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merlinjones
01-09-2002, 06:38 AM
Not really.

But think about it... What IF Disney were to commission a clone of the Spider-Man attraction (from Islands of Adventure) for DCA? Universal is struggling, and doesn't seem to have any plans to add the ride at USH. IOA is in another market completely from the DLR. Disney is struggling with financial and creative management malaise and is desperate to bring in locals at least to DCA, but seems clueless on how to acheive this. Spider-Man the movie opens this summer. prepping the masses for such a thrill... and that ride is the best theme park attraction on the planet.

Why doesn't Michael call his old boss Barry and strike a deal?... If Spider-Man came to Hollywood Backlot along with Tower of Terror, they might actually make something happen here.

I know this is a fantasy with such fierce competitors and egos, but stranger things have been known to happen.

Ghoulish Delight
01-09-2002, 08:42 AM
While we're on the subject of wishful thinking, how about the Men In Black ride from Universal Orlando! Haven't been on it, but it looks awsome.

Let's see, Spidey, MIB, Millionaire. We could get a whole New York themed land in this 'California' park! Of course, it's not that much of a stretch. Afterall, most Angelinos WISH LA were as important as New York.

merlinjones
01-09-2002, 10:35 AM
>>We could get a whole New York themed land in this 'California' park! Of course, it's not that much of a stretch. Afterall, most Angelinos WISH LA were as important as New York.<<

Then again, DCA is sort of Eisner/Pressler's version of "ground zero".

innerSpaceman
01-09-2002, 03:11 PM
Actually, what would be best (although this is just as much of a fantasy) would be if Disney would come up with its own films that are worthy of basing theme park attractions on, instead of simply licensing them from other studios. The chances of Universal licensing any of its properties to arch-rival Disney are highly improbable, but even failing that, Disney has been forced to rely on the product of other studios for its attractions based on live-action films (i.e., Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Twilight Zone). In fact, only one Disney live-action film is featured, albeit momentarily, in any of their attractions - and that is the fleeting reference to 'Mary Poppins' in 'The Great Movie Ride' at Disney-MGM. 'Fantasia' gets a nod in that ride as well, and I would be completely satisfied if Disney would get around to the obvious route of basing some theme park attractions on its modern-era animated hits. These are the only Disney films worthy of any theme park rides. Personally, I do not want to see anything at a Disney theme park that is not either based on a Disney film or created especially for by the Imagineers. Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise - these are all heavily influenced by the movies without being specificaly based on a single film. I am one of the stalwarts who deplores the presence of I. Jones or S.Wars at Disneyland. Jones would be just as good an attraction without the presence of John Rhys-Davies in the queue and without those non-lookalike Indy robots on the ride. Yes, I would even gladly sacrifice the really cool rolling ball effect to have a pure creation in the mode of 'Pirates' rather than a licensing of the product of another studio. Borrowing from other studios just makes the Imagineering department seem bankrupt of their own ideas. Certainly, Disney is completely bankrupt of any live-action film that would be worthy of a theme park ride.

Disneylandking
01-09-2002, 03:14 PM
<<Afterall, most Angelinos WISH LA were as important as New York.>>

Yeah, I'm gonna let that one go, so I maintain community standards.

Ghoulish Delight
01-09-2002, 03:25 PM
You definitely have a point, iSm, but I think the more important deficit pointed out here is not theming (though certainly that needs work), but ride technology inovation. I couldn't care less what theme it was, but the format of MIB really appeals to me. Honestly, I'd be just as happy if Universal Hollywood got a clone. Ah, poor Universal Hollywood, the Disneyland of studio theme parks.

It really is sad. The theming creativity went first, as evidenced by Star Tours and Indy. But at least the imagineers were still going full tilt with the technology creativity (well, sort of. Recalling the Indy spoiler thread, isn't Indy a clone of that Dinasaur ride?). Now they don't even have that. Even their best technological leaps have been minor elements of standard ride formats (Grizzly/Soarin'). I mean, I guess you can say Spiderman and MIB are just suped up Indy, but that's like saying Indy is a suped up Mr. Toads. It's not like Grizzly which adds a one shot element (the spin/drop) to a high quality, but standard rapids ride. These three rides took something and added a twist that affects the entire ride experience (Indy-fully articulated vehicle, Spidey-incorparation of 3d, MIB-rider interaction with the ride and each other). We can only hope it hasn't ALL leaked over to Universal.

Morrigoon
01-09-2002, 03:36 PM
You know, a Mary Poppins dark ride would rule.

FriendOfDaisy
01-09-2002, 03:50 PM
Isn't there a Buzz Lightyear ride in Florida? That's probably the only ride based on a recent film, although there are some very good shows. (And then there's Tarzan's treehouse... not sure how to classify that.) I think the attraction based on the most-recent live-action film is "Honey, I Shrunk the Audience," and how long ago did those films come out?

Even so, I don't really care if the attractions are based on recent films as long as we get some new attractions based on *timeless* films. (As cool as the Tron section of the Peoplemover was, how many park guests even caught the reference?) I'd love to see Disney capitalize on some of their "classic heroes" for new attractions in Adventureland/New Orleans Sq/Frontierland. Where's Davy Crocket?? What about Zorro, The Three Muskateers, or any of the other swashbucklers?


