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View Full Version : 'Adventure' in sister's shadow - Orange County Register, 1/28/06



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Darkbeer
01-28-2006, 08:27 PM
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/homepage/article_970968.php

QuikQuote: "They just made a core mistake with this (California) theme," Lutz said. "It alienated the locals, and, unlike Florida, our attendance is mostly locals. To get people to come now, they're giving that park away with the two-fers."
Lutz was referring to the promotion announced this month that allows local residents to buy a pass that's good for admission to the two parks on two different days.
Hanna, from TEA, agreed that the theme is a tough sell for Californians: "It's like selling snow to Eskimos. It's a much better place to visit if you're from out of town."

Another Dimension
01-28-2006, 08:41 PM
Sorry.. (well, not really), but people who seem always to speak for everyone, or large amounts of people are always incorrect.


I know dozens of Californians who ... like, love, visit, voluntarily spread positive word of mouth about .. and don't feel the irrational addicitive need to repeatedly slam a fun little theme park, every single day of their lives.

Those are the Californians opinions that should be heard and published.


Another anti-DCA article.. that's imaginative, original and creative. :rolleyes:

JeffG
01-28-2006, 09:20 PM
So is the Orange County Register just re-printing 3-4 year old articles when it is a slow news day?

-Jeff

Darkbeer
01-28-2006, 09:23 PM
Looks like a new story to me...

Ended up on the Front Page of the Business Section, taking up most of the page above the fold.

SoCalDude
01-28-2006, 09:52 PM
Another anti-DCA article.. that's imaginative, original and creative. :rolleyes:

Yup

sambo
01-28-2006, 10:33 PM
Sorry.. (well, not really), but people who seem always to speak for everyone, or large amounts of people are always incorrect.


I know dozens of Californians who ... like, love, visit, voluntarily spread positive word of mouth about .. and don't feel the irrational addicitive need to repeatedly slam a fun little theme park, every single day of their lives.

Those are the Californians opinions that should be heard and published.


Another anti-DCA article.. that's imaginative, original and creative. :rolleyes:


And there is the vast middle ground of Californians - such as myself - who think the theme and name were wrong from the start, and are every bit as wrong today. It hasn't stopped me from going there and enjoying myself though. There is enough there now to make the little park fun despite living in the shadow of a giant.

Still, the name and theme are icky...

CaptainHook15
01-28-2006, 10:56 PM
As a Californian, born and bred, I have always thought the idea of DCA was dumb. Would you spend the money to fly to France only to see a small replica version of the Eiffel Tower? Would you travel to Germany to eat Oscar Mayer Hotdogs and drink non-alcoholic beer? Would you travel to China to only see pictures of the Great Wall of China?

Have I made my point?

Without Soarin and ToT, DCA is just a few steps above, basically a really clean State Fair.

Most of, not all, but most of the things you can see/do in DCA can be done FOR REAL by only driving a few hours... and probably less money (well gas might change that nowadays).

Disneyland enables you, among MANY other things, to travel back to the Old West, to travel TO the future, to enter the land of make believe... things you just cant do anywhere else. It's unique.

DCA is a pretty park. So if $60 is what it's worth to walk around and look at stuff, eat and drink good (overpriced) food and ride some carnival rides... DCA is your slice of heaven.

The park has it's charm I will admit.... but I also have a fondness for red-headed step-children too! ;)


I love all things Disney, but I really can't defend this park.

Just my 2-cents from a Californian who's voice SOME people think should't be heard. :D

olegc
01-28-2006, 11:06 PM
So is the Orange County Register just re-printing 3-4 year old articles when it is a slow news day?

-Jeff

It may not be new news... but I wonder what Al had to give up/give away to convince the OC register to write about it - AGAIN!

Oh, I see, they added two new rides in the last 2 years and the "claim" is that TDA expects this to fix the attendance problem. Don't believe the hype from that man behind the other site. THis is an issue that's well known and has been written about ad nauseum - the attendance of DCA will not significantly improve until they have significantly added a number of key attractions, changed some theming, and offered as many unique entertainment and visitor-reasons to return. THat, from what I read 2 years ago, would take 5 to 10 years. So - we're 2 years in, maybe 8 more to go.

