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View Full Version : They just keep bleeding us...



Ghoulish Delight
04-29-2002, 01:40 PM
According to this article (http://www.msnbc.com/news/745278.asp?sym=DIS) at msnbc.com, Disney has decided not to raise rates at WDW resort this summer. Well, of course not. Why raise admission there when all they have to do is milk us out here on the west coast by raising general admission and AP rates! This REALLY angers me. I mean, it'd be one thing to raise rates to pull in some revenue for DLR. But now that they've made this bit of news public, clearly they simply plan on funneling any extra revenue across the continent and dump it right back into Florida, leaving us with the same low standards we've had to put up with for years. Do they really want DLR to turn into a second rate restort? Apparantly, because that's exactly where they are headed.

MouseWife
04-29-2002, 01:50 PM
It is rather like a slap in the face.

I was upset when they took the Electric Parade there.
And, when so many of the events {I don't know, televised parades and such} took place there.

Now, our rates go up again. What are we getting for it?
A new ride? So many rides are shut down and so many things need attention.

This is the Original. It should not be left to run down.

Is it because {remember the Super Soap weekends, they said that they thought it would be rather full because of all of the people who live nearby} they figure they will get the attendance anyways?

Maybe not. This seems to be the year to visit National Parks.

{Okay, I had already planned that. ;) }

innerSpaceman
04-29-2002, 02:27 PM
Makes me wanna gag.

wonderful
04-30-2002, 12:25 AM
I must say that the argument you propose seems to be missing a few facts...
WDW was hit much harder by 9/11 than DLR and, because of people's fear to fly and lack of funds to fly, it is hard enough to get them to WDW without raiing prices...
DLR has many issues and I will be the first to agree with you that not enough money is being spent on these problems, but I also have to call out, if we are comparing what has been spent on DLR to what has been spent on WDW in the last, say, two years, well you have to consider DLR opened a whole new park, a new hotel, and DTD, DL picked up the Mansion holiday makeover, Believe...Fireworks (and the holiday version), the new Lincoln show, and, soon, the "critter country" makeover... and DCA is picking up Bug Land and Tower, not to mention the addition of BLAST and the expensive (but pretty darn popular) Super Soaps Weekends....
Annual Passports went DOWN in price by nearly $100 (for the Premium) and there has not been a month since March of 2001 when there has not been some sort of discount available to residents.
So do I think DL is being neglected... er, take a look at Toontown and Tomorrowland, or watch the Godawful "47 Years of Magic" parade and you have my answer... but I don't think it's fair to blame the company (or Michael Eisner) for making the very wise decision not to raise rates in Florida. That's just my two cents.

Ghoulish Delight
04-30-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by wonderful
and there has not been a month since March of 2001 when there has not been some sort of discount available to residents.
So do I think DL is being neglected... er, take a look at Toontown and Tomorrowland, or watch the Godawful "47 Years of Magic" parade and you have my answer... but I don't think it's fair to blame the company (or Michael Eisner) for making the very wise decision not to raise rates in Florida. That's just my two cents. I am not really questioning the decission to freeze WDW prices. That makes sense. It's the decission to, at the same time, raise DLR prices. Sure, there are a ton of discounts. Why? Because they can't pay people to stay in the new park. Maybe WDW's attendance has dropped more than Disneyland's, but the shortfall of DCA attendence compared to expectations more than "makes up" for that, never mind that 90% of the people who ARE in DCA paid a discounted price.

And, just to clarify, AP prices did NOT drop $100. They simply tacked on DCA as a "free bonus" so that people would go in and buy food. Giving people something for free that they weren't willing to pay for to begin with does not constitute dropping prices.

The only possible explanation for a increase in DLR prices is to milk loyal locals for extra cash. Again, I'd be perfectly happy if that extra cash were to go back into DLR in a productive way, but history has proven that the company cares far more about Florida than DLR. Perhaps they will prove me wrong. I'd love it if they did. But I'm not holding my breath.

cstephens
04-30-2002, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
The only possible explanation for a increase in DLR prices is to milk loyal locals for extra cash.

Of course, people can always choose to just not buy an AP anymore. It's not like they're being forced to spend the money.




