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Werner
05-21-2006, 06:50 PM
I have a tape recording of the "Welcome" spiel heard outside the ticket booths from back around 1980. Under the speech can be heard an instrumental version of the song, "Me Ol' Bam-boo" -- which was written by the Sherman Brothers, but which was used in the movie, "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang", which was not a Disney film. This has always intrigued me. Why would a non-Disney song (albeit one written by probably the most notable of Disney's composers) be used like this?

Opus1guy
05-21-2006, 09:32 PM
Disney has often used non-Disney music in their loops around the park. They decide on what's included mainly for how the music "feels" and if they think it might make some sort of familiar or emotional connection. Here's a post I made awhile back from another thread on non-Disney music usage:


It got there mainly due to Tony Baxter, Eddie Sotto and Disneyland's own music master: Stacia Martin, who Imagineering called in from Disneyland to consult and help build a playlist.

Many years ago when it was decided to update the music tracks all over the park (mainly because they were creating new tracks for the then soon-to-open Euro Disneyland theme park), they felt they wanted not only generic historical theme music, but also more contemporary music that would make the same type of subliminal emotional connection to the newer generations. And especially for Europeans who got much of their U.S. cultural musical "connection" from the scores of U.S. films and television. They selected scores from various non-Disney movies and television shows, along with some other pieces (like from composer Aaron Copland) to include in the new tracks.

Tracks from The Music Man, Hello Dolly, Blazing Saddles and many other non-Disney films and TV shows made the cut. However, Stacia (being a true blue Disney person) was particularly proud that a cut from Walt Disney's "The Happiest Millionaire" made the list (it's her favorite Disney live-action film).

I don't know if the Chitty track is still used today. You may have heard it from an even earlier loop than the 1990 updated one.

:)

iwannabeanimagineer
05-22-2006, 10:55 AM
I've noticed music from a lot of non-Disney westerns in Frontierland, music from Oklahoma! and The Music Man on Main Street and a lot of great non-Disney jazz in New Orleans Square.

darph nader
05-22-2006, 10:25 PM
A little off topic. It seems so 'weird' that the the author who wrote "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" also gave us all those great " Bond,James Bond" storys.:cool:

PragmaticIdealist
05-23-2006, 02:30 AM
The decision to use music from non-Disney films and television shows in Disneyland was and is a mistake.

Having scores from "Blazing Saddles" and "Back to the Future" cheapens Frontierland just as having the "Music Man" and "Oklahoma!" music on Main Street, U.S.A. does a disservice to Disney's vision of everyone's hometown.

There is so much Disney-owned music from which to draw that I would like to see Imagineering include more of those pieces, in addition to established classics such as Copeland's "Hoedown" and Grofe's "On the Trail".

The Hollywood area, the one place where music from non-Disney films should be heard, now has Fantasyland music playing for some strange reason. I'd like D.C.A. to return to playing "Somewhere over the Rainbow", "Singin' in the Rain", and other classic movie music so that there is not as much redundancy.

Neon Cactus
05-23-2006, 07:34 AM
Personally, I have no issues with the background music they've used. I guess I haven't paid much attention either, as I haven't noticed music from Back to the Future or Blazing Saddles. I don't really see the difference between using non-Disney music from other films or non-Disney music such as Copeland or Grofe. Sure beats working at Magic Mountain to the three track loop of Never on a Sunday, Gone with the Wind theme and one other annoying Muzak song they kept repeating over and over and over...

I always like going into Wilderness Lodge at WDW and hearing the music there from Dances with Wolves, Last of the Mohicans, and other western films there.

hbquikcomjamesl
05-23-2006, 07:42 AM
And I certainly don't have an issue with Blazing Saddles showing up in Frontierland. I don't see it as "cheapening" the place; rather, when I notice it at all, it simply gives me a reason to chuckle a bit. And is that such a bad thing in The Happiest Place On Earth?

If anything cheapens Disney theme parks in general, it's the growing presence of fast food in general, and McDonalds (especially the McDonald's French Fry stands) in particular.

Back to the original topic, it would surprise me greatly if I heard anything from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang in Disneyland, given the hostility the whole Disney organization had for the film when it was in first run, but I rejoice that the hostility has faded with time.