Let's talk again in 2013 shall we?

experiment626
01-29-2006, 07:49 AM
What surprises anyone that DCA is not as popular as Disneyland (Park).

Look at any of the other Disney Resorts are any of the other parks as popular as the Magic Kingdom/Disneyland?? It would be very hard for Disney to make a second, third, fifth themepark in a single resort that will be equally or more popular then the MK.

Darkbeer
01-29-2006, 08:10 AM
Tokyo is close, with 13 million visting Tokyo Disneyland, and 12 million visiting Tokyo Disney Sea.

And TDS was built the same time DCA was....

Darkbeer
01-29-2006, 09:14 AM
And looking at Orlando, while the Magic Kingdom had over 16 million, EPCOT got about 2/3'rds of the attendance at 9.9 million.

If you take all the other Disney parks in Orlando, they had a combined attendance of about 30.5 million, so only about 1/3 of the folks are visiting the Magic Kingdom (Total Disney attendance in Orlando was 46.5 million per the AB/ERA numbers).

Here in Anaheim, almost 3/4'rds of the 20 million folks decided to visit Disneyland.

So it is about a 1/3'rd in Orlando

About 1/2 in Tokyo

And 3/4 in Anaheim.

Looks like there is a big difference in park attendance, and DCA is not drawing them in. Anaheim is also the park that is getting the largest discounts on Admission, with things like "Kids Free with Adult" Advance Purchase ParkHoppers, the "Adults at the Kids Price" Advance Purchase ParkHoppers, and the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for FREE!" SoCal special.

I think this paragraph from the OC Register article makes a good point.





Another impediment for California Adventure is the sophistication of Southern California's audience, said Craig Hanna, an industry expert. He's chief creative officer for Thinkwell Design & Productionand president of the board of TEA, an association that represents the professionals who create theme parks and similar immersive experiences.
"When you look at the pricing being on par with that of Disneyland, it doesn't take long to see the disparity in the two parks, and people wonder if they're getting the same value for their money," Hanna said. "Disney does a great job once you're in the gate delivering compelling experiences, but it's a struggle for the locals to make that decision."



And when DCA has been given the nickname, the Disney Universal Mountain Berry Park, it shows that many folks feel that the park has some bits and pieces of the other local theme parks, and when they are offering things like half-price admission, if you were a local family wainting to spend a day out, price makes a difference, but also, why go to the "knock-off" (DCA), when you can get the real thing? As a coaster fan, I much prefer Knott's or SFMM since there is a lot more of them to experience. Want to see Hollywood, just drive there, or take a Metro Line. Want to see a working studio, that is USH, heck you could do both on the same day.

I think that the folks who came up with the DCA concept forgot one big thing, that Disneyland was designed to attract locals, being placed in the middle of the SoCal area. They came up with a "Hip and Edgy" park, that they thought would bring in folks to visit for the day, and were hoping for not many kids, but more two income childless couples that have more spending power, especially for food and merchandise, and the upscale stuff that has a higher profit margin. We have seen things changed in the last 5 years, as Disney has been learning from its mistakes, but there is still a long way to go before DCA becomes the "Stand Alone" park that Disney was hoping for when they opened the park.

ILovePoker
01-29-2006, 09:30 AM
You know what? I finally get it now. The California Adventure haters are only whining like little children because they didn't get what they wanted, it's typical behaviour of a child really. All I'm going to say is grow up. As many of you are fully grown adults who hate the park, you really can show a childish and immature side. I've never seen grown people spend so much time beating a dead horse like this. If this park is so bad, why do the haters repeatedly visit? Why do they visit and take pictures of empty walkways? If I wanted to, I could find a nice picture of Disneyland with an empty walkway and claim it is failing as well. I'll be back and I'll get right on it finding a picture of Disneyland's failure. :)

cfrith
01-29-2006, 09:37 AM
So what can Disney do to improve DCA??? I agree with the fact that locals don't want a park that has tons of things they've already experienced in real life. Isn't it too late to change all that though?

disneyjunkie
01-29-2006, 09:52 AM
This may be premature but with all the negative hype for DCA, which I rather enjoy with the exception that its the same $ as DL, does anyone see a Pixarland sign lurking in the back lots?

cstephens
01-29-2006, 10:18 AM
Lather, rinse, repeat.

