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ErikBsandiego
04-19-2006, 04:58 PM
My father always argued that there was no way that the Canoes were not on some sort of guide wire - that given the "quality" of rowing it would be difficult for a canoe to actually move in the desired direction, much less in a relatively straigth line.

I always contented that he was wrong - that a guide rail system would actually be very difficult to make work given the other water craft on the ROA.

In later years I think that what must be going on is that the canoes actually have a KEEL, providing that extra help so that our intrepid CM guides can use their oar as a relatively effectively rudder.

What is the answer ex-CM?

Osky
04-19-2006, 05:11 PM
I'm not an ex-CM, and I cannot answer your question about a keel, but I can tell you with certainty that they are not attached to any kind of wire or track. On at least one occasion, I saw some CMs moving one of the canoes after the canoes were closed to guests, and at one point they were rowing round in circles just past the hungy bear.

Ragrobyn
04-19-2006, 05:18 PM
As a former river canoe guide I can tell you that the two guides do 90% of the work. The guy in the back does most of it. He leans into his paddle and can go anywhere. They are pretty burly. IF you know what I mean ;)

I was talking to one of the CM's on my las trip. He told me it was all them. He also told me that the Columbia and the MT were on rails but the canoes were not. They are large voyager canoes, so the boats are very stable. There is a keel on the bottom, but not too large. Other wise it would be difficult to paddle in a circle :D

tod
04-19-2006, 05:37 PM
A canoe guide once told me he used to get a load of guests and paddle into the inlet by the Indian Village, wait quietly, and then charge a following canoe, doing a seagoing Pitt maneuver and turning them around, compelling the victim canoe to backtrack to the inlet, the only place in the river wide enough to turn around in.

I don't think they could do this -- divert to the inlet or spin another canoe -- if the canoes were on tracks.

--t

cstephens
04-19-2006, 06:58 PM
The canoes are definitely not on tracks. I doubt that a track would take them so that they're beached. I remember hanging out on the far side of Tom Sawyer Island listening to Festival of Fools and watching as the CM accidentally steered the canoe into the shrubbery on the other side of us and had to wait for another canoe to come by to help them out of their jam!

hlbtimes2
04-19-2006, 07:30 PM
There is a little history of the canoes at yesterland.com Worth a minute of two to read.

bassett1976
04-19-2006, 07:44 PM
I had some pictures of the last time that they drained the RoA but I cannot seem to find them. I guess they were lost when my computer died... I do remember to rail for the Mark Twain and Columbia but nothing else, as stated before.

kimmybear
04-19-2006, 08:45 PM
the canoes are NOT on tracks. a web site, i can't remember which one, states that children must wear life vests because the boats are free standing.

i also know that they are not on a track because the boats are used in races. CMs from other places, i.e. WDW, race against the DL CMs. DL usually wins because the boats are heavier than the WDW boats.

they aren't rowing, it's paddling, seen in a similar sport called Dragon Boat, where there are side by side seats instead of single seats (crew).

you can ask the CMs about the races and they'll be happy to elaborate. :D

capst
04-20-2006, 12:44 AM
One time, many years ago, the guide exorted us to paddle hard, and we passed the canoe ahead of us. Not possible if we were on a track!

Another Dimension
04-20-2006, 12:46 AM
The Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes... are nowhere close to being on a track or guidewire... ;)

:D

cfrith
04-20-2006, 03:33 AM
We've never been on the canoes, do you think our 4 and 7 yr olds would like them?

MsYumiBr
04-20-2006, 05:02 AM
Your kids might like them but do not sit in front of them. You will bet soaked!

jswtsang
04-20-2006, 06:17 AM
Your kids might like them but do not sit in front of them. You will bet soaked!

You know, not to be a grouch or anything, but I sat infront of a 5 year old last time and he totally soaked me and his parents were laughing. I think that any kind parent would gently point out to their kid to paddle a little lighter or to stop splashing the lady with the green water. It was not fun to have wet pants for the rest of the afternoon and not even get so much of a "Sorry, you know kids" but just get someone laughing at me. Maybe if you have little ones you can ask that you all sit towards the front of the boat?

jt

kimmybear
04-20-2006, 06:34 AM
Your kids might like them but do not sit in front of them. You will bet soaked!

actually, it's not really where you sit, but how the paddle of the erson in front ot behind you enters the water. if it enters at at 90 degree angle or father ahead, you should be okay. but if the person is off from the rest of the people, usually the case, you'll get wet either way. it's all part of the experience. hmm.. do you think they filter the water or clean it in any way? :|

tod
04-20-2006, 07:02 AM
hmm.. do you think they filter the water or clean it in any way? :|

Quite the opposite: the Disney people dye it green and the birds make their own contributions.

