is a poor excuse for a theme park. But after talking to lot of other people who were delighted by the place, I have to wonder if the sentiment expressed on this board is a result of expectations that just can’t be met. Everyone here talks about how great Disneyland used to be. I am in no way qualified to comment on that. But I do know that Disneyland today offers pretty good value for your entertainment dollar and DCA is an amazing bonus.

Hey Marty, great trip report! Glad you had a good time and I always like to hear about kids enjoying themselves. My family always has a great time at DCA for some of the very same reasons you mentioned. We are still partial to DL, my girls are Fantasyland nuts, but we have our DCA favorites as well.

Just want to point out that I don't think its fair to lump all the posters on this board into those that hold one "sentiment" about DCA. There are people that don't like it. There are also people who post here regularly that love it. There are also people who post here regularly who wish it was better but like certain aspects. I spend lots of time in DCA in the company of Mousepadders regularly (well, semi-regularly). They all seem to be having a good time and I think they are for the most part fair and balanced in their discussions on this board.

Now certainly, Al Lutz does not like DCA and criticizes it regularly. He is the most visible personality on MousePlanet but he doesn't post on MousePad. Some who post on MousePad share his feelings but they are by no means the dominant group or even the majority. Sometimes they have the most vocal opinions but you will see people on both sides of the issue.

Also, sometimes Mousepadders will make the point that DCA is not worth the admission price. They usually mean a full priced single day ticket. The same people would probably agree that when you go in on a park hopper pass or on an AP, DCA can be a good value for many of the same reasons you mentioned. I have seen that sentiment posted again and again on this site in the last 13 months.

Anyway, sorry so many cool DL attractions were closed when you came. That just means you will have to come back soon. Thanks again for the trip report, hope to hear more from you.

HTHBellcaptain
05-22-2002, 07:13 PM
I greatly look forward to visiting DCA. I have not been yet, but hopefully will change that this fall. I will certainly make up my own mind as to whether or not I like it. I think I will have a good time, but I insist on having fun wherever I go.

I understand both sides of the DCA argument. I do think that it is unfair to compare DCA to Disneyland. They are two totally different things. It is like comparing the Magic Kingdom with Disney's Animal Kingdom. They are two different creatures and deserve to be looked at on an individual basis.

With that said, the concerns that I have with what I know of DCA is that it seems that there are way to many secondhand and off the self attractions, and that the concepts do not seem to live up to the Disney standard of creativiety. But you know what? I could be totally wrong, because I haven't visited the place yet.

I do think that criticism can be healthy, even if we may not agree with it. That's how Disneyland has been able to grow through the years.

I look froward to visiting DCA and finding out for myself.

Marty
05-23-2002, 12:36 AM
Hey there EandCDad

Good points, and I agree there is nothing wrong with some healthy criticism. I guess what I can't understand (after my recent visit) is not the criticisms of the DCA, but the outright hostility some people seem to have toward the park. Nothing wrong with thinking that Disneyland is the better of the two attractions, but that in no way detracts from the abundance of fun that can be had at DCA. And I just refuse to believe that the kind of person who likes theme parks (the assumption being that everyone who posts on this site falls into that category) would fail to have a good time if they went to DCA with an open mind. It seems to me that those who express such venom toward DCA are probably attaching a level of expectation to the DCA experience that is just plain unattainable.

I, on the other hand, have no such expectations. Disneyland does not represent anything but another entertainment choice for me. If the corporation does a crappy job with their parks, they won't get my repeat business. But from what I experienced, I have no problems in stating that I will be back with my kids again. And you can bet that we will reserve as much time for DCA as we do for Disneyland.

EandCDad
05-23-2002, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Marty
Hey there EandCDad

Good points, and I agree there is nothing wrong with some healthy criticism. I guess what I can't understand (after my recent visit) is not the criticisms of the DCA, but the outright hostility some people seem to have toward the park.

I don't really understand it either buddy. I won't try to speak for them but alot of it seems to be that it could have been so much better, if more money and imagination had been put into it.

My main point was that its not the combined attitude of the posters on this Board. I would argue its not even the majority opinion.

Anyway, next time you come down, post a message, we'll have a meet!

justagrrl
05-23-2002, 06:39 AM
Glad you had such a great time. We always have fun in DCA!

I too don't understand the outright hatred some have towards the park - the comments of how it should have remained a parking lot are a good example.

My thoughts - it's just fine and dandy that "those people" don't like it. Just more room for us when we go without "them" in line in front of us. ;)

DigitalLizard
05-23-2002, 06:41 AM
My experiences with DCA have been mediocre at best, and I have
visited the park about 4 times since it's opening (I have an AP)...
this time it was SO much better than DL!!!!