David

Morrigoon
01-09-2002, 04:17 PM
Where's Davy Crocket?? What about Zorro, The Three Muskateers, or any of the other swashbucklers?

Explorer canoes......Rancho del Zocalo (okay, that's a weak connection)......Got real potential with that next one......PotC.

merlinjones
01-09-2002, 04:21 PM
Well, I agree that Disneyland should never even have had Lucas attractions in it - - but who cares what goes into DCA at this point? (although my own preferences would be to see Disney related California elements in that park, such as Zorro, Annette/Beach Party, Hyperion Studios, Country Bears et al).

merlinjones
01-09-2002, 04:30 PM
Hypothetical:

At this point, which is a bigger fantasy?:

1) Disney's management allows design of an unproven new E-attraction (comparable or superior to Spider-Man) in-house... and supports the budget to execute it properly.

OR...

2) Disney liscences an already proven hit attraction from an outside vendor (even a fierce competitor) and modifies it to fit their budget.

???

innerSpaceman
01-09-2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
I think the more important deficit pointed out here is not theming (though certainly that needs work), but ride technology inovation.

Can't argue with that. We surely are seeing a real drought in the area of ride tech innovation. I remember one of the best aspects of the early days of Epcot being the increbible advances displayed in ride vehicle technology. It was almost as impressive as the rides themselves. Of course, a future-themed environment is probably more suited to a blatent display of technology - perhaps you wouldn't want to be distracted by the cool vehicle you're in when on a ride of a non-futuristic theme.

On another note, Merlin's ideas for DCA using Disney/California as fodder for attractions is a natural and a great one, but Country Bears? Isn't that a bit of a stretch? I mean, just because it's from Disneyland doesn't make it Californian. Thematically, Country Bears is about as far from California as you can get. Still, he's right about one thing - at this point, ANYTHING good at DCA would be welcome.

Morrigoon
01-09-2002, 04:40 PM
That's not really true. Admittedly the CBJ is more Tennessee than California, BUT, the central valley is still very country, and goodness knows we have woods and forests in abundance, between the redwood forest and Yosemite. It's a stretch, but only a little one. And uh, the vacation hoedown does have a song about California bears.

merlinjones
01-09-2002, 04:49 PM
>>On another note, Merlin's ideas for DCA using Disney/California as fodder for attractions is a natural and a great one, but Country Bears? Isn't that a bit of a stretch? I mean, just because it's from Disneyland doesn't make it Californian. Thematically, Country Bears is about as far from California as you can get. Still, he's right about one thing - at this point, ANYTHING good at DCA would be welcome.<<

Well, BEARS are certainly Californian (and have you ever been to Bakersfield? - - you can't get more Country even in Nashville).

Regardless - - My own idea would be to make them the Humbolt County Bear Jamboree - - the same characters - - but singing California homegrown folkrock ala Mamas and the Papas, Jefferson Airplane and the Grateful Dead. tell me those Bears wouldn't be hilarious in Dead/hippie drag. The whole thing could be set-up like an outdoor folk festival. It would be avery accessible (more than Country) venue for local Boomers and their kids.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some humor about California in this park? That's what's missing here to me, Disney cartoon humor and caricature.

Iceman
01-09-2002, 04:59 PM
Wow! So many items to address; here we go:

- It's not inconceivable that Disney could license a ride or a movie tie-in from Universal. Eisner and Diller get along (I think), so maybe the time is right for such a collaboration.

- Imagineering doesn't only mean brand new concepts that are leaps and bounds beyond anything that's been done before. I see no problem with taking a quality product (like the Lucas films) and then making a Disney-quality attraction out of it.

- Indy is not a clone of Dinosaur; it's more the other way around. Countdown to Extinction (now renamed Dinosaur as a tie-in to Disney movie) uses the ride technology first developed for Indy several years earlier.

- MIB is not that great a ride, and it's a blatant copy of Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin. The concept is basically the same--you are in a rotating vehicle on a fixed track shooting targets all around you and get a score at the end of the ride.

- I'll catch flak for this, but Spiderman's not that great a ride either. I stand by my contention that the theming is sketchy, the ride itself jarring and disjointed, and adding 3-D to a moving ride isn't that revolutionary. All that being said, it would be fairly simple to spruce it up to Disney standards and change the theme to the buildings in downtown L.A. (now you've got your California theme).

- And finally, as for wishing L.A. were as important as New York... I will join Disneylandking in taking the high road and witholding comment.

Morrigoon
01-09-2002, 05:03 PM
I think it's safe to say that in present times, LA is glad it's not considered as important as New York.

(Please note that I said "considered", I refuse to get into the argument of who's "actually" important)

merlinjones
01-09-2002, 05:15 PM
>>I'll catch flak for this, but Spiderman's not that great a ride either. I stand by my contention that the theming is sketchy, the ride itself jarring and disjointed, and adding 3-D to a moving ride isn't that revolutionary. All that being said, it would be fairly simple to spruce it up to Disney standards and change the theme to the buildings in downtown L.A. (now you've got your California theme). <<

I strongly disagree. Spider-Man totally wowed cynical old me - - by far the best ride I've been on in years! (Way better than Indy). I was sincerly blown away.