/cs

Iceman
04-30-2002, 07:59 AM
Great points, cstephens and wonderful!

I'm more than a little surprised to see such hostile jealousy directed at WDW.

Gemini Cricket
04-30-2002, 09:03 AM
GD-

I totally understand your frustration. Everyone should be this worked up about it. Be proactive (I hate that word too...). Write them! It's healthy to channel your anger peacefully to the source. I've done it, gotten positive and negative responses and sometimes got no feedback at all. Give it a try! :)

Here's some info on how to do it:

Disneyland website contact page:
http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/gmail/generic_mail.cgi?template=disneyland/form.tpl

WDW website contact page:
http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/gmail/generic_mail.cgi?template=disneyworld/form.tpl

Michael D. Eisner
Chairman and CEO,
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521
(818) 560-1000 - Main
(818) 560-1930 - Fax

Roy E. Disney
Director, Chairman of the Board
President, Disney Feature Animation
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521
(818) 560-1000 - Main
(818) 560-1930 - Fax

Mr. Paul Pressler
Chairman & President
Walt Disney Parks & Resorts
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873

Cynthia Harriss
President,
The Disneyland Resort
Post Office Box 3232
Anaheim, CA 92803

Michael P. Berry
Senior Vice President,
Disneyland Attractions/Operations/Foods
Post Office Box 3232
Anaheim, CA 92803

Mr. Marty Sklar
Vice Chairman & Principal Creative Executive
Walt Disney Imagineering
1401 Flower Street
Glendale, CA 91221

Disneyland Guest Relations
1313 Harbor Boulevard
Post Office Box 3232
Anaheim, CA 92803

Mr. Al Weiss
President
The Walt Disney World Resort
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

Mr. Dave Vermeulen
General Manager of the Magic Kingdom
PO Box 10000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

Mr. Lee Cockerell
Executive Vice President of Walt Disney World Operations
1375 Buena Vista Drive
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-1000

Mr. Greg Emmer
Vice President of Magic Kingdom Operations
PO Box 10000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

Walt Disney World Guest Communications
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0040

Walt Disney World Guest Relations
PO Box 10000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

Letters to the Editor
The Orlando Sentinel
633 North Orange Avenue
Orlando, FL 32801-1349
Fax: 407.420.5286


Go for it, MousePlaneteers & MousePadders, you can do it!

:cool: GC

Corith
04-30-2002, 03:15 PM
No matter matter how many letters you write, Pressler isn't going to care. The few complaints he and his staff receive, don't even compare to the number of daily visitors DL sees.

In fact, this calculation is part of his business model. He is going, or seems to go, on basis that the average guest isn't going to do anything other than pay admission, buy a few trinkets, buy some food, and leave. Even his wonder child of DCA, is built on this model.

He has given every impression (and yes, I have met him) that he doesn't see the need for Disney to build anything expensive. Once you are in the park, he's got your money. You don't like the park, fine with him, there are plenty of new, first time, visitors that don't care what the park looks like, or what attractions are running.

You really want to make a difference, buy lots of stock, or even better talk to stock holders about your feelings that his actions, and those of his boss, are hurting the long term grown potential of the company.

Ghoulish Delight
04-30-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Corith

You really want to make a difference, buy lots of stock, or even better talk to stock holders about your feelings that his actions, and those of his boss, are hurting the long term grown potential of the company. Actually, what would really make a difference is if we start encouraging shareholders (with any decent holdings) to sell. With the number of shares out there, combined with the price of the stock, there are very few people with enough money to just go out and purchase enough shares to make their vote matter (I mean, even $100,000 worth of stock is just a drop in the bucket). But if people who already own a good chuck start wholesale unloading, the price would plummet sending a rather loud message to those who matter.

Wait, who am I kidding? All that will happen is Eisner and Pressler will do some pathetic patch job to win the public back, bring the stock price back up, then exercise some stock option to make a bundle on the whole deal. :rolleyes: Sigh. Never mind.