DL will always truly be where the magic began... but I am excited
about the growth possibilities for DCA!

Having a great amount of rides down at DL all at the same time
was a real bummer! We felt like we had to wait twice the time in
line at the rides that were open - even with the fast pass!

But then at DCA my 40 year old cousin even had fun... she lives about
15 minutes from DLR and has not been there since we were kids...
she LOVED DCA! She wants to take her side of the family there soon!
She screamed all the way thru Bugs Life and Muppet Vision!

This was the first time that I have been there that paradise pier hasn't
had to close because of the winds... so I found that the Zepher really
DOES work!

The only disappointment was that Sam Andreas Shakes was closed!
They have THE BEST sweets there in all of the park! I never found out
why... maybe because of the weather... it was a tad chillier than
we had planned for.

Millionaire was really fun also! This was the first time we had time
to do it!

We all had a really grand time at DCA!

Sunday my travelling companion and I took part in the mouse planet
mad scramble which was also very enjoyable... even tho we REALLY
got creamed! It was really fun! And we are looking forward to the next one!:cool:

merlinjones
05-23-2002, 07:13 AM
quote:Originally posted by Marty (or is it Spin?)

>>But then I am also certain that most of the people who hate this park would probably also hate Disneyland if they somehow traveled back 40 years in time and a spent a day there.<<


"Certain"? Strange assumption. I simply don't think you understand those who like Disneyland and dislike DCA. You say yourself you wouldn't necessarily like Disneyland without your kids, sort of case-in-point. In fact, you sound somewhat like Disney management in their inability to grasp what makes Disneyland tick (and always has) and DCA suck (and always will). And like them, you have a hostile tone towards people that disagree with your views.

So I'll take up the challenge. Come with me on a trip:

If I travelled back 40 years to Disneyland 1962, as you propose, I would find a beautifully designed and artfully detailed park, with a gorgeous and compelling layout, the taste of the top artisans in Hollywood on display, their craft honed by years of recreating fantasy and escapist storytelling on film. I would feel as if the modern world of LA had melted away and I was thrust into another dimension - - the world of Walt's movies. Breathtaking vistas are laid out for the eye and a compelling "weenie" leads me to the end of every street. I would find incredible Disney kitsch, the realization of Walt's films and ideals in three dimensions. A freshly opened Swiss Family Treehouse (from one of my favorite films) pumps the strains of Swisskapolka into Adventureland, its clever water system carrying fresh water to all parts of the tropical high rise. In Tomorrowland, I would soar on pads of air like a hockey puck to bump my pals in Flying Saucers or descend into the depths of the ocean for a journey through liquid space in Submarine Voyage, past real live bathing beauty mermaids. I could visit the artful sets from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (another one of my favorite films), or Babes in Toyland (yet another one of my faves) and view an exhibit on the making of Sleeping Beauty (my very favorite film). In the castle, I would see flat miniature diaromas designed by Eyvind Earle, Ken Anderson and Claude Coats depicting the story of Sleeping Beauty in all its stylized glory and shout naughty words into the electronic echo chamber of Maleficent's bottomless pit of screams. Outside in Fantasyland, I could see a medieval faire with eye popping color styling by Eyvind Earle and get aboard Captain Hook's full sized Pirate Ship to watch fireworks above or eat a tuna sandwich under Skull Rock. I could fly over Fantasyland, Storybookland and the Pirate Ship, through the Matterhorn on Swiss Skyway buckets. I could ride a Mine Train into the world of Walt Disney's True Life Adventures and see the trippy Rainbow Caverns and pass under a lovely waterfall running into the Rivers of America (where I might be "shot" by Indians attacking Fort Wilderness). I would surely take in an anuthentic Indian Tribal Dance in the Indian Villlage. I might see my hero Zorro fighting in the streets of Frontierland before catching Slue Foot Sue's Golden Horseshoe Revue, with her high stepping Can-Can Girls. For dinner, I would eat at my favorite Tahitian Terrace and watch a spectacular Polynesian Revue with Hula and Fire Dancers, then enjoy a big name concert in Tomorrowland or Plaza Gardens - - maybe even Louis Armstrong or Annette or Ward Kimball and his Firehouse Five! On the way out I would find similarly artful souveniers, unusual items chosen from around the globe to compliment the exotic environments of Disneyland, and an Art Corner with cels, flipbooks and artist driven paraphenalia relating to the high period of Disney Animation and a music shop filled with hard to find (even then) Disney LP's or publications. I notice the rich period detail in the Main Street stores, which recreate shopping experiences from the turn of the century. I notice how everywhere in the park, the paint is bright and there is not a spot of trash, and how bright, friendly and attractive the hand picked young cast members are. What a great place this must be to work, I would think - - everyone seems so happy. And everything in the park seems brand new (even though some of it is almost ten years old). Wow... I might even see Walt himself and get an autograph on my ticket book!!! What an amazing man, he seems cares about this place, but that's why his name is on it.

