PDA

View Full Version : DCA...Honestly Now



Pages : [1] 2

LIMANDL4EVA
03-15-2002, 02:42 PM
OK. We all know that DCA has been a finacial failure. So far. We all know there are only a few good rides. So far. We all know that its not as great as Disneyland, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah the list goes on and on. OK! We get the picture. DCA is no Disneyland. But Disneyland was barely Disneyland when it first opend. The point is, honestly, if all of you were to look at DCA for what it was, put aside the brainwashing Al has given us about it. If you looked at it from the eyes of a regular 1 visit per year family, what would you thing about DCA. Honestly. Is it really that bad?

innerSpaceman
03-15-2002, 03:07 PM
In total and complete honesty ... If I just walked into DCA and had no idea of its sponsor (in other words, if I thought it might be a Six Flags or some such company's park), I wouldn't think the place was all that bad compared to most parks, except to say that the thrill level of rides is sub-par. Most other non-Disney theme parks (with the exception of Universal's two studio parks) are chock full of spine-tingling thrill rides and, on that score of general expectations, I'd still call DCA a flop. But otherwise I'd think it was an OK Joe's Theme Park Company park. And that's just the problem.

If I was told it was a Disney park, but I was not to compare it specifically to Disneyland, I'd think that Disney had farmed it's new park out to Joe's Theme Park Company for construction and design. Where's the fabulous centerpiece? That sun-reflector thing? You've got to be kidding! Where's the excellent imagineering? That Grizzly Mountain section was done by Disney, but why did they let Joe's Theme Park Company do the rest of the park? Where are the spectacular attractions that I cannot find at other theme parks? Some re-treads from other Disney parks, some off-the shelf carnival rides, a standard coaster, your basic raft ride, and a dark ride worthy of a county fair. Only Soarin' fits the bill (and barely) as an artistic and technological highlight, but since it's only a motion simulator movie (without the motion) and hardly a thematic ride-thru attraction on the level I've come to expect from each and every other Disney park on the planet Earth, it hardly ranks with what I'd expect to find. In short, comparisons to Disneyland aside, DCA cannot escape that the first word in the acronym is Disney. And on that basis, truly and honestly, it still sucks!

Ghoulish Delight
03-15-2002, 03:07 PM
My opinion of DCA has not changed since day 1. While it is probably not worth the $43 admission price, it is an enjoyable place to spend time. I have fun there.

Recently, talking to some people who like Disneyland, but aren't 'enthusiasts,' I realized something. Most people out there, the tourists and day visitors, don't care about the same things we do. When they show up to DCA, they are looking for 1 thing, to enjoy the day. They don't care whether the attractions are copies from Florida parks rather than brand new designs. They don't care if some of the theming is not 100% up to Disney par. They don't care that the line of sight allows "theme leakage" between lands. All they care about is whether they had fun. And, honestly, everyone that I've talked to that has been there has had a good time. Of course, everyone I know that's gone paid less than full price :D

The one thing I keep falling back on is that when WDW opened, it was pretty much a copy of Disneyland, except with fewer attractions. So, who cares if DCA is full of cookie cutter copies of other rides and has fewer attractions right now? Given the track record, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt (for a few years, at least).

Dawnie
03-15-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Recently, talking to some people who like Disneyland, but aren't 'enthusiasts,' I realized something. Most people out there, the tourists and day visitors, don't care about the same things we do. When they show up to DCA, they are looking for 1 thing, to enjoy the day. They don't care whether the attractions are copies from Florida parks rather than brand new designs. They don't care if some of the theming is not 100% up to Disney par. They don't care that the line of sight allows "theme leakage" between lands. All they care about is whether they had fun.

Right on. This is the best assessment of DCA I've heard here at the MousePad, yet. Thanks!

Can't we move on from this type of thread? Personally, I find it boring to log on and once again find another new DCA hate thread. I mean really, haven't we all aired our opinions, hashing them over and over again? Surely, there must be something more exciting or at least new to converse about.


[Moderator's note: Bad vB coding fixed around quoted material. -- Lani]

HTHBellcaptain
03-15-2002, 10:30 PM
I don't think that this thread was intended to be a DCA hate thread. The majority of the posts have been saying that it is not a bad place. I agree that DCA deserves a chance to grow into a park that is worthy of the Disney name. It already has some good stuff.


Originally posted by LIMANDL4EVA
DCA is no Disneyland. But Disneyland was barely Disneyland when it first opend. The point is, honestly, if all of you were to look at DCA for what it was, put aside the brainwashing Al has given us about it. If you looked at it from the eyes of a regular 1 visit per year family, what would you thing about DCA. Honestly. Is it really that bad?

