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jschein
10-26-2006, 10:06 AM
I love Disneyland, and have for 30 years. BUT...

They have got to do something to deal with the crowds.

Many of you live in Southern California and have APs and are content to get on a few rides a day and stand in line for an hour and a half for a meal because you know you can come back tomorrow or next week or next month. For my family it costs about $2000 just to get to Anaheim, another $150/night for a cheap hotel (I have a wife and 4 kids), and about $200/day in park tickets. I can't just go on a weekend, I have to take time off of work and pull my kids out of school.

For that cash outlay and level of effort I have high expectations. As a kid twenty-five or thirty years ago those expectations were met every time I stepped on to the property. I got to interact with the characters I loved, ride the rides (with rarely more than a 20-minute wait), and just absorb the atmosphere -- and that was during the summer.

I just returned from bringing my family to DLR where I got to stand in line for 90 minutes at the Hungry Bear for dinner, wait for two hours for a decent spot to see the fireworks, spend more than two hours at the princess area trying to let my girls have a memorable experience, and on, and on, and on. Last time I checked, this was supposedly the off-season.

I have a picture of my sister and I running up to meet Mickey Mouse on Main Street. From a distance. Without standing in line. He was just there, interacting with the people, shaking hands, making memories. Those days are apparently long, long gone.

Am I the only one who feels that Disneyland has lost so much of what historically has made it such a magical experience?

adriennek
10-26-2006, 10:19 AM
I just returned from bringing my family to DLR where I got to stand in line for 90 minutes at the Hungry Bear for dinner, wait for two hours for a decent spot to see the fireworks, spend more than two hours at the princess area trying to let my girls have a memorable experience, and on, and on, and on. Last time I checked, this was supposedly the off-season.


Was this a weekday? I really haven't found it to be that bad on weekdays. And I'm an AP from SoCal but I have three little kids. We still have to do a lot of rides when we go and we can't spend too much time eating.

Adrienne

3894
10-26-2006, 10:21 AM
Am I the only one who feels that Disneyland has lost so much of what historically has made it such a magical experience?

I'm sorry, jschein. It can be so, so frustrating. Disneyland is an expensive vacation and a person has a right to just want to relax and have fun.

I've been going to Disneyland infrequently since the mid-1960s. Even waaay back in the day, we ate really early to avoid the lines and went back to the hotel to swim in the afternoon to avoid the afternoon crowds. Fast passes make things a whole lot better than in the past.

Edited to add: You asked how to experience the magic under these conditions. It's probably easier if kids are old enough to go with the flow. When I took my daughters two years ago, they were 12 and 15. We didn't have any particular characters we had to see so we were happy to run into Pooh or whoever. With a handful of exceptions, there were no attractions we absolutely had to do. We just bopped around and enjoyed and keep in mind that my kids have gotten two shots at Disneyland so far in their lives. It is expensive, far, and there are other places to visit.

LostBoy02
10-26-2006, 10:26 AM
Disneyland is just as magical as it always has been imo. Its just now you have to be a little more intelligent about the way you go about working the park.

Using the fast pass system to its fullest potential allows the extremely dedicated to get through the entire park in one day. Knowing the ins and outs of when to ride what rides and taking full advantage of priority seating for breakfast/lunch/dinner are all mandatory if you want to have a great time.

While it does take a little more planning and a little practice to get the timing right, Disneyland has more to offer then it ever has in the past.

Rkkm
10-26-2006, 10:36 AM
I absolutely agree. The magic of the place is gone .. and most likely forever.

Now those who never experienced it, as you and I once did, will most likely disagree. But, believe me, it used to be a joy, not a drudge to go to Disneyland. You never had to plan on how to avoid crowds, how to avoid the ride lines, figure out how to beat the food and parking mobs, et cetera. I know this hard to believe but .. you just hopped in the car and went and had a crowd-free ball, even on holidays.

I have been visiting Disneyland multiple times a year since the week it opened in 1955. I have watched it grow into a mob scene as Southern California has become jammed full of people, and our society has given a wink and a nod to living waaaay above your means. (For those of you who don't understand how crammed full SoCal is can get it from this statistic: Maywood, a one-mile square city about 10 miles from Disneyland, now has a population of 45,000. I am not making this up! I will not go into where many of these people came from as it is considered politically incorrect to do so.)