The most practical option...stop giving them money. At this point, I am almost certain I will not be renewing my AP when it expires. I am going to start trying to convince others to do the same. Combine that with communication (write letters, go to City Hall, etc) to make it perfectly clear that, hopefully, a large number of us are not renewing and tell them WHY. That's how to send the message. We should give them a little lesson in economics. They increase price? We'll decrease demand. Of course, it only works if enough people do this to offset the increased revenue from each AP. I can only hope that people on this board are paying attention to what Disney is doing to us and that they seriously want to do something about it.

Corith
04-30-2002, 03:37 PM
In some cases (some cases mind you), it doesn't matter whether or not your actions will have any effect. Its knowing that you are doing what you believe is right.

The current disintegration of Disneyland is one of those times. Even if my not renewing my passport and curtailing my visits to the park, will have zero impact on the current management practices of the park, I know, deep in my heart, that I have made the right choice to express my displeasure of how the company is running Disneyland. And, sometimes, just sometimes, that is enough.

coronamouseman
04-30-2002, 05:10 PM
Regarding the disparity in admission prices between WDW and DLR:

Once again, this is simply a case of corporate policy related to supply and demand economics - WDW has been hit very hard by the decrease in air travel and spending since 9/11 and DLR has been more successful in that same time (more folks willing to spend their money close to home rather than travelling elsewhere - seen the big discounts being offered for Hawaii lately?).

So don't take things so personal - this is just Disney trying to make the most money they can right now during this time of relative crisis for them ........

And rest assured that when travel to Florida picks up again then Disney will raise the prices there too ..........

One other item of interest I think I heard the other day - DLP tickets are only something like $35 in US dollars so over there the pricing is different based upon demand too ...........

And as regards Corith's comments on showing your displeasure by not patronizing Disney products - if enough people decide that Disney parks or resorts are not worth spending their money on, then yes, the impact will be felt by Disney eventually and changes will take place. And stockholders will drop the stock if it's price and fundamentals drop down low enough and so on ...........

Iceman
04-30-2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by coronamouseman
And as regards Corith's comments on showing your displeasure by not patronizing Disney products - if enough people decide that Disney parks or resorts are not worth spending their money on, then yes, the impact will be felt by Disney eventually and changes will take place. And stockholders will drop the stock if it's price and fundamentals drop down low enough and so on ...........

That's absolutely correct, and I applaud those of you who are going to vote with your wallets and pocketbooks just because you feel it is the right thing to do. Keep in mind, however, that those of us who keep renewing annual passes and buying Disney stock are doing so because we believe in the company's present and future as it stands now. Just as strongly as you believe things are going to hell in a handbasket, some people feel that the company is doing just fine.

Even during the heydays of Disney they did some things I didn't agree with, but I still have faith in the brand, the cast members, and the future. Maybe I'm just the kind of idiot (in your eyes) who spends enough money to make Paul Pressler think he's got the right business model. But maybe, and just maybe, he DOES have the right business model and the naysayers here are the ones who are wrong. Just something to consider.

Tigertail777
04-30-2002, 11:12 PM
So the right model would be to not put money back into what is already making money, and just let it rot into the dirt? HMMM.. lets see: the carousel rotten wood its gone for a while. Tomorrowland: geez can you even call it a seperate land anymore? What is working there? lets see the sub ride is now the the floating garbage attraction, Rocket Rods is the wishful thinking, not enough testing ride (due of course to that wonderful business model of pay little now spend more to fix later). Might as well call tomorrowland "the land that the execs forgot". Oh and that business model of "lets paint it real pretty with hard to maintain paint colors so they won't notice there is less here" AKA the "new" tomorrowland paint job. Walt was a better business man than Eisner will ever be: it was white originally because white paint is cheap and easy to maintain. Hmmm lets think about this: how long did it take walt to put in a new attraction when an old one needed removed or updated? Sure as hell didn't take years! And then there is the other aspects of Disney besides the parks: been to a Disney store lately? is there very much threre for adults anymore? Hmmm lets isolate and screw over the people who bring the kids to the store so they want to leave faster --oooo goood business model. Oh and lets not forget the "we are the top animation company in the world, so lets fire half of the animators, and make the rest hate us" policy. I have to talked to numerous ex-animators and all of them are very bitter about Disney--some to the point of not wanting to talk about their horrible experiences. One of my college teachers was one such person... she went so far to tell the class: " I know some of you love Disney for their past accomplishments in the field, but I worked there, and I am here to tell you those days are over--you do not want to work for them if you can at all help it". Out of my entire school only a handful even wanted to work for Disney even before she said anything--yes what a wonderful business model--everyone in animation/theme park biz used to want to work for them...not anymore. I am so disgusted with the Disney empire that I almost wish they would go out of business, and Disneyland would burn down before it gets raped by management anymore---ALMOST. Eisner was great for the company when he had other people on his level to tell him that some of his ideas were crap...but you notice all of those people are gone now? Even Walt had someone to act in this capacity (his brother), and Roy rightly told Walt where to stick it sometimes. No one single person is right for such a large company, unless they have a HUGE talent for it both creative and financial..but EISNER DOES NOT! OK I've vented...I'm calm...I'm calm. Right business model-- sure. And Enron had the right business model too. sure.

