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crrees
04-28-2006, 07:47 PM
I have a friend who hates Disney. and if I could I would spend the rest of my life at the Disney parks all over the world. One reason that she hates Disney is because she says "Disney is evil, its become so money driven, DL when it first opened was for the kids, kids got in free, and only the adults had to pay" she even goes as far as to comparing Disney with Wal-mart and how much she hates them.

Unfortunately there is no way to change her mind but:

Did DL first open to children as free? Im only 20 and cant find it online at all but i thought id might ask my friends here at mouseplanet. Lemme know...

She is also a hippie who thinks shes perfect, so please dont bash her...she embarresses herself as it is

sleepyjeff
04-28-2006, 07:54 PM
When Disneyland first opened it only cost a buck to get in..........but you had to pay for each and every ride seperately. So even if kids were free to get into Disneyland they would have to pay to see and ride attractions.

AztecWolverine
04-28-2006, 09:33 PM
I'm not sure if they had the ticket books when they first opened, but not too long after that (and certainly while Walt was around) they had them, and that is what you got with the price of admission. And they certainly weren't any way near free. Our family would have to save up for a year to be able to afford to go to Disneyland, and we didn't stay at any hotels. And I know Walt had to mortgage every bit of property he owned, and put it up for collateral. When Disney opened it was deeply in debt. How in the world could they let those it was aimed for-children-get in for free? Ask your socialist friend if she thinks the USSR would ever have built such a wondrous thing as Disneyland, and whether she thinks that children would have been allowed in free. If she thinks Socialism is so great then I think she should visit Moscow for a week. She would quickly be disabused of that notion.
Getting back to the ticket books: the top rides were the infamous "E" ticket rides, and you only got so many of them, so you had to ration them & choose carefully what your favorite rides were! Most people would use all their "D" and "E" tickets, and be left with some "A" , "B", and maybe "C" coupons.
If Disney's attendance keeps going up, maybe they should reinstitute the ticket books--it prevents people from riding Space & Splash Mtns. repeatedly (unless they want to forego BTMR, the Matterhorn, Indy, etc. And it rather forces you to try less desireable attractions that you otherwise might not try. For ex., I remember using one of the A's or B's for the Main Street Cinema. When was the last time you visited that theater? (See the "I've never..." Forum). I think bringing back the ticket books might be a great nostalgic event--too bad they didn't bring them back for the 50th-it would have cut down on the lines! But your friend would probably see that as a crass marketing tool of the capitalistic Disney evil empire...
I think one of greatest things about the ticket books is that it teaches Children how to choose carefully how they spend their ticket currency. And the children couldn't be spoiled with a sense of entitlement. It was wonderful when kids had to be so judicious at Disney--I think it made the E ticket rides even more special and appreciated!
And if your friend thinks Walmart is so terrible, I wish she could see the eyes brighten of first time Russian visitors to the States when they walk into a Vons, Walmart, or Costco for the first time. They just can't believe that everything is for sale, and it is not just a display! They think they have gone to heaven....though, for myself, I've always thought Disney was quite close to that!:)

darph nader
04-29-2006, 02:10 AM
Hey ,if your friend doe'nt Disney,great.More for us. I agree there "some" aspects of Disney that are slighty upsetting,but jeeze to compare to Wal-Mart.FYI it's the 21st century.:rolleyes:

P.S. As Aztecwolverine stated about Walt being in debt,I read somewhere,someone was talking to Walt and said"you must be very rich" Walts reply was" I must be,they say I owe $10.000.000".

CousinPhil
04-29-2006, 02:40 AM
I think comparing Walmart to the Walt Disney Company is a bit of a stretch. I would hardly say that DisCo's business practices are on the same leel as Walmart. I mean, I'm as liberal as they come, but I still respect the Mouse. To me, Disney is more about the dreamers than the shareholders. I think of guys like Uncle Walt, Marc Davis and even John Lasseter now as the heart of what Disney stands for... not the folks like Eisner and Pressler.

While I do think that the comparably higher prices at Disney parks do prevent those of poor economic standing from being able enjoy it as much, I understand this it is perhaps simply the price of maintaining that high Disney quality. I look to Six Flags parks as the more reasonably priced, but considerably inferior theme park. Still, even though I fully believe in true socialism, I don't feel that entertainment is necessarily a right and entertainment companies shouldn't be lumped into the same categories as other corporations that provide goods and services.

