PDA

View Full Version : No educational value?!



Pages : [1] 2 3

jcruise86
09-30-2006, 09:38 AM
My daughter and I have an absolutely wonderful time at Disneyland! My spouse argues that Disneyland offers no educational value and is a waste of time. (Not a terrible point since my daughter just turned 15 months!) My spouse is a professor, so I need really smart and clever points I can reply with.

C'mon Opus1, Stan4d Steph, and all you other smart and eloquent Mouseplaneteers--I really need your help! So far I got history of the West and music appreciation.

Alex S.
09-30-2006, 09:44 AM
Somehow I don't think your daughter is much interested in the history of the West at 15 months (or, most likely, at 15 years) and Disneyland would be a horrible place to learn the history of the West.

If nothing else there is plenty of science going on and it is very common for high school physics classes to visit a local amusement park for the day to explore practical applications of the physical properties they've been learning about in class.

jcruise86
09-30-2006, 10:02 AM
Why did you point out that she is too young for history and then go off on physics? Thanks, Alex, but I need real help here! Our trips to Disneyland are at stake!

carolyn
09-30-2006, 10:09 AM
Well I'm not very eloquent, but here are some things we do to "homeschool" at Disneyland. BTW, my son is 7yo and we've been doing this since he got his first AP at 3yo.


Read a book that takes place in a different country and then try to locate that country in IASW
Make cookies at the Plaza Pavillion thing
Nature walks - make lists of different plants, animals, or birds you see in the park
Count steps - for example, how many steps from Dumbo to Peter Pan?
Money - we have $10 for snacks, what can we afford to buy?
History of DL - my son LOVES to hear about how DL was when I was a child
Factory tours
Identify the different areas of California at DCA
Observe the different types of bridges at DL and DCA and talk about how they support your weight
Learn how the rides operate
Watch Golden Dreams and talk about the history of California
Turtle Talk with Crush - how do you think it works?


That's just a small list of things we do. Your daughter is very young, but I'm sure you'll be able to find other ways to teach your daughter at DL.

Edited to add ideas for a younger child.

Color identification.
Letter identification.
Counting of all sorts.
Measuring - every few months or so measure her height at one of the height-restricted rides.

Alex S.
09-30-2006, 10:10 AM
That was intended to be real help. First expressing confusion as to what educational value you'd be looking for a 15 month old and then sharing how amusement parks are actually used as an educational aid.

For a 15 month old, I pretty much agree with your wife. There isn't a lot of educational value beyond the standard visual and tactical stimulation is probably good for all young children.


Frankly, if the fact that you and your daughter enjoy the time together at Disneyland isn't good enough reason for you be allowed to go, I don't think you're going to win no matter what you say. But what kind of things does your wife find sufficiently educational for your daughter?

disneyperson
09-30-2006, 10:14 AM
Disneyland is a place where parents and children can form a bond and a common interest that will last for life. The other day my 17 year old daughter and I were talking about her future and she mentioned that no matter where she ends up living, she wants to keep our DL trips a part of her life.

Yup, a lasting bond and common interest with your child.... Pretty darn valuable and it can't be taught in a book or in a class.

ochibiyo
09-30-2006, 10:14 AM
I agree with you on that Disneyland is educational for all ages, even adults! History can be learned by Mark Twain/Tom Sawyer in Frontierland and Davey Crockett in Critter Country. The culture of New Orleans in New Orleans Square. The technology and science in Tomorrowland. Everywhere in Disneyland you can teach your daughter, when of age, how things work as in engineering. Example - how the train runs, how the rides moves and such. You also learn the importance of manners - patience waiting in lines, kindess of others, no tantrums, rudeness and differences of people = which is social studies and humanities. And most of all IMAGINATION!! Every child needs to know how to imagine!!!!

Tinkermommy
09-30-2006, 10:20 AM
First, my sort of OT mom rant: kids need downtime! Not everything needs to be -- or should be -- educational! They get to be kids for 12 years, teens for a few more, then they are grownups for the rest of their lives. (Technically, anyway.) Childhood should be a time of imagination, fantasy and wonder.

