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olegc
10-03-2006, 07:13 AM
As rumored on another website - I think the chiefs in Burbank may have gone too far. Supposedly Tom Sawyers island will be transformed next year to Jack Sparrows island/hideout. all of the elements will change - including the foliage. Gone will be the middle america trees and brush - in will come tropical palms and beach growth.

While I am not fully opposed to change and the thought of this island is fun - it COMPLETELY ruins the overall theming and design elements that go into a theme park. Right now - when you are in NOS and look toward big THunder Mountain - the entire landscape is correctly formulated - rivers of america, riverboats, western uS, etc. By changing the island the whole big picture look goes away All that external design and the sense of "being in this period of time/place" goes away - and that is bad theme park design.

In fact - it appears that execs in Burbank look at ways to capitalize on popularity at the expense of long term design. The focus on individual attractions on their own, without thinking about the overall aesthetics of the surrounding park, is a slippery slope.

I don't mind it - but i am worried where this is going (in fact nemo/subs in tomorrowland kind of suffers from the same issue).

doombuggy driver
10-03-2006, 07:40 AM
Sounds like an interesting rumor!

Darkbeer
10-03-2006, 07:42 AM
Here is a link to the column mnetioned above...

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al100306a.htm

I found this very interesting...




This was a classic example of Lasseter taking the blueprints home with him for the weekend, and coming back on Monday with a much bigger and better idea. The end result was that the 30 Million dollars that had been budgeted for the 2006 Sunshine Plaza redo was kept in the bank and the backhoes and painting crews were called off. Over the course of the spring and early summer John sat in on several key planning meetings and was part of the planning group created to tackle what is now called "The DCA Problem."

The end result, after much work and even some bickering amongst the WDI divas, is a broader DCA master plan that dwarfs the phased Placemaking plan. The budget John Lasseter has now shepherded through the WDI design process has swelled north of 650 million, to be spent over the course of just over five years. For those keeping score at home, that figure is almost as much as the entire park cost when it opened to underwhelming results in early '01!

3894
10-03-2006, 08:42 AM
Please let this just be a rumor.

MammaSilva
10-03-2006, 08:45 AM
Can anyone say "Swiss Family Treehouse" :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

olegc
10-03-2006, 08:52 AM
the story goes on to say that this is a grea shot in the arm for a part of the park that needed upgrades - not just for popularity but for facilities too. There again I agree and disagree. The park always needs updates and changes in order to keep it fresh - but I know lots of kids - mine included - that just love to run around that island as is... they don't need to be "told" what it is about. they just love simple play.

My longer term concern is what this may mean for the direction. While Lassiter has carte blanche and the big budget plans for DCA - is he allowed any say at Disneyland when it comes to the "pirate" franchise.... or do the marketing and finance types have control of that for the long term.

3894
10-03-2006, 08:54 AM
How about Disney films an top-notch "Tom Sawyer" with A-list actors for theatrical release and we keep Tom Sawyer's Island at Disneyland.

dohgusgus
10-03-2006, 09:01 AM
Wow! I'm excited for it! Ever since I was little I found Tom Sawyer Island boring. We took my little sister ONCE on her first trip about 4 years ago and we were even dragging our feet then. I

it's sad in a way though because it is an original part of Disneyland but I think it's time for a renovation. I don't often see people flocking to TSI and it would be really cool if they expanded the Pirates theme because who doesn't like Pirates?! http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/socal_pickid/Disney/Forums%20icons/pirate.gif

But I understand others dislikes about it, heck I might not even like it when they're done (that is if they ruin the New Orleans square theme) But if they mesh it with NOS it could look really really cool. TSI is a good size location for another "land" or area of DL and I don't think its really being used to its potential at the moment.

backsthepack
10-03-2006, 09:03 AM
Oh I love the idea!! While it is sad that parts of original Disney will be gone, it is a great idea for a change. I find the island borning as it is now, even our 7 year old gets bored quickly there. I welcome the change and will look forward to it if it is true.

DisneyDustin22
10-03-2006, 09:05 AM
Changing with the times. Kids don't grow up on Tom Sawyer and other classics much anymore. They grow up on people like Jack Sparrow and whatever the pop culture phenom is at the time for them. So while I am somewhat against such a change, I can understand why it could be done and in part have to agree. Same with the Subs. Go up to most kids today and talk about 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and they'll look at you like you're nuts. Talk about Finding Nemo? They light up. Same goes with Monsters Inc., although you could talk about SSL to pretty much anyone and they would think you were nuts. ;) Country Bear Jamboree? Now just a big pile of Pooh.