Ghoulish Delight
05-01-2002, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by coronamouseman
Regarding the disparity in admission prices between WDW and DLR:

Once again, this is simply a case of corporate policy related to supply and demand economics - WDW has been hit very hard by the decrease in air travel and spending since 9/11 and DLR has been more successful in that same time (more folks willing to spend their money close to home rather than travelling elsewhere - seen the big discounts being offered for Hawaii lately?).

So don't take things so personal - this is just Disney trying to make the most money they can right now during this time of relative crisis for them ........

And rest assured that when travel to Florida picks up again then Disney will raise the prices there too ..........

One other item of interest I think I heard the other day - DLP tickets are only something like $35 in US dollars so over there the pricing is different based upon demand too ...........
Basically it comes down to this. Both resorts, just like every theme park across America, are struggling. WDW has the added struggle of dealing with drop in overall travel since they rely primarily on tourists, while DLR has to deal with a park that's bleeding cash like no tomorrow. Both need something drastic to deal with it. At WDW, they are freezing prices to attract more guests. Again, I understand that decission. It makes sense. But at DLR, what they are doing is giving DCA, which most people have no real desire to pay for to begin with, as a freebie/heavily discounted extra, meanwhile milking people who pay the new full price for Disneyland. Some of that money MIGHT go back into DCA (we'll see), and some will go into the corporate pockets. This does NOT make sense. Discount the thing people don't want, then charge more for the thing that they do?

As for DLP, Disney owns it in name only. It is managed by an outside company, so Disney doesn't even have control over admission prices.

hefferdude
05-01-2002, 07:23 AM
re: Mousewife comment on going to the National Forest -

Locally in Los Padres National Forest, we have been
saddled with an insidious thing called an " Adventure Pass ".
Basically, you are forced to pay a extra $5 fee if you want to
visit the local National Forest.
( hmmmmmm.. I was led to believe we had paid for it with something called " taxes " :confused: )
Anyway, if you're caught without one in the forest, you get busted.

To my point, the article continued with list of the
lobbyists for this contemporary " Stamp Act ".
On the list was outdoor gear and entertainment vendors
which included Disney Co. ( Surprised - I'm sure. )

There is a troubling precedent being set by the corporate
thirst for the bottom line. Are our national treasures being
marginalized?

The AP increase $ issue is only the tip of the iceberg.

coronamouseman
05-02-2002, 12:38 AM
GD: Have to disagree with your comment about pricing - yes, you do want to discount what people don't want to buy and charge more for what people do want.

Ever try to buy a ticket to a Laker's game or a Clipper's game?Tickets to the Lakers are very expensive and hard to get while you can get a Clippers ticket with relative ease.

Ever want to play golf at Pebble Beach? Green fee is $350 and tee times are still hard to get - because people want them and are willing to pay for them.

Supply and demand econmics say you charge as much as the market will bear for those items in demand and without direct competition and that you discount those items which do not "move" in your inventory ..........

Disney is no different from any other corporation in this regard ....

The strength of the Disney "brand" is still there - look at all of the discounts available at Knott's, Universal and SFMM right now - KBF almost always has some kind of $20-$25 admission coupon deal with some fast food place, Universal is offering an annual pass for the price of a single-day admission and SFMM has the usual soft drink can or fast food $10-$20 discount - so Disney is still the higher-priced and more-in-demand product.