Back to the subject (at the risk of contradicting myself) -- there are lessons everywhere, if you look for them. My daughter has done two science projects that came right out of Disneyland (but could be applied outside the park), and both ended up winning awards at school and at the district level.

So much at Disneyland has been inventive, and if you start looking at things with an inquiring mind, asking, 'How'd they do that?' you'll be surprised at what you'll find that can be educational.

With our daughter, the love for Disneyland came first. By third grade, she started wondering how to tie in her love for Disneyland with her interest in science. She was able to put the two together in a way that fed her interest in Disneyland, rather than turning it into more school.

I'd say she learned more -- and enjoyed learning more -- by being allowed to just go and have fun. The learning was a happy side effect.

DianeM
09-30-2006, 10:23 AM
Disneyland isn't educational. The history they present tends to be "Disneyfied" and the music is pleasant and generic. So what? While education is a valuable part of life, any child that lives in a home where the "educational value" of an event is the ONLY thing that matters will not grow up to be a very well rounded person. It's just as important to teach your child healthy ways to have fun as it is to teach her how to count and spell. I hope that your husband will not classify every event in life into either "educational" or "a waste of time". If he does, then I feel sorry for your daughter. She's going to miss out on a lot.


My daughter and I have an absolutely wonderful time at Disneyland! My spouse argues that Disneyland offers no educational value and is a waste of time. (Not a terrible point since my daughter just turned 15 months!) My spouse is a professor, so I need really smart and clever points I can reply with. .

jcruise86
09-30-2006, 10:38 AM
Carolyn: THANK YOU! That was exactly what I was looking for. Most of it will apply when she's older, but I'm printing your message for the future!

disneyperson: Thanks! I've long enjoyed your postings. You are a role model for me--the way you love, respect, and have fun with your goth daughter.

Ochibiyo: Very good, esp. about manners! Thanks!

Diane M.: You assumed I am a woman and that my spouse, the professor, was a man. Every popular parenting magazine seems to be =ly sexist when they write for mommies. It really doesn't really bother me much--that's just the way our society still is, but I love spending lots of time with my daughter.

Tinkermommy: Thank you too! I really valued my downtime as a kid and we try to give our daughter time to explore interesting things and books on her own.

mistofviolets
09-30-2006, 10:45 AM
As you said, music appreciation is a good one.
Tom Sawyer Island (literature)
Its a Small World (cultural differences, in a very appealing setting)
Rudimentary math skills (money/budgeting as mentioned before, wait times, counting how many people in front of you before its your turn, telling time waiting for shows)
Science (Just how many Potato Head parts can you pack into this box? Dump them out...start again...)
History...Walt Disney was a real man who built an empire. It fits into Economics (entrepreneur), and history, and the social issues of the era.
Theatre (Aladdin show, other shows offer an appreciation of the arts)
Geography/map reading skills
Art appreciation (The attention to detail used, the gallery above Pirates, theatrical art of all the costumed characters)
Live animals are often used in curriculums
Train rides and steamboat rides are also often used in various curriculum.

More literature: Most of the Disney cartoons are based on works of literature. Peter Pan, Bambi, Pinochio, little mermaid...Those original stories can be shared with a child and compared to the rides and movies.

Factory tours and the Animation Studio have educational benefits.
Conservationism...Why did Disney build SAplash based on a movie no one's seen in years? Well, they had the spare parts... ;) (Sorry)


And don't forget the most important thing learned at Disneyland...that kids are important! Adults taking an interest in children is vital to their development. Showing that dreams can come true (if you work at it) is an essential element in their later dreams for success.

newportbeachbumz
09-30-2006, 11:06 AM
There are all sorts of learning opportunities.... it kind of evolves as your little one gets older. In the beginning it might be developing speech by constantly talking about what you are seeing and asking questions....

Pointing out shapes, numbers, letters, and colors, making up games to find them... counting, etc.

Changes in season and holidays

Music - all different varieties, listening, instruments, singing etc.