My life-long pals and relatives .. all of whom have been visiting Disneyland since it opened.. continue to marvel at how many nice, ordinary people plunk down the huge expenditure (starting with the mind-boggling $11 to park) for a day in the Park. There is either just a huge amount of money out there that we don't know about or people are living beyond their means.

These same life-long friends and relatives now laughingly call our trips there "The Disney Death March" in reference to the slogging along in the heat that is required to get from one place to another in the middle of the crowds.

And the sad thing is that we see so many little kids who just simply are not having a good experience because they are packed in the crowds and long lines.

I simply don't know what can be done. It is sad. But it is the way things are.

DianeM
10-26-2006, 10:40 AM
You aren't alone. I felt the same way on my recent trip. I was suprised at the crowds, even on weekdays during the slow season. The management has been working hard to increase attendance during the off season. They have been providing promotional offers to locals and giving free passes to people who sign up for a credit card. It's working. There are a lot of people at the parks. Meanwhile, they have been having hiring problems, because they don't want to pay decent wages. They have been cutting corners in a lot of ways, and it shows. The goal of management seems to be to make as much profit as possible, not to give the customer the best experience possible. You can still have a premium experience, if you are willing to pay for it. Things like priority seating, special tours, early entry, and character meet and greet meals can be had for a price, and they will enhance your experience. I think that DL is a wonderful place to visit if you can afford it, and if you are willing to make a few sacrifices (like good seats for the fireworks) to avoid the worst of the crowds, but I'm beginning to really wonder if it's a good place to go if you don't want to spend a lot of money and effort trying to have fun. I enjoyed the park on our recent trip, but the best part of our trip was our visit to San Diego Zoo's Wild Animal Park, not Disneyland. This isn't the first time I felt this way, by the way. The last few trips were not as magical as I could have wished. I simply attributed it to various problems on my part, but I'm beginning to wonder ... is it possible to have a relaxing, enjoyable vacation at Disneyland without spending a fortune?




Am I the only one who feels that Disneyland has lost so much of what historically has made it such a magical experience?

Bytebear
10-26-2006, 10:49 AM
How to reduce crowds? Here are my ideas in order of importance.

1. Get people to go to DCA. That park is so dead that they close it at 6 PM. This is crazy. You are forcing everyone to Disneyland at night. Add a big night show to DCA that draws them in similar to Fantasmic. Then you force people to choose which they want to see and you divide the crowd.

2. Expand Downtown Disney and add more family activities there. Get people out of the park more. Encourage them to buy generic Disney stuff at the World of Disney, and leave the shops inside Disneyland to park only merchandise or specialty items.

3. Get rid of fastpass. This will open the kiosk areas to foot traffic, and it will force more people to be in line, rather than wandering the park. It will also make standby lines go faster. Now, if you are a fastpass junkie, and know how to work the system, you can have a great day at the park even with huge crowds, but try going on Peter Pan sometime, and then decide if you like the system. More lines means shorter lines in the end.

4. Stop selling annual passes or raise the prices. As an AP holder, I don't like the idea, but if I had to pay $80 every time I go to Disneyland, I would go about once a year, rather than once a week. I did switch to Deluxe from Premium this year as the price wasn't worth the perks.

5. Add another park. This would do it, but I think you have to get DCA on track first.

6. Expand Disneyland. This I think is the worst idea. The park has a charm to it's small size and there really isn't a lot of room to grow anyway.

--Addendum--

7. Make a rule that you can only bring in small strollers. Those huge "Hummer" strollers have got to go. Do you really need to bring half the child's toys to the park?

Bytebear
10-26-2006, 11:02 AM
How to reduce crowds? Here are my ideas in order of importance.

1. Get people to go to DCA. That park is so dead that they close it at 6 PM. This is crazy. You are forcing everyone to Disneyland at night. Add a big night show to DCA that draws them in similar to Fantasmic. Then you force people to choose which they want to see and you divide the crowd.

2. Expand Downtown Disney and add more family activities there. Get people out of the park more. Encourage them to buy generic Disney stuff at the World of Disney, and leave the shops inside Disneyland to park only merchandise or specialty items.

