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View Full Version : Slowly extinguishing Fastpass?



DisneyDustin22
09-02-2005, 11:31 AM
Was at the resort last weekend, standing outside the entrance to Jungle Cruise when a guest who obviously is NOT a Disney regular was complaining to the greeter at JC about why that attraction didn't have FP. To make a long story short, the CM gave the guest a quick and generic run down about the FP program and why this particular attraction did not need it. I wasn't spying in until I overheard the CM go into very specific detail about Disney removing the Fastpass program over the next 2-4 years. Now, I have worked in and around theme parks enough to know when a CM is blowing smoke up a guests you know what. This did not seem like the case.

How true were his statements? I have no clue but he did go on to mention that the CM's were told that the removal of recent FP machines from some attractions was in part the beginning of a long process of phasing out the program completely. He went on to share with this guest about how the decision was made to not incorporate a FP line into Space Mountain when it was relaunched based on the reason that eventually they would never need a seperate FP line inside once the program was removed. He also made claims that Indy would go down for a lengthy rehab sometime in the next 2 years to remove the FP machines and overhaul the interior queue and establish it as it was when the attraction opened. The CM named a number of occasions where guests have been complaining about the FP program. Partially in due to the recent rush of SM. He also said since CM's have been openly showing guests that they can return anytime after their callback time, instead of only having to come back during the time window, it has diminished the accuracy of FP return guests throughout the day.

To an extent, it seemed logical, but what do I know. Now before any of you turn this into a FP bash or a personal dispute as like what happened with the DCA thread recently :D , let me first just say, NONE of this information is confirmed. This is only a conversation I overheard. I am simply sharing it with the rest of you because, well frankly, this is what we do here. :) So I don't want to hear any feedback on a personal level about sharing uncomfirmed information okay? ;) Feel free to share your thoughts and views on this and/or if you have heard something similar.

Osky
09-02-2005, 11:34 AM
That seems interesting as they are paying big $$$ filing for patents on improvements to the FP system. Unless they are just doing that as a defensive startegy.

stan4d_steph
09-02-2005, 11:38 AM
I would think if they were phasing it out, they wouldn't have left it in at Space Mt., but who knows? I hope they don't because I think it's a great benefit for the average guest.

rfaljean
09-02-2005, 12:30 PM
My family and I enjoy the use of the fast pass, but choose to use them as they were first intended. We make sure that we return during our "window". I think that if the CM's would enforce the return time, maybe there wouldn't be such a backlash for the standby queue. The system seems to have been set up so that X amt of fastpasses could be used in conjunction w/the standby queue per hr. If everyone chooses to wait until their window has expired, then they are dumped over into the next time window thus creating a longer fastpass and standby queue.

I hope they keep the fastpasses and maybe enforce the "rules" a little bit more.

JeffG
09-02-2005, 03:58 PM
A front-line castmember at the park almost certainly wouldn't have any direct knowledge of long-term strategic plans for a system such as Fastpass. He or she was very likely just repeating rumors or speculation.

-Jeff

Doug
09-02-2005, 07:48 PM
using a FP past it's time is very usefull, say, you get to the park early in the day, you want to ride splash, but it's not hot enough yet, so, you get a FP, later in the day when it is nice and hot out, you ride it, and get nice and wet... ahh the way God intended ;)

Also, I like to ride Space 2x in a day, get a FP, ride it right then, then wait 'till night fall to ride again.....


My family and I enjoy the use of the fast pass, but choose to use them as they were first intended. We make sure that we return during our "window". I think that if the CM's would enforce the return time, maybe there wouldn't be such a backlash for the standby queue. The system seems to have been set up so that X amt of fastpasses could be used in conjunction w/the standby queue per hr. If everyone chooses to wait until their window has expired, then they are dumped over into the next time window thus creating a longer fastpass and standby queue.

I hope they keep the fastpasses and maybe enforce the "rules" a little bit more.