/rant

kenban
04-29-2006, 06:55 AM
The whole Disney is evil and money driven is easy it has to be money driven. The following is for Disney World only. The maintance alone for the Magic Kingdom costs over $100 million a year (I assume Disneyland is similar). The only year I remember seeing a number on construction costs was 2004 and that was around $370 million (thats everything on property). Rides like EE cost over $100 million to build making them the most expensive rides on the planet. Universals newest ride revenge of the mummy only cost $40 million. Most theme parks don't make much money I know its hard to believe with the ticket prices but you would be surprised how little is left after the huge number of expenses involved in running a park. Disney is more the exception then the rule and even then most of the profit is from the hotels, food, and souvenirs. I suspect you would find Disney management now views the parks as a way to fill hotel rooms then actually making money on their own.

The ticket books and cheap admission were there from the day the park opened until 1982 when they went to the current system where you pay a single price for admission. Children under 3 years old were the only ones who got in free and they still do.

You know its funny Disney does have a few business practices that I believe she could have a real arguement about and nothing you listed would be it. I could understand her having a problem with the RCID but then thats Disney World not Disneyland.

momuvseven
04-29-2006, 09:14 AM
DH and I have done the math and Disneyland is cheaper and higher quality entertainment than the roadside carnies, state fair and Chuckee Cheese type places that charge by the ride/game/attraction.

With parkhoppers or annual passes our entry fee per person is usually around $30 a day. Of course the more we use our AP's the cheaper the per day price gets. Hotel and gas adds slightly to that cost. We don't count food because we have to eat even if we stay at home. Bonus for the under three crowd that get in for FREE, not possible anywhere else. Never have had a three year old ride anything for free anywhere else. For our $30 we get unlimited rides and attractions from open to close. On a recent morning between 0800-1200, April 19th, our kids rode Splash Mountain five times, went on Pooh Bear a half dozen times at least while waiting for the older ones to get off SM, saw Tigger, Pooh and Eeyore, went on Jungle Cruise, rode three times on Thunder Mountain RR and then topped it off with a Canoe Ride. We got our money's worth. No where else that we have been to has the caliber of E ticket rides available at Disneyland. If they were available the individual ticket price would be no less than $7 a ride.

For those interested we hit Jungle Cruise first no waiting, skipped Indy because it was broken down, went direct to Splash M, 3 oldest kids got in line while I got fast passes for 0850 using all of our tickets (6 fastpasses), by the time they got off they went back twice in a row with the fastpasses while I went and got six more at 0950. They then rode two more times. Mom and Dad and the toddler entertained ourselves on Pooh Bear, a bit boring for us old folks but the kids were all happy.

geoffa
04-29-2006, 12:54 PM
The whole Disney is evil and money driven is easy it has to be money driven....etc

You know its funny Disney does have a few business practices that I believe she could have a real arguement about and nothing you listed would be it. I could understand her having a problem with the RCID but then thats Disney World not Disneyland.

If you think Disney only make a small profit I suggest you have a look at their annual accounts - they make some darn interesting reading.Just but one share in the company and you'll get them sent every year. (However, last year (2005) is the first year that Disneyland Resort Paris has made any reasonable profit). I'm not so foolish to think that Disney is totally sugary sweet although I do enjoy visiting and it does leave incredible memories. I do realise though that it is a business after all. Might I suggest you get hold of "Team Rodent" by Carl Hiaasen or even Marc Eliot's "Walt Disney".
They make for some MORE interesting reading.:rolleyes:

Susan L
04-29-2006, 01:21 PM
I have a friend who hates Disney. and if I could I would spend the rest of my life at the Disney parks all over the world. One reason that she hates Disney is because she says "Disney is evil, its become so money driven, DL when it first opened was for the kids, kids got in free, and only the adults had to pay" she even goes as far as to comparing Disney with Wal-mart and how much she hates them.

Unfortunately there is no way to change her mind but:

Did DL first open to children as free? Im only 20 and cant find it online at all but i thought id might ask my friends here at mouseplanet. Lemme know...

She is also a hippie who thinks shes perfect, so please dont bash her...she embarresses herself as it is

You pay for everything. Money is what makes the world go around.
We live in a capitalistic society. Disneyland is evil. Well, if thats the case life in general is evil then.

When I was a kid way back in the 1960's living in LA area. We would go to DL about two or three times a year. I don't ever remember kids getting in free. Now I didn't have to pay for it my parents did so, to me it was free but, not for them.