Opus1guy
05-23-2006, 09:04 AM
If anything cheapens Disney theme parks in general, it's the growing presence of fast food in general, and McDonalds (especially the McDonald's French Fry stands) in particular.

I don't have a problem with McDonalds in Disneyland per se. My thoughts on that are a bit broader than just an outright rejection of them as a Company within the Berm.

IMHO, one of the big differences between "then" and "now" and the then "Participant Affairs" vs. today's "Corporate Alliance"...was that back in Walt's days (and even for a period after his death), he didn't just accept anybody for sponsorship, and more importantly they were very particular about sponsorship placement.

Back in the earlier years, Theme was king. Walt wasn't against companies selling their products or advertising in the Park, but it had to "look right." It generally had to "belong" where it was placed.

If a company wanted in on Main Street, it had to have a name and logo (and sometimes even history, real or perceived) that looked right for turn-of-the-century America. Hills Bros Coffee, Upjohn, Wurlitzer, Carnation, Coka-Cola, etc, etc. You'd never see Delta Airlines sponsoring an attraction in Frontierland no matter how desirable a sponsorship might have been on a very popular attraction, or how much money they were offering. It just wouldn't have been allowed.

And that brings us back to McDonalds. Frontierland is just wrong for them. It's just not right for the Land as there isn't any cultural connection between them and the era and area being depicted.

Now Tomorrowland? Yeah. I think you could very easily and correctly place a McDonalds there, perhaps in the old Coke Terrace (now Buzz) location. Nothing wrong with that, IMHO. In fact, I've often opinioned that if McDonalds had been in Tomorrowland back in the 60's and 70's that today we'd just think of them as completely natural being in Disneyland. And would probably lament (and place flowers ;)) if they ever left!

In the recent past and still even today to some extent...the lure of the multi-million Corporate Alliance has lead to a corruption of the old rules to some degree, and you see a lot more incorrect sponsorship placement and concessions being given.

I hope someday we don't see something like an Apple Store on Main Street!

I think playing someone else's music in the Parks is different, however. Because it's not there promoting some other company's product. It's there mixed in with the "classics" to make a better emotional and thematic connection with a newer and broader audience that might now only make the audio part of the connection with the era of the Land they are in, by songs they might have heard in the popular movies they've seen. They don't have to be instantly recognizable. In fact, if they aren't instantly recognizable...somewhat all the better. They just have to be "familiar" or at least thematically correct, and subliminally complete the mental picture in the Guest's mind of the Land they are in.

When Disneyland first opened over fifty years ago, a good part of the population would remember most of those old-time classics first hand! They could probably sing the lyrics to those tunes on Main Street or the songs being plucked out on a banjo in Frontierland. That was the connection for them. But newer generations (and the increasing worldwide cultural diversity of the Guest mix) makes placing popular non-Disney film songs that match the theme of the Land into the mix, a correct move, IMHO.

PragmaticIdealist
05-23-2006, 02:30 PM
They don't have to be instantly recognizable. In fact, if they aren't instantly recognizable...somewhat all the better. They just have to be "familiar" or at least thematically correct, and subliminally complete the mental picture in the Guest's mind of the Land they are in.


The issue is partly one of exclusivity. I can remember going to Wild Rivers when I was a little kid and being really excited by the way that the Raiders March added to my enjoyment of one of the attractions there.

That water park merely obtained the clearances to use the music, and my imagination flew from there.

When Disneyland added Indiana Jones Adventure, one of the essential elements of the experience was the John Williams score. It helped place guests in the familiar Indiana Jones stories. And, unlike Wild Rivers, that experience was authentic in every other respect as well.

The same is true for Star Tours. What would that attraction have been without the John Williams score?

Music is not subliminal. It's integral to the Disneyland experience.

Anytime Disneyland uses recognizable music from a film or television show, that production is going to be recalled in the person's conscious memory. And, frankly, Billy Crystal in "City Slickers" does not fit in Frontierland, and neither does Michael J. Fox from "Back to the Future: Part III".

"Bonanza" does not seem very Disney-like or interesting to me, and neither does "Krull" or "Hello, Dolly".