I would have been the guest of a true Showman of the World, given an experience into art and fantasy and nostalgia and futurism that I could not get anywhere else on Earth as a tourist - - all from an artist driven company that spared no expense to give me the most current technology and craft available in the entertainment industry, to exceed my expectations. It would be Walt Disney's Wonderful World come to life, and I've barely talked about the many rides and attractions available at the Magic Kingdom. And all in a day for less than twenty bucks.

Yeah, boy I would hate that.

Few of the above Disneyland moments still exists in Eisner's reduced Disneyland experience.

I would pay anything to travel back 40 years and experience those things again... anything. But I would never pay a full priced admission to enter DCA.

Other than the Animation exhibit (and Soarin' and Blast), DCA has nothing relating to the artful and reality transcendant, escapist types of experiences listed above, the reasons I (and I assume many millions of others over the last 50 years) love the truly unique environment of Disneyland, not just generic, cynical, lowest common denomintor amusement parks like DCA.

80S ERA
05-23-2002, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
I would pay anything to travel back 40 years and experience those things again... anything. But I would never pay a full priced admission to enter DCA.

Amen, merlin!

For me, I would pay anything to travel even 20 years ago. You see, the problem with everything in the 50's and 60's is that everything is in black in white. :D

80S ERA
05-23-2002, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by Marty
.....It seems to me that those who express such venom toward DCA are probably attaching a level of expectation to the DCA experience that is just plain unattainable.


Glad to hear you had a good time, Marty! I also had a blast in DCA on my first visit (AP Preview for $20). I went into the park expecting the worst and ended up having a good time from seeing new attractions for a change. Did you get to bring the kids on Redwood Creek Challenge Trail? If you didn't, it's a must! I'm almost 30 years old now and I have fun in there!

In regards to expectations -- I, on the other hand, feel it is very attainable. One only has to look as far as opposite the Pacific (Tokyo Disney Seas) in order to see the level most expect from Disney, myself included.

The so-called "venom" toward DCA has roots to these very expectations. You see, Disney has always been cutting edge in technology and unconventional thinking when it comes to theme parks and entertainment. Lately, they just haven't been themselves.

Here is an example. In the 50's and 60's, Disneyland park was like no other. They introduced to the theme park industry innovations like audioanimatronics, concept transportation, 360 movies, and many others. Today, in the year 2002, they have lowered the bar, using conventional movies, spinners, ferris wheels, exposed rollercoasters, and more movies.

I still have fun in DCA. I just wouldn't pay $45 to get in.

RStar
05-23-2002, 09:31 AM
Hey, everyone. :)

I have to admit, I can agree with just about all of you. I hate to sound like I'm ridding a fence post here, and unable to choose sides. But you know what, I have a good time at DCA. I took my father-in-law from Rhode Island there a couple of weekends ago and he liked it better than DL. In march I took some friends from England there, and they loved it. They had 4 day park hopper passes and we spent more time at DCA than DL. Last feb. I took my mom and Aunt there, they loved it just as much as DL. They were born and raised here in So. Cal. and have lived in Georgia these past ten years. They made regular yearly trips to DL from the time it opened and are big Disney fans (this is where I caught the bug!:D ).

It seems to me that people from outside CA like it more. Locals, which make up most of the APs, don't like it, in part, because CA is ordinary to them. Disney gave it the ordinary CA theme and then they put the off-the-shelf rides in there (even if it does match the theme PERFECTLY in Paradise Pier!) and there is nothing special in it for the locals. DL, when it opened was nothing but special because there was nothing like it (with the exception of Knott's- but it was nothing like DL at the time). But what is special is the WAY they captured CA! I have lived here all my life, and I love CA. I think that is why I love the theme. But I can't help but notice (being an AP for 6 years, and a regular visiter to DL sense 1962) how DL has declined, and how they could have done better with DCA.

But could they EVER top DL (even WDW doesn't top DL, there's just more of it)? Maybe, but I doubt it. Could they have done better? Defenatly. Do I enjoy DCA? Yes, but when I walk through the gate at DL, go through the tunnel and see Main Street and hear the music, it's like going home. It's like an old friend that's always there for me.

We are so desensitized by all the theme parks to choose from that what Walt did in 1955 can never have the same impact on the public. So naturally when DCA opened, being a Disney product, people expected 1955, and were dissapointed.

