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justagrrl
02-16-2002, 11:15 AM
This was brought up on a different thread -
.........................

(Originally posted by all4thx )
" Also, weight may have been a factor in this case. If a parent is overweight and rides with a child their
large gut may prevent a lap bar from properly securing their child. If you're overweight you may want
to take this into consideration when riding with your child. "



..................................................

And where would I see that sort of posted warning at? If it's really a safety concern, then shouldn't it be posted? Why
are parents advised if it's such a concern? Yes, I understand that weight issues with people are very sensitive.

I'm an overweight parent who has had that thought while on a ride - and wondered about the safety issue. Yet at the
same time - there is NOTHING posted or suggested by CM's that would even suggest that there is a problem.

all4thx
02-16-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by justagrrl
This was brought up on a different thread -
.........................
(Originally posted by all4thx )
" Also, weight may have been a factor in this case. If a parent is overweight and rides with a child their
large gut may prevent a lap bar from properly securing their child. If you're overweight you may want
to take this into consideration when riding with your child. "
..................................................
And where would I see that sort of posted warning at? If it's really a safety concern, then shouldn't it be posted? Why
are parents advised if it's such a concern? Yes, I understand that weight issues with people are very sensitive.

I'm an overweight parent who has had that thought while on a ride - and wondered about the safety issue. Yet at the
same time - there is NOTHING posted or suggested by CM's that would even suggest that there is a problem.

Actually, on most amusement park ride safety boards it states that the rider must be in good physical condition to ride. Being overweight instantly disqualifies one from being in good physical condition.

Maybe parks should go as far as to put rude language, like no fat people may ride or maybe a height and ideal weight chart should be posted and if you're pushing more than 20 pounds over ideal you get disqualified.

It is common sense here. Does everything have to be so black and white? Society has really gotten ill.

In my opinion the parks need to take a more aggressive approach in telling overweight riders that they may not ride. The problem is these people raise all hell, claim discrimination, and threaten lawsuits. So the parks are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Perilous Plunge at Knott's is a perfect example of where the park should have refused to allow the person to ride. But most operators are trained to be considerate of overweight guests. Honestly, from my first hand experience I know plenty of operators that let overweight people ride when they shouldn't have just to avoid the conflict.

I am not trying to bring up a sore issues, but people don't read and rarely realize that the posted safety issues are for real.

HBTiggerFan
02-16-2002, 12:43 PM
what is this quote in reference to?

DisneyDody
02-16-2002, 03:39 PM
Considering that the "average" American is overweight Disney would lose A LOT of visitors if they tried to DISCRIMINATE. There are even children who now weigh more than 100 lbs. We live in a generation of fast foods and people are heavier than they've ever been. It would make absolutely no sense for a place like Disney to not allow overweight people on their rides.

disneynut
02-16-2002, 03:47 PM
And good physical condition has nothing to do with being overweight for a lot of people. I know thin people who are not in good physical condition as well as I know a lot of overweight people who are in great physical condition. Good physical condition is a very generic term. What may be "good" to one may be "horrible" to somebody else.

MammaSilva
02-16-2002, 04:01 PM
I think that what has been lost in all of this is good old fashion common sense. I am overweight I KNOW I'm overweight and in rides that require a lap bar restrain I don't ride with my petite daughter, I have one of her cousins ride with her and I request a car by myself...just plain ol common sense. I haven't even gone UP to the loading platform for Screaming because just looking at a distance I'm not sure that I want to attempt to squeeze into that seat/restraint even tho they are individual restraints ..... I am one of the first to speak out if I see parents trying to 'beat' the safety systems on the rides and I take care to make sure that my daughter and any children of any age that are with me are riding as safely as possible. Disney does have some rides that show weight restrictions...at least one over at DCA, of course it's a ride I wouldn't ride if I weighed 90 lbs so it's not discrimanatory to me..... maybe a solution would be to have "mock" seats/restraints somewhere near the que so that familys can test to see if they can ride safely? there has got to be a way to please the general public and save them from their own stupidity without ruining the theme of each ride... but that's just MHO

justagrrl
02-17-2002, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
what is this quote in reference to?

This was a statement from the Splash Mountain Restraints thread - but after I posted to it, it seemed rather off the topic of that thread so I thought I'd start a new one. The quote is from a statement about guest safety/stupidity sort of thing.

all4thx
02-17-2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by DisneyDody
Considering that the "average" American is overweight Disney would lose A LOT of visitors if they tried to DISCRIMINATE. There are even children who now weigh more than 100 lbs. We live in a generation of fast foods and people are heavier than they've ever been. It would make absolutely no sense for a place like Disney to not allow overweight people on their rides.