ToursbabeC3po
09-02-2005, 08:15 PM
I guess Esniers little million dollar plan did not work. Poor baby!

ILovePoker
09-03-2005, 10:44 AM
I guess Esniers little million dollar plan did not work. Poor baby!

Thanks for staying on topic. :D

Anyways, I doubt Fast Pass is going anywhere. It's simple math, if 400 people want to ride Space Mountain before the invention of Fast Pass, all 400 of them would have to wait for let's say 20 minutes. However, when Fast Pass was created, if 400 people wanted to ride Space Mountain and 100 of them got Fast Passes, and the 100 people who got Fast Passes return during different times of their time window, then that would automatically make the line a shorter wait for the people in standby because 100 or so people are not in line. Then maybe if 12 people return at 1 time, that's still only 1 rocket being used and the stand by moves again after that. Then this gradually continues. I don't understand why people think it makes a stand by entrance longer because if you do a little simple math, it's obvious that in most cases that it doesn't. So in conclusion, I doubt Fast Pass is going anywhere because many tourists (like me) enjoy getting on rides faster when you don't have enough time to wait 60 minutes for something when you might only be in Disneyland for 2 or 3 days. :D

SCUBAbe
09-03-2005, 11:24 AM
I think fast pass will stay. If nothing else to compete with other parks offerign it. The only change may be thay may start charging for it like all the other parks do.....(USH, SFMM, seaworld with their reserved seating. I'm not sure if knotss has anyhting since I avoid that park like the plague. :))

DisneyDustin22
09-03-2005, 11:34 AM
Thanks for staying on topic. :D

Anyways, I doubt Fast Pass is going anywhere. It's simple math, if 400 people want to ride Space Mountain before the invention of Fast Pass, all 400 of them would have to wait for let's say 20 minutes. However, when Fast Pass was created, if 400 people wanted to ride Space Mountain and 100 of them got Fast Passes, and the 100 people who got Fast Passes return during different times of their time window, then that would automatically make the line a shorter wait for the people in standby because 100 or so people are not in line. Then maybe if 12 people return at 1 time, that's still only 1 rocket being used and the stand by moves again after that. Then this gradually continues. I don't understand why people think it makes a stand by entrance longer because if you do a little simple math, it's obvious that in most cases that it doesn't. So in conclusion, I doubt Fast Pass is going anywhere because many tourists (like me) enjoy getting on rides faster when you don't have enough time to wait 60 minutes for something when you might only be in Disneyland for 2 or 3 days. :D

I agree with you completely, I think the problem that has risen is that recently more and more people are using their fastpasses after the return window. So while in theory, the stand by line would be shorter from FP people not returning during their window, it only extends it that much further later in the day. So like you said, if you had 400 people get in line, but take 100 of those people out, say you do this every hour for 4 hours, and say 50 FP people dont return each hour until later in the day, you could have 200 people added to the stand by line at any given hour later. (A lot to follow I know lol) I think that is the only problem they may be facing unless they begin to enforce the time window. I'll be one to admit it too I don't use my FP window sometimes. I may get a SM pass at 10am but not ride til 10pm. So I know I'm not helping the cause any. But you are right, it's not merely the system itself, but the loop holes people are exploiting in it that could be affecting it I think.

ILovePoker
09-03-2005, 12:33 PM
I agree with you completely, I think the problem that has risen is that recently more and more people are using their fastpasses after the return window. So while in theory, the stand by line would be shorter from FP people not returning during their window, it only extends it that much further later in the day. So like you said, if you had 400 people get in line, but take 100 of those people out, say you do this every hour for 4 hours, and say 50 FP people dont return each hour until later in the day, you could have 200 people added to the stand by line at any given hour later. (A lot to follow I know lol) I think that is the only problem they may be facing unless they begin to enforce the time window. I'll be one to admit it too I don't use my FP window sometimes. I may get a SM pass at 10am but not ride til 10pm. So I know I'm not helping the cause any. But you are right, it's not merely the system itself, but the loop holes people are exploiting in it that could be affecting it I think.

I 100% totally agree with you that they should enforce the return times. It's not your fault that you showed up after your return time. It is the job of the person working at the ride to enforce the times. :D I agree the times on the fast pass need to be enforced because once many people realize that you can ride whenever you want, then it's possible that if people keep telling others about it, then there could just be a swarm of people waiting in the fastpass line.

TrekkieDad
09-03-2005, 02:02 PM
I 100% totally agree with you that they should enforce the return times. It's not your fault that you showed up after your return time. It is the job of the person working at the ride to enforce the times. :D I agree the times on the fast pass need to be enforced because once many people realize that you can ride whenever you want, then it's possible that if people keep telling others about it, then there could just be a swarm of people waiting in the fastpass line.
I disagree. There can be many reasons for showing up late for a ride return time, including the ride being shut down during the appointed hour. The vast majority of people take the pass times at face value, but it's nice to know you won't be refused entry just because you arrive a little late.

I think it highly unlikely that a FP line be crowded because of lack of time enforcement. It would have happened long before now.

DisneyDustin22
09-03-2005, 02:54 PM
I disagree. There can be many reasons for showing up late for a ride return time, including the ride being shut down during the appointed hour. The vast majority of people take the pass times at face value, but it's nice to know you won't be refused entry just because you arrive a little late.

I think it highly unlikely that a FP line be crowded because of lack of time enforcement. It would have happened long before now.

You're right in saying that sometimes circumstances beyond your control keep a guest with a FP from returning in their window. But what we are saying is since FP started, its always been understood that you have that window to return to to ride it. But lately, for the same reason you stated, guests have come back, to inquire about returning after their window and the CM's have been explaining to them that the FP's are good ANYTIME after the start of the window, basically from the beginning of the return time til park close. Now, I'm not saying all guests are doing this, but we are starting to see a majority of guests do this only because word is spreading that this is permitted. So say for example you visit the park in mid July and its going to be 97 degrees out. You get a FP for Splash when you enter the park at 8am, and your return time is at 945 am. Chances are the weather will still be cool and you wont want to get wet until the middle of the day when the heat is peaking. So you wait til mid day to ride. (*You meaning a generalization) This is what we are seeing more and more of. So to counter what you said about the FP line busy due to lack of enforcement, hypothetically, if 100 guests dont use their return time between 945-1045am, and all 100 decide to return between 245-345pm, you have to add those 100 to the guests who already have theyre return time in that window, as well as any other guests who have waited to return to this time. So what this does is basically negates all estimates of wait times during those return times.

Think of it like this, guests have the chance to see showings of Snow White all day long. They have the showtimes based on a percentage of the attendance in the park arriving at each time. What would happen if a majority of all guests decided to wait and show up at the last show? They would fill to capacity and the rest wouldnt get it.

The bottom line is basically those who wait to return after their window are extending the FP line and stand by line by that much. The upside, those who don't return during their window, are cutting the stand by line down by that much.

lauramaynot
09-03-2005, 02:59 PM
I disagree. There can be many reasons for showing up late for a ride return time, including the ride being shut down during the appointed hour. The vast majority of people take the pass times at face value, but it's nice to know you won't be refused entry just because you arrive a little late.

I think it highly unlikely that a FP line be crowded because of lack of time enforcement. It would have happened long before now.

I agree Trekkiedad! We have experianced multiple ride shut downs for splash and SM over the summer. Having fastpasses when a ride shuts down is soooo much better than being in the standby line...you can come back later and not wait too long. having been stuck in a standby line at the time of the closure you either forfeit your spot and wasted time or wait for who knows how much longer. We were never offered a fastpass when a ride was shut down though I know some people who have said they were. We have also had troubles returning to FP's during the window time because of crowds and parades that sometimes close down walkways. So we usually get the FP's in the morning for what we really want to ride and we still wait standby for others. It just seems like good insurance...