3894
01-29-2006, 12:05 PM
Out-of-towner here and it's a tough sell to me, too.

CaptainHook15
01-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Someone brought up attendance figures and comparing DCA to MK/DL.

I'm not sure anyone thought/hoped/wanted DCA to outshine DL... I think we just wanted something we enjoyed going to more than once or twice AND that was worth the price of admission. I personally had never been to DCA until this past Jan. I was looking forward to it. After 4 hours I had seen all I wanted to and have no real desire to go back. I certainly wasn't trying to not like it. Choosing to hate it serves no purpose. I think we can find faults with all the parks...but I think we also can find enough good there to at least even it out, if not make it a small or moot point. DCA has way more faults than good points. I mean really, when was the last time you woke up and said, "Gee, I really want to go to the carnival!" Or when have your kids ever said, "Mommy and Daddy, can we please go to either a tortilla factory, or a bread factory, or a winery?! Pretty please!"

But back to 2005 attendance figures for a moment.

MK - 16.1 million
DL - 14.5 million

The least favorite Disney park in Florida (attendance wise) is AK at 8.2 million. Roughly half of MK and it has to fight for patrons with 2 additional Disney owned parks and 2 Universal parks and SeaWorld. It beats it's nearest non-Disney competition by 2.1 million customers! FYI- all these parks rank in the top 9, so competition is good.

DCA - 5.8 million. About 1.4 million shy of half of DL, and no other Disney parks to contend with. Knott's and Six Flags are it's only competition and they rank 15th and 22nd respectively with a combined 6.27 million visitors. Is that really competition anyway? Who knows.

I just think DCA needs a BIG makeover. Then I will happily return and spend gobs of cash and talk about it lovingly like all the other parks!

sambo
01-29-2006, 11:09 PM
You know what? I finally get it now. The California Adventure haters are only whining like little children because they didn't get what they wanted, it's typical behaviour of a child really. All I'm going to say is grow up. As many of you are fully grown adults who hate the park, you really can show a childish and immature side. I've never seen grown people spend so much time beating a dead horse like this. If this park is so bad, why do the haters repeatedly visit? Why do they visit and take pictures of empty walkways? If I wanted to, I could find a nice picture of Disneyland with an empty walkway and claim it is failing as well. I'll be back and I'll get right on it finding a picture of Disneyland's failure. :)

Why do you hate America so much?


See - it's easy to keep conflict alive by tossing the hate word in there when someone disagrees with your point of view. Sorry - I'm not nibbling on your chum. I certainly don't hate DCA, I have a good time when I'm there. Because I - and many others - point out the flaws that need fixing to make it a BETTER park does not mean we are whining little children. I think those who can't discuss the issues openly in a civilized fashion without crying hater when someone disagrees, are the ones being childish and immature.

Please, let's focus on DCA and what will solve the problems, not on what other's personality traits are...

ILovePoker
01-29-2006, 11:42 PM
Why do you hate America so much?


See - it's easy to keep conflict alive by tossing the hate word in there when someone disagrees with your point of view. Sorry - I'm not nibbling on your chum. I certainly don't hate DCA, I have a good time when I'm there. Because I - and many others - point out the flaws that need fixing to make it a BETTER park does not mean we are whining little children. I think those who can't discuss the issues openly in a civilized fashion without crying hater when someone disagrees, are the ones being childish and immature.

