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Iceman
08-23-2005, 03:20 PM
I was in L.A. last weekend visiting some friends and stayed an extra day so that I could visit DCA again. It's been a couple of years for me (ToT was under construction last time), so it was very nice to be back again even though my family will be spending 10 days at WDW starting in about two weeks.

I found it interesting that when I went to the ticket window and asked for a 1-day, 1-park ticket the CM automatically gave me one for DL. I didn't realize this until I was at the DCA turnstile, but the CM there simply took out a pen and scratched out "DISNEYLAND" and wrote "DCA ONLY" on it.

As someone who has spent half of my adult life living in CA (but who currently does not), I was struck by something during this most recent visit. Basically, I think Californians absolutely take for granted what they have and how they live. Compared to my current home (northern Virginia), California is a paradise. I could list many, many concrete examples but will simply state that CA feels more alive and vibrant than other places I've lived in or visited. And so a park that celebrates this magic is lost on those who live it every day and who have forgotten what a wonderful place they have to call home.

Yes, the park is still somewhat lacking in attractions (especially with California Screamin' shut down, Millionaire closed, and SSL in transition to the Monsters, Inc. ride). And yes, I do see signs of cost-cutting and corner-cutting in many areas. But the park still has lots of Disney magic, a host of wonderful attractions, and a solid theme and message regarding the splendor that is California.

I've been thinking about it ever since Sunday when I was in the park, and have decided that lots of Californians just don't appreciate what they have. Therefore, they have trouble appreciating what DCA is. And that's just a shame. :(

Andrew
08-23-2005, 03:27 PM
Alternatively, Californians greatly appreciate what they have. So much, in fact, that the idea of a cut-rate theme park trying to present "California-lite" is just pointless to them, when they can easily go and experience the real thing.

Good tortillas, though.

3894
08-23-2005, 03:28 PM
I've been thinking about it ever since Sunday when I was in the park, and have decided that lots of Californians just don't appreciate what they have. Therefore, they have trouble appreciating what DCA is. And that's just a shame.

For this to be true, it would also have to be true that all out-of-state visitors appreciate DCA. This doesn't seem to be the case.

It would also have to be true that California is the nicest place in the world. It's nice but there are lots of nice places.

HydroGuy
08-23-2005, 03:56 PM
I grew up in SoCal and left in 1992. I have been to DCA on two separate DLR trips. My sister, who lives about 45 minutes away, has never been. I think the reason is that she, like many in SoCal, only go to DLR on day trips, and only do so every year or two. With a day trip, I can see why she would choose DL over DCA. Heck, I would probably do the same in her shoes. Since we go on multi-day trips every couple years, we get DCA "for free" as part of a parkhopper pass. This led us to try it out, and start to like it.

My theory is that day trippers will choose DL over DCA 99+% of the time. And at least those in SoCal are predominantly day trippers. Hence no DCA for them.

Disney could begin to change this by lowering the price for DCA vs. DL and/or making all one day tickets parkhoppers.

pisces
08-23-2005, 04:25 PM
I just think they could have done a better job, and gone deeper, in some places into the theme-ing.

I don't like the dead spots.

I don't dislike it.

But, I wouldn't place it above something like Knotts Berry Farm.

I like the idea of being able to experience all those California things that are too inconvenient to get to, even living here, especially all in one day.

Californians are demanding when it comes to entertainment, though, and demand life-size replicas ala Vegas-style entertainment venues.

It's the entertainment industry, here, and we've been spoiled as to what to expect.

The idea was a good one, if only they could have done it better, and more detailed, for demanding (entertainment-wise) Californians.

SCUBAbe
08-23-2005, 05:25 PM
I LOVE DCA....there are parts of california i definatly do NOT love, but I d like OC and the san diego area....la county sucks for the most part and I haven't been up north. I do Like central california though, but it's kind of sleepy there....

TrekkieDad
08-23-2005, 05:41 PM
I LOVE DCA....there are parts of california i definatly do NOT love, but I d like OC and the san diego area....la county sucks for the most part and I haven't been up north. I do Like central california though, but it's kind of sleepy there....
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
<yawn>
Wake me up when you decide to visit Superior California.
<fluffs pillow> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

smjoseph
08-23-2005, 06:21 PM
I really like DCA too. Nowadays I can't think of visiting DL w/o visiting DCA. That said, I have to admit that DCA is not a destination in itself. It's something that you do when you go to DL. Most of the fault of that is the dead spots. Hollywood backlot has become a ghost town. (you run through it on your way to the TOT) Flik's Fun Fair is great for the kiddies but that had to be added, before it was a place to watch plants grow! The Montery section is a yawn. Disney's plan to spice this park up is really needed.

