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ExPeRiMeNt629
02-15-2005, 11:03 PM
Hey fellow CM's from all areas. During the past few weeks have you noticed a "TERMING" trend in your departments like for stupid things like "Not smiling" "Grabing a child from getting hit by moving viehicle" "not clockin in on time" "Clocking in too early for your shift even though your going to change cloths and take care of your things before you start" "Using foul language backstage" "Smoking while Band kids are walking by" Anything basicaly. Have you lost any fellow Cm's that became really good friends in the past month because of this "CLEANING HOUSE" if so respond back, because i feel i'm the only one that has lost alot of good friends that i've made over the time i've been here just cause of 50th cleaning house.

bradk
02-16-2005, 04:04 AM
anything really? those all sound like valid reasons to be reprimanded for to me.

kbanmen
02-16-2005, 06:42 AM
night custidial are losing quite a bit of people..but because of HIGH POINTS..these people should have been gone a while ago, but werent until now

timl33
02-16-2005, 06:48 AM
anything really? those all sound like valid reasons to be reprimanded for to me.

I don't think grabbing a child to prevent injury or clocking in too early are necessarily valid reasons.

bradk
02-16-2005, 06:58 AM
well, potential exaggerations aside, you don't have the right to grab a child under any circumstances. the child is the parent's responsibility. the CM shouldn't let things happen if they can be avoided of course, but there are usually other ways to prevent such an accident other than physically moving a guest.

i can put it more clearly this way. let's say a trolley is about to hit a child. if the trolley hits the child, there's 2 people potentially at fault - the driver and the child. if disney gets sued over it, disney will probably win because the parents have the responsibility over the child and someone did not pay attention to their surroundings. if the child had walked into a wall for example, they couldn't get away with suing the building. just because the trolley moves, it doesn't prove gross negligence on the part of disney. as a guest, you know the trolley exists and it's your responsibility to take necessary precautions to not get hit by it.

conversely, let's say you grab the child, and even though you're well intentioned, you end up dislocating the child's shoulder, causing the very upset parents to have to leave the park to go to the hospital. disney needs to supply the resources to aid the family in every way they can and then hopefully pacify the family enough so that they won't sue, in which case, disney is more liable since an employee caused the damage.

now 99 times out of 100, the parents would be grateful and be happy their little child wasn't killed by a menacing trolley thanks to the CM. it's the 100th time that'll end up costing disney several times more than the CM's salary, because people are just that way.

marktips
02-16-2005, 08:07 AM
Attractions hosts/hostesses are specificly trained in Guest "contact." They are some of the very few CM's who are trained in how to "touch" people.

They have to learn how to do so for safety reasons - loading/unloading, evacs, things of that nature.

To stop a Guest from getting hit by a vehicle, it should of been a block (if possible), not a grab - and the system itself should of been E-stopped.

Disney also makes the distinction that a CM is not to put themself in harm's way for a Guest. So, for example, a child walks/falls onto a vehicles track, the CM is not to enter the ride and retrieve the child, but rather wait until the system is stopped and it is safe to enter.

Shortiemetoo
02-16-2005, 09:07 AM
It is so sad to think in our society someone might sue disney for a child getting a dislocated shoulder when the consequence could have been a child losing the same limb or ??? if run over or hit by a moving ride/vehicle. I know many things like this happen in all facets of life every day (I see awful cases of patients suing nurses/dr's/hospitals etc...but sheesh...please grab my grandchild or child if it means it will protect them from being injured more severely! Hopefully I will be vigilant enough to always have my eyes on my child or grandchild...but accidents do occur...in a blink of an eye sometimes.

Hakuna Makarla
02-16-2005, 09:13 AM
It is so sad to think in our society someone might sue disney for a child getting a dislocated shoulder when the consequence could have been a child losing the same limb or ??? if run over or hit by a moving ride/vehicle. I know many things like this happen in all facets of life every day (I see awful cases of patients suing nurses/dr's/hospitals etc...but sheesh...please grab my grandchild or child if it means it will protect them from being injured more severely! Hopefully I will be vigilant enough to always have my eyes on my child or grandchild...but accidents do occur...in a blink of an eye sometimes.