If it is for the sake of SAFETY then yes it would make sense for any theme park to deny access to the ride. Your response is so typical. You could care in the least about the design of the ride or safety. All you care about is your right to ride. Yet, if you fly off the ride you're going to be the type that will immediately call a lawyer and try to profit from your misfortune.

Read the response from MammaSilva. Her attitude is right on. My original message was in reference to larger people riding alongside smaller people when they use the same restraint.

Rides are designed to accomodate a variety of people, but there are limits. If you're an adult and 100 pounds over your target weight then you might want to think twice about riding. Your body may not be able to handle the forces generated by rides and the restraint systems may not function correctly.

socabch
02-17-2002, 08:24 AM
mammasilva has the right approach. And it's not just overweight parents that need to look at this. My husband over 6 ft tall with big shoulders and thighs. He is not overweight, however, on some rides he gets in a seat alone because the lap bar restraint won't come down far enough over his legs to safely keep my daughters secure. Example is Thunder Mountain. I have seen football player size dads trying to pull the lap bar down tight enough to cut off the circulation in their legs and the child is still swimming around under the bar. Common sense no matter what the situation is should always be used. CM 's are caught between a rock and a hard spot on this one. Maybe they could suggest to the guest that the lap restraint needs to go down far enough to secure the smallest member in the seat. :confused:

DisneyDody
02-17-2002, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by all4thx

Read the response from MammaSilva. Her attitude is right on. My original message was in reference to larger people riding alongside smaller people when they use the same restraint.

Rides are designed to accomodate a variety of people, but there are limits. If you're an adult and 100 pounds over your target weight then you might want to think twice about riding. Your body may not be able to handle the forces generated by rides and the restraint systems may not function correctly.

I do agree with MammaSilva-- It takes common sense here-- but the impression I got from your post was that overweight people should not be able to enjoy the rides. If a ride is truly dangerous for someone carrying extra pounds then there should be a weight limit warning just as Indy, splash and others have a height requirement. But I see no such warnings so to go off saying that overweight people shouldn't ride seems quite harsh. Are there any cases of death or injury at DL caused by a persons weight?
But yes, Mamma is right, as a responsible parent you should always take these things into consideration and I applaud her.

HBTiggerFan
02-17-2002, 11:10 AM
thanks justagirl :) looks like all4thx brought over the whole thing when I was posting :)

HBTiggerFan
02-17-2002, 11:13 AM
I have been on rides somewhere (thinking knotts but maybe mm or dl, just can't remember) anyways with a lapbar like thunder mtn. They have an additional pad that goes over the lapbar if the bar doesn't come down far enough for the smaller rider to make up the difference. It was really a great idea, and maybe Thunder needs that. I wish i remember now, cause I can't explain it right.

justagrrl
02-17-2002, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by socabch
Maybe they could suggest to the guest that the lap restraint needs to go down far enough to secure the smallest member in the seat. :confused:

They certainly shouldn't just stand by and let people go on it, if they or their children, in the CM's opinion, is in danger. While the issue is certainly a topic here - it's one I didn't really consider before riding with my kids. Yes, once on the ride, Thunder Mountain is the one that comes to mind, I thought that it wasn't really giving my son much support.

But - Stupid me - you'd think that someone would kindly have let us known instead of launching us into an uncertain fate. I'd rather suffer a moment of embarassment and some seat rearranging instead of having my child injured or killed.

Now - maybe this will put me in the "just another stupid guest" category - but if this isn't brought to a guests attention,...well...I don't know where I'm going with this actually...maybe I am one. :confused:

Lani
02-17-2002, 11:51 AM
I think you can find quite a few articles linked from Kathy Fackler's Safer Parks Web site (http://www.saferparks.org), but basically you need to be aware that the rides are designed for the "average" rider, which I believe coaster-manufacturer Intamin defines as something like 160 pounds and 5'9". Too tall, too short, too fat, too young, and at some point you no longer fit the safety parameter.

As others have mentioned, especially in the U.S., many customers get downright indignant when they are told they can't ride because of their physical traits. Many parks deal with this by posting oddly phrased signage at the ride entrances. I remember Paramount's Great America in Santa Clara had signs that referred to people of "unusual shapes." gads. I guess that's better than saying "guests who are too tall or too fat."