Nancy
08-23-2005, 06:45 PM
Does anyone think if DCA had had another name from the very begining with the same ride ( with nonCalifornia names attached) the attitude would be the same? :confused:

SCUBAbe
08-23-2005, 06:49 PM
Does anyone think if DCA had had another name from the very begining with the same ride ( with nonCalifornia names attached) the attitude would be the same? :confused:

yes, because people do not like change...and they wanted epcot/westcot here or a carbon copy of DL I guess...the fact that the parks are different is why I love DCA so much....DL has it's charm, but DCA has an energy about it. :)

Gone2Disneyland
08-23-2005, 07:23 PM
My problem with enjoying DCA is that I constantly compare it to Disneyland, which is a huge icon to live up to and therefore sorta unfair. But I can't help it.

The biggest hang up I can't get over when I visit DCA is the notion about the berm around Disneyland. Perhaps I'm bringing that baggage with me into DCA unnecessarily, but when I think of a Disney theme park, I expect to walk thru the gates and not see reminders of the world outside the park. But from the time I walk inside, I don't get that vibe that I've been transported into another world from reality. And when I'm on the steps leading to the upper floors of the Hyperion Theatre or walking around Paradise Pier, I see the Anaheim Convention Center and the streets and the tram routes and parking lots and the Disneyland Hotel, all these reminders that I guess I expect I shouldn't be seeing from inside a Disney park. There have been other details mentioned on this thread that I agree with, but I like to think (tho' unrealistically I admit) that I'd overlook the other details if I felt the park blocked out the images of the outside world and completely immersed me into its own unique world. As Disneyland does.

All that said, over the past year or so, I've started to lighten up and enjoy what's there at DCA. It's still not a full day's worth of adventure for me, and DCA is obviously not a perfect park. But I guess that may be why it gets beaten up so easily by folks who visit these boards. It's not a home run, and I agree maybe those of us who live close to it just expected it to be a home run.

Susan L
08-23-2005, 07:32 PM
I was born and raised in So. CA, I know live in No. CA. I have been just about everywhere in our beautiful state. It is a wonderful place to live. I also love DCA and don't understand the negative comments. DL had alot of the same negative comments in its beginning years too. I say give DCA a chance to grow up. Don't try to compare it to DL its not suppose to be like DL.

Doug
08-23-2005, 07:38 PM
I went to DCA my first time in 2004, and while I find it interesting over all, I mainly like a few rides there, and not too much, I guess the real bummer is, that there is a lack of places to sit down, and relax, well, without being tormented by the sun.... I think this is a MAJOR over sight.... I realize it's a park that kind of "celebrates" California, and sunshine, etc, but does it have to be so bare? Is they put in MUCH more seats, and WAY MORE shade, maybe they would get more people visiting during the summer months? Thought, hmm?

Also, I am not sure why people say CA is so great, I have lived here all my life, and while I have visited a few places in my youth, CA just seems normal, like growing up in a 5 bedroom house, with a 72" TV, and surround sound (which where not normal in those early 80's ;)) .... CA is just so crowded, and it keeps getting worse... GET OUT OF MY STATE :)! Haha.... But seriously though, DCA can at least provide more places to sit, and more shade (how about some trees?)...

DianeM
08-23-2005, 08:17 PM
But I don't think that DCA really captures the feel of California. It should be called "Hollywood Adventure", really. It's sort of shallow and glitzy and loud. It's fun - but there is no "magic". I go every time I go to DL, but only because I get the pass that allows me to go to both parks. I wouldn't pay just to go to DCA. Okay, I would if they had the Electric Parade. I enjoy TOT, and Soarin', and Grizzly River, and the Muppets. But I can enjoy myself just as much at Disneyland, AND get "magic". I think a lot of it is nostalgia. Disneyland is a place of good memories for me, and I love it. My nephew will probably see DCA as a magical place, since it is as much a part of Disney for him as Pirates or It's a Small World. Meanwhile, the crowds are smaller at DCA and it's a great place to cool off on the rapids, and get lunch or take a break at "It's tough to be a Bug", but I suspect that most people who travel long distances are going to spend the bulk of their time at DL.