Spider-Man is set in NYC, not LA.

MonorailMan
01-09-2002, 05:28 PM
Hence the reason for pulling the movie preview with the twin towers in it.

Morrigoon
01-09-2002, 05:43 PM
You know, I'm getting so tired of that. They existed. Why is Hollywood trying to pretend they were never part of the skyline? Am I so over-sensitive that I cannot bear the sight of them? No.

innerSpaceman
01-09-2002, 06:41 PM
Ok, this is a bit off topic, but let me veer for awhile.

I think it's ok for upcoming film releases to remove the Trade Center from the skyline, otherwise instead of the movie seeming like Today, it will seem like Yesterday. Also, and let's just face facts here, the mere sight of the WTC is at least momentarily jarring and removes the viewer from the flow of the movie, if only for an instant.

What's even wierder than seeing the WTC in the upcoming Spiderman would be, is the view of it in "AI" - where it's portrayed as being there very far in the future. It's a jarring shot because now we know that such a future cannot and will not exist. Still, I'm glad the filmmakers or the studio were not tempted to digitize it out of the DVD.

Ok, that's all. Now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

I capitulate to Merllin's California concept for revised Country (or County) Bears. It's a winner, a crowd-pleaser, and most definitely Californian.

Morrigoon
01-09-2002, 06:49 PM
It's not inconcievable that they will someday return... though that remains to be seen. Personally, I think they ought to rebuild them if for no other reason than to show that we won't have our lives or our world changed by them (reengineered though, better fire/temperature control, and more strength, if that's even possible).

I'm not against the idea of putting in some mamas&papas style music to the CBJ, but I would hate to see them "done over" as californians. The only one you could really get away with that on is Shaker, and maybe the one who keeps falling in love with other species. Teddi Barra would make a great "starlet", though she already kinda does that with the Singin In The Rain bit. I could see her doing a Carpenters number though!

Nigel2
01-09-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
You know, I'm getting so tired of that. They existed. Why is Hollywood trying to pretend they were never part of the skyline? Am I so over-sensitive that I cannot bear the sight of them? No.

But the thing that disgusts me the most is that they make tons of crap with NYC or 9/11 or US on it and they sell it to an overly saturated public and make money off of it, then they act like they are doing the "proper" thing. If they said that they were in it for the money I wouldn't have a problem but since they are trying to hide their true intetion, its wrong. Also who really wants a coffee table book of photos of post 9/11 WTC?

Oh, now back to what I was going to say. Spiderman was the ONLY reason that IOA got the "best" park rating from A&E (or was it another network?). Dino/CTE is a "physical" clone of indy since they both use the exact same track shape and vehical design, but indy has a different (better) experiance.:D

coronamouseman
01-09-2002, 10:06 PM
A few comments:

(1) No way IOA or Universal would license one of their "franchise" attractions to Disney - Universal is competing with Disney around the world and the Spiderman ride, once the movie franchise gets going, will probably be a huge marquee attraction in most all of their parks where it can be fit in. Same thing for Men in Black (in my opinion a big disappointment) - expect this ride to show up in other Universal parks.

(2) Lucas' Indy and Star Wars attractions were perfect fits for Disney in terms of technology and theming - if Disney didn't provide the venue for Lucas than Universal or some other park would (and the treatment would probably have been far less effective since there are no other parks themed quite to the extent that Disney parks are). Both attractions are great as is, but remember that since they are controlled by software programs those programs can be changed - one might imagine a day when these rides have multiple programs (with internal variables of course) which are run over the span of a few days to provide variety and encourage repeat visits (one of the biggest draws of DAK - it never gives you the same tour twice). Also, look at Dinosaur/Countdown to Extinction - see how much different it turned out without Lucas' in the fold - I personally like D/CTX better than JP in either Universal Park (has better dinosaurs) but clearly Lucas' Indy is far superior to Disney's modified version.
Lucas as a creative force is a real "Top Gun" - I think anything Disney can do to have the "Best of the Best" designing attractions for them is a step in the right direction.

merlinjones
01-10-2002, 06:09 AM
>>Lucas as a creative force is a real "Top Gun" - I think anything Disney can do to have the "Best of the Best" designing attractions for them is a step in the right direction.<<

True enough. In the end, I'm very glad they got involved with Disney, as Lucas' clout and taste can make good things happen. In fact, I just wish they'd just give Tomorrowland over to him completely.

I'd even be happy if George Lucas were one day to run the Walt Disney Co. I'm sure he'd usher in another golden age.

merlinjones
01-10-2002, 06:13 AM
>>I capitulate to Merllin's California concept for revised Country (or County) Bears. It's a winner, a
crowd-pleaser, and most definitely Californian.<<

Thanks! Now, let's get it done, fellas.

Picture Trixie in a Mama Cass outfit!!!