Disney has a vast library of incredible music that is not being used. Even more recent productions, such as "Pocahontas", "Newsies", and "Beauty and the Beast", for example, are not really represented in Disneyland.

I'd love to hear "Rooftop" from "Newsies" in Town Square or Wendy Carlos' theme from "Tron" in Tomorrowland or even Alan Menken's "Home on the Range", from the film of the same name, in Frontierland.

There are a few exceptions, though. Bernard Hermann's prelude to "Mysterious Island" works in the Primeval World diorama because the film is relatively obscure and it fits the Disney style. I also would not mind if John Williams' finale to "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" was included in parts of Tomorrowland since the piece contains "When You Wish upon a Star".

Opus1guy
05-23-2006, 03:18 PM
When Disneyland added Indiana Jones Adventure, one of the essential elements of the experience was the John Williams score. It helped place guests in the familiar Indiana Jones stories. And, unlike Wild Rivers, that experience was authentic in every other respect as well.

The same is true for Star Tours. What would that attraction have been without the John Williams score?

Music is not subliminal. It's integral to the Disneyland experience.

In those examples I'd agree. But the subject of this thread is the background music that's played in the various areas of Disneyland. Not main attraction music.

In my long discussions with the Imagineers and Stacia Martin that created these tracks (all uber Disney fans themselves), the reasons I have posted are the ones they gave. Believe me...they knew what they were doing and put a great deal of thought and consideration into their selections. And the word "subliminal" was indeed used often. You may be able to identify these tunes with ease, but I don't think most Guests can. Or don't even bother because it is background music and not a major conscious focus of their experience or attention. This background music adds to the general feeling of the experience in an almost unconscious manner for most Guests. IMHO and understanding.

Doesn't mean it's any less important to the experience...on that I'd agree and I never said othewise. Which is why the folks that worked on it put so much time, money and consideration into their selections and the recordings themselves.

darph nader
05-23-2006, 10:40 PM
Music(and math) ARE part of our lives. Last year when the train stopped at NOS.the band next to the station was playing the theme to This Old House. I came THIS close to jumping ship just to kick back and enjoy.:cool: Imangine any movie w/o music(short of a musical) Total BORING!:eek:

PragmaticIdealist
05-25-2006, 12:23 AM
Many years ago when it was decided to update the music tracks all over the park (mainly because they were creating new tracks for the then soon-to-open Euro Disneyland theme park), they felt they wanted not only generic historical theme music, but also more contemporary music that would make the same type of subliminal emotional connection to the newer generations. And especially for Europeans who got much of their U.S. cultural musical "connection" from the scores of U.S. films and television. They selected scores from various non-Disney movies and television shows, along with some other pieces (like from composer Aaron Copland) to include in the new tracks.

Tracks from The Music Man, Hello Dolly, Blazing Saddles and many other non-Disney films and TV shows made the cut. However, Stacia (being a true blue Disney person) was particularly proud that a cut from Walt Disney's "The Happiest Millionaire" made the list (it's her favorite Disney live-action film).

I actually disagree with a number of the music choices that were made. Eddie Sotto said that the tempo selected for most Disneyland music is slightly faster than the speed with which the average guest walks, and I find many of those fast-tempo pieces obnoxious and inappropriate for that same reason. Town Square, for example, was always intended to be a relaxing space, but the fast-paced Main Street, U.S.A. loop assaults guests from the moment they cross the boundaries of The Magic Kingdom. "Rooftop", which is lush, orchestral, and romantic, is a more appropriate alternative, and it actually comes from a Disney film set in the turn of the 19th Century.

One of the other reasons I like the piece versus some of the other music is that it has a sweeping emotionality that has the potential to establish a very definite mood. Most Disneyland area music does not seem to try to touch the hearts of guests, and I have noticed that many people sense that Disneyland feels empty and hollow because of that lack of emotional depth.

I look at Disneyland's area music as the equivalent of a musical score in a film. It's not merely there in the background in the same way that Muzak in a grocery store or an elevator is there. Disneyland's music needs to say something and narrate the experience.

