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LibertyCall
05-01-2005, 07:15 AM
That's right, the wonderful total immersion and theming that actually makes Disneyland "magical" is nothing more than a ploy to steal children's imaginations! :eek: These are the people that only give their kids rocks and sticks to play with, lest a real toy hamper their imagination you know.



"The most pernicious thing about Disneyland is it steals the imagination by trying to construct total environments," said Dean MacCannell, who wrote a pioneering study of tourism and teaches landscape architecture at the University of California, Davis. "The Disney message is simple: You don't need to have imagination - we'll do all that for you, for a fee."


http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/12819953p-13670137c.html

disneyhound
05-01-2005, 07:26 AM
The world of the University environment is so far removed from reality, no one should be surprised by any quote from a professer; they generally are against anything that is american...

3894
05-01-2005, 07:30 AM
The world of the University environment is so far removed from reality, no one should be surprised by any quote from a professer; they generally are against anything that is american...

Hey, I used to be a college professor and I'm married to one and my dad was one and my uncles on both sides.

The only one in that bunch capable of such Muggle words is Mr. 3894 himself.

pirateabbie
05-01-2005, 07:34 AM
The world of the University environment is so far removed from reality, no one should be surprised by any quote from a professer; they generally are against anything that is american...

I had a professor in college who was fond of telling students a story about how much Disneyland disgusted her. Apparently, a friend convinced her to give it a try and when she got up to the front gates she was so horrified that she became nauseaus and had to turn around. Talk about taking yourself too seriously! :confused:

disneyhound
05-01-2005, 07:37 AM
Hey, I used to be a college professor...
There are exceptions (he says quitely as he bows out of the room)...

LibertyCall
05-01-2005, 07:38 AM
The article had quotes from both sides of the "debate". I just don't see what there is to debate. It's for FUN, people! Is Disney expected to have a scene on splash mtn. depicting a slave being beaten? Or some attraction that showcases the atrocities of the civil war? :confused: IT'S AN AMUSEMENT PARK!

3894
05-01-2005, 08:00 AM
I just don't see what there is to debate. It's for FUN, people!

It just means the academics are taking Disneyland seriously. Take it as a compliment and roll with it, I guess.

bradk
05-01-2005, 08:15 AM
this is exactly why those plastic tea sets don't sell anymore. why do kids want to imagine they're eating and drinking when they can do the real thing instead?

food is the basis of all evil. we must eliminate it for the sake (not the japanese kind) of our children.

tod
05-01-2005, 08:28 AM
"The most pernicious thing about Disneyland is it steals the imagination by trying to construct total environments," said Dean MacCannell, who wrote a pioneering study of tourism and teaches landscape architecture at the University of California, Davis. "The Disney message is simple: You don't need to have imagination - we'll do all that for you, for a fee."

He's right, you know. The all-inclusive environment does stifle your own imagination. It happens in Las Vegas, too.

This doesn't mean the all-inclusive environment is bad. It does mean that you have to find other ways to exercise your imagination, because Disneyland is not the place for it.

Just like [any given food] may be good for you, but if you only eat that food you will get sick, and pretty quickly.

--t

Doombuggies
05-01-2005, 08:41 AM
"The Disney message is simple: You don't need to have imagination - we'll do all that for you, for a fee."

I think guests still ahve their imaginination, just not a brain some times.

Opus1guy
05-01-2005, 09:01 AM
Different strokes for different folks.

In my experience, some folks don't exhibit any of their own imagination when immersed in a highly imaginative environment. They just experience or observe what is dished up for them. They may enjoy and cherish the experience, but it really doesn't inspire them to create new imaginative things on their own. Here I am...wow me. Go home. Game over.

But other people are more participatory. They get swept up in the imaginative experience and enhance it with their own imaginations. They become a little kid on Tom Sawyers Island being chased by Injuns. Or they imagine their own pluses to attractions. Or they go home and are inspired to use their own imaginations to create new things.

Some people go to Epcot's World Showcase and come out saying, "Wow, that was neat. Now I don't have to go to those countries...I've experienced them right here!" While others go, "Wow, that was neat. That really makes me want to go visit those countries in person!"

