View Full Version : Immune Attractions
In 50 years, Disneyland will probably look incredibly different from what it looks like today. But there are some rides that they can't really take out (Small World, Mark Twain, Matterhorn, and more)...so what will they do? I wouldn't want any of those to be taken out, but they will eventually get old and the general public will want something else.... Will they just redo them, or (gasp) take them out and put something new in? I know this won't happen anytime soon, but still....I plan to be around for a long time.
DisneylandKid
12-29-2001, 03:34 PM
Interesting question. Disney was talking about taking out Small World a few months back---but I think that that has passed.
I think that for classics such as Small World, Jungle Cruise, Mark Twain, and Matterhorn, the park will simply continue to update them, adding new things to the sides, and possibly even a new track route after a long while.
But if you think about it, Disneyland should never be without (besides those listed above):
Indy
Big Thunder
Splash
Space
the Fantasyland dark rides
Roger Rabbit
Star Tours
Autopia
.......so they would have to continue to update these. Have I made any sense? No? Sorry.
coronamouseman
12-29-2001, 03:58 PM
One has only to visit Werner Weiss' Yesterland web site to see the vast amount of attractions at Disneyland have "bit the dust" over the years.
One has to only spend a few minutes looking at the empty Submarine Lagoon or the abandoned Rocket Rod/Peoplemover tracks or the ghostly remains of the Hunchback of Notre Dame show to realize that any attraction can be scrapped should Disney management see fit to do so ............
Yes, it would seem that the expensive attractions of the last 10-20 years will probably remain, but what if Star Tours does not get a new program in the next couple of years? Has not most every guest at Disneyland ridden that ride in California, Florida, Paris or Tokyo yet?
I know that they take some rides out.... but the Rocket Rods didn't work. you would've thought that CBJ would have been "immune" but I guess not...... oh well.
Nigel2
12-29-2001, 09:53 PM
If Star Tours doesn't get an updade in 5 years or so it may be on the chopping block since there haven't been any real changes to the actual ride and if Lucas doesn't want to make any more it could be bye bye for ST.
Morrigoon
12-29-2001, 10:38 PM
I wouldn't count Jungle Cruise as immune. It's certainly classic... but not immune.
LIMANDL4EVA
12-30-2001, 01:29 PM
i dont think lucas will ever get around to it, and i would say the jungle cruise is very immune to extinction
DZNYLNDEXTNCTCLB
12-30-2001, 01:56 PM
the train station at main street usa
its an icon
no way it could be gone
coronamouseman
12-30-2001, 06:31 PM
1. Agree with nigel2 - Star Tours will be history without an update of some kind - get the feeling that Lucas may be on the outs with Disney because of their insistance on limiting costs of his projects and let's face it, Lucas is a guy who can afford to doing things his way or not at all (personally, I think Eisner is missing the boat here as Lucas himself is such a name brand and Disney needs unique attractions like Indy and Star Tours if they are going to keep their place in the theme park industry)
2. Disagree with Morigoon - Jungle Cruise is one of the keystone attractions at Disneyland in that guests of all ages can experience it together (although one would have thought the same of the Submarines/20K Leagues rides and the old Mine Train ride ..........) Since the JC occupies so much space in those parks where it exists, hard to see it eventually going away.
Sure, update it with new features (maybe some nasty crocs, hippos, etc.) but at least keep the attraction there.
Morrigoon
12-30-2001, 08:29 PM
It's the space it occupies that endangers it. Remember how short sighted Pressler and crew are. If that mess across the esplanade teaches us anything, it's that the current heads just don't get the "whole family having fun together" concept. In a perfect world, JC would only recieve upgrades/updates. But current management is far from perfect. And JC takes a lot more CMs than a dark ride.
I agree that it's classic, and I'd be joining the folks marching down to City Hall if they threatened to remove it. But it wouldn't help JC any more than it helped the CBJ - a classic I would have labeled immune til they ripped it out.
Nigel2
12-30-2001, 10:32 PM
I was thinking about what other attractions aren't immune and actually I think Snow white, at least in it's current form, may not be 100% immune to major changes. But odds are it won't get to the chopping block since it isn't as expensive to run since they only need 2-3 cms running the front.
the subs were taken out because they cost a lot and needed 2 CMs in each Sub right? The JC needs one in each boat....and there are about 7(?) boats at one time...and it's not one of the mose popular rides, although it is one of the best ones.