I do not think that there is much room for comparrison between the opening of DL and DCA.

When DL opened there was nothing else like it. It was not a Coney Island or Carnival type of a place. It was a unique place. Since nothing had ever been built like it, there were a lot of lessons to be learned. DCA was not designed to be a ground breaking theme park. It was simply built to provide another destination. With the exception of Soarin, new ride systems and technologies were not experimented with. Instead more common theme park rides were used. With the exception of Dumbo and King Arthur's Carousel, the attractions at DL were unique and special.

When DL opened the company was small, even in comparrison to other entertainment companies of the day. It did not have tons of financial capital at its disposal. Everything the company had was tied up in the DL project. When DCA opened the company had grown to be the second largest entertainment company in the world.

I have brought up these points, not to bash DCA, but to try to help explain why some people do not like DCA. If it was called Knott's California Adventure, I think it would be viewed as a great park. But it seems that many people have come to expect a higher level of innovation, quality, and detail out of Disney.

I have no problem with the refit of attractions from other Disney theme parks. It makes a lot of sense. Whenever you build a pioneering ride or show system it cost a lot money. Once you have built it, it becomes much more cost effective to build a second one at another park.

zapppop
03-16-2002, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by LIMANDL4EVA
Is it really that bad?

YES !

next question ? :p

Okay, seriously, DCA ISthat bad. I'm very optomistic and was anticipating a new exciting theme park but was truly let down. I come to a theme park to go on rides;NOT to shop, NOT to eat in a restaurant, NOT to look at factories or watch movies or cheesy kid shows. DCA LOOKS nice but with the severe lack of rides, it feels like there's nothing to do there. It is true that DCA is suffering partialy from it's theme. Who Wants To Be A Million, A BUG'S LAND and THE MAIN STREET ELECTRICAL PARADE have nothing to do with California, and if you live in California or even just visiting, why would you pay $43 to see a parody of what you're already surrounded by ? The only way to do that is with rides ! Plus, look how long the ticket price discount has been going on ($10 off adults, kids free). It's been months; almost a year actually ! Not to mention they discontinued the 2Park Premium AP and now ALL AP's are 2 park AP's. They're obviously desperate to get people in there, and even when they do, they still complain. I've heard many 1 day visitors complaining about the lack of rides and demanding a refund and / or some compensation. I can imagine how horrible it must be for those families that come from out of state with little kids. They come to a new Disney theme park and discover there's almost no rides for them to go on together. It's hard not to compair DCA to Disneyland since it's right next door and offers so much for the same price.

Few / or no good rides, high prices, and poor theming;

yes, DCA IS that bad. :(

coronamouseman
03-16-2002, 07:56 AM
No one wants to beat a dead horse further, but with the (1) opening of DAK as a "half-finished or barely finished" park and (2) opening of DCA with it's obvious shortcomings in theming and attractions and (3) the recent opening of another half-baked park at WDS-Paris, I think the message which most of us Disney
"affciandos" have received is that Disney has indeed dropped their previously high standards in favor of implementing corporate strategies of empire building and "gate additions" to resorts rather than actually looking to build unique, complete and compelling theme parks.

I don't think there is anything wrong with "calling a spade a spade" when that information is being so obviously thrown at us .......

The fact that OLC demanded a higher standard for their park and was willing to pay the freight and now has a terrific new jewel in their crown is even more galling - it took someone else other than Disney themselves to demand that incredible level of detail and then show the willingness to fund it ..........

It's just sad to see Disney themselves show such a relaxation of the innovation and creativity which they had become known for prior to Eisner's reign ...............

Ghoulish Delight
03-16-2002, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by zapppop



I come to a theme park to go on rides;NOT to shop, NOT to eat in a restaurant, NOT to look at factories or watch movies or cheesy kid shows.

Exactly my point. DCA (combined with DTD) is not aimed at you. It's aimed at the growing demographic of middle class 25-35 year olds, many of them with young children. What do they like to do? Shop, eat at restaurants, take factory tours, and watch kids shows with their kids. And, occasionally, they might like a tame ride now and again. DCA is perfect for that crowd. So if you go to DCA, and that's the kind of entertainment you're expecting, you will be mighty pleased.

Look, I don't think the place is perfect. There is massive room for improvement. I just don't find it worth my time and effort to continually be angry about it. I'll make my suggestions, and hope that they are heard. But as long as I can have a fun time, even if it's just to cross the esplenade for a couple hours to ride Grizzly and see Milionaire, I'm not going to get upset and angry about it.