3. Get rid of fastpass. This will open the kiosk areas to foot traffic, and it will force more people to be in line, rather than wandering the park. It will also make standby lines go faster. Now, if you are a fastpass junkie, and know how to work the system, you can have a great day at the park even with huge crowds, but try going on Peter Pan sometime, and then decide if you like the system. More lines means shorter lines in the end.

4. Stop selling annual passes or raise the prices. As an AP holder, I don't like the idea, but if I had to pay $80 every time I go to Disneyland, I would go about once a year, rather than once a week. I did switch to Deluxe from Premium this year as the price wasn't worth the perks.

5. Add another park. This would do it, but I think you have to get DCA on track first.

6. Expand Disneyland. This I think is the worst idea. The park has a charm to it's small size and there really isn't a lot of room to grow anyway.

LostBoy02
10-26-2006, 11:02 AM
What I think that many people of the older generation fail to realize is that the population of the US in 1955 was only 166mil. Today, the American population has reached over 300MIL! That alone forever changes the landscape of EVERYTHING not just Disneyland. Instead of complaining about how things used to be, adapt to the way things are. We're never going to be able to help the fact that our country has almost doubled in size since your first trips to DL, but we can take advantage of the new options weve been given to help adapt to it.

Simple planning and a little know how go a long way to retaining the Disney magic you speak of.

DEADmenTELLnoTALES
10-26-2006, 11:13 AM
What I think that many people of the older generation fail to realize is that the population of the US in 1955 was only 166mil. Today, the American population has reached over 300MIL! That alone forever changes the landscape of EVERYTHING not just Disneyland. Instead of complaining about how things used to be, adapt to the way things are. We're never going to be able to help the fact that our country has almost doubled in size since your first trips to DL, but we can take advantage of the new options weve been given to help adapt to it.

Simple planning and a little know how go a long way to retaining the Disney magic you speak of.

such a good point

kristinhawk
10-26-2006, 11:21 AM
Pardon my interruption, as a non "old-timer." I grew up in the midwest, my first trip to d-land was at age 19, so I only have the past 12 years to use as reference.

I'm now 31 and live in AZ with DH and 2 small kids (infant and almost 3 year old). For the past 5 years we've made one annual 5-7 day trip, usually the first or second week of November, and on each and every trip have always had a FANTASTIC time, with plenty of *magic* to go around. We meet up with relatives from CA - which includes another pair of 30-somethings, and a 14, 9 and 7 year old - they concur. It's a great vacation. We take it slow, eat at off-times, plan for it to be crowded (and often, are happily surprised that it's not) and just stay cool and have fun. Sometimes there are lines, grumpy people, or whatever - but it's disneyland, not magical land of perfection. Also, it's 2006, not 1955. Things change, and yeah - change is rough.

If you don't have fun at disneyland anymore, why do you still go?

Rkkm
10-26-2006, 11:48 AM
What I think that many people of the older generation fail to realize is that the population of the US in 1955 was only 166mil. Today, the American population has reached over 300MIL! That alone forever changes the landscape of EVERYTHING not just Disneyland. Instead of complaining about how things used to be, adapt to the way things are. We're never going to be able to help the fact that our country has almost doubled in size since your first trips to DL, but we can take advantage of the new options weve been given to help adapt to it.

Simple planning and a little know how go a long way to retaining the Disney magic you speak of.

Every member I know in the Older Generation is acutely aware of the almost doubling of population of our country .. and our area. In the 1960s, for instance, Long Beach had a population of 250K and today it is 485K, even though not an inch of land has been added to the city's size. We, of all people, know EXACTLY what it was like and can adequately compare it today.

The older DL was simply better because it was less crowded. The DL magic we knew ... and you didn't .. will never be there again. It was much, much better than it is today.

That said, the ways in which DL manages the mobs is jaw-droppingly impressive. The entrance to the parking structures from I-5 is amazing! But I remember being able to drive and park almost next to the ticket booths and entrances. The serpentine lines that keep you moving are impressive. But I remember when they were straight shots. Fastpasses and Priority Seating are great! But we of the Older Generation remember when those weren't necessary. And that was when DL was truly a magical place.

Yes, now you have to plan and plot to go most places in Southern California and elsewhere. But life was much better when you didn't. (Like driving to Yosemite on a whim and getting a nice campsite on arrival - reservations were unheard of.) Even though we have adapted quite well, we still knew a better place and miss it very much. When you get older, you will understand.

marklodi
10-26-2006, 11:54 AM
Things like priority seating, special tours, early entry, and character meet and greet meals can be had for a price, and they will enhance your experience.