You had to pay a general admission price and then you would have to buy ticket books. In these books were A,B,C,D, and E tickets. Each ride or attraction had a letter ticket assigned to it. My parent use to buy 6 of these books because, there were six of us and we would use every ticket in those books. You couldn't go on the rides over and over again like today unless, you could afford to buy more ticket books.

Going to DL was an all day event up early to be there when it opened and stay until closing. It was not a cheap day for mom and dad. On top of the admission price and ticket books there was also food and shopping. My parents would plan out which days during the year we would go to DL and they would save every penny just so we could go. Thanks mom and dad!

MortgageMan
04-29-2006, 04:34 PM
I don't think you'll get anything but frustrated trying to agrue with the "profits are evil" crowd.

As another poster talked about, an examination of the standard of living in socialist countries like Cuba or N. Korea might sway them, but why bother?

tod
04-29-2006, 05:12 PM
One reason that she hates Disney is because she says "Disney is evil, its become so money driven, DL when it first opened was for the kids, kids got in free, and only the adults had to pay"

It's tough to argue with people who have already made up their minds, and I suggest you don't waste your time.

I don't know how much they charged for tickets in the early years, so I can't help you there.

I will, however, point out that Walt Disney built Disneyland for whole families to enjoy together, and he decided this when he was sitting watching his daughters ride the kiddie rides... while he was sitting there watching them.

So there is at least one flaw in your friend's argument.

--t

CousinPhil
04-29-2006, 06:12 PM
I don't think you'll get anything but frustrated trying to agrue with the "profits are evil" crowd.

As another poster talked about, an examination of the standard of living in socialist countries like Cuba or N. Korea might sway them, but why bother?

Except that I can't recall one instance of a true social demoracy. Places like Cuba, N. Korea, China and especially the USSR have all been forms of totalitarian governments, oligarchies and fascist states. Unless there's something I haven't heard of, none of those countries had economies where the means of production were controlled and owned by the people, aka "socialism."

I think it's interesting what effects the anti-communist movement of the 1950's have even today, even on people like Walt Disney. Miseducation and mislabelling of socialism and communism are still pervasive with little done to correct the damage that people like Stalin, Mao and Kim Jong-il have to the image of socialism. Just because they call it "socialism" doesn't make it a real socialist state.

Bolivar
04-30-2006, 08:33 AM
I'm not sure where you are getting your definition of socialism, but based on my dictionary, North Korea, USSR, China, Cuba all fit the definition.

Main Entry: so•cial•ism
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Osky
04-30-2006, 10:42 AM
Did DL first open to children as free? Im only 20 and cant find it online at all but i thought id might ask my friends here at mouseplanet. Lemme know...

From the 50th museum tour:

When Walt Disney opened his legendary theme park on July 17, 1955, admission was $1 (50˘ for kids).

mowsluver
04-30-2006, 02:42 PM
A lot of good points here...I agree that DL ends up being less expensive than the local state fair and has better quality attractions...but the ONE thing I'd wish they w/could cut the price of is the food and drink...they serve McDonald-type bugers for way too much. I remember (and still have) plastic mugs from Coutry Bear Rest and miss getting them! I know there are 'ways around everything' but kids get hungry and thirsty often and don't always eat all they get because they are so anxious to enjoy more Mickey Magic. I know we would eat/drink more often, if the prices were a bit lower....a lot of those cranky youngsters out there might not be so cranky if they were well fed and hydrated...and less cranky parents at having to spend the same amount on a burger as they might spend on ameal somewhere else...I love DL and live on a very tight budget. Over the years I have introduced a number of families to the Magic and ALL of them say they have no problem with the admission, even the hotel & travel costs...but the FOOD!!!!!:eek:
Just my two cents thrown in here....

CousinPhil
04-30-2006, 03:10 PM
I got my information from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism.

At the end of the first paragraph it reads "A primary concern of socialism (and, according to some, its defining feature) is social equality and an equitable distribution of wealth that would serve the interests of society as a whole."

I highly doubt presidential palaces, secret police and other runoffs of a cult of personality are serving the better interests of society. Did Stalin's Purges really help to improve the country? When government officials and leaders live in considerably better living standards than a vast majority of the poplulace, is that promoting social equality?

Once again, any claims that these countries were/are socialist seems rather dubious to me when one of the primary tenets is shattered.

sleepyjeff
04-30-2006, 03:41 PM
I wonder how pleasant(magical if you will) Disneyland would be if prices were even slightly lower thant they are now???

Isn't the place crowded enough:confused: