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Lost Boy
12-19-2001, 08:29 PM
Go to:

www.mouseinfo.com

and read the great article on technology at these two Parks. I happen to like both parks and this article really says a lot about the differences between the two. And guess what? DCA wins in the technologies used as apposed to IOA. Read it and see why.

I found it very interesting.

coronamouseman
12-19-2001, 09:21 PM
LB:

While the "academic" question of which park delivers the newest technology may be interesting to some, I believe the bigger issue is which park delivers a better entertainment experience to the guest - in this regard, my opinion is that IOA does so much better.

Take Spiderman, for instance - when you are being thrown from one confrontation or experience to another in the ride vehicle, are you really thinking "why did the vehicle start to spin?" as opposed to holding on for dear life? Spiderman, in my opinion, provides the guest with a very intense and enjoyable adventure experience at a level at least as good as the Indiana Jones ride.
Do I care which ride uses the coolest technology? No - you just want to be entertained (as Maximus kept shouting in Gladiator: Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?)

The Hulk coaster is another example - so what if the technology employed is not as sophisticated as that on California Screamin'?
The point is that the Hulk's design makes you feel like you are totally out of control (in the manner of the cartoon Hulk) with a kind of gradual letdown at the end - that IOA could convey this kind of theme in a coaster was brilliant. California Screamin' - yes, the technology used is very nice but the bottom line is that it is very much your standard coaster experience (but with sound) in a themed area that further limits the ride to being a simulator of a wooden coaster. There is a kind of perversity with CS because it is part of a themed area meant to provide experiences from the past but the ride itself has the acceleration and loop of a newer model coaster - I find that inconsistency difficult to resolve and in particular, think that a good woodie coaster would have been much truer to the theming and would have been just as good.
However, since Knott's down the street already had a great woodie, Disney had to do something different.

Lastly, I understand Soarin' is exciting new technology, but I found the ride extremely unsatisfactory when you have feet from above dangling in your view space - the technology is great but needs to be refined so that you can at least feel that you are actually airborne and not just riding under somebody else's feet on a big "tree".

So, while I appreciate the explanations Marcie provided of the technolgies, I believe there was a point being missed about what features guests like and dislike about the attractions involved.

Iceman
12-20-2001, 03:11 PM
I've only been a member here for a few days, but I think I've already made my opinions on Islands of Adventure well-known. Hulk was actually my favorite ride there, mainly because of that surprise launch. Otherwise, it's just another coaster with a lot of loops. I didn't feel "out of control" and the so-called theme of transforming like David Banner was so weak as to be nonexistent.

Maybe it's because Spiderman was hyped up so much, but I was extremely disappointed in it. I can see how hard they tried to create a seamless environment, blending different technologies into a single experience. But that's just the problem--I could SEE how hard they tried. It WASN'T seamless, it was disjointed and forced.

I will also say that was a bit letdown by Soarin' Over California (another super-hyped attraction). I found the feet over my head to be a HUGE distraction; like coronamouseman said, it totally broke up the experience. It's far superior to any other "ride simulator" out there, but is not perfect.

One of Disney's biggest strengths (that other companies usually don't do well at all) is in integrating state-of-the-art technologies into their movies and theme parks so that you don't know they're there. Think of the multi-plane camera--it just made animated features so much richer, but you didn't sit there and say, "There's a scene with that new-fangled camera." Or computer animation in Toy Story and A Bug's Life--am I the only one who forgets a few minutes into the movie that the characters aren't "real"? Technology is not the end, it is a mean toward achieving storytelling excellence. (Sorry for the long rant...)

Doodle Duck
12-20-2001, 06:15 PM
Look I'm not out for a flame job or trouble...but...BUT...all this tech talk about a Ski Lift chair that lifts you up in front of a movie screen and bounces you SLIGHTLY has really lost me.
Soarin' is ok...it's nice...pleasant even... but tech? Sorry...lost me.

On the other hand...a Moving Vehicle experiencing 3-D projection in an already dimensional dark ride environment and throwing in motion base...SEEMS to be more in the tech arena.
I'm probably wrong here...but Soarin' while really a nice ride has to be the most over hyped non issue in my theme park experience. What's the big deal? Nevermind...don't waste your typing on me...hopelessly not interested in the wonders of DCA these days....nor Marcie Pressler's fluffing of the place.

twistedmickey
12-20-2001, 06:27 PM
I read the article and want to remind all readers that I believe the person who wrote the article works for the Disney company. That said, I would have to say that neither park overflows with new technology but if I had to pick I would say that IOA does rise above DCA.

The use of 3-D on a moving vehicle is a break through on thrill rides. Is using Imax on a skilift a break-through??? I dont see it. And the car spinning happens because Dr. Octopus tries to hit the Scoop and the car spins to move out of the way.

If you want to talk about technology lets talk about Superstar Limo.....If I was Eisner I would of stepped of that ride and fired the person who was in charge of creating this.

My vote: IOA

Doodle Duck
12-20-2001, 07:06 PM
I don't know Twisted...Cindy Crawford looked like one high tech hooker to me...oh wait...sorry...that's high priced...scuse.