DisneylandKid
01-01-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Squinky
the subs were taken out because they cost a lot and needed 2 CMs in each Sub right? The JC needs one in each boat....and there are about 7(?) boats at one time...and it's not one of the mose popular rides, although it is one of the best ones. Jungle Cruise normally has a pretty long line!
I guess now that the Indy fastpass line exit is like 3 steps from the JC line it gets more people.... but it never has more than a 15 minute wait... but I can't imagine what they would put there, since it would have to be worth taking out the jungle cruise, but that's not that much space, and they can't have a big e-ticket right next to indy.
Nigel2
01-01-2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Squinky
the subs were taken out because they cost a lot and needed 2 CMs in each Sub right? The JC needs one in each boat....and there are about 7(?) boats at one time...and it's not one of the mose popular rides, although it is one of the best ones.
Nope just like jungle cruise, 1 in each sub 2 to load and 2 to unload at each dock. And both had sizeable lines during the summer, but the difference was the SV was harder to maintain since it was all underwater.
stinkerbell
01-02-2002, 12:20 AM
I'm chuckling a little as I read this as it turns to a discussion on the number of CM's to run a ride. When I was at DCA on 12/1, there were eight CMs at the Golden Zephyr. EIGHT. There were two at the gate, one at the foot of the stairs, two on the controls and three just walking around directing "traffic" (all two of us).
Watching my Disneyland USA DVD, I got the feeling that nothing is 100% immune at Disneyland. They would be idiots to get rid of some rides, but it still could happen. It would break my heart if Small World went. Can't stand to ride it except once every few years...... but still, it's a mainstay. Also, the Jungle Cruise seems like a good candidate to go because of the size of it. Hope it doesn't, but it's taking up "valuable" junky ride space.
I would think that Pirates, HM, JC, BTMRR, SM, SW, Matterhorn, Autopia, Splash, Mark Twain, carousel, Dumbo, tea cups, FL dark rides (except Toad) and Indy would all be immune. I'm sure there are others, but I'm spacing. I can't even stand to go there when one of these is being refurbished. My visit doesn't feel complete somehow. For ex., JC was closed this last time. The time before: Tea cups. Both times I left feeling like I missed something really important.
Nigel2
01-02-2002, 01:38 AM
Well (it gets tossed arround alot) people think that walt would want to get change alot, while others think he would want alot of attractions to stay, but whatever. I think the 2 fantasyland rides that are closest to the chopping block would be Pinochio and Snow white since they really don't offer anything super special like alice, toad, and Peter Pan do. I think SW would have a good chance at staying since walt was big on international relations. But JC, its sort of iffy there.
coronamouseman
01-02-2002, 07:17 PM
Agree with Nigel2: 'Ol Snow or Pinnochio could go given the right replacements. But with nothing on the horizon to replace them, would think that Disney would keep them unless they had severe maintenance issues.
One last fling of reasons for keeping the Jungle Cruise - (1) ride for all ages (you have to have at least a couple of rides that Grandma can go on with the kids!); (2) convenient moderate capacity ride to take Fastpass waitees from Indy and for parents who are baby-swapping at Indy to take the smaller kids; (3) maintains a link to past Disney tradition (much like the trains or the carousel or Dumbo); (4) what else can you do with a Jungle theme - can't do a jeep ride since Indy already is one, can't do real animals because of space and ASPCA implications, can't do another Tom Sawyer Island-like attraction (like DLP) because real Tom Sawyer Island is only a few hundred feet away
So, that being said, what about this: Drain water and remove tracks from present watercourse - install hanging coaster (similar to IOA's Dueling Dragons) which roughly follows current watercourse path but with loops, cobra rools and corkscrews in appropriate locations - could keep current Jungle Cruise building but now would use top floor to load guests in hanging coaster cars before floor is retracted. Key thematic component - overhead pillars and pylons will be disguised as trees or covered by rock formations - in some places coaster will be in trenches or tunnels to increase claustrophobic effect of rushing past extremely close objects (like maybe an elephant stampede) and coaster could even do a very tight turn where rider's feet almost touch Sweitzer Falls. Coaster will not be observable unless one takes jungle path into core of area from which number of the major loops and rolls can be observed
Oh well, let's just hope they keep the slow boats and corny tour guides .........