Times change. People change. The park falls into that as well. Tom Sawyer may be a classic to most of us, and will continue to always be. But with each year that passes, the further into history it falls. We can only blame technology for that.

A lot of people say, "Well it's not what Walt would have done." I disagree. Walt was a very smart business man and I'm sure he knew just as well as anyone, that his park would continue to change with time. Olegc I'm in the same boat as you. While you're right in saying that a majority of kids probably don't even care what the island is themed about, they just want to play. This will allow Disney to market a new area of the park. More attendance, more shopping, more this more that. I wouldnt be surprised if we see Pirates merch land on that island as well.

Leap for Joy
10-03-2006, 09:24 AM
While I am not fully opposed to change and the thought of this island is fun - it COMPLETELY ruins the overall theming and design elements that go into a theme park. Right now - when you are in NOS and look toward big THunder Mountain - the entire landscape is correctly formulated - rivers of america, riverboats, western uS, etc. By changing the island the whole big picture look goes away All that external design and the sense of "being in this period of time/place" goes away - and that is bad theme park design.

I agree. I'm not opposed to changing it for itself, but I don't like what it would do to the overall feeling of that area of the park. Too bad they didn't think of this and insert a scene that looks like the current Tom Sawyer's Island into the 3rd movie.

SANDYMARIE
10-03-2006, 09:32 AM
I'm for it... If they put an E ticket ride in!:D

MadasaHatter
10-03-2006, 09:57 AM
All right here is my two cents worth....

First off I am an actor and think that Johnny Depp is amazing I loved the first PIRATES MOVIE (the second was a trailer for the third....it had better be good)

That said, I think that TOM SAWYER ISLAND should be left as is. Disney should indeed produce a TOM SAWYER film and then promote TSI to promote that neglected or never visited area but to spend money on re-doing something that is already there???? I would rather see that money spent somewhere else, preserve the only place in Californis where you can visit two states (Disney annexed that Island to the state of Missouri) because by the time they get that Island turned around to Pirates of the Carribean the frenzy will be all over. Time to move on to the NEXT thing.

And A. A. Milnes beloved characters would be dust if Disney didn't take them over and promote WINNIE THE POOH. In this business that we call show it is up to the entertainers to entertain and promote things. The POC may be an exciting story but it will never hold a candle to the power of TOM SAWYER AND HUCK FINN.

Look, if they switch over TSI then so be it. I will embrace it whole heartedly but I agree that it would look weird with all of the western theming. Maybe it is indeed time for a change but there are so many areas that could be improved a few more attractions in TOON TOWN, an ALaddin dark ride in Adventureland, Do SOMETHING ANYTHING with Innovations (even tear it down and put a different ride in) do something with the people mover track, change the destination on STAR TOURS or put something else there...etc.etc.etc..... Put some more attractions in DCA especially something from SF please, I mean come on.....

Here are the things that should stay in my opinion in homage to the original park....
Rivers of America with the River Boat
Train
Jungle Cruise
Mr. Toad (it is the only one after all)
Story Book Land (update it as often as you like though)
Main St. USA (still my favorite land of all....yes I am a big dork)
The Castle but I guess I really don't need to say that.....

If you disagree with me....remember....I am quite mad. (as a hatter...that is)

JookyG
10-03-2006, 10:20 AM
This is the best re-theming idea I've heard for the park so far (unless there's something good brewing over in Tomorrowland).

Razing all the foliage on TSI and replacing it with more tropical trees and plants would be perfectly suitable for that part of the park. Look at where the real New Orleans sits--right on the edge of the real Carribean! How does that not fit??

Just like Swiss Family Treehouse, TSI nowadays only has appeal to the nostalgia crowd. It would be far better for the health and future of the park to retheme it with something that will appeal to current generations.

Besides, much of the stuff that made it great has been ripped out anyway, due to lawsuit fears. It's just a sad shell of its former self, a gutted playground that's really only useful now as a place for the kids to work off a sugar high.