Priority seating is free. No extra price. Just like FastPass is free to use.

As for early entry, that is part of most multi-day Park Hopper "bonus" tickets now, and I don't believe costs anything extra. I could be wrong, but I don't think you can buy a multi-day Park Hopper without getting the Early Entry. I know it's not an option on the Disneyland ticket site. Now single-day tickets you buy at the park, those don't come with early entry.

Tours and Character Meals do indeed cost extra.

LostBoy02
10-26-2006, 12:03 PM
The older DL was simply better because it was less crowded. The DL magic we knew ... and you didn't .. will never be there again. It was much, much better than it is today.


Theres no need to be bitter, you have your magical memories and I have mine. While you may feel that crowds of people are a bad thing i enjoy them. Sharing my experience with others who feel the same way about things is great in its own right. If you think that less people = magic thats your opinion. I disagree. If you dont enjoy DL then dont go, no ones forcing you to. Thats one less person in line for the Jungle Cruise :p

mommy-san
10-26-2006, 12:27 PM
um, whats that saying about helping those who help themselves? Our first trip to DLR was last October. We travelled 12 hours by plane, spent $5000 to be there, waited in line EVERYWHERE in heat I have no desire to experience again. With that we had a grumpy 5 year old and a 1 year old who wouldn't nap. Guess what? i LOVED it all. Its called a vacation and its our jobs as parents to make the best out of it, no matter the cicumstances. Its busy, yes. Crazy even. But so is Mcdonalds at lunch hour in my home town. For me, Disneyland will always be full of magic and wonder. So much so we went back in February and will be going again this January. From Northern Alberta...quite an investment in time and money to get there.
I understand your anger... but if I were you I'd hurry up and get used to it. It's not gonna change now.

Malcon10t
10-26-2006, 12:44 PM
I've been experiencing the park since I was a child, back in the early 60s. The park has changed over the years, but as for losing the magic, no. There are aspects of the park from the 60s and 70s that I miss, but there are others that are new that I love. Should we go back to a Wed-Sun park hours, with the park closed on Mon and Tues? Close the gates at 6 on Wed and Thurs? That was part of the magic also. While the characters no longer can just roam, it is nice to know where to find them. I am really surprised at the 90 minute wait for Hungry Bear, I've never waited longer than 20 minutes, and that is always during peak season. Heck, July 17, 2005, we were able to walk up for dinner!

Malcon10t
10-26-2006, 12:46 PM
Theres no need to be bitter, you have your magical memories and I have mine. While you may feel that crowds of people are a bad thing i enjoy them. Sharing my experience with others who feel the same way about things is great in its own right. If you think that less people = magic thats your opinion. I disagree. If you dont enjoy DL then dont go, no ones forcing you to. Thats one less person in line for the Jungle Cruise :pYou know, thats how I feel! I LOVE the week between Christmas and NYE, there's tons of people there, but, *I* have a blast! I can't imagine going on a POTC boat with only a 1/2 boat and no one in front of me.

olivia3boys
10-26-2006, 12:51 PM
I actually feel the opposite. (I'm a long time lurker BTW, first time poster).

I grew up going to Disneyland only on weekends or summer or holidays, and only for one day at a time, since my parents would not take us out of school, and wouldn't (or couldn't) pay for a multi-day pass.

This would be in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. The lines were always HORRIBLE and I therefore vowed to only take my (future) children to Disneyland in the off season.

I'm 37 now, and love Disneyland, and have been taking my 4 children there for 4 days every November for the past 8 years (we're leaving next Tues!). They are now 10, 8, 4, and 1.

I take them out of school (they miss one day only as their school is off Nov 2nd and 3rd every year) and we always have a FABULOUS time, with short lines (I do a lot of planning and use Ridemax and child switch and fastpass and every other touring strategy everyone knows here).

It's no comparison to the Disneyland of my childhood--trying to do everything in one day the day after Christmas. Standing in line for Pirates for 90 minutes, etc. No offense to my mother; she just didn't know. And there was no fastpass then to speed things up. Or child-switch (or if there was child switch, she didn't know about it).

So therefore, I feel Disneyland is much better now, and from my perspective, actually more enjoyable, than it was 10-30 years ago!