Please, let's focus on DCA and what will solve the problems, not on what other's personality traits are...
Typical poster behaviour: The park is awful, it sucks, I wanted Westcot. Boohoo. It's not Disneyland, Boo-hoo, OMG look at that chipped paint! Flaws in your opinion, which may not be true. Obviously, many beat the dead horse for a while now unless you held your head in the sand. People have been repeating themselves beyond return of how it's faulty and how this should have been done etc. Seriously, do regular out of state visitors who come every once a year break down and point out, OMG there is chipped paint on a park bench! No they don't. These people who hate the park overanalyze every single thing about the park until it just won't be enjoyable to them, yet they still keep on visiting! Say what you want, I don't see how anyone who received a reality check like that would feel nice and warm after it.:D Have a great day.:fez:

Yes, you nipped it right in the bud, I truly hate America.;)

PapiBear
01-30-2006, 12:04 AM
For the most part I've not understood DCA's thematic existence and have questioned it and harangued against it before.

The first time I went, I enjoyed parts of it, but I still wondered if it was worth the expense. I went again last summer, and I had a much better time than previously (although the first time wasn't a total loss - I particularly enjoyed the Disney Animation Building and One Man's Dream, as well as Soarin' Over California and, because it was actually working, California Screamin', which I thought was an awesome coaster; this last time I went on Tower of Terror, which scared the bejesus out of me), but, upon reflection, I still see DCA having a thematic struggle.

This is most notably evident in the Paradise Pier area, which seems more like a recreation of Coney Island or the Jersey Boardwalk than anything particularly related to California. Also, while I enjoyed the free tortilla and sourdough bread samples, I think that whole area just sorta takes up a lot of space, and for what thematic purpose? To tell us that tortillas and bread are made and sold in California? Whee. I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy edutainment and I think Disney theme parks are wonderful when they're educating and entertaining at the same time (I enjoyed Golden Dreams immensely), but, really, tortillas and bread? That's a lot of prime real estate being used up with little thematic substance.

I think DCA needs a bit of an overhaul, particularly in the southwestern most portion of the park. Revamp all of Paradise Pier, all of it. We got the real Pacific Ocean and the real California beach scene only a half hour or so from the park. Why recreate Coney Island 15 miles from Huntington Beach? Turn the Pacific Wharf section into something else; it seems like the redheaded stepchild of the Golden State land anyway. A Bug's Land? Meh. It's all right and the kids like it, but what does it really have to do with California, other than being "Pixarland"? Hollywood Pictures Backlot is fine, although it could use a little extra jazzing up (more shops and eateries would be nice). Sunshine Plaza and Golden State are fine as is; I don't really see any reason to change them.

SandraVB79
01-30-2006, 12:20 AM
Typical poster behaviour: The park is awful, it sucks, I wanted Westcot. Boohoo. It's not Disneyland, Boo-hoo, OMG look at that chipped paint! Flaws in your opinion, which may not be true. Obviously, many beat the dead horse for a while now unless you held your head in the sand. People have been repeating themselves beyond return of how it's faulty and how this should have been done etc. Seriously, do regular out of state visitors who come every once a year break down and point out, OMG there is chipped paint on a park bench! No they don't. These people who hate the park overanalyze every single thing about the park until it just won't be enjoyable to them, yet they still keep on visiting! Say what you want, I don't see how anyone who received a reality check like that would feel nice and warm after it.:D Have a great day.:fez:

Yes, you nipped it right in the bud, I truly hate America.;)

For the couple of times I have been there, I have never remarked chipped paint, but maybe that's because I was too excited about the nice things that I didn't notice those flaws (sp?).
Do I hate the park? NOT AT ALL! Do I love it like DL? Not really, but I like to go there whenever I'm over in California.
I love Soarin', Screaming, GRR and ToT. I liked the Golden Dreams movie the first 5 times I saw it. Hey, for us California is really the state of dreams, and we like to see some of the things they show in the movie, like how the Railroad was built and so.
Do I care about a Tortilla or bread bakery or vinery? Not really, and not at all in a theme park. I like to visit companies like that, but only when I can visit the real thing, and not a rip-off in a Disney-park.