Amen!!
yes its the parents responsibility but man some times kids dart out. if you CMs ever see a child in from of a trolly or other moving things that could kill grab them!! my god who would want to lose a child when a cm could prevent this

DCAWhites
02-16-2005, 09:56 AM
A cm couldn't get fired for 90% of the things mentioned due to the fact that most cms are unionized. Sure if you clock out early every day it'll eventually catch up to you, but not once or twice.

bradk
02-16-2005, 10:04 AM
it was actually clocking in 'too early' that was specified, but it's really for the same reasons. even if you're anxious to get to work, your shift doesn't start at 2:00 pm so you can clock in at 1:45. I'm sure there'd be no complaints if you decided to change clothes at 1:45 without clocking in, but you're basically making disney pay for an additional 15 minutes you aren't scheduled to work (which of course adds up over time and disney is full aware of your required wardrobe change) and that eventually leads to overtime / benefits issues.

incidentally, i highly doubt doing any of these things once will get you fired. reprimanded, surely, but there'd be too many repercussions if people were haphazardly fired for what could be deemed an innocent mistake.

ChipmunkStar
02-16-2005, 11:41 AM
Umm, no you can clock in an hour early, but no sooner. Either way, you're only paid for your scheduled shift, so it's not like they're paying to punch. Same with clocking out, you have until an hour after your shift to clock out otherwise they think you may have left early and are returning to clock out, thus costing the company money for time you didn't technically work.

Grandbreaker
02-16-2005, 11:43 AM
If your shift starts at 1500-2315 and you clock in at 1400 Disney only pays you starting at 1500. If you clock out at 2345 you are only paid til 2315. But if you forget to clock in or out then you get points.

Crazy4DL
02-16-2005, 02:11 PM
Hey fellow CM's from all areas. During the past few weeks have you noticed a "TERMING" trend in your departments like for stupid things like "Not smiling" "Grabing a child from getting hit by moving viehicle" "not clockin in on time" "Clocking in too early for your shift even though your going to change cloths and take care of your things before you start" "Using foul language backstage" "Smoking while Band kids are walking by" Anything basicaly. Have you lost any fellow Cm's that became really good friends in the past month because of this "CLEANING HOUSE" if so respond back, because i feel i'm the only one that has lost alot of good friends that i've made over the time i've been here just cause of 50th cleaning house.

"Stupid things"????? seems like if you are working at Disneyland, "The Happiest Place on Earth" you would indeed get into some kind of trouble for the things you mention. Most of the offences sound like legitimate reasons to be reprimanded.

mbrady
02-16-2005, 03:47 PM
It is so sad to think in our society someone might sue disney for a child getting a dislocated shoulder when the consequence could have been a child losing the same limb or ??? if run over or hit by a moving ride/vehicle. I know many things like this happen in all facets of life every day (I see awful cases of patients suing nurses/dr's/hospitals etc...but sheesh...please grab my grandchild or child if it means it will protect them from being injured more severely! Hopefully I will be vigilant enough to always have my eyes on my child or grandchild...but accidents do occur...in a blink of an eye sometimes.

Aren't there Good Samaritan laws in place to prevent this sort of lawsuit?

DLRCM
02-16-2005, 03:53 PM
I agree. It seems the things you mentioned are valid reason for termination. Smoking? Using foul language? Come on! This is Disneyland and you got the job. You should remember what kind of place it is you will be working at BEFORE applying.

As an attractions CM, the one that got to me was "grabbing a child from a moving vehicle." I have actually had to to this twice now. I was at a line position and saw a child running towards a moving vehicle inside the station. Luckily, I was close enough to run (seriously, I ran towards him.. But I was only about 10-15 feet away) and grab the back of his jacket before anything else could happen. The CMs at the console positions saw me and hit a station stop to stop the cars from moving. But if I were sued over grabbing a child's jacket (it was instinct... The blocking method wouldn't have worked from the angle I was at and running as well), I would have laughed. They shouldnt terminate for this. It's the CMs discretion to get the child away in the best and fastest possible way. Besides, the children I have had to stop, were both with their parents at the time. Shouldn't the parents be held SOMEWHAT responsible for their children, who happened to be in the vacinity of moving vehicles. (They are only supposed to be stopped in the station area if they need something- lost item, inside child switch, etc.) So they should be more careful and not get mad at us for essentially saving their child from harm... Just my opinion...

danyoung
02-16-2005, 03:59 PM
I just wanna say, even though I'm not a cast member, that even if I WAS a cast member, I'd grab a kid who was about to get hit by a trolley. Let the lawyers sort it out, but I'm sure gonna sleep easy.

aundyflys
02-16-2005, 05:48 PM
If the CMs feel they were truely wrongfully terminated then they can file a complaint with the union.

Austrinken
02-16-2005, 05:59 PM
I am an Attractions CM. I was once disciplined heavily for performing CPR on an elderly guest who was suffering a heart attack. It was an elderly gentleman who was not breathing and whose heart was not beating when he hit the ground. I performed CPR on him until the paramedics arrived.