Moreover, the music can recall all the wonderful experiences guests have had with Disney films and television programs over the years. Taking the Disney out of Disneyland does not seem to be a wise decision since clearly some people are going to recognize much of the non-Disney music, such as the "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" song this thread concerns.

Disney would be better served by reinforcing the relationship that guests have with Disneyan culture through all the music in Disneyland. "The Happiest Millionaire" and "Summer Magic" are good starts for Main Street, U.S.A., but I'd also like to hear pieces from films such as "So Dear to My Heart" and "Pollyanna", for example. There is such a wealth of possibilities, and it deserves to be explored more because Disney's proprietary music is a significant competitive advantage.

Opus1guy
05-25-2006, 11:41 AM
I look at Disneyland's area music as the equivalent of a musical score in a film. It's not merely there in the background in the same way that Muzak in a grocery store or an elevator is there. Disneyland's music needs to say something and narrate the experience.

I agree, and I think it does. But in film, most folks aren't really consciously thinking about the score (unless it's a musical). But as I said above...it's no less important.


Disney would be better served by reinforcing the relationship that guests have with Disneyan culture through all the music in Disneyland. "The Happiest Millionaire" and "Summer Magic" are good starts for Main Street, U.S.A., but I'd also like to hear pieces from films such as "So Dear to My Heart" and "Pollyanna", for example. There is such a wealth of possibilities, and it deserves to be explored more because Disney's proprietary music is a significant competitive advantage.

Problem with that is that most folks these days have never seen "The Happiest Millionaire" or "Summer Magic" or "So Dear To My Heart." And even if they have...unless they are the most uber Disney fans like us...they're probably not out there humming along with those tunes. :)

Because of that and also the culturally diverse visitors from other countries that visit Disneyland...most of those types of songs are meaningless to them, especially from any Disney connection point-of-view. But more current movie scores (that fit the theme of course) or scores from popular non-Disney American films overseas and/or even commercials (re: Marlboro Man)...convey the emotional message and/or the proper accompaniment to the visual experience of the area they are in.

So the playlists are mixed. You got some old traditional Americana tunes, some Disney tunes, and some non-Disney tunes. I don't have a problem with that. It may not plus the experience for you and I, but I bet it does for others. I certainly don't think it lessens the experience.

LaughingGravy
05-25-2006, 12:53 PM
I haven't been in the park when any Blazing Saddles music was playing, but if this is true, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that it was a CM idea one day to do it on a dare.

PragmaticIdealist
05-25-2006, 02:16 PM
I think good music is good music, essentially, and that even if a guest has never seen "Newsies", for example, he or she can still appreciate the way that something like an instrumental version of Alan Menken's "Santa Fe" can make visiting Frontierland a more emotionally-satisfying experience.

There's no need to use scores from "Back to the Future: Part III", "City Slickers", and "Bonanza" when the Disney library is filled with all sorts of extraordinary music. Why would Imagineering want guests to recall their experiences with some of this non-Disney material if that material simply does not fit in Disneyland?

If I understand your position, Opus1guy, you prefer that some of the non-Disney pieces be more obscure and unrecognizable while you prefer the Disney pieces be more well-known.

I take the same position, but I think the former is more important than the latter. Guests should be able to know that they are in the Old West when they walk through the stockade of Frontierland without having the "Bonanza" theme announce that fact.

I would also say that one of the reasons the "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" finale appeals to me is because I'm not so sure letting Steven Spielberg get his hands on "When You Wish upon a Star" for the film was necessarily the right decision. However, the film later became recognized as a classic and it does fit a Disney style, more or less. The score, itself, is very Disneyesque, grandiose, and evocative, and the scenery with which the finale is associated is a memorable cinematic moment that has the potential to contribute to the idea of Tomorrowland, itself. Conversely, while I do like the "City Slickers" score in itself, for example, it doesn't do the same for Frontierland.

Audiences are much more sophisticated about these things than some people in the Disney organization give them credit for being.

TENORDRUMMER
05-26-2006, 08:27 AM
I have cd's for the Main Street music loop, as well as several versions of the music that is heard by the Main Gate and I love it all. I also remember hearing that song from Chitty as a teenager. I love it all and have no problem with it.