Individuals view things differently. I don't think the Prof quoted is correct in making a blanket generalization like that, but it probably does have some basis in fact toward some guests. For other guests, Disneyland can be a catalyst for their imaginations.

While not specifically addressing the imaginative experience, I'd just like to paste in this quote to counter some of the negative-ness of the other:

James W. Rouse, in his keynote speech before the Urban Design Conference at Harvard University:


I hold a view that may be somewhat shocking to an audience as sophisticated as this: that the greatest piece of urban design in the United States today is Disneyland.

If you think about Disneyland and think of its performance in relationship to its purpose, it's meaning to people—more than that, it’s meaning to the process of development—you will find it the outstanding piece of urban design in the United States.

It took an area of activity—the amusement park—and lifted it to a standard so high in its performance, in its respect for people, in its functioning for people, that it really does become a brand new thing. It fulfills all its functions it set out to accomplish, un-self-consciously, usefully, and profitably to its owners and developers.

I find more to learn in the standards that have been set and in the goals that have been achieved in the development of Disneyland than in any other piece of physical development in the country.

disneyhound
05-01-2005, 09:33 AM
He's right, you know. The all-inclusive environment does stifle your own imagination...
You can't tell me that you have never had a "Wouldn't it be cool if they would..." thought or expression following a DL ride. Maybe not the ones that you have experienced a thousand times, maybe a new attraction. We are always doing that, you know, using our imagination.

Maybe some people just feel more imaginative at a carne-type gathering in a K-Mart parking lot. ;)

tod
05-01-2005, 10:20 AM
You can't tell me that you have never had a "Wouldn't it be cool if they would..." thought or expression following a DL ride.

I wouldn't call that "exercising your imagination." Looking at an empty area in Toontown and coming up with your own idea -- "They should do a Donald Duck ride here, the ride vehicles would look like this, and..." -- maybe. But that's me.

--t

Germboy
05-01-2005, 10:20 AM
Following the professor's logic, reading a book also "steals" one's imagination.

My lifelong fascination with science was spurred by Adventure Thru Inner Space. My interest in deep sea exploration was developed out of my amazement at being able to dive under polar ice caps. My lifelong study of languages (I got my Bachelor's Degree in a foreign language and studied abroad) was partly influenced in "wondering what the children were singing" in IASW. My interest in seeing other parts of the country has roots in Circlevision (America The Beautiful). My love of jazz grew out of listening to the small group of black musicians that used to play in New Orleans Square, and my love of playing piano started while watching the Coke Corner Pianists' fingers while he played ragtime.

I wonder if the professor has anything to say that would change me fundamentally for the rest of my life. Or is he just using an American icon as leverage to try to attract attention to himself (even if it is negative attention)? Disneyland isn't experienced in a vacuum. I'm sure even this "professor" knows that.

Disney Village
05-01-2005, 10:54 AM
An English Lit teacher I had in High School made the statement one day in class (its been over 20 years so I'm paraphrasing) “Disneyland has done worse for the children of America then all the cocaine in the world.” According to her reasoning it is because Disneyland has a fantasy view of the world and lets children believe that everything is clean and perfect. She further stated that Disney should depict Main Street USA the way it really would look at the turn of the century…dirty, disease, prostitution, crime, tenement housing, child labor, etc, etc…

With these comments like these, sounds like she was bucking for a job at the University level where she could make even more outrageous statements.

tod
05-01-2005, 11:00 AM
An English Lit teacher I had in High School made the statement one day in class (its been over 20 years so I'm paraphrasing) “Disneyland has done worse for the children of America then all the cocaine in the world.” ... With these comments like these, sounds like she was bucking for a job at the University level where she could make even more outrageous statements.

I certainly hope so. What we need at the University level is professors who make students think. Ideally we would have them at the High School level as well, but one step at a time... :D

--t

bradk
05-01-2005, 02:47 PM
Some people go to Epcot's World Showcase and come out saying, "Wow, that was neat. Now I don't have to go to those countries...I've experienced them right here!"

truly. i spent about 10 minutes in the US pavillion before i decided i had enough i could take of that country and there was clearly no reason to visit it in person.