And I still say give it 3-5 years to mature. Once it's expanded to take over the entirety of the Timon lot, and once (god willing) they do finally add a new, unique attraction, I think the place will take on a whole new life.

justagrrl
03-16-2002, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by zapppop


YES !

...........
yes, DCA IS that bad. :(

Boooo.....hissssss...... ;)



We'll have a lot more fun without you there being so negative anyway. ;) Just more DCA for us folks that do like it.

No offense is meant by this but - after awhile all the "DCA is crap" threads just sound like a bunch of whiney kids. Get over it. If you don't like it, then don't go. End of story.

(and now that I've said to stop complaining - I have to complain. What a hippocrit - yes. Can't they open some of those restaraunts that are never open? Maliburritos...the chinese place...the nacho place in hollywood...the unmanned popcorn stands that taunt my ds.)

Dawnie
03-16-2002, 10:01 AM
this all sounds like the same old story......

Why not borrow a billion and open the adventure park of your dreams? :D
Sounds like most of you have the ideas to build the better MouseTrap, go for it....out do them.....

Why not instead challenge Disney on the social level? For example: Do they sell only California grown produce at the stands at Bountiful Garden? If so, why is that not represented? How about DCA/Disney giving back to the local community? Are they donating to the regional food back using special promotions to entice people to attend the park. I.E. Bring a can of food, receive 5.00 off admission to DCA. It's all a tax write off anyway...win-win in my book.

Take the energy analyzing and reanalyzing and make it positive.

LIMANDL4EVA
03-16-2002, 10:32 AM
Im just making clear that when i started this thread it wasn't in a neagative way towards DCA, i know it has its problems. but it is an ok park, too bad a lot of the public obviously dont see it that way (I draw this conclusion because nobody ever comes the place).

Ghoulish Delight
03-16-2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by LIMANDL4EVA
Im just making clear that when i started this thread it wasn't in a neagative way towards DCA, i know it has its problems. but it is an ok park, too bad a lot of the public obviously dont see it that way (I draw this conclusion because nobody ever comes the place). I'm not so sure it's gotten such poor reviews. Low attendance is due to a billion factors, including, but not limited to, bad weather, a bad year for theme parks in general, and a substandard advertising campaign by Disney. The DCA bashers get a lot of press, but I have never seen anything that tells one way or the other whether the nay-sayers out number the people who liked it. I wouldn't be surprised that if you interviewed most non-APers who go to the park, especially ones with park hopper tickets, everyone would be surprised to find how much fun people have there.

zapppop
03-16-2002, 01:06 PM
DCA has a few good things going for it,
but not enough for the park to stand on it's own.

ionfreeway
03-16-2002, 02:24 PM
which is why building it next to DL (an already established park) was probably a better idea than building it in the middle of say, idaho.

that way it can grow until it can stand on it's own.

tjrj
03-16-2002, 02:29 PM
We, as former so. Cal. residents and therefore, long-time DL supporters, had a wonderful, terrific time at our first visit to the "new" DL resort in December. Our kids are high school and elementary age. We did everything together as a family-gave every attraction a first shot. It was a great change from "just" DL(and I mean that in the kindest way, ok?). Could DCA stand alone-especially at $43 a day? No. However, with Disneyland already in place-it doesn't need to. Would Epcot or Animal Kingdom stand alone at regular admission price?(especially when they first opened)? No. They didn't need to.

I must say though that if I had preschool or younger children, DCA would be a huge disappointment.

mousey_girl
03-16-2002, 04:40 PM
When we went in Dec, it was our first trip to DCA. I really wanted The Boy to see the electric parade. Out of our 4 days at DLR we visited DCA 3 times. We didn't really explore it, and never made it to the Paradise Pier area. We went on MM, GRR and Soarin'. We saw the parade and ate a great corn dog. That was about it. With a 5 yr old, we couldn't really explore as much as we would have liked, and I was trying to avoid the Pier area due to The Boy being about 47". I knew he wanted to go on the "Mickey Mouse Roller Coaster". As a mommy, it was easier to stear clear of the entire area, then it would have been to deal with melt down man. He did try to go on Zinger, and that is when we learned he wasn't tall enough (by about an inch) for Screamin'.
I wouldn't say DCA was a disappointment. We had a park hopper pass. It would have been a disappointment had we paid full price. Next year we will spend more time there. What we did see and experience we enjoyed. Is it worth $43, no. Is it worth a $10-15 add on to a DL ticket, yes.

disneyhead
03-16-2002, 04:48 PM
Is DCA a bad park? Well, here is what
I think.
It has a lot in common with our local Six Flags Elitch Gardens, (Which has been nominated as the wost park in the country), which traditional Disney parks don't have.

