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Disney Village
11-25-2005, 10:52 PM
According to Daddy B’s photo update on 11/21, the Dickens Carolers are not singing traditional Christmas Carols, but instead singing modern holiday songs and doing campy Elvis impersonations.

I’ll be there next weekend to see for myself, but anyone else notice this? Was wondering if maybe they were just mixing it up a bit or if traditional carols are no longer being sung and why?

Would Disney be trying to shy away from the more religious themed Christmas carols to appeal to a larger demographic? If so, that would be a shame…I hope they are still signing the more traditional Christmas songs.

3894
11-26-2005, 06:41 AM
Would Disney be trying to shy away from the more religious themed Christmas carols to appeal to a larger demographic? If so, that would be a shame…I hope they are still signing the more traditional Christmas songs.

I hope so, too! Even if you wanted to shy away from the religious-themed carols, you could still sing "Deck The Halls" and "Jingle Bells" and so on.

Darkbeer
11-26-2005, 07:56 AM
If you want a park that is not afraid to mention Christmas, then Knott's is for you...

Went last night, and they use the Christmas Story (as told by Linus) as part of the Christmas Tree Lighting.

They offer "A Christmas Carol" and "The Gift of the Magi" in the Bird Cage Theater.

Plus "It's Christmas, Snoopy" on Ice, plus Christmas themed shows at the Calico Saloon and the Camp Snoopy Theater.

Disney Village
11-26-2005, 03:18 PM
If you want a park that is not afraid to mention Christmas, then Knott's is for you...

Very interesting.

Not that I would want or expect Disney to have overt religious overtones to their Christmas celebration, but if you look closely, there is very little reference to the word "Christmas" in any of their literature. I just was on Disneyland.com looking for Christmas info and events and it struck me odd that other then the title "Christmas Fantasy Parade" (which has had the name for some time) I couldn't find any other reference to the word Christmas. Its all "Holiday" and "Seasons Greetings"...even the Christmas tree is described as a "Goldenized Tree". It’s more like "Holidaymas" now.

Oh well, I'm looking forward to going next week and enjoying all the decor and festivities...the symbolism is what's important...also the Candlelight Processional is very Christmas oriented.

Niwel
11-26-2005, 11:19 PM
My goal on the 11th will be to get them to sing either "Chanukah o' Chanukah" or "I Had a Little Dreidel" :)

disneyhound
11-27-2005, 01:50 PM
My goal on the 11th will be to get them to sing either "Chanukah o' Chanukah" or "I Had a Little Dreidel" :)oay vey...

sleepyjeff
11-27-2005, 03:48 PM
Its all "Holiday" and "Seasons Greetings"...even the Christmas tree is described as a "Goldenized Tree". It’s more like "Holidaymas" now.



Jokes on them....Holiday means Holly Day;)

DaddyB
11-27-2005, 04:10 PM
I didn't intend to say that the carolers don't sing ANY christmas carols, it's just that they're including songs like "Rocking around the Christmas tree" and "Santa Bring My Baby Back to Me" complete with Elvis impersonation.

If Disney had used a simple "acapella christmas group" tag for these singers on Main street, I wouldn't have much of a problem (other than it wouldn't fit with the Main Street early century theme). It's that they're "DICKENS" carolers singing contemporary Christmas songs that bothers me, and thus my rant.

twist1980
11-27-2005, 04:19 PM
Very interesting.

Not that I would want or expect Disney to have overt religious overtones to their Christmas celebration, but if you look closely, there is very little reference to the word "Christmas" in any of their literature. I just was on Disneyland.com looking for Christmas info and events and it struck me odd that other then the title "Christmas Fantasy Parade" (which has had the name for some time) I couldn't find any other reference to the word Christmas. Its all "Holiday" and "Seasons Greetings"...even the Christmas tree is described as a "Goldenized Tree". It’s more like "Holidaymas" now.

Oh well, I'm looking forward to going next week and enjoying all the decor and festivities...the symbolism is what's important...also the Candlelight Processional is very Christmas oriented.

It isn't just Disney's fault. It seems that the whole country tries to supress Christmas. It just isn't PC enough. Last year a lot of companies banned Christmas music in their stores so they wouldn't offend anyone (Starbucks, by the way is one company that said they would not stop playing Christmas songs, so applause there). And its not just Christmas. How ridiculous is it to get rid of the Pledge of Allegience because it mentions God. If you have a problem with a holiday or other things ignore it. I don't celebrate Hanukkah, but I'm certainly not offended by it!

DianeM
11-27-2005, 05:08 PM
This is nonsense. If you'd bothered to read the entire thread, you would know that DaddyB has written that they ARE singing Christmas Carols, he was simply offended that they were ALSO singing more modern songs that seemed inappropriate for the occasion. Nobody is trying to ban Christmas. That's a myth being spread by people who will gain politically/financially if they can convince gullible Christians that they are being persecuted. Please don't try to politicize DL. If DL is encouraging people to have a Happy Holiday Season it is because their guests are from all parts of the world and all cultures, and they want to be as inclusive as possible. American's used to be proud of our inclusiveness, instead of critical of it. DL is NOT political or religious, it is a place of happiness to be shared by people of all political persuasions and religious faiths.