Once the company lawyers heard about this situation, they hit the roof. They wanted me fired immediately because of the potential lawsuit my actions could have caused. Since I was not employed by the company as an EMT, nor had I submitted proof to them that I was certified in CPR (which I was), their stance was that if the man had died after I performed CPR on him, his family could have sued the park for an astronomical amount of money.

I received a five-day unpaid suspension, written reprimand, and demotion (I lost my trainer status). For the record, the man lived.

My point from all this is that something like pulling a kid out of the way of a vehicle (or something else that would seem like doing the right thing) can indeed be grounds for discipline.

Note: I will not discuss the above incident in any more detail than I have already given for fear of retribution. Thanks.

SCUBAbe
02-16-2005, 06:11 PM
I don't think grabbing a child to prevent injury or clocking in too early are necessarily valid reasons.

yeah and who cares if they cuss backstage??...or smoke backstage??

ChipmunkStar
02-16-2005, 06:14 PM
yeah and who cares if they cuss backstage??...or smoke backstage??


Teehee... I totally took that to mean "Who cares if the children cuss or smoke backstage?" That made it interesting :rolleyes:

SCUBAbe
02-16-2005, 06:16 PM
Teehee... I totally took that to mean "Who cares if the children cuss or smoke backstage?" That made it interesting :rolleyes:
yeah,..that to..let the kids have some fun...it is DL after all..:)

DLRCM
02-16-2005, 07:16 PM
My point from all this is that something like pulling a kid out of the way of a vehicle (or something else that would seem like doing the right thing) can indeed be grounds for discipline.


If this were the case, then shouldn't they define more clearly what we can and cannot do when a situation like this arises? We are not just going to let kids run up to a moving vehicle and let them get cruched. Does anyone know what the exact rule is? Because after seeing this thread, I'm not quite sure what to do in situations like this one now... (Regardless of lawsuits, I will always go on instinct. I'm not going to say "Well, I should pull the kid away... but maybe not because if I do then I might get sued... so I wont." I will do whatever I feel is right at the moment of truth.)

bradk
02-16-2005, 07:22 PM
as far as swearing goes, even if it's backstage, the thing to remember is you're still an employee and at your job.

i work in an office. i'll admit i swear from time to time given some of the crap that goes on around me, but you could bet that if i yelled it down the hallway or marched in to HR and told them to f off, i'd pay for it in some fashion. it's just not acceptable behavior in a professional environment, even if it is disneyland. one of the things i hate about working in the real world is you can't get away with half the crap they get away with in workplaces on tv shows, but that's life.

as far as the guest intervention goes, the first thing you have to accept is you're working for a company and they set the rules. if you're in the union, you have SOME recourse, but all in all, it's probably going to be very futile, and if you're a casual temporary, you're basically hired at will, so you just need to kiss it goodbye.

you won't get sued in all likelihood, you aren't a goldmine. disney is the promised land for most pi lawyers. disney does not like lawsuits. not because they can't win, but because they are expensive and it sets up bad precedents. disney only settles out of court when they know they're potentially at fault and probably going to lose at trial and they try not to do it that often because they don't want to encourage people to file frivolous claims just to hope to have disney settle either.

so the whole game is just to avoid having someone file suit to begin with. disney after all is a corporation, not a human being.

SCUBAbe
02-16-2005, 07:37 PM
i work in an office. i'll admit i swear from time to time given some of the crap that goes on around me, but you could bet that if i yelled it down the hallway or marched in to HR and told them to f off, i'd pay for it in some fashion. it's just not acceptable behavior in a professional environment, even if it is disneyland. one of the things i hate about working in the real world is you can't get away with half the crap they get away with in workplaces on tv shows, but that's life.


yeah, I work in an office too and all I have to say is thank god my phone has a mute button, because when stupid people call me I get VERY irratated. So, do my co-workers...LOL...now we don't yell curse words. It's all softly said under our breaths. My manager just says...use the mute button and do what you have to do to get through the call as long as you sound professional while speaking to the customer. Everyone has to blow off steam. I would be a horrible DL employee. I just do not have the patience to deal with idiotic people all day. ...and judging by how I see people behaving at DL there are alot of idiotic people visiting there. The CM's often impress me. I cannot believe how much pateince they have. :)

danyoung
02-17-2005, 06:40 AM
I was once disciplined heavily for performing CPR on an elderly guest who was suffering a heart attack.

So even though you said that that was all you were going to say on the subject, I have a very important question for you. Even with the discipline, do you feel you did the right thing?



I do!