TrekkieDad
09-03-2005, 07:15 PM
DD, your example using the Snow White Show is irrelevant. Shows are given at set times; rides are continuous. Certain show times are always more popular, and the closer you arrive to show time, the greater your chance of getting a poor seat, or none at all.

There is no evidence I know of that shows Fastpass lines clogging up because a majority of Fastpass users are using them "late". In fact is there any hard evidence that significantly large numbers of FPs are being used after their window "closes"? If that were the case, it could easily be remedied by issuing fewer FPs for the most popular hours of use.

Ride reservations do not guarantee that the ride will be boarded within a certain amout of time or that the ride will even be operating when the FP holder intends to use it. As a courtesy, DL permits FP holders to be "late" for their reservations without questioning their reasons.

In 1999 or 2000, my family got FPs for Test Track, a very popular ride at Epcot. When we went back to use them, the ride was closed, and the CM at the entrance stamped our FPs as valid for the rest of the day. When the ride eventually reopened, the FP line took about 20 minutes (shockingly long for FP!). No one complained. It was still much faster than standby.

DisneyDustin22
09-04-2005, 12:35 AM
TD I am not arguing against you, I am simply just stating a point. I know that circumerstances can arise causing guests to have to return after their FP window, as I have stated. What I am saying is, guests who choose not to return until after their window, what that does is simply raise the opportunity that both the FP line and stand by line will be longer at some given point later on. If a ride breaks down and you cannot return until later, then fine. But I am saying if you have a return time for noon, but do not actually return until 6, multiply that by so many people, and you have your reason.

I was not using the Snow White show in comparison to FP, I was merely stating an example of how if a certain number of people all choose at the same time to do something, it can significantly delay it. If you read what I said correctly, it shouldn't be too hard to understand. My example clearly stated that if so many given guests waited to see the show, by the last run, you would have an oversized crowd. I think you are thinking too much into this, it's quite simlpe to understand, if you have 100 people and you tell 50 to come back at 12 and the other 50 to come back at 1, you're fine. But if the first 50 decide to come back with the second 50 at 1 instead, you havent saved any time because then the line will be just as long as it was earlier when all 100 were there. I'm not saying this is happening significantly every day, I am saying that more and more guests have started to do this, which if over time that number does increase, the FP will not be saving time later in the day, only making the lines longer.

Please understand the point I am trying to make here does not involve the rides shutting down as the reason FP people are returning later. I never stated anything about being promised a certain boarding time or anything to do with a reservation.

ErikBsandiego
09-04-2005, 09:58 AM
To throw some more gasoline on the fire.....

I actually think the current fastpass system at DL is just about right. I MIGHT remove it from BTMRR (see below) and anticipate removing it from SM in 2007/2008. I would absolutely leave it in place at Indy, SM, and Roger.....

Why....

Well it is back to Mr. Lee's famous complaint about FP - it CONTRIBUTES to clogging the the walkways to the point that the park is uncomfortably crowded. With the lack of rides (especially B and C tickets that sucked up people from the walkways) the overall DL experience suffers.

Now I would leave them in place at Indy and at SM because both of those rides suffer from quest that "spill" into Walkways. I remember the first few years of Indy and how crowded the bottle neck at AL was when the que strechted back into the hub area. Likewise the standby at Splash can stretch back to HM and crowds that walk way. But SM has a TON of que space now on the "second deck" and BTMRR can stretch back into one of the widest walkways in the park (the BTM "trail" to fantasy land).

disneyhound
09-04-2005, 10:09 AM
...Now before any of you turn this into a FP bash ...So I don't want to hear any feedback on a personal level...

Interesting thread.

Thanks for the info/insight. Of course if any of this information turns out to be anything but 100% accurate, my attorney will be contacting you for a list of your assets.

Thanks for sharing, have a nice day! ;)

TowerofTerror
09-04-2005, 10:12 AM
hey well it be nice when they get rid of fast pass system all together