I'd rather see something new take its place that makes real use of the space. I'm surprised the island hasn't been reclaimed before now, considering how "un-PC" those Mark Twain stories are.

wardkimballfan
10-03-2006, 10:20 AM
:mad:

Bad idea. Dumb idea. Stupid idea. Whoever suggested it deserves a kick in the shin.

mistofviolets
10-03-2006, 10:23 AM
No! Tom Sawyer Island should stay. Update it? Sure. Maybe even add a walk in, so you don't have to wait for rafts. A lovely underwater tunnel, perhaps? Update facilities, etc. Create a treasure hunt with sticker rewards. They could easily rig a computer that created random map plans to a variety of set "treasure" spots. Didn't Tom and Huck look for pirates gold? Or was that just the movie?

I didn't make it to TSI last visit, but I love knowing its there...a secret hideaway and something that was in Walt's original plans. If that goes...what next? The Mark Twain? Matterhorn? Transportation up main street? None of those connect to disney movies.

bassett1976
10-03-2006, 10:27 AM
It sounds like a cool idea. The interactive pirate museum, could be fun. Are they going to have Davy Jones walking around???

I think the hardest part was that the area is becoming a new land, Pirateville. I'm not sure I like that idea.

wardkimballfan
10-03-2006, 10:27 AM
Look at where the real New Orleans sits--right on the edge of the real Carribean! How does that not fit??The real New Orleans sits at the edge of the Gulf of Mexico, not the Caribbean Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean

Why would the Mark Twain Riverboat go around a Caribbean island? Riverboats do not travel on the open sea. Sailing ships, however, do (or at least did) travel up large rivers (like the Mississippi) from time to time.

JookyG
10-03-2006, 10:37 AM
Whatever. It was close enough for Walt Disney himself to put an attraction called Pirates of the CARRIBEAN in New Orleans Square. TSI's still a waste of space in its current state.

The best part of this idea is that maybe they'd move the pirate band over to the island so it's not competing with the jazz bands and ruining my lunch at Cafe Orleans :D

wardkimballfan
10-03-2006, 10:58 AM
Whatever.So tell us what it's like to live amongst the French-speaking Eskimos up there in Washington. You guys are right on the North Atlantic, so you must eat a lot of coconuts, right?

Rhiannon8404
10-03-2006, 11:11 AM
How about Disney films an top-notch "Tom Sawyer" with A-list actors for theatrical release and we keep Tom Sawyer's Island at Disneyland.
This is a great idea! Kids aren't encouraged to enjoy the Classics these days. Disney could totally help with this. They could do (or re-do in some cases) Tom Sawyer, Treasure Island, Swiss Family Robinson with current popular live actors. Who knows, kids might even start reading the books again. It worked with the Chronicles of Narnia.

Rapunzelthorn
10-03-2006, 12:35 PM
While I am not fully opposed to change and the thought of this island is fun - it COMPLETELY ruins the overall theming and design elements that go into a theme park. Right now - when you are in NOS and look toward big THunder Mountain - the entire landscape is correctly formulated - rivers of america, riverboats, western uS, etc. By changing the island the whole big picture look goes away All that external design and the sense of "being in this period of time/place" goes away - and that is bad theme park design.

Sorry, I was trying to quote.

Regarding the above quote, it is not really any different from being able to see the Matterhorn from Main Street! How congruent is that? I'm not saying I support the possible changes, but I'm sure there are other things in Disneyland that don't make perfect sense and we all overlook or are used to.

Shadowcat
10-03-2006, 01:42 PM
I agree that TSI needs to be redone or cleaned up or at least repaired (aren't they using the fort as a storage area?).

While I can understand the temptation to theme it with Pirates, since that movie seems to be the biggest thing Disney has going for them lately, there are other options.

If they want to keep tradition and pirates, why don't they re-theme TSI as Neverland? They could keep the classic feeling and the pirate feeling all at once.

mckygirl99
10-03-2006, 02:12 PM
I think it is a great idea! I never go over there b/c it bores me to tears. It definately needs a makeover and what better than a pirate theme! I know alot of people do not like the pirate invasion but I truly welcome it. I have loved POTC for many years and am so happy with all the pirate changes. I vote YES, YES, YES! :D

Bytebear
10-03-2006, 02:44 PM
They may not be able to tear down the trees. It is a wildlife bird santuary after all. Also, I dont see why palm trees have to be used on the island. I say rebuild the old fort and re-theme it as a British port. Keep the front of the island the same, and put the pirate hideaway on the back side of the island. The caves could be either Tom Sawyer or Pirates, I don't care. Isn't there a hidden treasure room there anyway? Sounds like a name change is all they need for that. Let Tom and Jack share the island!