Don't think I don't like DCA - I do. Very Much. It's just not as special for me as DL. Of course, it's got some pretty big shoes to fill.



I was in L.A. last weekend visiting some friends and stayed an extra day so that I could visit DCA again. It's been a couple of years for me (ToT was under construction last time), so it was very nice to be back again even though my family will be spending 10 days at WDW starting in about two weeks.

I found it interesting that when I went to the ticket window and asked for a 1-day, 1-park ticket the CM automatically gave me one for DL. I didn't realize this until I was at the DCA turnstile, but the CM there simply took out a pen and scratched out "DISNEYLAND" and wrote "DCA ONLY" on it.

As someone who has spent half of my adult life living in CA (but who currently does not), I was struck by something during this most recent visit. Basically, I think Californians absolutely take for granted what they have and how they live. Compared to my current home (northern Virginia), California is a paradise. I could list many, many concrete examples but will simply state that CA feels more alive and vibrant than other places I've lived in or visited. And so a park that celebrates this magic is lost on those who live it every day and who have forgotten what a wonderful place they have to call home.

Yes, the park is still somewhat lacking in attractions (especially with California Screamin' shut down, Millionaire closed, and SSL in transition to the Monsters, Inc. ride). And yes, I do see signs of cost-cutting and corner-cutting in many areas. But the park still has lots of Disney magic, a host of wonderful attractions, and a solid theme and message regarding the splendor that is California.

I've been thinking about it ever since Sunday when I was in the park, and have decided that lots of Californians just don't appreciate what they have. Therefore, they have trouble appreciating what DCA is. And that's just a shame. :(

HorizonsA
08-23-2005, 08:23 PM
My trips to Disneyland is never complete without a ride on Soarin' Over California. Someone mentioned that California Adventure isn't as good becuase people like me, who live in California, can easily just go to those places ourselves. Well, not enitrely true. It's not like I can just get in my car and decide out of the blue to drive ten hours to go to San Fransisco. The Disneyland Resort is just 30 minutes away from me, so to be able to go to a theme park that's themed to the veru place I live in is pretty amazing.

That's why I really get tired of all the negative threads and posts about California Adventure. Yes, it may not be the Best theme park, but it still manages to put smiles on people, including me everytime. Let's face it, California Adventure is not going anywhere. It's not like if you complain about it enough they'll just up and close it down and destroy it.

Nowhereman
08-23-2005, 09:14 PM
For this to be true, it would also have to be true that all out-of-state visitors appreciate DCA. This doesn't seem to be the case.

It would also have to be true that California is the nicest place in the world. It's nice but there are lots of nice places.

Anyone else catch the huge flaw in this argument? Sorry 3894, but I just had to point out how much this seems to be an incorrect argument.

First, the poster said "...and have decided that lots of Californians just don't appreciate what they have".... the poster mentioned that many, NOT all californians dont appreciate DCA. for the sake of this, lets say thats true (which it probably is). then you say that for this argument to be true that all out-of-state visitors appreciate DCA? thats 100% wrong and flawed.

Im just curious how this is supposed to make sense?

TP2000
08-24-2005, 01:53 AM
Compared to my current home (northern Virginia), California is a paradise. I could list many, many concrete examples but will simply state that CA feels more alive and vibrant than other places I've lived in or visited. And so a park that celebrates this magic is lost on those who live it every day and who have forgotten what a wonderful place they have to call home.


I have lived in 8 other states of this wonderful country in some very famous cities, and I have to say that Southern California, and especially Orange County, has just about the most perfect lifestyle I've ever experienced. A few years in particular when I was living on the East Coast in various places, I would long for the stylish and attractive citizens of Orange County. (Some American cities back East have the most frumpy, behind-the-times, and unattractive citizenry you could imagine! And I'm talking about the upper-middle class folks in the upscale suburbs here! F-R-U-M-P-Y!)

A big part of that longing to move back to SoCal was Disneyland. There is something so typically "SoCal" and "Orange County" about a warm Saturday night at Disneyland, with the dancing and the fireworks and the rides and the lights and the Date Niter locals wandering around. And somehow that feeling just doesn't translate over at DCA. DCA is nice, but it ain't no Disneyland, and it certainly doesn't do much to convey the feeling of "California".

DCA needs a major infusion of atmosphere, something Disneyland seems to have been designed with from day one. Where's Walt Disney when you need him?

