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thamnarestan
01-03-2002, 08:57 AM
Working guest control a few nights ago I was stuck watching the fireworks show, and I heard a line in the show's theme song that must be incorrect:

"Remember the candy"???

Please tell me that I heard that incorrectly. If not, does anyone else think that is incredibly shallow? Is that what Disney now thinks Christmas is about... CANDY? Give me a break.

"God rest ye merry gentlemen let nothing you dismay/
remember Christ our Savior was born on Christmas Day/
to save us all from Satan's power when we have gone astray/
oh tidings of comfort and joy."

Now those are appropriate lyrics to a Christmas song. Sums up the true meaning of the holiday quite well.

Cadaverous Pallor
01-03-2002, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
Is that what Disney now thinks Christmas is about... CANDY?
Waiiiiit a minute here.....you mean to tell me that you've been working at Dland all through December and you're just now realizing that Disney isn't here to spread the word of Jesus? Um, they make TONS of money off of Xmas and just like any retail business, concentrate a lot of their energy into getting people to spend money on THEM for Xmas. Disney plays Xmas music on Main Street and sells Santa hats with Mickey ears on them and makes it snow in Anaheim for one reason only - to make money. This is a big holiday for them - but not for religious reasons.

So yeah, I remember the candy - and the hot cider, and the Xmas Pooh sweatshirts, and the Goofy stockings, and the huge mutant Xmas tree......

thamnarestan
01-03-2002, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Waiiiiit a minute here.....you mean to tell me that you've been working at Dland all through December and you're just now realizing that Disney isn't here to spread the word of Jesus? Um, they make TONS of money off of Xmas and just like any retail business, concentrate a lot of their energy into getting people to spend money on THEM for Xmas. Disney plays Xmas music on Main Street and sells Santa hats with Mickey ears on them and makes it snow in Anaheim for one reason only - to make money. This is a big holiday for them - but not for religious reasons.

So yeah, I remember the candy - and the hot cider, and the Xmas Pooh sweatshirts, and the Goofy stockings, and the huge mutant Xmas tree......

Don't you think Disney is being insensitive to Christians by exploiting one of their most important holidays (though admittedly not as important as Easter) for monetary gain?

Seriously, though, even if one has a completely secular understanding of the holiday, Christmas should still be more about candy and gifts and crap like that.

In my opinion, this Christmas fireworks show is yet another example of the decreasing quality of Disneyland entertainment. As Al has been pointing out in his DIG Updates, most Disneyland shows are now geared towards children-- and this one is no exception, with it shallow understanding of the holiday.

Cadaverous Pallor
01-03-2002, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
Don't you think Disney is being insensitive to Christians by exploiting one of their most important holidays (though admittedly not as important as Easter) for monetary gain?
If that's really the way you feel about it, then shouldn't you be angry at every mall that plays Xmas muzak, every department store that hangs up tinsel, every company that has a commercial geared around Xmas? Don't be fooled - they only do all this because they want to make money off of Xmas. If they didn't make money off of it they wouldn't do it. It costs thousands of dollars to hang huge wreaths inside shopping malls, but it's worth it, because the better the decorations, the more shopping people do.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, Jesus wasn't born in December. If it means that much to you, you wouldn't even celebrate it now.

thamnarestan
01-03-2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor

If that's really the way you feel about it, then shouldn't you be angry at every mall that plays Xmas muzak, every department store that hangs up tinsel, every company that has a commercial geared around Xmas? Don't be fooled - they only do all this because they want to make money off of Xmas. If they didn't make money off of it they wouldn't do it. It costs thousands of dollars to hang huge wreaths inside shopping malls, but it's worth it, because the better the decorations, the more shopping people do.

I was actually just kidding. I do understand that not everyone celebrates Christmas for religious reasons anymore.


Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Oh, and in case you didn't know, Jesus wasn't born in December. If it means that much to you, you wouldn't even celebrate it now.

The truth is, no one really knows when He was born. That doesn't mean Christians shouldn't still celebrate His birth, even on an arbitrary date.

Oh, and by the way, do you make a point of saying "Xmas" instead of "Christmas"?

Cadaverous Pallor
01-03-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
I was actually just kidding.
Why didn't you say so? :D Sorry if I come across as blunt, I just get annoyed at people that yell about the "true meaning of the season" and then go out and spend hundreds of dollars on stuff.

The truth is, no one really knows when He was born. That doesn't mean Christians shouldn't still celebrate His birth, even on an arbitrary date.
Ok, I can dig that.

Oh, and by the way, do you make a point of saying "Xmas" instead of "Christmas"?
Sort of. I prefer to type it that way, since I'm not Christian. Christ means messiah, and I do not believe that Jesus is (or was) the messiah.

