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View Full Version : Strange but honest question about Pirates Menorah



Kevin E. Knox
02-21-2005, 07:23 PM
The last time I was at Disneyland, summer '04 I noticed a new and very large menorah in the treasure room in the grotto area of the ride. When did this get placed in there and why? Did the Caribbean have a large Jewish population that I don't know of in the 1800's? I'm not being anti-Semitic just honest in my observation....it seemed rather incongruous w/the ride.
I've ridden the Pirates ride since the '60s as a kid and know this ride inside and out. I've read and heard they (Disney) went PC w/the pirates no longer chasing the women but live stock??? The ending scene has been changed as well, they (the pirates that were drunk) no longer shoot at a keg of gun powder but at protective vests from Spanish guards supply room in a dungeon.
This whole change made no sense and really took away from the backward theme of the ride....my two cents...what are yours? I think Disney powers, not the original folks/creators but the new management caved into some strange pressures that show the lack of thought and real creativity.

If anyone who is of the Jewish faith or anyone else for that matter takes offense to this please read it a second time for clarity and not hubris. I mean this in the most sincere way.

Regards,

Kevin E. Knox

SCUBAbe
02-21-2005, 07:28 PM
I have never noticed it and it would not bother me if i did. It's a ride in an amusement park. It really does not make or break the ride and I could over anaylize any part of the ride if I wanted to.

MrsG
02-21-2005, 07:32 PM
I don't remember it not being there.

Marox3
02-21-2005, 07:38 PM
It was there in January. And, yes, I noticed it last year, can't remember when, because it is so large. It appears they change the wealth around, sometimes only slightly. Keeps you on your toes!

rentayenta
02-21-2005, 07:44 PM
Menorrah

bradk
02-21-2005, 07:50 PM
menorah (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=menorah)

without seeing a picture, i'd be hardpressed to identify it as such. there are many variations i've seen which by definition would not make it a menorah.

it would have to have places for 9 candles/lamps where 8 are even and one is higher than the rest to even be considered such.

rentayenta
02-21-2005, 07:51 PM
menorah (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=menorah)


Both are correct. Minora is not.

Earkid
02-21-2005, 08:04 PM
What's an "R" between friends. :D

rentayenta
02-21-2005, 08:06 PM
What's an "R" between friends. :D

;)

bradk
02-21-2005, 08:11 PM
i need to correct myself. a menorah can have 7 branches as well, just not for (well, you figure out how you want to spell it).

VickiC
02-21-2005, 08:20 PM
Hmmm. There were Spanish Jews, they were a target of the inquisition. Perhaps some fled to the New World and their treasure was stolen by the Pirates? That seems neither far fetched nor "PC" to me.

QueenAlisha
02-21-2005, 08:46 PM
i thought it was jsut a pretty candle holder :/

Flint
02-21-2005, 09:49 PM
just a candlabra, perhaps?

GreenDragon
02-21-2005, 09:53 PM
I've read and heard they (Disney) went PC w/the pirates no longer chasing the women but live stock???

:eek: I think that's worse! Quick, hide the sheep! :eek:

animagusurreal
02-22-2005, 03:17 AM
The ending scene has been changed as well, they (the pirates that were drunk) no longer shoot at a keg of gun powder but at protective vests from


I noticed the vests, but somehow didn't notice the powder keg missing.

And here the the thought had crossed my mind that maybe the keg should "blow up" the way it did in the 1960's grand opening special (complete with dubbed-in screams "from the riders".) I thought it could be a when's-it-going-to-happen-geyser-at-the end-of-Grizzly-River type effect.

slydini
02-22-2005, 05:21 AM
In Curacao (don't know if this is spelled correctly,) Tthere is quite a large jewish area. It has one of the oldest synagouges. So I guess that would not be to far fecthed.

Alex S.
02-22-2005, 06:01 AM
In 1492 (coincidentally, the same year Columbus discovered the Americas) Jews were expelled from Spain and then from Portugal (where many had gone) in 1497.

When expelled from Portugal many went to other European countries but some fled to Brazil, which was a Portguese possession. Also, the Portuguese government removed children from remaining Jewish homes and sent them to Brazil to be raised by Catholics.

In the early 1600s the rise of Holland as a superpower in the New World allowed South American Jews to come out of the closet, but by mid-century Portugal began to reassert itself and Jews were again forced to pretend Catholicism or risk execution.

This lead to Jews scattering from Brazil to nearby colonies under rule of more liberal governments (primarily British and Dutch islands in the Caribbean, though one boat made it as far as what is now New York City in the 1660s).

All of this from History of the Jews of the Caribbean (http://www.sefarad.org/publication/lm/011/jewcar.html).

Shortiemetoo
02-22-2005, 07:54 AM
i thought it was jsut a pretty candle holder :/

Me too Alisha!!

Niwel
02-22-2005, 09:15 AM
I don't take any offense to it -- my family jokes about Chanukah in the carribean....
A menorah (seven branches -- each one representing a day in creation) differs from a chanukiah -- which is eight branches (each representing a day the oil lasted), with a tall one in the center (or the side) for the shamash (the worker candle).
Unless a Jewish Imaginear put it there intentionally, I think on POTC it is really just a candelabra...

AVP
02-22-2005, 10:01 AM
We once thought of creating a MouseAdventure quest where teams would have to ride Pirates and count the menorah(s?). (Is "menorah" its own plural?)

We quickly scrapped the idea when we couldn't agree on what was a menorah and what was just a candelabra.

AVP

Kevin E. Knox
02-24-2005, 02:28 AM
The source of shared information on this site is just fantastic.
Thanks to all for your replies and views. I'm actually leaving for LA in two hours, I live in NYC. It's going to snow this afternoon so I'm happy to have clouds and rain in the west versus snow and freezing temperatures in the east. I'll be riding the Pirates tomorrow and will look and smile as I pass the site w/the menorrah or candlestick and the strange pirate senseless ending. I passed on this information to some colleagues of mine out here, who became rather adamant in their views about the Disneyland Pirates new look. Hope that will calm some nerves and squish some silly views from a middle eastern man who thinks Eisner did it just to slap the faces of Muslim folk. I swear, this whole religious war is so boring and has no future. On to happier things, I'm just happy it (the Pirates of the Carribean) is still operating and has not turned into some silly new ride that isn't even remotely akin to the original concept and dream. This question was an open one not to strike up any religious debate or feelings of anti anything but an honest to goodness questin as to is that new or am I just getting old and my memory is slipping.
The history of the Jewish faith is fantastic and has persevered many a hardships over time. I'm glad we can discuss this in an open forum w/out people having thin skins and assuming it's an attack.

Thanks again to all for their respective input.

Regards,

Kevin

Opus1guy
02-24-2005, 07:59 AM
What about that one skeleton that's at the bar playing with the dreidel?

:)

Disneyphile
02-24-2005, 04:16 PM
We once thought of creating a MouseAdventure quest where teams would have to ride Pirates and count the menorah(s?). You guys are SO mean. :p

<----anxious for the MA Invitational