But I still enjoy DCA and have hopes that they will continue to improve it. I think the suits got the message, that's why they are trying to fix it. I just hope they do good on the fixes.:confused:

Marty
05-23-2002, 09:53 AM
Hey there MerlinJones

OK, OK. I will take that statement back. The depth of my ignorance concerning Disney lore is just too vast to argue the relative merits of a trip back to a Disneyland of a bygone era. And you are right; I don’t understand those who have such an emotional bond with Disney. As I made clear in my posts I have no such emotional attachment to either the park or the movies. Call me strange, but even as a kid I was never entranced by the Disney Aura. So the only reason I had for visiting Disneyland and DCA was to show my children a good time. And to that end, I wanted to share my neophyte experiences with those of you who are practiced Disney lovers. Again, I thought Disneyland 2002 (even without Splash, Big Thunder and Small World) delivered for me. My kids were delighted by the experience. And when you add to that the massive amount of fun that we had at DCA, you have (in my opinion) an entertainment package that just can’t be beat. And I’m not just talking about $45 to get into the park here. I spent 90 times that flying down and getting a decent hotel room.

Also, maybe DCA is not as “artful” or “transcendent” as the original Disneyland. But does that make it crappy – or does that just make it not as good as the park you have grown up to love and adore. But then again, I probably should thank you for keeping well clear of DCA, as well as prompting others to do the same. Maybe DCA doesn’t quite have the magic as Disneyland, but at least the lack of crowds allows what little magic exists to shine through bright and clear.

SoCalDisneyLover
05-23-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by gn2dlnd
[However, I'm disappointed that this thread isn't about DCA's rocks. DCA does have such nice rocks.
;) [/B]

And don't forget...it takes 106 Square Rocks(i.e. cinder blocks) to build a bathroom planter at DCA.

DigitalLizard
05-23-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by SoCalDisneyLover


And don't forget...it takes 106 Square Rocks(i.e. cinder blocks) to build a bathroom planter at DCA.


yeah... and when you start at the boat... it's NOT the one infront of Burger Invasion at the pier!
Man... that took us an hour and half to figure out! And the clue didn't even help us blondes!
I sat right infront of that frog eating dinner the night before... I should've known!:cool:

gn2dlnd
05-23-2002, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by HTHBellcaptain
I do think that criticism can be healthy, even if we may not agree with it. That's how Disneyland has been able to grow through the years.
I look froward to visiting DCA and finding out for myself.
and...

Originally posted by Marty
It seems to me that those who express such venom toward DCA are probably attaching a level of expectation to the DCA experience that is just plain unattainable.
I, on the other hand, have no such expectations. Disneyland does not represent anything but another entertainment choice for me.

HTHBellcaptain, Disneyland did not grow through the years because of criticism, healthy or otherwise. Disneyland didn't need criticism, it was meant from the start, and designed from the start, to be a completely immersive experience. From the moment a guest at Disneyland enters the Park through the tunnels under the Main Street Train Station, that guest is
transported into an entirely different world. The 20 foot high berm built around the Park ensures that, throughout their visit, that guest continues to experience a world unlike the one they left outside. DCA, on the other hand, is a modest effort. The entrance of DCA makes no attempt to take you into a different world, it is merely an extension of Downtown Disney. The only place DCA is more than that is the Grizzly Peak area, the part of the Park that you can see from your $315.00 a night hotel room. Current Disney management seems to take the "As long as there is imagination in the world, Disneyland will continue to grow" quote as a loophole, allowing them to make a "good enough" effort, and decide what to fix later. All that said, this gets back to the issue of value. DCA should not cost the same as Disneyland! If Disneyland is a $45.00 value, DCA is certainly no more than a $20.00 value. When DCA first opened, I entered the Park at their $43.00 admission price. I saw everything there was to see in less than 4 hours. You may well imagine that I was less than happy. I'd also like to point out that I avoided reading any criticisms of the new Park before I went. Everything I've said about the differences in the value between the two Parks was apparent to me at that first visit. I hope that, armed with these caveats, you enjoy your first visit to DCA more than I did. I've enjoyed DCA on subsequent visits, using my
annual pass. I'll get some food, look at the scenery, and then head across the way to Disneyland. Unfortunately, they got an extra $100.00 out of me to add the second Park to my pass, now that it's standard on APs I feel taken advantage of.