1. Gondola type Farris Wheel
DCA, yes
Elitch Gardens, yes
Any other Disney park, no
2. Big White Roller Coaster
DCA, yes
Elitch Gardens, yes
Any other Disney park, no
3. Exposed Tower Drop thing
DCA, yes
Elitch Gardens, yes
Any other Disney park, no
4. Wave Swinger
DCA, yes
Elitch Gardens, yes
Any other Disney park, no
5. Mad Mouse Coaster
DCA, yes
Elitch Gardens, no (they haven't sunk that low yet, but you
can find one at the West Virginia State Fair)
Any other Disney park, no, (they are putting in a higher
quality mad mouse at Animal Kingdom)
6. River Raft Ride
DCA, yes
Elitch Gardens, yes
Any other Disney Park, yes DAK

So if Six Flags/State fair quality is all you expect from The Disneyland Resort then it's fine. If you expect what Disney got famous for producing, no.
Can you have fun there? Yes, but I can also have fun taking my kids to the playground at the local city park, but I wouldn't call it Disney quality because it is possible to have fun there.
Is it the top dollar, world class offerings Disney park patrons are used to? Hardly.
It's true, us Disney snobs are mortified at the thought of Disney filling their parks with Six Flags crap. I guess we'll just have to turn to Universal's IOA for Disney quality. At least someone has the guts to build them right.

P.S. There seems to be a debate over which Flying Carpet ride fits their lands better. MK's in Adventureland, or WDS paris' Animation Courtyard. My vote is neither since it is a cheap carnival ride the only Disney Land/District I think it would fit is Paradise Pier in DCA.

BiggJakeMoney
03-17-2002, 12:05 AM
Here's my take:

Aside from all the sneering and complaining about DCA detailing lack of rides, too many movie-based attractions, limited themeing, blah blah blah, there's something more fundamentally wrong with this place.

A summarization of California in California? Really?

I mean, come on now. DCA makes more sense in Paris, right next to their Magic Kingdom. The Europeans are fascinated with the west coast, can't get enough of it, it would have been a perfect place to put it. But to put a farcical, summarized version of California in the MIDDLE of California is just plain weird. Especially in light of the fact that the DLR is geared to locals. I'm a local myself. I could either drive ten minutes to the real Hollywood, or 55 minutes to the fake version with a lame dark ride and a 3-D movie. With the new "Hollywood and Highland" complex open, I'd much rather go to the real Hollywood.

So, in the end, I just think it's a flawed idea. I could see it working if the DLR was geared to tourists, but there just aren't enough tourists to justify making that decision. It's like putting "Disney's Disneyland Adventure," a scaled-down, summarized version of Disneyland, in the MIDDLE of Disneyland. Who's gonna wanna go when they've got the real thing right there?

Maybe it could have been "Disney's Europe Adventure." Or "Disney's Australian Adventure." Something, ANYTHING, other than a park celebrating the "best of" of a state located in the same exact state. It just doesn't make sense. A theme park should provide an escape, a different, adventurous diversion from reality. It shouldn't give you a dose of "fantastical reality" that you could go see a few blocks away from your house.

So, that's my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. Or a bucket-full.

PAOil
03-17-2002, 04:43 AM
I like this thread. We are the target family--mom & dad w/ 4 kids. Normally we visit WDW every couple years but this year we flew from PA to DLR (first visit) precisely because it's now a "resort". We were curious.

This thread hits the nail on the head. For the folks who say "there is something seriously wrong at DCA" we agree. Her first time (and last) at Paradise Pier my wife said: "this doesn't feel like Disney--can we leave?"

For the folks who say "there's room for massive improvement" we agree. The farm area and Pacific Wharf had no appeal to our children (or really to us adults either).

And for the folks who say it's fun, we agree! Out of our 8 days at DLR we spent about 2 1/2 at DCA (of course you should discount that a bit because we did Millionaire 9 times!)

DCA just wants to make you scratch your head. How in one place could they do something so well (Grizzly, Condor, Grand Californian) right next to a bunch of junk (San Fran area, farm area etc)?????????????

For kids the Disney parks are so wonderful because the parks allow the kids to take a full body leap into imagination brought to life. As adults we enjoy the same thing--also as an adult I enjoy marvelling at the quality, how things are built, etc.