Knott's Perilous Plunge -- a woman died on that ride last year and I think it turns out she weighed 300 pounds. She plumb tumbled right out of her seat during the drop. Hate to say it but it's possible her weight may have been a contributing factor.

mousey_girl
02-17-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
I have been on rides somewhere (thinking knotts but maybe mm or dl, just can't remember) anyways with a lapbar like thunder mtn. They have an additional pad that goes over the lapbar if the bar doesn't come down far enough for the smaller rider to make up the difference. It was really a great idea, and maybe Thunder needs that. I wish i remember now, cause I can't explain it right.

They use one of those pads on MM at DCA. I was going to have The Boy sit with the Hubby and he wanted to sit with me, I knew the lap bar wouldn't come down far enough and the CM brought out that foam pad. It worked great. Too bad they can't take something like that from DCA and bring it to BTMR, then I could ride with my son and enjoy his reactions the same way my husband always does.

justagrrl
02-17-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by mousey_girl


They use one of those pads on MM at DCA. I was going to have The Boy sit with the Hubby and he wanted to sit with me, I knew the lap bar wouldn't come down far enough and the CM brought out that foam pad. It worked great. Too bad they can't take something like that from DCA and bring it to BTMR, then I could ride with my son and enjoy his reactions the same way my husband always does.


I haven't heard of these foam pad things before.

What is BTMR?

BTW, nice sig.

justagrrl
02-17-2002, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by lani
I think you can find quite a few articles linked from Kathy Fackler's Safer Parks Web site (http://www.saferparks.org), but basically you need to be aware that the rides are designed for the "average" rider, which I believe coaster-manufacturer Intamin defines as something like 160 pounds and 5'9". Too tall, too short, too fat, too young, and at some point you no longer fit the safety parameter.

Thanks for the link. I'll check that out.

The question becomes what is "too" (too tall, too fat, etc) - they post too short - they post too young - and then have the somewhat vague - "good health" consideration - which is VERY subjective. Yeah - I'm overweight - but otherwise I'm in good health. A person with a broken leg is in good health - except for the leg...

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for being safe. But if I get on a ride and no one says anything - then why would I think otherwise? And once again - how overweight is too much? 20 lbs - 30? 70? of course it makes a difference if you're 5foot 2 vs. 6 ft 2... which I suppose it was leads to the general "good health" disclaimer.

justagrrl
02-17-2002, 12:59 PM
Wow - after reading some of that web site I can see what an issue the lap bar is.

Why isn't an issue with those that run theme parks?

Why is no effort made (except for the post above) to advise people as to the safest way to sit? No CM or employee has ever said a thing to me - and while I (and they?) would be a bit embarrassed - how could they place embarrassment over a safety issue.

And don't say I should know better - because then maybe the people with back and heart problems should know better too. Even a sign that says for rides that use lap bars that indicate that people riding together should be about the same size...or something?

HBTiggerFan
02-17-2002, 01:36 PM
Thank you Mousey! I knew I wasn't going crazy!! Why can't they bring those foam padders over to BTMR (big thunder mountain railroad) so adults could ride with their kids. Even a "normal" size adult causes the lap bar to leave a huge gap with a "normal" size kid. If its gonna come down to it, why not redo the whole restraint system so their 2 lapbars?
Justagirl, I don;'t think your being one of those "dumb guests" Its not something I would think about, and have not thought about until now.

all4thx
02-17-2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by DisneyDody
I do agree with MammaSilva-- It takes common sense here-- but the impression I got from your post was that overweight people should not be able to enjoy the rides. If a ride is truly dangerous for someone carrying extra pounds then there should be a weight limit warning just as Indy, splash and others have a height requirement. But I see no such warnings so to go off saying that overweight people shouldn't ride seems quite harsh. Are there any cases of death or injury at DL caused by a persons weight?
But yes, Mamma is right, as a responsible parent you should always take these things into consideration and I applaud her.

I never said that fat people should not be allowed to ride. My point was that if you're overweight you need to take two things into consideration. One, will the restraints still properly work for your body size. Does the mass of your weight lie below or above the restraint?

Second, for more intense rides are you physically fit to ride. Being overweight coincides with other health issues. So are you healthy enough to handle the forces of the ride. This type of ride is usually found at a Six Flags park, not a Disney park.

all4thx
02-17-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by justagrrl
Wow - after reading some of that web site I can see what an issue the lap bar is.