It isn't just Disney's fault. It seems that the whole country tries to supress Christmas. It just isn't PC enough. Last year a lot of companies banned Christmas music in their stores so they wouldn't offend anyone (Starbucks, by the way is one company that said they would not stop playing Christmas songs, so applause there). And its not just Christmas. How ridiculous is it to get rid of the Pledge of Allegience because it mentions God. If you have a problem with a holiday or other things ignore it. I don't celebrate Hanukkah, but I'm certainly not offended by it!

Darkbeer
11-27-2005, 05:25 PM
This is nonsense. If you'd bothered to read the entire thread, you would know that DaddyB has written that they ARE singing Christmas Carols, he was simply offended that they were ALSO singing more modern songs that seemed inappropriate for the occasion. Nobody is trying to ban Christmas. That's a myth being spread by people who will gain politically/financially if they can convince gullible Christians that they are being persecuted. Please don't try to politicize DL. If DL is encouraging people to have a Happy Holiday Season it is because their guests are from all parts of the world and all cultures, and they want to be as inclusive as possible. American's used to be proud of our inclusiveness, instead of critical of it. DL is NOT political or religious, it is a place of happiness to be shared by people of all political persuasions and religious faiths.

But I have noticed that the park used to be more patriotic in the past, but it has been toned down.

For Example, the ending of the original Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln had some great music, and made you proud to be an American. The Fireworks used to always end with a Patriotic finale. Attractions like America Sings and the America the Beauitiful CircleVision film.

Seems like Disney has been trying to town down and eliminate Patriotic things, and mentions of Christmas.

For Example, let's look at the latest issue of the AP newsletter, the Backstage Pass.

The issue does mention the Christmas Tree, and the Christmas Parade, but basically every other mention is things like holiday magic.

Deogge's Mom went on the Holiday Tour at Disneyland on Thanksgiving, and she said that the Tour Guide did not mention Christmas except in regards to the Christmas Tree. I think that is wrong, and what should happen is that people should mention Christmas, but also other holidays like Chanukkah.

Darkbeer
11-27-2005, 05:34 PM
Here is an interestig news story...

http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-11-25T225326Z_01_KRA582362_RTRUKOC_0_US-LIFE-TREE.xml




Boston set off a furor this week when it officially renamed a giant tree erected in a city park a "holiday tree" instead of a "Christmas tree."

The Nova Scotia logger who cut down the 48-foot (14-meter) tree was indignant and said he would not have donated the tree if he had known of the name change.

"I'd have cut it down and put it through the chipper," Donnie Hatt told a Canadian newspaper. "If they decide it should be a holiday tree, I'll tell them to send it back. If it was a holiday tree, you might as well put it up at Easter."

But the controversy cast a pall over a long-standing tradition between Boston and Canada. Nova Scotia donates a tree each year to Boston in gratitude for the city's help after an explosion killed about 1,900 people and injured 4,000 others in Halifax in 1917.

DianeM
11-27-2005, 06:13 PM
Mr. Lincoln will be back and just as patriotic after they finish the retrospective show (at least I haven't heard otherwise). America Sings and Circlevision simply went to the place that all rides that get too expensive to maintain or don't attract enough visitors go. They weren't so much patriotic as nostalgic, anyway. I remember my favorite ride was Adventures through Inner Space. They canned it, but I have no reason to believe that it was because they were trying to downplay science. Constitution Hall in Disney World is one of the most patriotic exhibits I've seen anywhere. Right now the DL focus in on the 50th anniversary - that doesn't leave a lot of room for other types of celebrations. It's not a plot to denigrate America.

They mention CHRISTMAS tree and CHRISTMAS parade quite prominently, so I can't see how they are trying to eliminate all references to Christmas. As for other references, you try saying "Happy Hannukah and Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanza" 10 times fast. "Happy Holidays" is inclusive, friendly, and a lot easier to say. Besides, if they did mention every holiday, I guarantee you some people would be offended because THEIR holiday (which THEY KNOW to be the MOST important) is being given equal footing to the others.

Regardless - Disneyland is not in the business of either patriotism or religion. They are in the business of selling a product that makes people happy. All people - of all different countries, political persuasion's, and faiths. If you want to celebrate America, then fly a flag pay your taxes and wear red, white and blue - DL will welcome you. If you want to worship, I suggest going to a church, which is likely to be more conducive to worship than a crowded theme park. Don't expect DL to be a significant source for spiritual succor. It's not policial or religious. Why should they be? Do you really want DL to start promoting religion?


But I have noticed that the park used to be more patriotic in the past, but it has been toned down.

For Example, the ending of the original Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln had some great music, and made you proud to be an American. The Fireworks used to always end with a Patriotic finale. Attractions like America Sings and the America the Beauitiful CircleVision film.

Seems like Disney has been trying to town down and eliminate Patriotic things, and mentions of Christmas.