--t

stan4d_steph
04-20-2006, 07:03 AM
A canoe guide once told me he used to get a load of guests and paddle into the inlet by the Indian Village, wait quietly, and then charge a following canoe, doing a seagoing Pitt maneuver and turning them around, compelling the victim canoe to backtrack to the inlet, the only place in the river wide enough to turn around in.That would be a very impressive event to witness.

Tinkermommy
04-20-2006, 10:23 AM
We've never been on the canoes, do you think our 4 and 7 yr olds would like them?

Yes! My daughter was six or seven the first time we went on them. She was really scared, and tried to back out at the last minute. She ended up loving it so much that we kept getting off and right back on. Great fun!

Funny story: on our first canoe ride, we were seated right in front of the rear CM. A lady in front of us spent the whole trip videotaping the scenery. The CM behind us kept trying to get her to contribute to the paddling effort, but she never did. He started this running monologue about people who don't paddle, and it was hilarious! She didn't seem to even notice. I always wished I could have been there when her family got home, played the video and heard the audio about the lady with the video camera...

Osky
04-20-2006, 11:33 AM
He started this running monologue about people who don't paddle, and it was hilarious! She didn't seem to even notice. I always wished I could have been there when her family got home, played the video and heard the audio about the lady with the video camera...

That's the beauty of being clueless. Often times the clueless are so clueless, that they do not even have a clue that they are clueless! ;):p

Malcon10t
04-20-2006, 11:36 AM
Yes! My daughter was six or seven the first time we went on them. She was really scared, and tried to back out at the last minute. She ended up loving it so much that we kept getting off and right back on. Great fun!

Funny story: on our first canoe ride, we were seated right in front of the rear CM. A lady in front of us spent the whole trip videotaping the scenery. The CM behind us kept trying to get her to contribute to the paddling effort, but she never did. He started this running monologue about people who don't paddle, and it was hilarious! She didn't seem to even notice. I always wished I could have been there when her family got home, played the video and heard the audio about the lady with the video camera...My kids like this ride, I think MickeyDogMom mainly likes it for the male CMs paddling. But everytime they ride, there also a few that don't paddle. What I have notice is those do seem to get wetter than the rest of the people in the canoes.

tod
04-20-2006, 12:12 PM
Funny story: on our first canoe ride, we were seated right in front of the rear CM. A lady in front of us spent the whole trip videotaping the scenery. The CM behind us kept trying to get her to contribute to the paddling effort, but she never did. He started this running monologue about people who don't paddle, and it was hilarious! She didn't seem to even notice. I always wished I could have been there when her family got home, played the video and heard the audio about the lady with the video camera...

I did something like that once (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showpost.php?p=702422&postcount=30). Although it's funny, I'm not proud of it.

--t

kimmybear
04-20-2006, 12:16 PM
My kids like this ride, I think MickeyDogMom mainly likes it for the male CMs paddling.

the CMs do over half the work- watch them "launch" the boat out of the dock. :D

Malcon10t
04-20-2006, 12:24 PM
the CMs do over half the work- watch them "launch" the boat out of the dock. :DOh, I would credit them for more like 90%. I usually wait with the dog up on the dock, while the kids take on the canoes. Its fun to watch. I think my favorite saying on that ride is that from behind, the Mark Twain is just the Mark Twain, but when the Mark Twain is behind them, it's the SS Inspiration!

Frogberto
04-20-2006, 03:49 PM
This post was timely. I was in Disneyland two Sundays ago, and I heard a mother daughter argument that went like this:

Daughter: "No, really, they are not".

Mother: "No way. I mean, there is NO WAY that Disneyland would let untrained people handle canoes unless they were on a track. No WAY!"

I wanted to butt in, but figured it was better if I just walked to a ride.

MrTomMorrow
04-20-2006, 03:50 PM
Yeah, the last time the river was drained, there was only one track visible, and that was for the Mark Twain and the SS Columbia. No track for the canoes...

MickeyDogMom
04-20-2006, 05:36 PM
I think MickeyDogMom mainly likes it for the male CMs paddling.

Ahhh... those male river guides, very nice. :D

But more on point I hate it when people get on and don't try to help. We went with our local SUNDAY SCHOOL teacher and she was soo ticked she kept splashing (as did my bros and I) the lazies in front and behind us. If you just want to sit, go on the Mark Twain. If it's little kids I give them a chance, they're no help anyway but the adults should do something. I feel bad for the CM's who have to do all the work.

I want to get my karate team down there and take a canoe to see how fast we can get it to go. Maybe there's a rowing team at my college I can get to go? Hmmm... :~D