Social skills - minding manners and being polite, interacting with cast members, etc. Also, that not every one is alike - great opportunity to teach and learn about special needs.

Patience... waiting in line. Taking turns.

Horticulture

Art

Transportation - train, monorail, cars, ships, boats, rockets, canoes etc.

Astronomy - space, meteors, planets, etc.

Animals

Special effects

Architecture

Geography - ie. It's a small world, naming off the countries etc. DCA - different locations... ie golden gate bridge - san fran. etc. New Orleans

Foods associated to geography, see how tortillas are made, see how bread is made, etc.

Flag ceremony - respect for our country - the flag, what it means

Theater experience

Hope this helps!!!;)

newportbeachbumz
09-30-2006, 11:13 AM
I worked on my post off and on in between house work ... :D Didn't realize all these other ones had come through already.... WOW. I learned about some new ones

Thanks...

jcruise86
09-30-2006, 11:15 AM
Thanks mistofviolets and newportbeachbumz--that helps! I'm building up a strong case! (We'll hit the flag ceremony next time--she likes the band.) I think we're reaching a compromise that I take her about once a month.

Any more ideas would be appreciated too!

rosie
09-30-2006, 11:24 AM
Disneyland is a place where parents and children can form a bond and a common interest that will last for life. The other day my 17 year old daughter and I were talking about her future and she mentioned that no matter where she ends up living, she wants to keep our DL trips a part of her life.

Yup, a lasting bond and common interest with your child.... Pretty darn valuable and it can't be taught in a book or in a class.

I must agree...The time I spend with my daughter (now 20 yrs old) at Disney is invaluable. Enjoyment of each others company in a place that fills us with wonder and excitement has left memories that simple cannot be duplicated. I have an older daughter too and Disney is simply not her thing...we bond at the Oregon Coast, or in nice restaurants and as with my youngest...anywhere anytime.
Spending time in a place you love with your daughter will leave warm and fuzzy memories with her...Go for it!!

P.S I still remember the awe I felt at the NYC Worlds Fair in 1964/65 I was only two or three but that has to be where my love of Disney began.

Petersgj
09-30-2006, 11:28 AM
Diane M.: You assumed I am a woman and that my spouse, the professor, was a man. Every popular parenting magazine seems to be =ly sexist when they write for mommies. It really doesn't really bother me much--

There are three times as many male professors in this country than female. Given the fact that you specifically used terms that hide your gender such as spouse instead of wife, it is a reasonable assumption that you are female so you shouldn't be offended if someone assumes that. If you don’t want people to make assumptions, you should provide the information necessary so that assumptions are not required.

The attitude that everything must be “educational” is the reason why I left academia. Many of my former colleagues had the same attitude. They only watched PBS on Television, only went to the theater and not movies, museums instead of amusement parks. At first, I was angry at the elitist attitude, but later it turned more into pity. By limiting their experiences only to “educational” activities, they are diametrically opposed to the premise of education. They are limiting their exposure to numerous potential educational opportunities because they presuppose that they will not be “educational”. By isolating themselves, they are limiting their education on so many levels. Honestly, despite the fact that I am a reformed professor with many advanced degrees, I think most of my true education came from “non-educational” experiences.

It is a sad life to have the attitude that nothing can be done just because it’s fun; that every activity must be justified.

jcruise86
09-30-2006, 11:28 AM
I must agree...The time I spend with my daughter (now 20 yrs old) at Disney is invaluable. Enjoyment of each others company in a place that fills us with wonder and excitement has left memories that simple cannot be duplicated. I have an older daughter too and Disney is simply not her thing...we bond at the Oregon Coast, or in nice restaurants and as with my youngest...anywhere anytime.
Spending time in a place you love with your daughter will leave warm and fuzzy memories with her...Go for it!!

Thanks, Rosie!

potzbie
09-30-2006, 11:31 AM
I have never attended Disneyland for its "educational value."

"A waste of time"?
I do not consider wonderment a waste of time.
I do not consider fabulousness a waste of time.

I have yet to consider the MATTERHORN BOBSLEDS and INDIANA JONES TEMPLE OF DOOM a waste of time.