For Example, let's look at the latest issue of the AP newsletter, the Backstage Pass.

The issue does mention the Christmas Tree, and the Christmas Parade, but basically every other mention is things like holiday magic.

Deogge's Mom went on the Holiday Tour at Disneyland on Thanksgiving, and she said that the Tour Guide did not mention Christmas except in regards to the Christmas Tree. I think that is wrong, and what should happen is that people should mention Christmas, but also other holidays like Chanukkah.

sleepyjeff
11-27-2005, 06:30 PM
Mr. Lincoln will be back and just as patriotic after they finish the retrospective show (at least I haven't heard otherwise).

Which Mr. Lincoln will return? The tear jerker Patriotic one we had for so many years or the later one that lost all patirotic chords in favor of a pale attempt at humor?:(

Darkbeer
11-27-2005, 07:03 PM
Sleppyjeff got it, I was talking about the ORIGINAL, which was much more patriotic than the new show with the headphones.

At least the original show was part of the 6 CD set released this year :)

Interesting to watch the Special ABC broadcast from July 17th, 1955. They had a group of religious leaders, said a prayer, and played the National Anthem before starting the parade.

pisces
11-28-2005, 08:58 AM
My understanding was that these carolers take requests. So, I would think that if enough people "request" traditional carols.....they'll sing 'em.

DianeM
11-28-2005, 09:03 AM
I liked the original better myself. But nobody went to it. Okay, I went, but the hall was always pretty empty when I went. I don't know if attendance has gone up or down with the new show, but if it goes down, they will either go back to the old show or replace the entire Mr. Lincoln exhibit, which would be a shame. But DL is not in the business of selling the United States of America. It is in the business of selling Mickey Mouse and Company. If people show support for a particular exhbit by filling the seats, they keep it. If not, they change it.


Which Mr. Lincoln will return? The tear jerker Patriotic one we had for so many years or the later one that lost all patirotic chords in favor of a pale attempt at humor?:(

TowerofTerror
11-28-2005, 09:15 AM
It`s too bad they wont have the carolers this year.

DaddyB
11-28-2005, 10:12 AM
It`s too bad they wont have the carolers this year. Oh Lord.

DianeM
11-28-2005, 10:28 AM
LOL. It's really very funny how people can take things and twist them sometimes. It's okay, though. I only wish I could go to DL this Christmas and see the carolers myself. Your pictures were wonderful, and gave me a taste of something beautiful. I can't go next year (we have to go to Canada every other year to visit my husband's family), but the year after... I'll be there. Thanks for the pictures. :-)


Oh Lord.

cstephens
11-28-2005, 12:00 PM
So there's an uproar because someone misrepresented what someone else said? I too was unhappy that they weren't singing *any* traditional Christmas carols anymore. That they're singing more modern ones, I don't care. Now that it's been clarified (thanks DaddyB), I'll go to listen to the carolers without feeling like I need to march into City Hall to complain.

tod
11-28-2005, 12:06 PM
Interesting to watch the Special ABC broadcast from July 17th, 1955. They had a group of religious leaders, said a prayer, and played the National Anthem before starting the parade.

If memory serves, they had one religious type, a "Reverend" (Not a knock, just pointing out that "Reverend" is a lot less religion-specific than "Priest" or "Rabbi")(Or "Imam" ;)), who delivered an "invocation."

I'm gonna have to break out the DVD and look for the National Anthem. I don't remember that at all.

--t

cstephens
11-28-2005, 12:08 PM
Went last night, and they use the Christmas Story (as told by Linus) as part of the Christmas Tree Lighting.

But then you have to sit (OK, well, stand) through the entire insipid ceremony. The decorations and tree themselves were nice. Having people yell out "peace on earth and goodwill to men" to light the tree was fairly ridiculous. At the end of it, all it made me want to do was watch DL's tree lighting.

The ice show was fun though. Will have to go back and catch Christmas Carol another day.

Niwel
11-28-2005, 12:10 PM
If memory serves, they had one religious type, a "Reverend" (Not a knock, just pointing out that "Reverend" is a lot less religion-specific than "Priest" or "Rabbi")(Or "Imam" ;)), who delivered an "invocation."

The Rev. gave the invocation (he was Walt's nephew) but -- according the the DVD -- there was a priest there as well as a rabbi. (I tried to find out who the rabbi was, but the Disney archives had no documentation).

Pirate Princess
11-28-2005, 12:32 PM
Regardless - Disneyland is not in the business of either patriotism or religion. They are in the business of selling a product that makes people happy. All people - of all different countries, political persuasion's, and faiths. If you want to celebrate America, then fly a flag pay your taxes and wear red, white and blue - DL will welcome you. If you want to worship, I suggest going to a church, which is likely to be more conducive to worship than a crowded theme park. Don't expect DL to be a significant source for spiritual succor. It's not policial or religious. Why should they be? Do you really want DL to start promoting religion?

AMEN!!!! He he.. I couldn't resist.

That's the beauty of DL.. it is free from politics and religious debates.. it is a place where all are welcome and can forget about the troubles of the world for awhile.