Oh well, let's just settle for
disneynut
01-02-2002, 07:36 PM
Had this thread been put up a year ago, my answer to an immune attraction would have been the Country Bears. It seems to me if they could get rid of that attraction, anything is capable of being removed. :rolleyes:
coronamouseman
01-02-2002, 08:06 PM
One interesting thing to note regarding some of the "Dark Rides" at DL and WDW - some time ago there was significant duplication between DL and WDW in terms of the "Dark Rides" at each park:
DL
Toad
Pan
SW
Pin
AWLD
RR
CBs (not really dark ride)
CP (waaay back)
WDW
Toad
Pan
SW
CBs
CP
Now look at things today:
DL
Toad
Pan
SW
Pin
RR
Pooh (to replace CB's)
WDW
Pooh (replaced Toad)
Pan
SW
CBs
Buzz
CP (last rumor had it still running)
So there is some method to the madness in that at least one version of each ride appears to survive somewhere in the Disney empire (wonder if they are "harvesting" replacement parts and shipping them from one park to another?)
Nigel2
01-02-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by coronamouseman
One last fling of reasons for keeping the Jungle Cruise - (1) ride for all ages (you have to have at least a couple of rides that Grandma can go on with the kids!); (2) convenient moderate capacity ride to take Fastpass waitees from Indy and for parents who are baby-swapping at Indy to take the smaller kids; (3) maintains a link to past Disney tradition (much like the trains or the carousel or Dumbo
The only problem was that the subs were about the same capacity (if not higher) than the JC, but odds are JC is a little safer since JC is eaiser to get into than the subs (I am speaking about handicaped people here) and also doesn't have issues with claustrophobia. That and it doesn't reek when a guest has "eaten the chili". But still you never know...
LIMANDL4EVA
01-02-2002, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by stinkerbell
Watching my Disneyland USA DVD, I got the feeling that nothing is 100% immune at Disneyland. They would be idiots to get rid of some rides,
exactly i was thinking the same thing, when watching the DVD, there are SOOOO many rides/attractions that are now gone from Disneyland that AT THE TIME were thought to be immune, but now there are obviously attractions that they cannot get rid of, MATTERHORN, INDY, SPLASH, PIRATES, these are definately CLASSICS and are in concrete for ever, at least we all hope;)
Gemini Cricket
01-02-2002, 11:43 PM
I don't know if there is any merit to this bit of information I received but a CM from the "Festival of Fools" show several years ago told me that he heard the Tea Cups could never be discontinued. He mentioned something about a contract Walt wrote. Did anyone else hear about this? There are several CMs that I get my info from. I know which ones are reliable, I know which ones expand the truth... this info was from one of the good informants...
Anyone?
:confused:
Nigel2
01-03-2002, 12:25 AM
That actually sounds "anit walt" since he always liked change. But odds are teacups aren't near the chopping block since it isn't a high cm # attraction.
coronamouseman
01-03-2002, 04:48 AM
sbell: Removing attractions is one thing but refurbishments are very much a fact of life at Disney's or any other park - best rule of thumb is to check park websites for posted closures and then hope and pray something unforseen doesn't happen before you get there.
Several cases:
(1) Some 15-20 years ago Space Mt. was closed from January through May - I personally remember a friend of mine who didn't check before making his "once in a decade" vacation trip to Orlando and ended up missing that attraction
(2) Test Track was an "on again/off again" attraction for almost two years before it finally opened - TT was advertised in Disney literature for a full year before its announced opening, then was removed after its problems started, added in again after another year and finally removed altogether from ads until it actually had a soft opening (kind of opened with a whimper rather than a bang). I'm sure many a long-planned vacation was somewhat tainted by the attraction not opening on time.
(3) SFMM's Superman ride was delayed for almost 18 months while the engineers worked to deliver the promised 100 mph launch - seems the first version of the ride only made it to the mid-90's on launch and with all the media attention SF decided that anything sub-100 wouldn't do (since all of their published media touted 100 mph)
Theme parks are subject to the same problems that plague any business dependent upon large and complex machinery - sometimes things don't work and have to be shut down. Personally, I find that Disney does better than most parks with their maintennce program because most of the time you go to the park the attractions that are scheduled to be running are doing just that.