I like the idea behind the park: offer the whole California experience in a theme park. I just think it's rather sad they chose the California-themes so... randomly.
If you ak people over here about what they think California is, they will answer you: Hollywood, San Francisco with Golden Gate Bridge and Cable Cars, Gold Rush, Railroad, Earthquake and Beach. In the best case they'll know also that California makes wine and that it has mountains. Hollywood is somewhat represented (they really need a walk of Disney-fame! put stars in the sidewalk!!) There is a Golden Gate bridge (waaw...) and apparently a San Francisco area to me (not really obvious IMO... I don't know where it is. Where was the Cable Car (some transportation from one side of the park to the other one would be wonderful! thank you very much)? where was the crookedest street? Where were the steep hills??) Railroad? Didn't see it. Gold rush? Now that would be a good theme for a POTC- or a Splash Mountain-type ride. Earthquake? No such ride (a simulator could do this.) Beach? Well, I guess Paradise Pier is Disney's idea of "Beach". Our idea of beach is rescuers in red/orange bathing suits and surfers getting eaten (sp?) by sharks (yes, I watched too much Baywatch, as did all the others over here, lol!) Big waves, sand, beach volley, .... Bring Lilo and Stitch for a California-vacation and let us all surf with them!

I like the aviation theme around Soarin', but it isn't exactly what we know about California, or what we think about California. The area around Soarin', is very nicly themed, but it's also rather "empty".
Route 66... I know from the boards there is supposed to be an area themed like that, it wasn't very obvious to me... Route 66 are Harleys and neon-lighted cafes and so (Sorry, I only know Route 66 from my visits to Texas/ Oklahoma). Let us discover the Route 66 on a ride where you board a Harley!!! Now that would be cool!

GRR: wonderful ride, wonderful area, yet again so empty. Provide some information for out-of-state/ out-of-country visitors about the area they want to represent. Create an attraction like the Wild West Fort at DLP: it's a walk-through exhibit about a fort; well, create a walk-through exhibit about teh California mountains.

Another thing we kow about California: SHOPPING! (everyone who has seen Pretty Woman knows there is something like Beverly Hills. Create a nice shopping area themed like Rodeo Drive, and create some nice Disney stores, each selling there range of NICE merchandise (read my nice as more expensive and not the usual "cheap" stuff.) I am not talking plastic toys or glittery pens for children, but nice household items, nice clothing (Donaldson-like, not the regular theme park shirts with huge prints), nice jewelry, a nice book store, ... The area doesn't have to be huge, just create a nice area with some theming!!!

Ah, so many ideas, some probably more feasible than others, so it's not impossible to change some things about the park!!

SandraVB79
01-30-2006, 12:58 AM
And now that I am thinking about it (thinking on a Monday morning... no wonder my head hurts! ;) ) a China town would be nice too, and that also gives options for some more exotic themed things, like a Mulan-themed ride, and some other food options. For as far as I know, you can't get Chinese food in the parks, or am I wrong on this?
It would also offer an opportunity to introduce a Chinese New Year season, with a parade with dancing dragons, ...
Think about all the merchandise you could sell, Disney!!! (now THAT would make them listen, don't you think??)

Uncle Remus
01-30-2006, 10:02 PM
Another anti-DCA article.. that's imaginative, original and creative. :rolleyes:
ha kind of like the park itself.. bum bum chhh! (drums.... in case you were wondering)

chrisaustx
01-30-2006, 10:36 PM
In my opinion, the destruction of Uncle Walt's parking lot should have been for a grand, outstanding project, one in which that would expand Disneyland beyond any dream Walt ever had. Instead, the destruction of the parking lot has brought us: carnival games, a bread factory and a sea gull pond. I think many at Disney now understand what a mistake DCA was, and plans are being crafted to put greatness back into Uncle Walt's parking lot. If I would have been told: would you rather have a 45 year old parking lot, or a sea gull pond, I would have opted for the parking lot to remain. But I have faith in the future of Disneyland, that some great changes will come to DCA in the next 5 years, and it will be a great park as we all hoped it would be 5 years ago.

PeoplemoverMisser
01-30-2006, 10:39 PM
that's imaginative, original and creative. :rolleyes:


More like repetetive, redundant and repetitive;)