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
05-01-2005, 02:50 PM
this is exactly why those plastic tea sets don't sell anymore. why do kids want to imagine they're eating and drinking when they can do the real thing instead?

food is the basis of all evil. we must eliminate it for the sake (not the japanese kind) of our children.

My kids have 2 plastic tea sets, they are boys too, one at home and one at Grandma's, they love it! Hmm, maybe I don't feed them enough! LOL

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
05-01-2005, 02:53 PM
I look at this on the flip side. I think Disneyland brings out the imagination in all of us. For instance, being on POTC, makes you feel like you are really in a pirate adventure. Being on the Matterhorn, makes you feel like you are on a runaway bobsled. If you didn't have imagination you would just think, wow what a stupid boat ride, or a stupid roller coaster. But with imagination you can make those things almost feel like a reality. At least for me. Or maybe I am in the minority here and need psychiatric help! LOL
Doesn't anyone remember the sign as you enter the main gates and go under the train tracks:
Here you enter the day of.....

Disney Village
05-01-2005, 02:57 PM
I certainly hope so. What we need at the University level is professors who make students think. Ideally we would have them at the High School level as well, but one step at a time... :D

--t

I agree. Getting students to think openly is one of the most important aspects of higher education.

Unfortunately, there are many professors who go beyond provoking thought and debate and instead use their captive, impressionable audience to forward their own agendas and beliefs. Nowadays its seems members of academia and such are going out of their way to outdo each other with statements and writings more intended for shock value then open thought (take that nut-job Professor Ward Churchill for example).

The good news is the vast majority of graduates are able to differentiate between which Professors provide valid, informative thought and others that spew pure gobbledygook as they settle into their post college life and deal with real world issues such as careers, marriage, families, etc.

Wow, now that was off topic!

disneyhound
05-01-2005, 03:02 PM
I wouldn't call that "exercising your imagination."...
Well maybe not getting an "aerobic imagination exercise", but at what level above "resting rate" is required? When is one satisifed that one's imagination is not "flat-lined" due to Walt Disney's oppressive creation? Don't get me wrong, you and the professor have some merit in your opinion, I just disagree with the premise that DL completely stifles ones imagination. Not me baby! ;)

Flint
05-01-2005, 03:14 PM
I agree. Getting students to think openly is one of the most important aspects of higher education.

Unfortunately, there are many professors who go beyond provoking thought and debate and instead use their captive, impressionable audience to forward their own agendas and beliefs. Nowadays its seems members of academia and such are going out of their way to outdo each other with statements and writings more intended for shock value then open thought (take that nut-job Professor Ward Churchill for example).

The good news is the vast majority of graduates are able to differentiate between which Professors provide valid, informative thought and others that spew pure gobbledygook as they settle into their post college life and deal with real world issues such as careers, marriage, families, etc.

Wow, now that was off topic!
Some people need to shocked. Particularly the ignorant ones who've only learned what their family/church has told them. How narrow and dangerous! To blindly go through life and never question the world around them.

Perhaps you're part of the problem, and not the solution?

sleepyjeff
05-01-2005, 05:55 PM
Unfortunately, there are many professors who go beyond provoking thought and debate and instead use their captive, impressionable audience to forward their own agendas and beliefs.

Hear Hear!!!

PirateSmile
05-01-2005, 06:09 PM
Yes, and all non-documentary movies should be burned. BURNED!!!

Disney Village
05-01-2005, 06:48 PM
Some people need to shocked. Particularly the ignorant ones who've only learned what their family/church has told them. How narrow and dangerous! To blindly go through life and never question the world around them.

Shocking someone is easy...anyone can do it and it takes no effort...empty carbs. I'm talking about intelligent debate and critical thinking. Higher education is supposed to be about opening your mind, learning new skills, problem solving, showing that you're able to stick to something for 4 (or more!) years.

No one said anything about not questioning the world around them, however, I'm a little confused about the family/church comment. Sounds a bit superior to equate family and church to ignorance (maybe you're going for the shock value?) I would venture to guess the vast majority of college graduates (and non-graduates) value their own family/church if they choose to...and not dangerously so.


Perhaps you're part of the problem, and not the solution?

Kind of 1960's, but let me think...nope, I'm not. I'm pretty much good to go on this subject.