80S ERA
12-21-2001, 07:02 AM
Has anyone seen "Impressions De France" in the world showcase, Epcot Center? I was wondering if it incorporated similar film technology as Soarin.

Iceman
12-21-2001, 07:15 AM
No! It's just a standard movie.

disneyhead
12-21-2001, 09:42 AM
I feel that IOA is so vastly superior to DCA that comparing the two crosses into the absurd.
Marcie likes to say how biased Al is when talking about DCA, but I found her assasment of IOA to be laughable. Her comparison of Gadget's and The Hulk is so off based. The only similarity is the fact that it uses rubber tires to move the coaster train. The control system that controls these tires are totally different. The Hulk uses it's own generator plant and computer system to syncronise the tires to give an even energy output to make sure all the tires apply the same amount of torque on each side of the coaster. Gadget's is not a launched coaster, the technology Gadget uses is gravity, which to the best of my knowledge WDI did NOT invent.
Comparing Soaring' with Spiderman is also borderline insane. The 3-D environment, the multiscreen projection system, the rolling simulator ride vehicle, and a cohesive storyline are all iceing on the cake to the fact that the 3-D film was directed by a real film professional, (Steven Spielberg), at least he has heard of transition effects. Soaring doesn't even use dissolves between scene, those hard cuts are the worst film making I've seen since 102 Dalmations.
IOA themeing is far more detailed than is DCA's. I loved Marcie's dig on actually themeing the queues. Saying it is a waste because the park isn't crowded enough for people to notice. She must love the Screaming's queue. No waste on themeing there.
Marcie is so blinded by love that she can't see the truth.
Travel Channel listed IOA as the #1 "Thrill Park" in the country. I don't think DCA is much a threat to it's crown. I really don't think DCA is #1 at anything, except at drawing complaints.

80S ERA
12-21-2001, 10:07 AM
I was going to start a thread titled "Compare TDS to DCA"...

then I relized, Isn't that like comparing a Lambourgini to a Geo Metro? :D

Anyway, I'm actually glad to see another company breathing down Disney's necks. A few years ago, a comparison of a Disney park with another would be unheard of. Hopefully the emergence of IOA will push Disney's bar back to what it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

disneyhead
12-21-2001, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by 80S ERA


then I relized, Isn't that like comparing a Lambourgini to a Geo Metro? :D

But if you are Marcie the comparison would look like this:
"The two are basically identical. If you strip away all the wasted themeing, the technology is identical. Both use a gasoline combustion engine, rubber tires, entry doors, and windows. Only Lamborghini wasted all that money on exterior themeing, because it inspires irresponsible speeding, it won't be around long enough for anyone to get to enjoy it. But the Geo Metro uses current computer technology to maximize fuel economy. It is obvious that the Geo is far superior to the Lamborghini. Anyone who would argue is just Geo bashing and have an agenda to see Geo go under.

80S ERA
12-21-2001, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by disneyhead


But if you are Marcie the comparison would look like this:
"The two are basically identical. If you strip away all the wasted themeing, the technology is identical. Both use a gasoline combustion engine, rubber tires, entry doors, and windows. Only Lamborghini wasted all that money on exterior themeing, because it inspires irresponsible speeding, it won't be around long enough for anyone to get to enjoy it. But the Geo Metro uses current computer technology to maximize fuel economy. It is obvious that the Geo is far superior to the Lamborghini. Anyone who would argue is just Geo bashing and have an agenda to see Geo go under.
Who am I to argue? The Geo Metro it is!

Kind of reminds me of that Cannon Digital Copier commerical:
'Digital copiers are nice, but only carbon copiers DO THIS..."
-Well take the carbon..."
:D

Doodle Duck
12-21-2001, 01:24 PM
Disneyhead.....BINGO!

Iceman
12-21-2001, 06:43 PM
If you guys love Universal so much and hate Disney so much, then please by all means JUST GO AWAY.

EandCDad
12-21-2001, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Iceman
If you guys love Universal so much and hate Disney so much, then please by all means JUST GO AWAY.

The thing that is great about this board (in comparison to one I can think of) is that you get regular contributors who have differing opinions on issues. This board is not filled with only DCA haters or only Disney spinmeister-apologists, it has a balance of people with differing opinions on a wide range of subjects, including DCA. That's one of the things that makes this board interesting to myself and others and why we like posters like Doodle Duck, Lost Boy, 80's Era, and the others who have posted to this thread. Viva la difference, if some want to march in lock-step with the Disney spin machine, they should be the one's to look elsewhere.

Lost Boy
12-21-2001, 08:26 PM
Well since I stated all this...