(Fantasmic! and fireworks are still scary crowded though--but I'll take crowds over lines any day.)

olivia3boys
10-26-2006, 01:05 PM
Oh--just wanted to add--I do agree completely with you about the counter service waits--therefore I only make PS reservations and eat only in full service restaurants now, because I figured out a few years ago that while the wait for Indiana Jones in the off season may be 5 minutes, a counter service wait will still be 40 minutes.

As for the characters, my children don't care whether or not they get an autograph or whatever and we never wait in any line for a character.

[Ironically, though, my 3 year old last year ended up getting Mickey Mouse playing with him all by himself (hugging him, etc.) for literally 10 minutes (we happened to be hanging around at the empty Main St. train station and MM just appeared out of nowhere) last year, at least before the other guests started noticing and came charging up the stairs with those darn autograph books.]

Anyway, so my advice for next year for you: make PS reservations to avoid those meal crowds/waiting/hassles. And you don't really need to wait 2 hours for the fireworks. One hour or even 1/2 hour should be plenty. I personally don't think they need to be seen at the hub. Along Main St. is still spectacular.

disneyperson
10-26-2006, 01:18 PM
There's been no loss of magic for us and we've been when it has been very crowded. (summer and Christmas 2005)
Of course, our DL style is extremely laid back.
I for one am glad to see the crowds. They indicate that my favorite place is in a healthy place financially.

daisydog
10-26-2006, 01:40 PM
When I was a kid we had a choice every summer of either going to Knotts or Disneyland. Pretty much I always chose Knotts - just loved that log ride. DL wasn't as much fun to me.

30+ year later, I absolutely love DL and I think it is better now than when I was a kid. However, I always plan my trips when the crowds are expected to be lower and the weather cooler or else I don't think I could stand it!

FoodLover
10-26-2006, 01:42 PM
I love Disneyland, and have for 30 years. BUT...

They have got to do something to deal with the crowds.

As others have pointed out, Southern California has a MUCH bigger population than it used to, and most people who visit Disneyland are locals. Also, Disneyland now sells a huge number of Annual Passes, which keeps the crowd levels high year-round.

I agree with another poster that the mega-strollers (and the sheer number of strollers) make it seem more crowded. I know I'm going to sound like an old fogey, but when I was a child in the 60s, able-bodied kids older than 3 did NOT ride in a stroller. Now I see 9-year-olds in strollers.

Lines started getting longer after Disney stopped selling individual tickets for each ride and changed to the all-inclusive tickets. It's a simple fact of life -- when you had to buy tickets for each attraction, you were a lot more selective about which ones you rode.

However, I can attest that the attraction queues could be long even in the 60s, particularly in the summer and on weekends. In fact, my earliest memory of Disneyland is of being so short that I was looking at the back of sunburned adult legs while we waited in what seemed to be the world's longest line. I remember being hot, tired, thirsty, cranky and sick of people bumping into me.

The lines were super-long for months after big attractions like Haunted Mansion and Space Mountain opened for the first time. I remember being thrilled when I was able to attend an after-hours preview for Indiana Jones, which meant much shorter lines than usual -- and we still waited 2 hours to ride it.

Anyway, I don't think Disney's going to change anything. It is making money hand over fist. Apparently the crowds don't bother enough people to keep them away.

Mary
MouseSavers.com

PirateSmile
10-26-2006, 02:21 PM
I kinda like crowds. It may just be because that's all I've ever been around in DL, but I think it's nice to see so many people having fun. I think it kind of adds to the magic, really. Some people can be really rude but I've just learned to laugh it off. Even if the only ride I get to go on during my stay is the Jungle Cruise, there's always something else to enjoy there.

DianeM
10-26-2006, 02:34 PM
As far as I know, priority seating is only available for the sit down restaurnats in the park. They tend to be among the more expensive eating options. Early entry is free with most ticket options, but not with many discout ticket packages.


Priority seating is free. No extra price. Just like FastPass is free to use.

kikid
10-26-2006, 02:40 PM
I've been going to DL since the early 60's...."lost it's magic", I think not! I'm just as excited to go today as I was so many years ago. My husband loves going when it's crowded (and he is not a Disney nut).;)
Hoping you can look beyond yesterday, and find happiness again in the future:)