Marty, again I'd like to say that I'm glad you and your kids had fun at DCA. The fact that Disneyland represents nothing more than another entertainment choice for you is telling. I believe this is now the standard that Disney is shooting for. Growing up watching The Wonderful World Of Disney, going to Disneyland as a guest in the 60's and 70's, and then getting a job there when I graduated high school in 1980, I've always known Disney to choose to do things better than they had to. With DCA they have secured their place with Magic Mountain, Knott's and Universal as just another thing to do while you're in town. As to the idea that the level of expectation DCA has been held up to is unattainable, I'd like to refer you to this link.
http://www.mouseplanet.com/tokyo/
Tokyo Disney Seas meets and exceeds every expectation you could possibly have for a new Disney Theme Park. It's as if they got an amazing new Disney animated feature, while we got stuck with Cinderella II. Which, I suppose, is great if you just want to stick it in the VCR to keep the kids out of your hair. It's just not what I want or expect when I see the Disney name.

Uncle Dick
05-23-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by gn2dlnd
HTHBellcaptain, Disneyland did not grow through the years because of criticism, healthy or otherwise. Disneyland didn't need criticism, it was meant from the start, and designed from the start, to be a completely immersive experience.
I don't know about that… I mean, if an attraction is constantly ignored or derided (like the Country Bear Jamboree and perhaps to some extent, the Swiss Family Treehouse) Disney's going to notice it's lack of popularity and replace it with something else. I know a lot of this has to do with turnstyle count rather than vocal criticism, but I suppose "voting with your body" is, in a way, a form of criticism (i.e. not many people visit this attraction because it's not worth their time).

Matterhorn Fan
05-23-2002, 05:12 PM
criticism n. 1. an act of passing judgement as to the merits of anything. 2. an act of passing severe judgement; censure. 3. an unfavorable comment or judgement. 4. the act of occupation of analyzing and evaluating a literary or artistic work, musical or dramatic performance, etc. 5. a critique. 6. any of various methods of studying texts or documents for the purpose of dting them, evaluating their authenticity, etc.

Most people commonly presume that "criticism" is always synonymous with "censure." While that is one meaning, criticism is not always negative.

The merits of Disneyland have always been and will always be evaluated and critiqued. If they weren't, appropriate changes, improvements, revisions, etc. would never have been made, and we would all be falling off pack mules in Frontierland.

SoCalDisneyLover
05-23-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Uncle Dick

I mean, if an attraction is constantly ignored or derided (like the Country Bear Jamboree and perhaps to some extent, the Swiss Family Treehouse) Disney's going to notice it's lack of popularity and replace it with something else.

I didn't realize that Country Bear Jamboree was unpopular. I always got a kick out of the show, and found the animatronics to be cool. Granted...it wasn't the E-Ticket attraction of Splash Mountain or Matterhorn, but it was an enjoyable show and I would think was a hit with the kids. But I guess not. When I walk into Critter Country for the first time again in the coming days...I will certainly wish it were there to check out for 15 minutes. (-:

Oh...and in reference to your closing quote, I must say that Natalie Portman is a babe. Gotta love those hairdoos. :-)

Uncle Dick
05-23-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by SoCalDisneyLover


I didn't realize that Country Bear Jamboree was unpopular. I always got a kick out of the show, and found the animatronics to be cool. Granted...it wasn't the E-Ticket attraction of Splash Mountain or Matterhorn, but it was an enjoyable show and I would think was a hit with the kids. But I guess not. When I walk into Critter Country for the first time again in the coming days...I will certainly wish it were there to check out for 15 minutes. (-:
I, too, loved the Country Bear Vacation Hoedown (never saw the original) but it was never busy, even on the most crowded of days. We're talking Mr. Lincoln sized crowds here, and there're plenty of people here on MousePad who despise the Bear Band.

HTHBellcaptain
05-23-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by gn2dlnd

HTHBellcaptain, Disneyland did not grow through the years because of criticism, healthy or otherwise. Disneyland didn't need criticism, it was meant from the start, and designed from the start, to be a completely immersive experience. From the moment a guest at Disneyland enters the Park through the tunnels under the Main Street Train Station, that guest is
transported into an entirely different world.

I agree that Disneyland was a great concept from the very beginning. And that it is a much more ambitious concept than DCA.

But Disneyland did grow through the years because of criticism. On DL's opening day there was a lot of criticism. Walt took those criticisms and helped to overcome the negative press that he had received. Remember Walt and the gang referred to opening day as Black Sunday for a reason. When guests and friends started mentioning that the original tomorrowland was getting out of date, he sent the Imagineers back to the drawing board.

While I in no way want to compare DL with DCA, I am encouraged that upper management has made some attempts to add things to DCA to answer it's criticism. Tower of Terror and Fliks are a great example.

Now, I do think that Walt was quicker in trying to fix and prevent problems than current management, but I am glad that they are at least listening a little bit.