After seeing BILLY HILL AND THE HILLBILLIES about 40+ times, I do not consider BILLY HILL a waste of time.

I don't consider my Annual Pass a waste of money.

But, by george, ya got me on the value of Disneyland as a schoolhouse!
No math, no science, no English, no woodshop, no spelling, etc., is my concern when I walk down Main Street, or sit in the Jungle Cruise boats.
Just the opposite -- NO CONCERNS!

I hope your significant other does not do things of non-eduational value like: (a.) read novels; (b.) go to Las Vegas; (c.) go to movies.
Why not? -- No educational value.
Novels are fictional. Movies are fictional. Las Vegas showgirls are not that "real".
So novels, movies, and stage shows are all lies, and have no educational value. They are all false, or all distorions of the true facts.

Don't catch your significant other having fun -- there is no educational value in FUN and LAUGHTER and JOY and MEMORIES.
None!
No photographs, either! -- No eduational value in photos!
No autographs, either! -- No eduational value in how each character signs his/her/its name.
No music, either! -- No ragtime piano at REFRESHMENT CORNER. No barbarshop quartets on Main Street. No saxophone quintet on Main Street.
No eduational value.

I'll keep Disneyland for myself, thank you very much.

jMom
09-30-2006, 11:33 AM
I think it's more a question of how you look at things. As many PPs have pointed out, there are many educational opportunities at Disneyland ... and many of these can be done in other places as well.

For building your case, how about "It's important to me to go as a family to this special place" and "where would you prefer to go?" and work out a compromise, which it sounds as though you are already doing.

And lastly, don't forget the adage that all work and no play ...

3894
09-30-2006, 11:38 AM
My daughter and I have an absolutely wonderful time at Disneyland! My spouse argues that Disneyland offers no educational value and is a waste of time. (Not a terrible point since my daughter just turned 15 months!) My spouse is a professor, so I need really smart and clever points I can reply with.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Signed,
Helen, Ph.D. and a former professor, married to a current professor, daughter and niece of professors

Vegitabeta
09-30-2006, 11:40 AM
I have never attended Disneyland for its "educational value."... I'll keep Disneyland for myself, thank you very much.That is a very well thought out answer!

newportbeachbumz
09-30-2006, 11:46 AM
I beleive that life itself is one big learning experience. Whether you are looking at it as an "educational" experience or not. We all learn or take something from the experience - good or bad.

Have fun and learn - I am there!!!! :D

Vegitabeta
09-30-2006, 11:48 AM
Yeah, first time I went to WDW I learnt a lot, (World Showcase, Future World, Animal Kingdom)...and that isn't including the history of Disney and its parks! Although I was 10 at the time...

chrisaustx
09-30-2006, 12:23 PM
I don't think Disneyland has much educational value anymore. When the park opened, Walt wanted the place to be a place of education, but over the years, that idea has been tossed out.
The few things left that any type of educational value are:
The Horses on Main Street
Innoventions Science Displays
Steam Trains and Mark Twain Steam Engine
It's a Small World-so kids can see how other cultures are represented
The Big Thunder Ranch area with the animals, since you don't see many farm animals around in Orange County anymore.
The place does have some educational value, but it is nothing like it used to be years ago.

DianeM
09-30-2006, 12:58 PM
Assuming you are a woman isn't sexist. The majority of people who ask for advice on parenting on this site who have an identifiable gender are women, which makes it logical for me to assume that you are a woman and the "professor" is a man. The odds were in my favor. If you want people to not make mistakes about your gender on the internet, you're going to have to give out a few clues. It's not fair for you to write your letter without clue then accuse people of being sexist when they make logical assumptions. My advice stands - you're "spouse" is going to short change your daughter out of an important part of life if she insists that everything she does has to be educational.



Diane M.: You assumed I am a woman and that my spouse, the professor, was a man. Every popular parenting magazine seems to be =ly sexist when they write for mommies. It really doesn't really bother me much--that's just the way our society still is, but I love spending lots of time with my daughter.