3894
08-24-2005, 02:10 AM
the poster mentioned that many, NOT all californians dont appreciate DCA. for the sake of this, lets say thats true (which it probably is). then you say that for this argument to be true that all out-of-state visitors appreciate DCA? thats 100% wrong and flawed.

Im just curious how this is supposed to make sense?

It's in response to :
As someone who has spent half of my adult life living in CA (but who currently does not), I was struck by something during this most recent visit. Basically, I think Californians absolutely take for granted what they have and how they live. Compared to my current home (northern Virginia), California is a paradise. I could list many, many concrete examples but will simply state that CA feels more alive and vibrant than other places I've lived in or visited. And so a park that celebrates this magic is lost on those who live it every day and who have forgotten what a wonderful place they have to call home.

To me, that says "all Californians". It isn't until the last two sentences that OP changes it to "lots of Californians".

Hope that helps.

T&Rshep
08-24-2005, 02:31 AM
I grew up in So Cal and left a year ago for school reasons. If you have been to the actual places the park is based on (San Fran, Santa Monica Pier, wilderness areas) then you can appreciate DCA a little bit more. You also have to understand that from a business stand the company didn't have a lot of money to invest at the time DCA was built. The Imagineers didn't get big bugets and were really restricted by Eisner. However, I do appreciate DCA. And it is true that most people who live in the area only go for the day and choose DL over DCA. Wouldn't you.

ThomasCanty
08-24-2005, 05:13 AM
I love California especially the northern end, and lately have been putting 50,000 miles a year on my car just travelling around the state (and a little of Arizona and Nevada also) on short three to five day trips every few weeks. I also love DCA, and usually spend more time there than DL.

Someone mentioned Knott's in this thread. I used to like that park a lot more than DL, but I think it has changed for the worse since the Knott family sold it, and has gone quickly downhill. I stopped buying AP's there, and in fact didn't even go once during the second half of my last AP's valid period. The last few times I did go there, I only spent an hour or two before becoming bored and heading down to DLR.

HydroGuy
08-24-2005, 07:55 AM
My problem with enjoying DCA is that I constantly compare it to Disneyland, which is a huge icon to live up to and therefore sorta unfair. But I can't help it.For my family, we have stopped comparing DCA to DL (in which case DCA is a distant second), and now view it as an extension of DL. Hence we do not go to DL or DCA per se, but to DLR, which is both. DCA is now a part of of our DL experience and my kids would feel cheated if we skipped it.

SactoGuy
08-24-2005, 08:50 AM
I agree with the original poster... a lot of Californian Natives, just kinda take it for granted... its like "oooh big whoopie doodaa..golden gate, hollywood,..." I know i kinda snubbed my nose at its attempt at SF with the Palace of Fine Arts (im an SF Native =) ). But you know it did stick out in my mind that wow they put the Palace of Fine Arts in the park... an amazingly beautiful structure that i have always taken for granted and never fully appreciated when i was home. To me it stood out like a sore thumb in their little recreation of SF...and too me actualy was pretty impressive that something from SF other then that damn Golden Gate bridge was represented. It was pretty cool to see, and actualy hear people say "Wow, this is in SF?"

But in the end...DCA was just boring to me. It's nice to look at, but the rides? I could do with out pretty much all the pier rides. California Screaming is the only decent one. The chair swing ride, in the big orange...Bleh, The zephyr...Bleh...Mullholand Madness...I left a tooth on that ride, that was the most painful ride i have ever ridden!. Now rides like ToT, California Soarin, even the river rapids ride...Thats DISNEY!!!!!!! The park is really nice and well taken care of till you get to the pier. I think it just needs a lot more, it's half baked... But i remember when the MGM studios sucked big time, and when Epcot was pretty damn borring. They though still felt like disney. I think thats my biggest complaint, the park just doesnt feel like Disney. I think the addition of the Pixar characters is okay, they are disney, but I mean like i have said before, theres potential. Let's just hope they get it together. It doesnt have to be a Pixar only park. The hollywood backlot theming i liked a lot!!! I liked it all till i got to the pier and the area thats supposed to be maybe marin or something? the wharf area? It sucked...but good margaritas! :D

So get with it Disney!!!! Higher some [edited] imagineers and get that place in shape and for the love of god DEMOLISH those lame pier rides...oh yeah and AND this is my one rant.. i was realy dissapointed to see McDonalds in either parks...shame on Disney for that one.