It's not that big a deal with me, though, and I can type Christmas and not have a heart attack. :) I just prefer Xmas.

stinkerbell
01-03-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by thamnarestan

In my opinion, this Christmas fireworks show is yet another example of the decreasing quality of Disneyland entertainment. As Al has been pointing out in his DIG Updates, most Disneyland shows are now geared towards children-- and this one is no exception, with it shallow understanding of the holiday.

I disagree with this one. The fireworks moved me and I made a point to see it each night I was there in Dec. My six year old however (and even her friends who we met up with there) couldn't wait for it to get over, so they could cram in one last ride before closing. Looking around me, it was the adults that were fascinated with the show, the kids were bored to tears and ready to get going. The snoap did not even appeal to most of the kids, which was disappointing to me as well. Oh well, I liked it. But I'm not at DL as often as you or CP.

Also, Disney is just as guilty as EVERY big business and mom and pop business, the entertainment industry, the restaurant industry, etc. for taking advantage of the holidays to bolster their sales. The economy unfortunately and stupidly revolves so much around the earnings of the holiday quarter now. This is not new. Notice at Target that Christmas decorations go up the same time as Halloween decorations in AUGUST each year now? Notice that Wal-Mart has Easter decorations and Easter attire for sale at the day-after-Christmas sale? I think it gets a little more out of control each year. I think you're right, the point of the holidays is being forgotten more and more. It seems so sad sometimes.

So, yes "remember the candy" seems pretty darn shallow to me. But Disney isn't all to blame. I spent $700 in four days just on Christmas presents and food at DLR.......and have little to show for it except the memory of the smiles on my kids' faces Christmas morning when they got the Disney Christmas that was not forced down my throat, but which I sought out and gladly spent my money for. Secular? Yes. Shallow? Maybe. Would I do it again? You bet!!!;)


Sorry, my point wandered a little here and there.............:confused: but I'm too lazy to edit.

cemeinke
01-03-2002, 10:15 AM
It seems to me that Disneyland is a commercial entertainment venture. As noble as it may be, I doubt its guest's spiritual well-being is (or should be) part of its mission.

I'd suggest that anyone seeking spiritual guidance really ought to be in a place of worship, or meeting with other like-minded individuals, and not in a theme park.

I don't think a theme park should strive to be a church, plain old churches do a better job of that.

mad4mky
01-03-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by cemeinke
It seems to me that Disneyland is a commercial entertainment venture. As noble as it may be, I doubt its guest's spiritual well-being is (or should be) part of its mission.

I'd suggest that anyone seeking spiritual guidance really ought to be in a place of worship, or meeting with other like-minded individuals, and not in a theme park.

I don't think a theme park should strive to be a church, plain old churches do a better job of that.

I agree so much with your statement. It is a theme park..and they want our money...period. They know which "product" to sell us...and we lap it up.
I too loved the fireworks, Stinkerbell, and was there everynight. My kids laughed at the way I got all sappy over them...oh well, I was making memories for ME! They will make choices to make their own.

And in regards to the church thing....In San Francisco, at the Was Museum...before they had refurbished it...they had a scene of the last supper. It was beautiful. But...they put pews in there...and people were actually in there kneeling and praying...in a wax museum...in the next room was the Chamber of Horrors!!
I couldn't believe that these people paid, what, $14.00 or more each to pray to a wax scene, that held no more spirituality than a theme park.

Thamnarestan...I won't banter with you. But, everyone is very individual in the way they believe, pray and have their own spirituality beliefs. I didn't make fun of the people who were praying in a wax museum...I wanted to. But, I respect their right to do want they want...as long as it wasn't hurting me or mine.:)

Disney does the commercial thing...and it sells well. It sure got me in the mood for Christmas this year.:D

innerSpaceman
01-03-2002, 11:26 AM
One of the things that Disneyland USED to do for Christmas that was not geared toward making money or commercialism was the Candelight Procession and Ceremony WHEN IT WAS PERFORMED IN TOWN SQUARE. This was an event for VIPs only - regular guests could not even see the thing unless they camped out for hours in the few square feet of Town Square that were not reserved for invited guests. All others had no view of the incredible show, as it was totally blocked by the gargantuan Christmas tree. As such, it was not geared toward increasing guest attendance or making any more money than would otherwise be made on the two days of the event.

Although Disneyland's current commercial-based efforts (decorations, etc.) still get me in the mood for the holidays (and for which I pay nothing extra - don't spend a dime more than I would on any day at the Park), I must say that nothing in the physical world got me in the mood for Christmas more than the old Candlelight Procession. It was a stupendous holiday gift with no commercial aspects to it.