At DCA the full body leap is a hard landing. You keep clunking up against the clunkers. It's still fun--but it's odd--and you sure know it's not anywhere near Disney's best.

Will we be back?. We bought annual passes, so maybe one more time this year as a special treat. Is it a resort yet that will lure us year after year? Not yet.

What would make us come back? Things at DL were great. It has a beauty not found at WDW and we were charmed. The Matterhorn is wonderful and while we hope for some submarine replacement and some Tommorrowland improvements the same problems exist at WDW.

It would take serious changes/additions at DCA--and then we'd have 2 great resorts and an excuse to go to one every year! I suppose the changes/additions are best left to another thread.

But I'll say it again--this post is great--in it are all the strange mixed feelings we experienced with respect to DCA.

coronamouseman
03-17-2002, 05:33 AM
PAOil - thanks for a great explanation of DCA - just the right mix of it's pluses and minuses and the kind of uneasy feeling it leaves you with ..........

MonorailMan
03-17-2002, 07:35 AM
I've said it 2 times, and I'll say it again!

The only way I'll step into DCA is if it's free! :P
It's a freebie with an AP, so I'll check out the Screamin' Sorin' MM, and that SSL.
Yes, I think that A park about California in california is a nice idea, but where's the history of Cal. in DCA? No gold rush, no missions. Oh Well. :)

MammaSilva
03-17-2002, 07:52 AM
DCA's saving grace....fewer crowds, a few decent places to eat and Soaring, GRR and the underappreciated Animation Bld. For now Blast is enough to make me go across the way for a few hours, I had a hard time with the park the first couple of times we went because I was wanting "Disney" and it just is not there for the most part, as a add on to our AP's for "free" I'm paying what I feel is fair, nothing 'extra' since I buy the AP anyway, will DCA ever develop into a park that can stand alone remains to be see and only time will tell, but I can't believe the 'truth in advertising' folks haven't been on Disneys case over that screaming commerical, those 'kids' that are shown aren't legally tall enough to even ride, but it gives the illusion that the height requirements allow small children on the ride....unfair to those little ones IMHO

mousey_girl
03-17-2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by mammasilva
, but I can't believe the 'truth in advertising' folks haven't been on Disneys case over that screaming commerical, those 'kids' that are shown aren't legally tall enough to even ride, but it gives the illusion that the height requirements allow small children on the ride....unfair to those little ones IMHO

EXACTLY!!!!!! That is my pet peeve about their advertising!!!!

The Boy saw those commercials and thought he could ride it, they all looked about his age or a year older maybe... He did not understand why those kids could ride it and he could not!

This is Disney and I understand the need for safety, but if I wanted to hear him cry and fuss because he is too short for everything (he was 47 inches tall in Dec), then I would take him to Magic Mountain, which is sooooo much closer to us (less than 90 mins vs 2 1/2 hrs with traffic).

innerSpaceman
03-17-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by disneyhead
Can you have fun there? Yes, but I can also have fun taking my kids to the playground at the local city park, but I wouldn't call it Disney quality because it is possible to have fun there.
Is it the top dollar, world class offerings Disney park patrons are used to? Hardly.
That sums it up nicely. Sure, I can have fun at DCA. I have had a good time there on (almost) every visit. But I'm a fun guy with fun friends. I can have fun grocery shopping. If that's not a fair comparison, I can have fun at the beach, at the park, at the mall, and at the movies. Yes, I have fun at DCA, but that doesn't make it a good theme park.

yeo_foxe
03-18-2002, 09:06 AM
(Yes, I like DCA. the Animation building lobby gives me an experience that I can't get anywhere in the resort. A calming place where I can also be entertained. The GRR area is beautiful. Dinner on Pacific wharf is always wonderful. I hate being pushed, shoved and stepped on so the wide walkways are right up my alley!)

(Also some of the stuff that is said of the place is down right venemous (You ever read the "other board". There is no way that *anything* could live down to the reputation it has gotten!!!)

Here's a theory (all speculation, my thoughts and observations):

My understanding: When the ultra-expensive Euro-disney opened it was pretty much not well attended. Fixes and remarketing were neccessary. Despite the extensive theming etc....

Thus
BIG -> BIGGER didn't seem to work....

Disney opens a more modest theme park: DCA - with the intent of letting it grow based on the public feedback.

Thus
SMALL -> LARGER might work.

We've seen the crowds increasing in the park as changes have been made.

I disagree with the "scrambling to fix it" point of view. I feel change has been built into the park.