What I wanted to see was if people agreed with the PRINCIPLE that IOA is a better park that some other Parks, including Universal Flordia/Hollywood. The theming of this Park is incredible. Now so is the theming at Disneyland, the Magic Kingdom, Animal Kingdom, MGM and to some extent EPCOT, but not at DCA. At DCA there is a lot of "Eye Candy" just like IOA. But, and this is a big but (no pun intended), there is very little substance behind the eye candy at DCA while IOA has more substance than I have seen, even at some of the major Disney Theme Park. The rides may not be "cutting edge" (except for Spiderman which I rode twice in a row thanks to a special card I got for all the trouble I went thru at the Main Gate over a prepaid admission ticket). I loved the ride and did not once feel disjointed or confused. I followed the story thru the queue line, into the boarding area and thru the ride itself. The computerized 3-D imagery was supurb, not a singel "ghost/double" image anywhere, and the movement of the vehicle (not to mention heat, cold and water/fog effect) where perfectly timed to the images. The coasters where wonderful. The Poididen show had my jaw on the floor at that final effect. In fact the whole show puts anything DCA has to shame.
I see we have a diverse group of people on this board and that is a good thing. Differing opinions are what makes this old world go round and round.
I love Disneyland. I love all WDW Parks. I love-love IOA. I like DCA and Universal. Magic Mountain Parks suck. I just can't take all the "Thrill" rides like I used to, and there is very little theming and the are dirty and filled with gang members most of the time. I alway felt afraid when I went to Magic Moutain even with a friend. And I would never go alone, but I do go to Disneyland, WDW, DCA, and IOA alone.
Anyway, it's all in your point of view. Please let people speak there minds as long as it stays on the track of the posted threads and don't ask people to leave just because you don't agree with them. I don't think DCA is bad, I have fun every time I go. Not as much as at Disneyland, but fun never-the-less.:D

Nigel2
12-21-2001, 10:46 PM
Can anyone tell me if IOA has returned a profit yet? See when you go all out building a park like IOA it costs a lot so it also means you have a longer way to go before you return a profit. TDS got very lucky when Japan's economy went down and basically all loans were interest free, so they had less debt in the longrun meaning they were also able to get in the black much faster.

Kevin Yee
12-22-2001, 12:01 AM
I don't know how many of you have traveled around the country and internationally to theme parks, but I have, and in my opinion, IOA is by far and away the best non-Disney theme park anywhere.

That's not to say IOA doesn't have its problems, but the theming is so COMPLETE and so ... urgent that it really feels like a Disney park. Honestly, it feels more Disney than Knott's, Tivoli, Phantasialand (Cologne, Germany), Busch Tampa, or even DCA does. Heck, it's better than AK arguably.

Spiderman is a superb ride. Marcie is a Disney hack and should be treated as such. Always know your sources and treat them accordingly - those of us who call spades "spades" deserve more credit than one-sided apologists :)

(OK, leaving soapbox for now...)

EandCDad
12-22-2001, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Kevin Yee


Spiderman is a superb ride. Marcie is a Disney hack and should be treated as such. Always know your sources and treat them accordingly - those of us who call spades "spades" deserve more credit than one-sided apologists :)

(OK, leaving soapbox for now...)

You go brother. I don't want to turn this into a Marcie vs. Al thread but I think overall this site (including columnists and the board) will gives a full range of opinions and discussions about both the pro and the con of Disney and other sites. That's what I like about it, the spirited discussion. Some other columnists give you such a Disney corporate spin your head almost flies off.

coronamouseman
12-22-2001, 10:13 AM
Iceman: I would venture to say that probably none of us posting to this site hate Disney and love Universal - I believe I can safely speak for many of the people posting to this site by saying that we simply love amusement/theme parks.

Now, certainly Disney and Universal are leaders in the theme park "industry" so it is only natural for beings possessing higher-level cognitive processes (people) to make comparisions between similar types of objects (theme parks in this case).

So, as many others have already pointed out in this thread, find joy in the discussions resulting from the ideas expressed and shared by so many others and revel in the fact that this type of forum exists and can facilitate such interchanges.

Iceman
01-06-2002, 09:20 PM
Good points all--I was apparently more of a grouch than I thought when I wrote that last post. And to think that I am usually the one reminding others to be open-minded... "Paging Mr. Kettle! You have a call from Mr. Pot!"

Anyway, I too love amusement parks and the entertainment industry in general. If Disney didn't exist, I would probably be gushing about IOA. And I am admittedly full of a little too much pixie dust to be completely objective.

So please accept my apologies for flying off the handle, and by all means let's keep the diverse viewpoints and opinions flowing.

Nigel2
01-07-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Iceman

Anyway, I too love amusement parks and the entertainment industry in general. If Disney didn't exist, I would probably be gushing about IOA. And I am admittedly full of a little too much pixie dust to be completely objective.


Ummm odds are if Disney(land) didn't exist there would probably be no IOA, or USH/Orlando... Also he is creditied as combining food an entertainment, interesting.

Morrigoon
01-07-2002, 10:34 PM
Posting negative opinions about certain aspects of Disney does not make us Disney haters. If we hated Disney we wouldn't spend all of our free time on these boards.
(I know you retracted, but there are others out there who've said similar things, so I just wanted to air that opinion of mine)

coronamouseman
01-08-2002, 06:38 PM
Iceman: Well spoken - I look forward to your further postings!

At least the folks on this site are a little more forgiving than others, probably because everyone at one time or another has jumped a little too far from the adrenaline rush created by an issue they stoutly believe in - but that's the real fun, isn't it?

At least we don't live in Darth Vader's Empire - remember that great scene from "Empire Strikes Back"?

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa!"