Why isn't an issue with those that run theme parks?

Why is no effort made (except for the post above) to advise people as to the safest way to sit? No CM or employee has ever said a thing to me - and while I (and they?) would be a bit embarrassed - how could they place embarrassment over a safety issue.

And don't say I should know better - because then maybe the people with back and heart problems should know better too. Even a sign that says for rides that use lap bars that indicate that people riding together should be about the same size...or something?

Honestly, most of the stuff on that web site refers to thrill rides not found at Disney theme parks.

As for the lap bar it is one of the safest restraints out there. Don't be fooled by the propoganda going around that suggests otherwise. The history of rides clearly proves it to be extremely safe. Compare the number of rides delivered by an individual ride to the number of accidents on that ride. Those statistics say a lot about safety.

You know most parks doe advise you of the safest way to sit. You just fail to realize it. Many park operators will say keep your hands and arms inside the vehicle and head against the headrest. If your head is against the headrest then your probably sitting up straight. Other parks depending on the ride may tell you to sit up straight. Almost all parks have posted signs warning people with heart and back problems that they should not ride. Many parks also have posted signs that say you should consult with your physician prior to riding a ride or visiting an amusement park. People don't read and they don't listen or pay attention.

But honestly, why does everything always have to be communicated? People don't listen anyway so it is not going to help. This is about common sense and paying attention to things. Raise your awareness in life and you'll surprise yourself as to what you see and learn.

justagrrl
02-18-2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by all4thx
But honestly, why does everything always have to be communicated? People don't listen anyway so it is not going to help. This is about common sense and paying attention to things. Raise your awareness in life and you'll surprise yourself as to what you see and learn.

:rolleyes:

Ghoulish Delight
02-18-2002, 02:31 PM
A posted weight limit, as some have suggested, would be a whole other nightmare. The issue that is being brought up here is about the position of lap bars and other restraints, not the ability of the ride to take the forces. So to say "under X pounds" would not work. We're talking size, not weight. A 6'6" man could easily weigh 250 pounds without being so large as to prevent lap bars from closing. It would be perfectly safe for him to ride. Whereas a 5'4" woman could weigh the same 250 pounds and be large enough to cause a problem. And I don't exactly see them putting a "your waist must fit between these lines to ride" next to the "you must be this tall to ride" sign.

The one ride in DCA that has a weight limit is the Orange Stinger. And that is not because of a size issue, but rather that people over 200 pounds would put an unecessary strain on the chair as it swings. It makes sense there, because the ammount of force put on the chair is a fintie, measureable quantity, directly proportional to weight. Whereas whether a lap bar will close is NOT necessarily proportional to weight, even though there is circumstantial correlation.

Echoing what has been mentioned numerous times already, common sense is what is needed. Sadly, common sense is sorely lacking these days. When exactly did it we begin to live in a world that has to be explicitly told that large hunks of metal zooming around at 30-60 mph are dangerous and should be treated as such?

---------------------

Ouch, I tripped over a curb and broke my arm. There were no signs that said that could happen, so I'd better sue the city!

gautry
02-20-2002, 04:55 PM
Hi all read this in Bush Gardens Sea World area, and also heard that this leg is currently being looked at by Senator Feinstein D CA and Senator Durbin D Il for possible federal law wondering what you all thought.

Theme park patrons will really have to mind their Ps and Qs if a bill that recently passed the Virginia Senate Commerce and Labor Committee becomes law. This bill would levy a $500 fine on rollercoaster riders who

Get off the ride before it stops
Throw things or spit while the ride is moving
Try to get our from under their harnesses
Fail to promptly report injuries

Busch Gardens Williamsburg and Paramount's Kings Dominion strongly support this bill because it gives them another way to enforce their rules other than ejection from the park. They would have to post warning signs about the $500 penalty.

This information comes from the Feb. 5 edition of the Newport News Daily Press .


The last goal of the law may pose a bad legal loop hole for the people that do get hurt. Do to theme park neligence but I have not seen tha statue of limations on the reporting time so its hard to say.
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Morrigoon
02-20-2002, 11:16 PM
Interesting. I'm over 200lbs, and I rode the Orange Stinger. I didn't know there was a weight limit. 200lbs seems frightfully low. I mean, I'm no supermodel, but I'm not exactly a cow either. And for guys? 200 lbs on a tall guy doesn't strike me as terribly unusual, I know any hockey player who weighs under 200 is thought of as quite a lightweight.