As for the holidays becoming ever more commercialized, at Disneyland or elsewhere - that has been a constant feature of modern life. The conundrum this presents was summed up best way back in the 60's by 'A Charlie Brown Christmas.' Commercialism and Xmas will go hand-in-hand as long as the holiday spending season is the cornerstone that props up our U.S. consumer-based economy. It's up to each of us to remember the spirit of Christmas apart from that, in the nature each of us may want to and to the extent each of us may want to.

merlinjones
01-03-2002, 12:06 PM
The Candlelight Procession and service/concert in Town Square used to make me cry (in the right way). Those were some of the most Christmas-y moments I have experienced in LA. I won't go see it at Videopolis.

Funny antecdote: One year I took a friend (30 year old woman) who hadn't seen Candlelight before. While we were waiting for it to begin, she asked what the program was. I told her a celebrity would come out and read the Christmas Story, which would be augmented by a chorus. She asks earnestly, "Which Christmas story?". All the people standing near us giggled and turned to look at her in amazement. After a beat, I deadpanned, "Mickey's Christmas Carol." Which got a great laugh. When she realized which Christmas story, she turned as red a candy cane and even shed a tear for her lost beliefs of youth.

HBTiggerFan
01-03-2002, 01:00 PM
Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas

Hey Look I am still alive!! WOW Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas

Yes, I am doing this just to annoy you thamnarestan. If you cannot see how Disneyland is just like every other business trying to make money off the holidays (all of them, not just xmas), then maybe your one of the CMs sucking the happiness right out of Disneyland.

Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas

lisap
01-03-2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by cemeinke
It seems to me that Disneyland is a commercial entertainment venture. As noble as it may be, I doubt its guest's spiritual well-being is (or should be) part of its mission.

I'd suggest that anyone seeking spiritual guidance really ought to be in a place of worship, or meeting with other like-minded individuals, and not in a theme park.

I don't think a theme park should strive to be a church, plain old churches do a better job of that.

Well said--very important concept...

I have to share something my seven year old said when we were at the Park the night of the candlelight procession. We did not have tickets, but she was asking what it was about and I was telling her that people sang and someone read the Christmas Story out of the Bible. She was incredulous about the Bible part, and then I told her the man who did the voice of Cogsworth was reading the story and she said "oooohhh, he must be a Christian!"
I had to stifle a smile and said maybe he was, but that at Christmas, everyone likes to hear the story of the Nativity--even people who don't call themselves Christians. So she was getting a few mixed signals that night as well...

(I'm actually shocked that they still read the Christmas Story instead of Mickey's Christmas Carol. )

tinkfreak
01-03-2002, 02:22 PM
The first few times I heard it, I was right there with you. It does sound like she says Candy. But she doesn't. Listen to the line right after that, she says "The season for sharing"

It goes:

Remember the CARING
The season for SHARING

Not Candy.CARING

Gemini Cricket
01-03-2002, 04:14 PM
I can't help but feel baited by thamnarestan with this thread. So I'll just respond by saying:

I love Xmas candy. But Halloween candy is good too.;)

Flubber
01-03-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
The Candlelight Procession and service/concert in Town Square used to make me cry (in the right way). Those were some of the most Christmas-y moments I have experienced in LA. I won't go see it at Videopolis.

My feelings exactly.

Candlelight was truly moving when performed in Town Square. Those nights were beyond packed on Main Street and until recently I never felt so connected to total strangers standing around me. Some of my best Christmas memories.

What were we talking about?

Flub

lisap
01-03-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Flubber


What were we talking about?

Flub

Christmas candy=yummy

Nigel2
01-03-2002, 09:42 PM
Ok we have about 2 tons of see's candy left from the holdiays, who wants it?:D But you will have to pry the godiva from our cold dead hands.:D

Morrigoon
01-03-2002, 09:50 PM
Okay, I can't resist a good Christmas debate. Here are my thoughts on the issue.

First of all, as regards candy - remember that much of our fondness for the holiday comes from our memories of what it felt like to be a kid at Christmas. Look at it from a small child's perspective: the world around you is decorated in beautiful lights and other festive decorations. There is an abundance of candy canes, hot chocolate, cookies, and other festive (and usually sweet) foods. You spend weeks fantasizing about things you've wanted all year, and, being a child with no personal income to speak of, you are entirely dependent upon someone else (parents or santa claus) to give you.

At different times in our lives, different things bring us joy. As a kid, it just happens that toys, cookies, and yes, candy, bring you joy. As adults, seeing joyful children, preferably your own, brings you joy.

Now getting back to how this all ties in with a more traditional celebration of Christmas. I'm fairly sure that our present gift-giving tradition owes much of its existence to the wise men, bringing gifts to the newborn king. In those days, it was traditional to bring gifts to royalty, to show your respect to them, and also to curry favor. (Okay, it was also commanded by the angels, but let's stick to a cultural perspective on this one). One could also argue that the world was given a tremendous gift by god, that of his son. So in honor of the occasion, we give gifts to eachother, to remind us of the gifts given on that first Christmas. Gift giving also reminds us that there is a greater reward in serving (pleasing) others, than in only serving our own interests. Such philosophy is repeated throughout the bible, encouraging us to look to our fellow man's needs as if they were our own. So it reinforces that traditional value.