Tinkermell
08-24-2005, 09:10 AM
My two cents whatever they're worth is this. I live in California. It wasn't until recently that Disney finally offered a 1 day hopper pass. Before it was a 2 day hopper pass. Now if I only had 1 day to go to a park, then I would choose DL. Why??? Because for the money, DL was your bang for the buck. DL is almost twice as big (at least it seems like that), and of course the rides are better. Now what I mean by that is...DCA rides for the most part are like regular fair rides. Of couse they are premium in their looks and so on, but still a fair ride. ( I know Calif. Soarin, (which is one of my all time favorites rides), the TOT and so on are wonderful rides). There are just not enough of those kind of rides compared to DL. So if I only had 58.00 dollars to spend on a one day ticket where would I spend it? On DL of course. If I had 99.00 dollars to spend, then I would happy to get a 1 day hopper pass, and get to go to DCA too!! I agree with the comments about parts of the park that are kind of dead. I think Disney is slowly turning those things around. I also agree with the thread about what DCA is competing with. Disneyland!!! The one park that started it all. That's a hard thing to do. One other little comment. I am going to WDW for the first time this year. One of the things most mentioned is to save the MK park for last. Why?? For the same reason. Most believe that compared to the other parks, the MK is best. Now I know that won't be true for all, but that seems to be the general consensus. WOW! Now I've problably have opened up a can of worms. Would welcome all comments about that, seeing that I've never been there. Thanks!

sand20go
08-24-2005, 12:16 PM
Background/disclosure. California native. First 20 years in northern california. Second 20 in So Cal. Been nearly everywhere in the state.

I think there are 3 reinforcing problems with DCA. None of them fatal individually but in concert they doom DCA and require a name change/retheming.


A) California's pleasures are related to the "terrior" (sorry for the high brow French but it is the right word) of the different places in our state. We really are not defined by our history but much more the sense of the different places in our state. It makes the imagineering on any scale particularly hard and difficult. Usually accomplished by disney when it comes to entire "lands" (NOS probably the best; DL mainstreet second, parts of Animal Kingdom third). You have to essentially capture all of the terrior of a location from visual standpoints.

To get this right you would have had to really pump in the resources to build a berm but also remove visual "spillage" from one area to the other. I shouldn't see, for example, Paradise Pier from San Francisco (or the Great Valley). I see a luxury hotel and DTD from the reference to the Sierra Nevada. Napa is just sort of stuck there.

A2) Now I know some of you are saying "What about EPCOT!!! I can see Japan from FRANCE!!!. Here is where the Lagoon makes such a design difference. It provides a way of unifying the whole world showcase (you can see it all). The theme of Epcot is not the group of showcases but rather then ENTIRETY of them. That is the immersion (that may not make sense so ask me and I will try to explain again).

B) Lack of whimsy. Disneyland is increasingly filled with self referencing details that, collectively, create a sense of whimsy. They range from the windows on Main Street to the tribute in the Matterhorn to the phrases on the tombstones in the HM.

C) ACTIVITY. One of the things that makes a small park like Disneyland work is the visual sense of action and movement. Except for "upper (near the hub) Mainstreet DL is all about motion and activity. Check out almost any sight line in the park and you can see different activity in the foreground, midground and farground. DCA doesnt' do that at all. Most of the visuals are either static or do not have the multiple layers that you have at DL. It is a real problem.

Solutions

I am not sure there is much that can me done. The lagoon has to be rethought cause it adds little to the park (the reasons that the Rivers of America "work" is that they provide a place for the boats and a seperation for TSI that is critical - not that the green water in the river is, in and of itself, that nice. The pier need to be completely rethought and "densified" so that it adds activities. As the dearly departed Al L. would say, DCA desperately needs more rides. One of the most important things would be to think about how you could take the current three "e-tickets" (Tower, Soaring, the coaster) and build additional attractions around them to "fill out" the lands. So Tower gets another "creepy ride" nearby, Soaring gets something that makes a reference to CA aviation, the coaster gets somethign more than off the shelf carnival rides.

3894
08-24-2005, 12:20 PM
A) California's pleasures are related to the "terrior" (sorry for the high brow French but it is the right word) of the different places in our state.visual standpoints.

Undoubtedly a typo, sand20go but terroir to mean "sense of place", n'est-ce pas? And I agree with your assessment on that.