Finally, we are CELEBRATING something. At celebrations, be they birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries, or any other kinds of celebrations, there are festive foods (ah, we get back to candy again!) and decorations. Christmas, being a day (in many people's opinions) worth celebrating, is appropriately accompanied by all the trappings of modern celebrations.

I guess what I'm getting to is that I see no harm in the commercialization of Christmas, or any other "Hallmark holiday," if you will, because, well, THAT'S HOW YOU CELEBRATE SOMETHING. If the day did not bring you joy, it would be unworthy of such trappings, but we do honor to the day by having the parties, trees, gifts, and festive foods.

Remember the candy, if that was the actual line, is admittedly a tad off-center, but not entirely inappropriate, given how we celebrate the day.

thamnarestan
01-03-2002, 10:03 PM
Don't you think forbidding the CMs to say "Merry Christmas" is a bit extreme, though? I was actually instructed by my leads not to tell the guests "Merry Christmas" (...I did it anyway, though).


Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas

Hey Look I am still alive!! WOW Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas

Yes, I am doing this just to annoy you thamnarestan. If you cannot see how Disneyland is just like every other business trying to make money off the holidays (all of them, not just xmas), then maybe your one of the CMs sucking the happiness right out of Disneyland.

Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas Xmas

Morrigoon
01-03-2002, 10:25 PM
Absolutely. That's the most outrageous thing I've ever heard.

So a few people don't celebrate the holiday, they don't have to get all huffy and offended about it. Just say thanks and shut up for crying out loud. Besides, if people were looking to avoid Christmas, they went to the WRONG place! Whoever your lead is, is an idiot, or whoever dictated that ill-advised policy is.

For once, Thamnarestan, I completely agree with you... that's insane.

MickeyD
01-03-2002, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
Don't you think forbidding the CMs to say "Merry Christmas" is a bit extreme, though? I was actually instructed by my leads not to tell the guests "Merry Christmas" (...I did it anyway, though).



I don't think it's that extreme. 5 years ago I worked retail and I was told to wish people "Happy Holidays" because we had quite a few Jewish customers. On the other hand, at Disneyland non-Christmas celebraters are already being hit over the head with tree, lights and music, so what's one more thing? But to me it's less self centered and more respectful to wish someone a generic holiday blessing if you don't know that they wish to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

marron-cream
01-04-2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
Don't you think forbidding the CMs to say "Merry Christmas" is a bit extreme, though? I was actually instructed by my leads not to tell the guests "Merry Christmas" (...I did it anyway, though).



Thamnarestan: I got that little talk, too. I wished people a Merry Christmas anyway. I didn't/don't see the big deal. I'm not telling them I hope a piano drops on their head or something equally bad. If someone is going to be SO offended by my sharing a happy feeling that I hold near and dear to my heart, well, they should get a life.

Oh, having heard that fireworks song enough times to sing it in my sleep, I can tell you for sure that it doesn't say "Remember the candy."

EandCDad
01-04-2002, 04:20 AM
The use of X-Mas instead of Christmas has always been interesting to me. Did ya' ever wonder how it got like that. I always assumed it was some secret plot by people who wanted to avoid writing the word "Christ" in Christmas.

My understanding is that in Greek the word Christ is Christos (Christ is a Hebrew word that means "annointed one"). The "ch" sound at the beginning of Christos is written with the Greek letter "chi" which is represented with an "x". (That's a shorthand version, I don't speak or understand Greek, insert your own obvious joke here.)

Anyway, some people have adopted the letter "X" as a shorthand for Christ when writing. I guess this is common in seminaries when students are taking notes. X begins to become a shorthand reference and when you are writing about Christmas, XMas becomes an acceptable substitute.

Anyway, it doesn't help us "remember the candy" or caring or whatever but just some info.

Also, the word Christ is not like the word Shazam, saying it or writing it isn't going to transform you or anything. And I'm pretty sure the Pilgrims didn't have the first Thanksgiving on the third Thursday of November so the fact that an arbitrary date is picked for Christmas doesn't mean too much to me. We don't even celebrate Washington and Lincolns birthdays on the days they were born, and we know when they are.

stinkerbell
01-04-2002, 10:28 AM
Dang it, EandCDad, I've been running around the house yelling Shazam! and nothing is happening....... apparently nothing happens when you say that word either.

And no, the voice is not saying "Remember the candy." But it's a good discussion, nonetheless.;)